Does Materialistic Modern Science Have Limitations?

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I noticed that Neptune, but I doubt that modern astrologers would look at this chart and guess anything of the nature which the supposed traditional astrologer came up with.



I'm wondering why petosiris thinks that the kind of tests he wants to run to validate astrology would do anything to prove astrology scientifically - couldn't the skeptics say that the astrologer is just explaining the lives of people after the fact and that this "hindsight astrology" doesn't prove anything but the creative imagination of "astrologers"? I'd be interested to hear how he'd get around that accusation.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I noticed that Neptune, but I doubt that modern astrologers would look at this chart and guess anything of the nature which the supposed traditional astrologer came up with.



I'm wondering why petosiris thinks that the kind of tests he wants to run to validate astrology would do anything to prove astrology scientifically - couldn't the skeptics say that the astrologer is just explaining the lives of people after the fact and that this "hindsight astrology" doesn't prove anything but the creative imagination of "astrologers"? I'd be interested to hear how he'd get around that accusation.

I mentioned the hypocrisy of Materialistic Science for demanding certainty from Astrology, when it has its own uncertainties. What I was referring to, is the unmitigated contempt Materialistic scientists have for Astrology. Instead of considering Astrology as a possible source of real knowledge (given the huge number of people worldwide, who believe it is), they sneer at it as a primitive superstition, that should be consigned to the dustbin of History. And their excuse is, that lack of certainty in test results.
As an Astrologer, all I ask of Materialistic Science is a neutral, jury's not in yet, stance--in place of the unjustified, entirely hostile verdict that appears to be the norm. I think that's the best that can be achieved, in light of the current state of the limitations of Modern Materialistic Science, itself.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I should expect to be able to identify "wicked intent" in a Chart. I think Modern Astrologers, including myself, are loath to look at the "Dark Side". I could get into it, but I really don't want to go there. Btw, would you say a night-Chart would be more inclined toward keeping personal information secret than a day-Chart, based solely on the Sun being below the horizon?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I've actually always been interested in genuine dialogue between hard-core scientists (not disciples of scienticism) and competent astrologers, then hashing out of the differing viewpoints might actually lead to something useful - as opposed to bashing your head against a brick wall. That's why I stopped taking part in astrological "debates" that were hinged on the supremacy of modern vs. traditional. All exoteric knowledge is limited by the paramaters that it demarcates as its field of influence.

I do notice that tendency to shy away from the dark by a lot of modern astrologers. The whole cotton candy insult didn't come out of nowhere. Why wouldn't you want to get into it?

Just by personal experience, I don't think sect has anything to do with the tendency to withhold personal information. My own chart for instance. Sun above the horizon but Saturn in the 3rd and Mercury in the 12th and combust (hidden). I rarely volunteer information about myself and it tends to result in a lot of confused/incorrect assumptions about my character.

With the persons I've been able to get their personal details from, I don't see any strong tendency for cageyness solely by the position of the sun.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Still disturbed by what I could have seen using my version of Astrology. I wouldn't have have steered Gacy toward the care of children--I consider that to be the nature of the Sign, Cancer. Pisces actually has more affinity with animals, and the Sagittarian Ascendant would encourage that. I've read that most serial killers start with small animals. If Gacy was ever caught abusing animals, that would have been a non-Astrological indicator of his derangement which would have direct implications for his Chart--a definite red flag.
 

david starling

Well-known member
What would you steer him toward, using your system?

Given the lack of empathy due to the eclipse and the Neptune/Moon Opposition; and, Pluto as Facilitator in H8, I might have suggested a career in the mortuary field. I'll be more attentive to the "lack of empathy" factor due to Moon afflictions. I don't recall seeing a Moon so badly afflicted.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I've been testing using the Charts of famous people, with known habits and accomplishments, as well as failures. Serial killers are in a category of their own. Should we include all of the Presidents who have signed off on mass killings in "justified" wars?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Given the lack of empathy due to the eclipse and the Neptune/Moon Opposition; and, Pluto as Facilitator in H8, I might have suggested a career in the mortuary field. I'll be more attentive to the "lack of empathy" factor due to Moon afflictions. I don't recall seeing a Moon so badly afflicted.

Wow... now that you mention it, there is a lot of "finality" just in that eclipse placement alone - It occurs in the final sign, and it is located at the bottom of the chart, a place characterized by death, burial and the "end of matters". The extinguishing of the Moon through thr eclipse in this final sign is also pretty powerful symbology in leiu of what he did in his life.

Here is the chart for anyone who is following along.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gacy,_John_Wayne
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I've been testing using the Charts of famous people, with known habits and accomplishments, as well as failures. Serial killers are in a category of their own. Should we include all of the Presidents who have signed off on mass killings in "justified" wars?

The motives are different so I don't think putting them together would be useful.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Do serial killers the likes of Gacy, Ramirez, Bundy, Chikatilo, Fish etc care about the moral high ground? They seem to revel in the perversity of their killing techniques, among other things.

Right. That's in its own category. But there ARE those who claim moral justification for their killing. Terminology like "for the greater good", "in defense of the Motherland (or Fatherland), "in the cause of Freedom", usually means claiming that God is on their side. There's also the more personal type of justification involving "putting people out of their misery", such as an "Angel of Death" in a nursing home.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
It just so happened that I was looking at Gacy's chart the other day and following some discussions on it. The seed was already there which JA conveniently watered.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Well, presumably a Materialistic-scientist would demand statistical proof that all sadistic serial killers have afflicted Moons. For some reason, I don't really care what Materialistic Science says about Astrology. I have my own Astrological description of Materialistic Science, but it requires the use of the Age Tuning Fork, otherwise labeled "Gaia's Trident" in the Tropical setting. End result: "This too [Materialistic Science] shall pass." But Astrology will continue on.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I've been looking at Tesla's versus Edison's Charts. No firm conclusions yet, but looks promising. Also, the Chart of another famous inventor interested in electricity, Benjamin Franklin. I actually got the idea for the depiction of an Astrological "tuning fork" as a means for describing Earth's "Resonance Field" as projected into the Ecliptic, from Tesla's purely materialistic version of the Earth as an electromagnetic "tuning fork". Interesting to me that Pluto's pitchfork was like unto the tuning fork image--unlike those of his two brothers, Pluto's lacked the center tine. Sea-ruler Neptune held the Trident of Earthly Authority as the fisherman's trident, and Sky-ruler Zeus/Jupiter held it as a three-pronged lightening bolt.
 
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