Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Cactus

Well-known member
And since this is a discussion of Pluto, maybe you could address the question: have you ever tested Pluto and studied it in your natal chart or others?

That question you have evaded.

Don't you think it would help to at least have others give your anti-Pluto posts some consideration, if you could answer the question, Have you studied Pluto? Or any of the outer planets?

This thread is about Pluto, so some proof that you REALLY know what you're talking about would be nice.

Then again, you could totally lie and say, Yes I've studied it and it just doesn't work, blah blah. But I'm guessing you have not truly studied it. Why are you evading this question?
 

StillOne

Well-known member
Skyscript, a pretty well respected site, has quite a bit of information on Pluto: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pluto2.html
This site also has discussion on Uranus and Neptune should anyone wish to learn more.

General Principle:
Sometimes considered a 'higher octave' of Mars, Pluto is similarly powerful and penetrating, but on an unconscious and psychological level. It gradually permeates the subconscious with its drives, leaving the conscious unaware until suddenly and explosively it emerges in an instinctive response that brings sweeping and often devastating change in the psyche and way of living. It can thus be a force for great personal good or ill. It evokes the principles of resurrection and determination, which when positively expressed bring resolution; when negatively expressed, coercion.

Pluto governs the conversion of apparent lost causes into successful projects, but at times the receding of objectives when their point of realisation seems imminent; cycles of death and rebirth; disregard for vested interests; extremes of good and bad (including luck); the frustration and annihilation of plans; idealistic socially motivated organisations; ideas ahead of their time; the inspiration to put an end to failing conditions; involvement in organised groups and movements desirous of social reconstruction, which may include altruistic interest groups, political parties and think tanks, professional associations and trade unions, and also gangs and underground organisations; the negation and transformation of conditions; non-recognition of the legitimacy or impositions of officially established authorities; righteous indignation on behalf of social causes; and the voluntary relinquishment of worldly interests in order to advance spiritual development, or of home, country or fortune for marriage. It manifests in writers and dramatists who seek to inculcate reformist doctrines into their literary works. It is compulsive, intense, and sometimes manipulative.

Significations:
People signified by Pluto include aeronauts, anonymous writers, archaeologists, leaders of large organisations and movements, nuclear scientists, sociological writers, space explorers and scientists, television engineers and technicians, those working underground, and weather forecasters.

Physically, Pluto governs metabolic balance, and the nerve centres connecting the solar plexus with the sacral plexus and the top of the spinal column with the pineal gland. When prominent, it confers medium stature; a rugged, sturdy build; delicate skin; and fine, soft head hair but little body hair. Illnesses include ailments resulting from mineral deposition caused by acidosis; arthritis; and arteriosclerosis.

Jeffrey Wolf Green and the school of Evolutionary Astrology deal extensively with Pluto in their work.
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/

The Four Ways That Pluto Affects Its Evolutionary Intentions by Deva Green:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/articles/4-ways
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

And since this is a discussion of Pluto, maybe you could address the question: have you ever tested Pluto and studied it in your natal chart or others?

That question you have evaded.

Don't you think it would help to at least have others give your anti-Pluto posts some consideration,
if you could answer the question,
Have you studied Pluto? Or any of the outer planets?

This thread is about Pluto, so some proof that you REALLY know what you're talking about would be nice.

Then again, you could totally lie and say,
Yes I've studied it and it just doesn't work, blah blah.
But I'm guessing you have not truly studied it. Why are you evading this question?
you have clearly pre-judged and condemned any comment I may make
and have even included the possibility that 'you could totally lie'

the fact is this thread is a discussion on whether dwarf planet pluto is an astrological planet or not

clearly there are differences of opinion on this matter
:smile:
 

Dirius

Well-known member
And since this is a discussion of Pluto, maybe you could address the question: have you ever tested Pluto and studied it in your natal chart or others?

That question you have evaded.

Don't you think it would help to at least have others give your anti-Pluto posts some consideration, if you could answer the question, Have you studied Pluto? Or any of the outer planets?

This thread is about Pluto, so some proof that you REALLY know what you're talking about would be nice.

