Should Chiron be considered as one of the primary planets

Lion o ness

Well-known member
I came across this website about Chiron..

http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat02.html

I cant really say Chiron should be considered as a personal planet. But I do believe it should be considered as much as Uranus/Pluto/Jupiter/Neptune.. One of the main outer planets...

Chiron is different in each of us... Chiron is about wounds/and healing.. We all experience these wounds, and at some point in our live we have to find a way to heal these wounds... If we dont, we turn to negative habits/energy...

Chiron is heavily aspected in my Chart...
(with sextiles and Trines) expect 1 opps w/Uranus
I have chiron in the 1st in Aries.... I recieved very deep wounds in my younger years... Stuff I just dont care to share.. For most of my childhood I felt I was unworthy of happiness, I felt no one liked me...

As I got older, I grew self esteem, I showed my Leo confidence, but still not really feeling worthy... I really went through a lot... I never went to thearpy, or worked out my issues with anyone... I just dealt with them in my own way..Keeping everything only to myself... I feel that I have healed myself (so to speak) I mentally worked through these wounds... I feel I am stronger because of it... Plus everything you go through makes you the person you are today... .

Now that Im "wiser" lol....... I have noticed people are coming to me with their problems, ironically some of these things are things that I have been through... It's as if they someone know I will understand.. For some reason I do just understand these issues... Because I have pretty much been through it...

I keep hearing that Chiron is not considered as a major planet... Yet Chiron transits can be hell...
Chiron is also not considered when looking at patterns... Yet I feel it.... I feel as if Chrion is part of my soul....
I feel I had to go through such terrible wounds, so one day I help help others with their wounds.... Not in a god way... In a human way I know I understand I have been there type of way....

If you include Chiron/MC in patterns I have a Kite (I think. or a yod.. not sure.. new to patterns)

Chiron sextile Saturn
Chiron trine Sun
Chiron trine Moon
Chiron trine Mercury
Chiron trine Mars (kinda wide 9 orbs)
Chiron trine MC
Chiron opps Uranus.

I think all the trines, helped me deal with the wounds on my own.. I accepted the wounds, dealt with them, and moved past them..

So with all that being said.. I think if someone has alot of aspects of other planets, it shouldnt necessarily be dismissed.. As just a dwarf planet that doesnt really matter... BC some planets will effect one person, while other planets will effect other people....

Just my 2 cents....
 

Inconjunct

Well-known member
Chiron isn't a planet, it's a planetoid, with characteristics of an asteroid and a comet. As such, I think it doesn't have the same level of influence as - say - a major planet like Saturn. Having said that, my own natal Chiron (in the 12th) is so very, very pertinent for me and my life.
 

EJ53

Banned
bridging conscious and unconscious behaviour

I suspect that Chiron-Sign astrology will one day be as popular as Sun-sign astrology ...with the latter appealing to the masses because it describes the character traits we are most conscious of ...and the former identifying the major life-problem that we are consciously aware of...

In that context ...it provides a bridge/first step towards astrology in the Aquarian Age being seen by the (uninitiated) masses as a tool for self-improvement and the solving of self-created problems...

[This (imo) makes Chiron neither a personal nor a generational body ...as people are able to consciously identify both the effect of it's generational wound upon themselves (personally) and (the house) area of their life where it manifests ...Hence it forms a bridge/first step towards (mass) awareness of our unconscious responses to the generational planets ...and it may well physically disappear from our solar system when that purpose has been achieved]

EJ
 
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miquar

Well-known member
I have a fantasy that Chiron arrived in our solar system just as some kind of evolutionary landmark was attained on the road to the so called civilisation we are trying to create (which could have been way back down the evloutionary tree), reflecting , along with that potential, the Chironian suffering we experience when our nature falls short of our humanitarian ideals.

I never look at a chart without considering Chiron, and tend to treat it equally with the other planets, because its hard to quantify which planet is more important than the next in any chart anyway.
 

Kannon

Well-known member
No. It is an asteroid.

It is not a primary drive in its symbolism, but secondary. It does not 'rule' any sign since it does not relate to a primary drive. Its purpose in a sense is a bridge (key really) to open up the Soul qualities represented by the outermost 3 planets, which take us past materially limited consciousness (Saturn) and bring past-present, body-spirit together.
 

serafin5

Well-known member
This is a really important thread as I was wondering the importance of Chiron myself as I keep hearing how much it figures in one's life. Also, I was wondering about the Vertex; I keep hearing how both Chiron and Vertex figures prominently in synestry as well. Is Vertex an Asteroid as well or a point in the chart such as a 'Midpoint'?

Would really like to know. Thanks.
Serafin5:smile:
 

miquar

Well-known member
According to Horoscope Symbols by Robert Hand, there is a plane that is like the meridian and horizon planes, but which separates the celestial sphere into front and back, and this plane is called the prime vertical. (the horizon plane separates the sphere into up and down, while the meridian plane separates it into east and west, or left and right). Where the prime vertical crosses the plane of the ecliptic, a line is formed, like the horizon or meridian of a typical chart. Where this line intersects the zodiac in the west is called the Vertex.

