Drug Abuse in a chart

amber_dawn

Well-known member
I've been wondering what can signify drug abuse in a chart--would it be more in the natal aspects or in transits?

Do you think based on planets, signs, and houses involved in certain aspects it could even tell what kind of substance that person might become addicted to?

Just curious.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
You really need to post a chart of anyone you are enquiring about, anonymous of course.

Neptune, 12th house, badly challenged and in connection with the Sun, Moon for instance. Sometimes the 8th house as well and Pluto.

Everyone is different and there will be different scenarios involving different houses. Often addictions are inherited and are in the genes. We cannot say what drugs will be abused but for alcohol Pisces, Scorpio, Cancer, Moon and Neptune with Pluto.
.
 

amber_dawn

Well-known member
Ahh... I was sort of asking in general, like with what you said about the 12th house, or neptune...

Any daily transits that signify drug use? Probably transits involving Neptune, I would think....

I posted a chart of a friend who has some problems with substance abuse, but i'm not sure how accurate her birthtime is. It's what she says, but only ten minutes earlier would put Jupiter in the 12th house and saturn & neptune in the 6th. Any ideas?

Thanks for your answers thou! :)
 

Attachments

  • h_chart.gif
    h_chart.gif
    68.2 KB · Views: 101
Last edited:

greybeard

Well-known member
Substance abuse, astrologically, can be attributed to many factors.

Neptune powerful (on an Angle, for example) can be an indicator, because Neptune symbolizes "other-worldliness, dream states, hallucination, dependency in any form, escapism, and anesthesia -- which is not feeling pain."

Venus of course shows "sensuality", which can mean habitually turning to what pleases the body, what makes us feel good.

Moon, symbol of irrationality, lunacy, and long before Neptune came along, was the indicator of dependent states and flight from responsibility.

But then Jupiter shows excesses of all sorts. Saturn shows isolation and depression. Mars shows anger and a need for excitement. Mercury challenged by Uranus creates states of chronic nervous tension. And down the list we go.

So.... We can't ascribe substance abuse or drug dependency to any single chart factor. As with everything else we have to study the whole chart and see where that leads us.

If we consider the map of the sky before us to also be a map of the psyche of the person, and if we agree that the human mind literally creates its own world and destiny...

Then the state of the psyche determines the destiny. Out of the psyche flows the fate. As Heraclitus said, Character is destiny.

Fully half of the population of the United States uses, on a regular basis, some form of mind-altering drug, whether legal or illegal. Alcohol is most certainly a drug. What is the percentage of school chidren diagnosed as hyperactive or whatever and made into drug addicts by our doctors, with the support of society? How many people do you know who habitually use pain killers, medicines to combat anxiety or depression, diet pills, etc? I used to drive taxicab, and the first time I took a passenger to a meth clinic (where heroin addicts get their daily breakfast of orange juice) I was flabbergasted by the number of people going in and out of the clinic. Who here has not tried marijuana (although few of us have ever inhaled)? Drug abuse (addiction) is not a rarity, it is a commonplace. The clue lies in the fact that people talk about "my meds", a very familiar term, nice and cozy...not medicine,or drugs, but meds.

We must understand what it is in the psychological makeup that drives a person to use drugs, and the causes are many, as reflected in the descriptions of planets above.

This society has produced a generation of people who will do ANYTHING to avoid feeling pain in any form. Sadly, pain is both necessary and useful. People who flee from pain are foolish people.

When I was 11 years old I decided I would learn to speak Spanish. When I was 27 I moved to Mexico, not yet speaking Spanish. I realized that if I spoke one word of English it would delay, if not prevent, learning Spanish. So I refused to speak any English, and avoided all people who spoke it. So I didn't speak Spanish well, and did not allow myself to speak English. Human beings have a very deep and vital need to communicate with other people; it is a basic need. So this was the loneliest time of my entire life, a painful loneliness. I was effectively cut off from other people. And then one night I woke up and saw that I had been dreaming in Spanish. My unconscious mind had accepted Spanish as its own; I had given it no choice. The pain of that loneliness created the psychic energy that pushed me over the threshold of fluency.