Then again, you could totally lie and say, Yes I've studied it and it just doesn't work, blah blah. But I'm guessing you have not truly studied it. Why are you evading this question?

I'll be honest, I've never studied pluto.

But this is because pretty much any conclusion can be gathered from the other 7 planets. So why would I try to add an aditional source of information that can provide nothing new?

Yes you can find a "prominent" pluto in someone's chart. You can probably also find specific positions for saturn and mars that would give you the same conclusion.

And the question would be for you: have you ever studied the classical planets in its complete and original essence?

Because the same reasoning can be applied to your arguments.
 
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sasa62

Well-known member
I'll be honest, I've never studied pluto.

But this is because pretty much any conclusion can be gathered from the other 7 planets. So why would I try to add an aditional source of information that can provide nothing new?

Yes you can find a "prominent" pluto in someone's chart. You can probably also find specific positions for saturn and mars that would give you the same conclusion.

And the question would be for you: have you ever studied the classical planets in its complete and original essence?

Because the same reasoning can be applied to your arguments.


thank you for your honesty

but we have nothing to discuss ...

that the discussion of the horary question and I write for example:

"I do not know the rules of horary questions, but I do not care I can give an answer to horary question"

What would you have had to discuss with this person ???

and that is exactly what you wrote

for smart person completely enough

sorry for my English
 

StillOne

Well-known member
But this is because pretty much any conclusion can be gathered from the other 7 planets. So why would I try to add an aditional source of information that can provide nothing new?

When you mention this, are you referring to a particular type of astrology? Horary, prediction, natal, or everything?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
thank you for your honesty

but we have nothing to discuss ...

that the discussion of the horary question and I write for example:

"I do not know the rules of horary questions, but I do not care I can give an answer to horary question"

What would you have had to discuss with this person ???

and that is exactly what you wrote

for smart person completely enough

sorry for my English
The same applies to dwarf planet pluto afficianados
i.e.
unless one can delineate using traditional, hellenistic and/or ancient astrology
which clearly show
that the 7 classical planets
fixed stars
and Lots aka Arabic Parts

and eclipses explain anything dwarf planet pluto allegedly explains.

therefore

IF

dwarf planet pluto does 'mean something'
then it should be able to describe something that the 7 classical planets do not :smile:

and

that is not the case

because

for thousands of years
7 classical planets
eclipses
Lots aka Arabic parts
Fixed Stars
and
classical techniques
describe any natal chart completely without any need for dwarf planet pluto
 

StillOne

Well-known member
The same applies to dwarf planet pluto afficianados
i.e.
unless one can delineate using traditional, hellenistic and/or ancient astrology
which clearly show
that the 7 classical planets
fixed stars
and Lots aka Arabic Parts

and eclipses explain anything dwarf planet pluto allegedly explains.

therefore

IF

dwarf planet pluto does 'mean something'
then it should be able to describe something that the 7 classical planets do not :smile:

and

that is not the case

because

for thousands of years
7 classical planets
eclipses
Lots aka Arabic parts
Fixed Stars
and
classical techniques
describe any natal chart completely without any need for dwarf planet pluto
In my post above, I just included a nice piece from Skyscript that examines the influence of Pluto. :joyful:
As mentioned by Skyscript, there clearly is value in delineating with Pluto.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In my post above, I just included a nice piece from Skyscript that examines the influence of Pluto. :joyful:
And my previous post clearly explains why dwarf planet pluto is not required
for astrological delineation
using 7 classical planets
fixed stars
eclipses
Arabic Parts aka Lots

and classical techniques :smile:

i.e.

The same applies to dwarf planet pluto afficianados
i.e.
unless one can delineate using traditional, hellenistic and/or ancient astrology
which clearly show
that the 7 classical planets
fixed stars
and Lots aka Arabic Parts

and eclipses explain anything dwarf planet pluto allegedly explains.

therefore

IF

dwarf planet pluto does 'mean something'
then it should be able to describe something that the 7 classical planets do not :smile:

and

that is not the case

because

for thousands of years
7 classical planets
eclipses
Lots aka Arabic parts
Fixed Stars
and
classical techniques
describe any natal chart completely without any need for dwarf planet pluto
 

StillOne

Well-known member
And my previous post clearly explains why dwarf planet pluto is not required
for astrological delineation
using 7 classical planets
fixed stars
eclipses
Arabic Parts aka Lots

and classical techniques :smile:

i.e.