According to Hand, '..it is most active in situations that are dramatic and not characteristic of one's ordinary life.' And he says some astrologers have linked it with fateful or important encounters involving either people or circumstances.

Hardly anyone uses it for anything as far as I know.
 

miquar

Well-known member
I forgot to mention Chiron - Chiron is very important in synastry because of its similarities with Saturn - i.e. when it is triggered by someone else we are reminded of what we need to do to heal our wounds, and some would say that despite our belief that we consciously choose the people we 'fancy' or whatever, that the unconscious push towards integration is really determines who we end up with.
 

tikana

Well-known member
Lion

you should talk to Zane B Stein on Facebook.. he would love to share his thoughts on Chiron
i think he was writing a book or soemthign about it ..

T
 

serafin5

Well-known member
Thank you so much Miquar for your answer; thats what I needed to know. Just one more quick question: When aspecting Chiron, (and the Vertex?), in a natal and a synastry chart, what orb(s) are typically allowed?

Blessings:biggrin:
serafin5
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Serafin5. People differ in the orbs they use, but I never consider anything beyond 8 degrees for a conjunction opposition or square, and less for the softer aspects. In synastry I'm a bit meaner with the orbs - partly because I just feel like that's a good idea, and partly to try to prevent information overload, which easily happens with more than one chart, plus aspects between charts.

I use the same orbs for Chiron as I do for other planets, but I guess its always at the back of my mind that Chiron might be less powerful as a 'mere' planetoid or whatever the astronomical label is.

Generally speaking, the tighter the orb, the more compelling the connection, in natal and synastry aspects. Also, if an aspect doesn't involve an inner planet I reduce the orb allowance for both natal and synastry, but reduce it less for Jupiter and Saturn. I don't have hard and fast rules that I follow though.

I don't know what to say about the Vertex - if I did use it I'd probably only allow a few degrees of orb.
 

Lion o ness

Well-known member
I think my chiron is a senstive spot for me.. I seem to have alot of chiron connections with people...

Oddly Its usually my chiron and very very few aspects to their chiron...

What do you think that means?
My ex husband's moon conjunct my chiron..

Another guy that changed me drastically, his chiron conjunct my dsc... He had this HUGE effect on me..It really caught me off guard.
 
Thank you so much Miquar for your answer; thats what I needed to know. Just one more quick question: When aspecting Chiron, (and the Vertex?), in a natal and a synastry chart, what orb(s) are typically allowed?

Blessings:biggrin:
serafin5

natal IS different to synastry. max orb I would use is 3' for synastry for all planets,angles, points.

Natal is very different.
Sun/moon have 10' orb for aspects + - 10'
the rest have conj, square, opposition + - 8'
sextile & trine + - 6'
quincunx max 3'

aspect orbs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/orbs.php
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspects.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horoscope
http://www.myastrologybook.com/aspects-and-orbs.htm
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7107&highlight=orbs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7867&highlight=orbs
 
I think my chiron is a senstive spot for me.. I seem to have alot of chiron connections with people...

Oddly Its usually my chiron and very very few aspects to their chiron...

What do you think that means?
My ex husband's moon conjunct my chiron..

Another guy that changed me drastically, his chiron conjunct my dsc... He had this HUGE effect on me..It really caught me off guard.
it's very hard to say without seeing the charts involved and whether chiron is 'solely responsible' or what else was going on in your chart at that time. Quite often it's Saturn or uranus that breaks a relationship in hard aspect to venus and/or moon....

synastry and divorce
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13745&highlight=synastry+divorce
Synastry & divorce--- really great article, well worth reading-----
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0OJgX88KKMsC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=astrolog y+2nd+marriage&source=bl&ots=DoV__K_IQS&sig=dI1UAX 5oprrQLtfzYUrJ4_XzuKU&hl=en&ei=zBV0SsfnHYqhjAf5rN2 nBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepa ge&q=&f=false
 

Ruka_5

Banned
Should it be considered a planet? No.

Having said that, just because it's an asteroid and not a planet, doesn't necessarily mean it should be pitched out the window and not incorporated into chart analysis. Do I believe every last asteroid should be plugged into a chart and read? No, but the whole Chiron thing does seem to have legs...
 

miquar

Well-known member
I would certainly consider orbs wider than 3 degrees for synastry, especially where an ascendant or the Sun or Moon are concerned. I think any major aspect within 5 degrees is worthy of consideration, especially the hard aspects. Many people use the same orbs as for natal and find this works.