I was on the swimming team in high school. The daily workouts caused severe physical pain. I have literally had muscle cramps from my head to my toes over extended periods of time. You face the pain, look to the goal, go through the pain to the other side of it, and transcend it. In the process you become stronger, and move closer to perfection and excellence.

The Twelfth House is the house of bondage, self-destructive actions.... It is the radical chart which determines such things as addictions. Transits may indicate the onset, but the radix is the determinant.
 

bittermoon

Well-known member
I looked at the chart of a good friend of mine who's now finally been clean for a few years, after many years of abusing cocaine and alcohol.

In her chart I see the following things which could point into the direction of substance abuse:

- Neptune conjunct Jupiter conjunct Venus conjunct the IC in Sagg.

- Now, this lovely stellium is squaring her Virgo Moon in 12th. She comes across as a 'tough' girl, despite being very small, but she keeps most of her emotions to herself. I think her having the moon in 12th also afforded her to indulge in these habits for many years, without anybody knowing. She maintained a job in banking all the while (but was doing drugs on the job to make it through the day).
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Ahh... I was sort of asking in general, like with what you said about the 12th house, or neptune...

Any daily transits that signify drug use? Probably transits involving Neptune, I would think....

I posted a chart of a friend who has some problems with substance abuse, but i'm not sure how accurate her birthtime is. It's what she says, but only ten minutes earlier would put Jupiter in the 12th house and saturn & neptune in the 6th. Any ideas?

Thanks for your answers thou! :)
Any transits have to hit off a natal chart influence and Neptune can trigger off addictions I guess. The 12th house has to be tenanted or heavily aspected for addictions. But the tendency has to be there from birth. No daily transits as such as they come and go and have no real effects. The water signs and planets are always involved with alcohol especially.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
(All of the following is my hypothesizing based on science, so please do not listen to me too much. I'm horribly un-dogmatic here. Heck, I showed that Neptune's effect lowers the risk for drug addiction based on science.)

From my understanding, the bad things for drugs are all the "hot" planets and signs. Some would say Mercury, but I think Mercury would be particularly nasty for this, being flitty and needing stimulation and all, if conjunct to a hot planet, but would be against drugs if conjunct a cold one, since Mercury is just barely cold and dry.

"Eysenck compared this trait [extraversion/intraversion] to the four temperaments of ancient medicine, with choleric and sanguine temperaments equating to extraversion, and melancholic and phlegmatic temperaments equating to introversion"
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_vs._introversion

Sanguine (extra) = hot and wet
Choleric (extra) = hot and dry
Phlegmatic (intro) = cold and wet
Melancholic (intro) = cold and dry
- http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sanguine.html

"Extroversion has shown to share certain genetic markers with substance abuse. "
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_trait#List_of_personality_traits

Worst signs for drug abuse, in order from highest chance going down:
1. Sagittarius
2. Leo
3. Aries
4. Gemini
5. Libra
6. Aquarius
7. Pisces
8. Scorpio
9. Virgo
10. Taurus
11. Cancer
12. Capricorn

(My theory of signs says that signs own the planets in them, not that planets own the signs they rule, so qualities of signs are more important than those of planets. If you notice, the sign list basically just looks at the hot or cold quality of a sign and then the position of its domicile planet on the next list to determine the order of signs.)

Planets:
1. Jupiter
2. Sun
3. Mars
4. Mercury
5. Venus
6. Moon
7. Saturn

All the planets past Saturn are mostly cold, with Neptune being entirely cold but Uranus and Pluto having a hot secondary type, so:

4.3: Uranus (melancholic/sanguine)
4.6: Pluto (melancholic/choleric)
6.5: Neptune (melancholic/phlegmatic)
 
Last edited:

amber_dawn

Well-known member
Worst signs for drug abuse, in order from highest chance going down:
1. Sagittarius
2. Leo
3. Aries
4. Gemini
5. Libra
6. Aquarius
7. Pisces
8. Scorpio
9. Virgo
10. Taurus
11. Cancer
12. Capricorn


I've definitely always thought of Sagittarius to be the sign to most frequent to abuse drugs, and drugs of any kind too. The rest of the list doesn't quite add up for me (I've probably known the most drug addicts who had a sun sign in the last 4--however they were all rising fire or air signs).

