Black Moon Lilith and suicide correlation.

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fifteen

Well-known member
Hello everyone,

It has been a few years since I visited.

If you allow me, I would like to share a personal insight into Black Moon Lilith and it's correlation with suicide. I want to share this, because it may help in supporting those who are depressed. In any event, there seems a personal correlation between death and lilith.

I was in a similar situation twice in the last five years. The last time is failrly recent. In march 2016, I felt so depressed that I decided to end my life. At the last moment, I came to my senses and did not continue. I seeked professional medical help (which you should!) and support, and now I am pretty fine. :joyful:

In the mean time, astrology was put on the backburner for obvious reasons. But one day it dawned upon me. Why was I feeling suicidal? And so I started my astrology software, and looked for a cause. I traced back the two days, which I wrote down in my diary, and ran my natal chart beneath it.

I was pretty amazed by the result.

Here's what I got:

Trine Lilith -> Lilith 120 degrees, 11.
Square Lilith -> Node 90 degrees, 7.

In both events, Lilith was Squaring my Node.

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Coincidence? No not really...

1st suicide attempt, 2013: Square Lilith -> Node:

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Second suicide attempt: Trine Lilith -> Lilith, Square Lilith -> Node


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Would love to hear your opinions!
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
fifteen said:
.

If you allow me, I would like to share a personal insight into Black Moon Lilith and it's correlation with suicide. I want to share this, because it may help in supporting those who are depressed. In any event, there seems a personal correlation between death and lilith.

I was in a similar situation twice in the last five years. The last time is failrly recent. In march 2016, I felt so depressed that I decided to end my life. At the last moment, I came to my senses and did not continue. I seeked professional medical help (which you should!) and support, and now I am pretty fine. :joyful:
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Hi,
I just saw this topic when looking up something else in this section.

I've been studying the effect of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) since 1999. Although there have been many instances when it has correlated strongly with periods of death as per 'giving up the ghost', OR bringing up and allowing thoughts and feelings shown to be unreal to die a natural death, I cannot say that I have seen any direct relationship with suicide(attempts).
However, Chiron does seem to have a strong correlation to self-harming and/or suicide because it is so strongly associated with the inner rather than physical pain suffered from/as a result of external sources and forces.

With a birth date during November 1977, as shown on a chart given, natal Chiron would have been retrograding between 3-1* Taurus.
MEAN Black Moon Lilith is between 21-24*Gemini.
Natal Neptune is on 14-15*Sagittarius.
Natal Saturn is either at end Leo or begin Virgo. Saturn trine Chiron retrograde.

According to date and time of birth there could be a Neptune-MEAN Black Moon Lilith opposition. There is a strong association betwen the two. Black Moon Lilith is not a physical object, yet a strong inner feeling sense. MEAN BML signifies the inner created fantasies that may/may not be based upon truth; Neptune is a physical planet. It shows the reality(yes, the reality!:wink:) of those fantasies when shown to be creatively possible or mere illusions from which the individual prefers to escape. Neptune-BML can create a very strong 'inner world reality. Chiron in Taurus in retrograde motion could suggest the pain of perceiving fact as it is shown to physically be.

In March this year, transiting Saturn conjoined natal Neptune on 14-15
Sagittarius. Saturn is stronlgy associated with suppression and depression.
At the same time transiting Chiron was on 20/21*Pisces. Square MEAN BML?
MEAN BML was transiting between 21-24* Libra trine its natal position.

Transit MEAN BML has now entered Scorpio where it is opposing natal Chiron and in sextile to natal Saturn..
Coming to my senses' is a good phrase to use with Black Moon Lilith in its most positive sense. In Gemini 'it's all in the mind' anyway.:smile:
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david starling

Well-known member
Frisiangal, I use the term "Enhancement" for measured points like BML. Since it's a function of the elliptical shape of the MOON'S orbital-path, it's about emotional enhancement, as are the Lunar Nodes. I also consider the Moon, the Nodes, and BML to be working together in the Chart as Lunar indicators. As the physical member of this trio, the Moon itself communicates with the Sun and Planets, whereas the other two intensify the emotions of the Signs and Houses in which they're located. They also increase the emotional effect of the Rulers of those Signs and Houses in the Chart. A very extreme case would be Moon in:cancer:in H4 with both NN and BML conjunct. The real question is, what SORTS of emotions? They can run the gamut, from exhilaration to despair. Haven't had the time to do anything like the appropriate amount of research on this, which I've self-labeled the "Hecate-effect" (Hecate being the tri-fold Lunar goddess). Glad you've been doing some work on it! I definitely agree with fifteen that BML should be considered relative to the Nodes.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
david starling said:
Frisiangal, I use the term "Enhancement" for measured points like BML. Since it's a function of the elliptical shape of the MOON'S orbital-path, it's about emotional enhancement, as are the Lunar Nodes. I also consider the Moon, the Nodes, and BML to be working together in the Chart as Lunar indicators. As the physical member of this trio, the Moon itself communicates with the Sun and Planets, whereas the other two intensify the emotions of the Signs and Houses in which they're located. They also increase the emotional effect of the Rulers of those Signs and Houses in the Chart. A very extreme case would be Moon in:cancer:in H4 with both NN and BML conjunct. The real question is, what SORTS of emotions? They can run the gamut, from exhilaration to despair. Haven't had the time to do anything like the appropriate amount of research on this, which I've self-labeled the "Hecate-effect" (Hecate being the tri-fold Lunar goddess). Glad you've been doing some work on it! I definitely agree with fifteen that BML should be considered relative to the Nodes.
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???:whistling:
Day in, day out for almost 17 years, following total solar eclipse exact within .3mins. conjunct my 12th house Jupiter. Tr. Pluto conjunct tr.MEAN Black Moon Lilith were in 4th house opposing and opening natal Uranus square MEAN BML-Chiron-Ascendant. The correlation with further events was and continues to be rather amazing, as if 'to prove' it wasn't just my active imagination working overtime.:biggrin:.

