I have found the signature for alcoholism

Repeating myself, it goes back to WHY people drink. That will determine what planets will be involved as transits will then trigger the problem.

mdinaz said:

Repeating myself, it goes back to WHY people drink. That will determine what planets will be involved as transits will then trigger the problem.

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I agree with you. Charts show all kinds of different inner stresses for people. People drink for different reasons: self-medication, to be part of a group of friends/cultural pressures, or to take the fast-track to the depths of human existence.

Once people start drinking excessively, some will get addicted but some won't. I believe there is a genetic predisposition with the former.

I think we do need to look at Neptune as a very significant factor for addictions, as well as Jupiter and, to some extent, Venus: probably these are the most significant 3 of the planets as potential markers for addictions, and I think bringing in also the Moon and Mars, would round out the indications quite well (of course the South Node and crescent-on-cross Lilith, are never to be excluded in such considerations)
...I notice that Lilith is mising from all of the charts posted on this thread: I'd like to see where Lilith (crescent on cross Lilith) is and connections to it, in these charts.

mdinaz said:

Repeating myself, it goes back to WHY people drink. That will determine what planets will be involved as transits will then trigger the problem.

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I agree with you. Jupiter is the planet of happiness. Go figure.
My small test was to see if Jupiter would be adversely aspected in the chart of those recognised as alcoholics and/or any relevance of Neptune. It wasn't 'psychological' of nature. The link to a personal planet might provide more info. in that direction?

Jupiter is associated with good health and well-being. Where there's a predisposition towards a physical complaint, one might expect to find a harsh Jupiter, don't you think?
As a 'control' test, I took another physical complaint. First thought that came to mind was deafness. Checking 15 charts on 1st page of astrodatabank again, I wanted to see if Jupiter would be as relevant as a 'health' complaint as, astrologically, it appears to have little to do with the ears. Neptune, however, rules the labyrinth of the inner ear.

It proved to be more difficult as Jupiter made several aspects within a chart to the personal planets. My work pad got a bit messed up! It may be easier to say that there were 5 charts without harsh aspect to Jupiter. This would still be considered above average.
Neptune, however, was completely different. Only 1 chart showed no harsh aspect from the personal planets with Neptune; as did Saturn, also considered an aspect of deafness.
Mercury, ruler of the ears as per 'hearing' was strongly in evidence.

What does this little test prove? That people suffering from deafness have a tendency towards alcoholism that cannot be controlled????

Back to square 1 and do not collect €200 !

I have become very aware of the 8th house when looking at alcohol and drug issues. I have three friends that have alcohol and drug issues and all of them have a stellium of planets posited in 8th house.
I believe that strong water aspects can feel the urge to escape through alcohol because thoughts are so reactive and personal,it is easier to dwell in self pity, especially if there is no earth or nothing to ground one with. The Pluto conjunct Sun in 8th does it for me and with the Sun being in Leo emotions are very dramatic causing one to reach for the bottle. Because addictions are hard to bypass if you have an obsessive soul or mind. I know this being a Scorpio myself, I am lucky to have my Sun in the sixth as it reminds me of the intense dangers that I could so easily fall into and have suffered with addictive rituals myself.

I think also that Jupiter is ultimately associated with confidence and often speaks about how much we feel we can get away with - for example, criminals may have strong Jupiter because they believe it is their right to be acting in a certain manner or taking what they believe to be theirs, it is Saturn that keeps hold of reality check. What is interesting is that both Jupiter and the Moon are in their own houses but because Jupiter is in opposition perhaps the feelings of this Moon just compel the urge to let go and act on what they feel comfortable and happy with, especially as reactions are so quick with Aries, but the Jupiter Opposition, the glass is never really full enough, hard to keep a balance with Libra as they constantly oppose each other, it's that awkward tension of not knowing when to stop..

Jupiter indicates areas of excess and over indulgence - some people have an alcohol problem not because they are physically addicted to it, but because they over-do it and can't handle themselves when they do. If they are continually in an environment where excess is the rule and peer pressure is present, then they may end up with a problem that is more emotional or psychological, and not physical at all. They can quit, physically, with no problem, but not until they are removed from the environment that fosters it.

I agree. Jupiter can be the energy of "if a little is good, a lot is better."

Sort of the "Eat, drink, and be merry," or "Wine, women, and song" tropes.