Saturn can make relationships difficult when the person whose Saturn is aspected is experiencing the more fearful and over-compensating side of Saturn, because that person will try to control and demand respect from the other person. But relationships with no significant Saturn aspects tend not to stand the test of time, so Saturn is by no means to be avoided when looking at synastry. Often relationships come to an end under a Saturn transit, but they also can be strengthened by such a transit. And room for Uranus cross-aspects can be made in a relationship with conscious awareness and a willingness to experiment. As astrologer50 said above, it very much depends on the temperaments of the individuals as shown in the birth charts.

With your Chiron on your ex-husband's Moon, his personal and domestic habits - the way he reacts to things and the way he tries to be intimate and to feel secure - may have triggered some wound in you. This may have made it difficult for you to accept his instinctual, inner child. As with any such contact it would depend largely on where you were at with your Chiron. If you had experienced things earlier in your life that had crushed your ideals and wounded you in some way, and if your were still angry about that on some level during your relationship with him, then his Lunar side would probably have triggered the wounds and the anger. In such a case you might have found yourself resisting his attempts at intimacy (or I guess if he had something like Moon in Aquarius it could have been his apparent lack of need for intimacy that bothered you) because of your own wounds. You may have been angered by his habits and found yourself lashing out in some way that could potentially wound his Lunar side. But to the extent that you had accepted your wounds, and the chaotic and violent nature of life that makes such wounds a part of life, then you would have had great power to help him heal any wounds that were limiting the expression and fulfilment of his Lunar nature.

Your ascendant being opposite the other man's Chiron may only have been a small part of his huge impression on you - the rest of the synastry and your transits and progressions at the time would complete the picture. He may have had healing insights into the way you express yourself to the world - the way you perceive your environment and what it requires of you. This could feel really big if your ascendant had previously been limiting the flow of energy between you and the world.

If you get a lot of people in your life whose charts form aspects to your Chiron, especially hard aspects from their Sun, Moon, ascendant or other personal planets, it could mean that you would benefit from looking at how Chiron is working for you. If someone has their Sun in hard aspect to your Chiron, what does it feel like when they 'show off' or celebrate their sense of uniqueness and purpose in some way? If someone's Mercury forms a hard aspect to your Chiron, how do their ideas and manner of expressing them, or their curiosity about you, affect you? If you have close aspects to Chiron from personal points in your own chart, then these will help you to fathom what is going on.
 

Lion o ness

Well-known member
Wow.. All of you guys are so good :smile:

As for the ex husband I dont blame chiron for ending the marriage, I agree that was T.Saturn and T.Uranus.. The eventually ended it...
Chiron was a "theme" within our marriage, I guess thats the best way to put it..
His Aries Moon conjunct my Aries Chiron. (in my H1)
My chiron trined his IC..
(In this situation he had more chiron Aspects to me)

His Pisces chiron sq my Venus (out of sign sq) Venus in Cancer
His Chiron in my H1
His chiron on my anti vertex
His chiron sq my Jupiter
His chiron opps my Pluto (out of sign)

In the beginning he thought I was a lost soul (he's a virgo) He wanted to help me, and said I just needed to be loved and then I would be this wonderful person (neptune maybe?)
Then he realized Im not a lost soul, Im a super strong person.. He then wanted me to be the "stronger one" and solve all the problems and handle everything...
He was making me feel like I was his "knight in shinning armour" That bothered me ALOT.. One thing after another help me help me...
I started feeling resentment... Arent you the man?? Shoudlnt you be handing the problems and protecting me?? Why do I have to do EVERYTHING...
I then got to the point where I just flately refused to help with anything.. I would just say nope.. not goin do it.. Your on your own.. You have to fix it!

Well when T. Saturn hit my Vertex (in my H7) it hit his Uranus in h12
T.Uranus hit my Asc and his Dsc.

The shitz hit the fan..
It was a start of a series of events.. Where he "needed" my help.. I again told him NOPE! These are your concenquences you have to accept them and deal with them on your own..
Which he was finally doing.... but he still had to settle his things and accept the concenquences..... And he did that.. I stood behind him..

But more and more things kept creeping up for him (but thats t. Saturn in his 12th) It got worse and worse..
Then bam we both got a shocker!
He had a "plan" that he couldnt tell me about at that time.. He said dont worry about it, I know what I am doing..
I said ok.. So I waited patientely...
When he was able to reveil his so callled plan , it had ME doing everything and solving the problem..
I said no... I cant do that... Plus he hit a point that he's unhelpable.. there really was nothiing no one could do to help him.. IT was way to late... He reached the point of no return...
In the long run, he now feels like I turned my back on him.. Which is not the case... There's nothing that I could do to help him... He doesnt see that because he "plan" would have worked.. but nahhh... I know iit wouldnt.. *I couldnt involve my self in it..
I had no choice but to walk away... Which is exactly what I did.. Sayiing Im not your knight and shinning aromour.... I cant help you... I can not do what you want me to do....
IF it wasnt for this one incident, we would still be together...

Just for the record.. We had never spoke of separating or divorcing.. This wasnt even a thought in our minds...
I assumed I would be with him forever.... not that I was extremely happy or madly in love, but because I gave my word.
 
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