I believe that those who study/research the Black Moon Liliths do so, and gain their own insights of their effect through the natal position in their charts. Mine are actively influenced through realistically logical Virgo. How can one 'prove' that which is an inwardly actively creative sense in the forming of images, yet does not externally physically exist in its own right??? Both MEAN and TRUE aspect natal Moon. Yet it is only TRUE BML that forms the semi-square to NN in Cancer, now influenced again by transit Jupiter.

I would not say myself that the BML's refer to 'emotional enhancement'. It has been a personal observation over many years study of people and their charts that MEAN BML can show more of an inclination to disconnect from expression of action/deed/thought/feeling (and people) according to its sign temperamental element. Even the soft aspects can have their weaknesses towards manifestation. The positions are, after all, in line with the apogee of Moon.....where its reactive feeling content is furthest from physical manifestation (Earth). A reason that MEAN BML has been observed to have more than an average connection with health issues...
those parts within one's self that do not outwardly manifest and therefore inwardly do via the physical body. This can be observed in the Gemini positions of the chart given. Does Gemini act 'emotionally'??? Could MEAN BML in such a position therefore do so?

Just my 2 cents worth.:smile:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Clearly, I hadn't given it enough thought--the APOGEE point would desensitize rather than intensify (unlike the Nodes). I wasn't interested in BML until I realized recently that the Age-indicator I'm using Tropically is located using the same idea--the center-line of an elliptical orbit. (EARTH'S orbit, at the Point of PERIHELION.)
What about fifteen's contention that BML's position relative to NN is of extreme importance? Have you noticed anything regarding regarding those Transits? Thanks!
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
david starling said:
What about fifteen's contention that BML's position relative to NN is of extreme importance? Have you noticed anything regarding regarding those Transits? Thanks!
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I do not study or work with calculated point to point astrology. It isn't something that my (too:rolleyes:)strong Earth side can easily grasp as mode of employment as is at least the possibility with point to planet, planet to planet astrology.

I haven't consciously considered the astronomicalrelationship of the BML's and that of the nodal axis that can act as a defining mechanism of their joint astrological collaboration. Which nodal axis should one use? The MEAN or the TRUE, the latter of which undergoes direct and retrograde motion....sometimes for months on the same degree!! What does that mean in itself that allows a plausible rather than theoretical definition?
My reason is most probably because I have been more interested in how the astro. symbolism is effective in one's life, rather than as a symbolic pathway from there to here and leading to somewhere.:biggrin:

I do think of the MEAN BML position as 'the missing link'; its trait(s) trying to find an accepted place within the individual that allows it to integrate and belong so as to provide a feeling of completeness. Too often one's own self-denial of its qualities can make it a long process.

At this moment in time, transiting NN is conjunct my natal 1st houseTRUE BML, with transit Pluto trining from the 5th house. Life is creeping on; some situations have been unchangeable. For the first time ever my thoughts turn to 'learning from experience AND doing it/feeling differently next time' ,whilst I have never been a reincarnationalist!

Does point to point work after all????:smile:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
For the Age-indicator centered on Earth's Perihelion, the Mean and True positions can vary in CENTURIES! Studying history, the Mean-setting is when the shared Age-changeover occurs. The earliest True-setting is when the changeover becomes accessible for those who welcome it personally. We've got the 1st True-setting reaching Tropical Aquarius in 2033, according to my calculations, with the shared Age beginning in 2149. I'm sensing that one's Natal BML May somehow be involved in whether one is attracted to, uninterested in, or repelled by the new Age; both are a product of the Earth-Moon "dance". How far back do the BML tables go?
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
david starling said:
For the Age-indicator centered on Earth's Perihelion, the Mean and True positions can vary in CENTURIES! Studying history, the Mean-setting is when the shared Age-changeover occurs. The earliest True-setting is when the changeover becomes accessible for those who welcome it personally. We've got the 1st True-setting reaching Tropical Aquarius in 2033, according to my calculations, with the shared Age beginning in 2149. I'm sensing that one's Natal BML May somehow be involved in whether one is attracted to, uninterested in, or repelled by the new Age; both are a product of the Earth-Moon "dance".
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Those are, amongst others, keywords I actually use when attempting to describe its meaning.

How far back do the BML tables go?
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Astro. com provides a 6000 year ephemeris that includes the daily motion of MEAN Black Moon Lilith . I have a book about TRUE Black Moon Lilith written by a Belgian woman, Rosa Wouters, that includes an ephemeris from 1930-2010. Danish astrologer Christian Borup provided an on-line ephemeris for both MEAN and TRUE BML until his sad death last year. His site has since been taken down. I have yet to find another ephemeris for TRUE BML, although different search machines provide a daily position.
 
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