If one drink is good, five should be even better-- especially at a feel-good event like a party.

waybread said:

I agree. Jupiter can be the energy of "if a little is good, a lot is better."

Sort of the "Eat, drink, and be merry," or "Wine, women, and song" tropes.

If one drink is good, five should be even better-- especially at a feel-good event like a party.

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If one woman is good, five must be better also. Hmm.

There are men who think that way. Call it polyamory, promiscuity, playing the field, or.......

In either sex, look for a Venus-Mars aspect, plus Jupiter in the mix.

No kidding.

To Ebenia and to Kbell:

Would you be so kind as to give the position of Lilith (crescent on cross Lilith, in the "additional objects" box, third "object" from top) for the charts you have posted on this thread?
Thank you!

Dr.Farr here you go!

Thanks!

In this chart I notice that Jupiter (tendency to excesses) disposits both 12th house Sagittarius with Saturn there, and 3rd house Pisces with Lilith there (one influence attributed to Lilith is a tendency to bring out the unbalanced qualities of any sign it is posited in-here, it is in Pisces), and that there is a partile square between 12th house (house of self-undoing) Saturn and Lilith; also Lilith is in the 3rd whole sign house of communications, so there could be something negative here (Lilith influence on 3rd house matters) regarding communications (or possiblysomething - with brothers/sisters, or maybe neighbors, or perhaps co-workers, etc) Also, there is a partile quincunx involving Lilith and 8th (whole sign) house posited Uranus: so, hard (aspectual) connections here with Lilith + Saturn + Uranus, and involving Jovian signs (Sagittarius, Pisces) and 12th and 8th houses (and 3rd house)...

I just realized I actually have another alcoholics chart too. This is a mans chart who has always been fond of alcohol, but after the break up of a marriage and their family with three children, it got a whole lot worse. He was also alcoholic during the marriage, but not as badly. Now he does not even have a job anymore and he just drinks.

Thanks for the chart and background info!

-Jupiter (excesses) is the most elevated planet in the chart, and is posited in Taurus (which sign can also be one of excess, self-indulgence, etc)
-Jupiter is conjunct the stars Mira and Mirach: see their indications (eg @ constellationsofwords.com)-this is particularly interesting in light of the background information of this case provided by Ebenia
-crescent-on-cross Lilith is posited in the 5th whole sign house (pleasures; also children, etc) in Sagittarius, disposited by Jupiter
-Venus-dispositor of Jupiter (in Taurus)-is in partile opposition to Lilith
-ascending degree is 21 Leo, and (in whole sign) the "cusp" of the 7th house (marriage, love relationships, etc) is 21 Aquarius: Neptune is within orb of square to both the ascending degree and to the (whole sign) 7th house cusp
-Jupiter-dispositor Venus is in close square to both Uranus and Pluto, these 2 planets (Uranus+Pluto) being in conjunction
-Uranus+Pluto are also square Lilith

Cypocryphy said:

Or at least one/some of them. Feel free to test me with charts of those who may or may not be an alcoholic. I would like to see.

This is a hypothesis at the moment, but if you have any anonymous charts of alcoholics and wouldn't mind posting them on here, then I shall attempt to identify. Please do not reveal whether the person is an alcoholic. It's the only way to test.

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Hi I was going to PM you some charts (rather than post publicly) but it was rejected saying you need to delete some private messages before you can receive any new private messages. If you are ready to accept new private messages I'm happy to send you some chart info privately.

Interesting that one of the charts posted was for 1964 - a tough birth year.(uranus/pluto opp saturn - anxiety/inner doubt)

A family member born in that year is drinking to excess(has a similar chart to that posted) - there is a real problem in UK with many people not realising that there social drinking has got out of control. Fortunately recently he seems to be owning up to it and getting back in shape.

However also noted the dominate fire in these charts - so for many years these people can carry on drinking unnoticed (to those around them/hold down jobs etc - would probably be very agressive if challenged about it) as there body is able to burn off the excess - with the fire planets etc. I think those with water planets are less able to do this so any problems with alcholol would show sooner and their physical body would be less able to do deal with this.

Again those with water planets I would think struggle with recovering from addiction and also would have problems long term recovering from it/physically mentally.

hence the astro steriotype of water planets/neptune types being addicts/drunks etc.

there are so many dependencies - environmental/social etc I dont see how you can have a template for this.