The same applies to dwarf planet pluto afficianados
i.e.
unless one can delineate using traditional, hellenistic and/or ancient astrology
which clearly show
that the 7 classical planets
fixed stars
and Lots aka Arabic Parts

and eclipses explain anything dwarf planet pluto allegedly explains.

therefore

IF

dwarf planet pluto does 'mean something'
then it should be able to describe something that the 7 classical planets do not :smile:

and

that is not the case

because

for thousands of years
7 classical planets
eclipses
Lots aka Arabic parts
Fixed Stars
and
classical techniques
describe any natal chart completely without any need for dwarf planet pluto
Which it does as seen in the Skyscript quote above.

Times change and evolution occurs. Everything changes. There is nothing that is permanent.
Impermanence is a principle of harmony. When we don’t struggle against it, we are in harmony with reality. – Pema Chodron
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Which it does as seen in the Skyscript quote above.

Times change and evolution occurs.

Everything changes.
There is nothing that is permanent.
Everything is transient
however the 7 classical planets currently exist

FURTHERMORE
dwarf planet pluto is in orbit around one of those 7 classical planets
i.e.
the Sun
:smile:
all.jpg
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
StillOne said:
Which it does as seen in the Skyscript quote above.

Just because it is on SkyScript doesn't mean it's anything special. What is special about SkyScript is that its articles are mostly well researched, thought provoking, and well-documented. While I can't speak for the articles written by guest writers (as all of the Pluto articles were), Deb's work typically discusses the way some technique is used throughout the tradition with documented source material.

The Pluto articles provide quite a contrast with their conjecture and lack of documentation. The only decent one is by Philip Graves, but all of those books were written when Pluto was less than 50 years old.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I'll be honest, I've never studied pluto.

But this is because pretty much any conclusion can be gathered from the other 7 planets. So why would I try to add an aditional source of information that can provide nothing new?

Agreed, especially as much of Pluto's signification, as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets, comes from mythology (which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology), pure conjucture or speculation, or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.
 

StillOne

Well-known member
Agreed, especially as much of Pluto's signification, as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets, comes from mythology (which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology), pure conjucture or speculation, or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.

Why do we think that so many astrologers have embraced Pluto if it doesn't do anything? The same can be asked about Uranus and Neptune.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Why do we think that so many astrologers have embraced Pluto if it doesn't do anything?

The same can be asked about Uranus and Neptune.
keeping on topic then

and so

focusing on dwarf planet pluto :smile:

Agreed,

especially as

much of Pluto's signification,

as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets,
comes from mythology
(which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology),
pure conjucture
or speculation,
or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets
.
 

StillOne

Well-known member
Seems you may have missed it
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Agreed, especially as much of Pluto's signification....

...is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.

You don't say! So since tsmall deems it so, it's as good as gold?
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Why do we think that so many astrologers have embraced Pluto if it doesn't do anything? The same can be asked about Uranus and Neptune.

In my opinion only, for the same reason that so many astrologers have chosen to disregard classical astrology. Modern astrology was basically born in the 20th century and bears little resemblance to traditional astrology. There are those who have no wish to understand astrology any further than the reliance on myth for signification; those who feel that anything old must surely be outdated; and those who are just to lazy to study the classical underpinnings of astrology.

I'm not suggesting they have no meaning. I would suggest that the reason you see traditional astrologers, especially horarists using them is because those astrologers want to be accepted by a broader base.

It does remain that there is no way to shoe-horn or retrofit the outer planets into the dignity scheme, for example, because it exists the way it does for a reason; that reasoning gives the foundations of astrology--and not just for the significations of the planets. Aspect meanings as well as the significations of the houses also rely on the seven traditional planets. They are intertwined in a way that looses signification if broken apart.

If we are to count Pluto as an astrological planet, then is it nocturnal or diurnal? What are it's terms? Decans? Is it masculine or feminine? Where is it exalted? Where does it fall? In which degree?
 
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