Anyway, thanks for all the answers to everyone! Very informative.... :)
 

sequestra

Well-known member
Haven't read the other responses, but I've been addicted to uppers, downers and all-rounders. Blame most of it on venus/mars in pisces 5th square neptune in 1st. And I'm a pisces... With sag rising conjunct jupiter/uranus in sag (square my sun).

Not doing drugs atm...
 

hknt99

Well-known member
sun- sag asc-pis, i tried all of it, injecting, snorting but it just doesnt worth it , i dont like it
but i have noticed when there are pisces positions (especially when moon is in pisces) the individual needs to escape
my pisces grandma is still smoking at the age 66
 

greybeard

Well-known member
If we will stop looking at the planets as planets ("I have Venus/Mars in Pisces 5th") and start looking at them as character traits we might learn something about the hows and whys of drug addiction, or whatever it is that we want to study in a person, and be of some use to them in healing their wounded souls.
 

sequestra

Well-known member
If we will stop looking at the planets as planets ("I have Venus/Mars in Pisces 5th") and start looking at them as character traits we might learn something about the hows and whys of drug addiction, or whatever it is that we want to study in a person, and be of some use to them in healing their wounded souls.

Okay so what are you getting at? You want us to extrapolate on personal manifestations of specific placements? I wasn't inferring that all venus/mars in pisces 5th square neptune in 1st people will express their planetary energies in the way that I did, but I do believe those energies unfolded in that vein for me, personally, at that point in time. Yes, I'm unevolved.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I agree with you sequestra. I wasn't picking on you; your position was sitting before my eyes so I used it as an example. What we need to do is study the deeper psychological meanings of the planets so that we gain understanding of ourselves or others.

Pisces is notorious for being unable to face reality, and wallowing in self-pity. "Being unable to face reality" implies a need to escape. Reality is hard and cold, and Pisces recoils from that, and this often leads to dependency in one form or another. I have a grown son with the Moon in Pisces, and he loves to be the victim; to get him to look at life realistically is hard to say the least. The son of a friend has the Moon in Pisces; he has lived at home with no job for the past 5 years or more, and seems incapable of taking care of himself in the world.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. We have to understand the chart as an integrated whole if we are to make astrology useful. Once we have a picture of the Whole Person, we can begin turning weakness into strength. But what the heck, we each have a destiny and have to live it out.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I've definitely always thought of Sagittarius to be the sign to most frequent to abuse drugs, and drugs of any kind too. The rest of the list doesn't quite add up for me (I've probably known the most drug addicts who had a sun sign in the last 4--however they were all rising fire or air signs).

Anyway, thanks for all the answers to everyone! Very informative.... :)

The Sun is not that important unless it is particularly highlighted. Plus: siderealism. Where would their Suns be then? One sign back, and the signs before the last 4 are coincidentally the 1st 4, since Fire signs come before Earth signs and Gemini comes before Cancer. Hmm...

But no one should listen to me. This is not based on observation of people I know but just on raw psychology applied to planets based on their fundamental properties (i.e. Venus is moderately cold and moist) rather than their dogmatic effects (i.e. Venus is the planet of sensuality.)
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Rebel Uranian. Where did you get your lists from? They don't fit very closely with my experience of people's charts, especially Moon, Neptune, Pisces, Cancer being so low on the list.

I think that someone with a strong Saturn and a strong Neptune at the same time is often more likely to get addicted than someone with a strong Neptune and weak Saturn. Without the strong Saturn one can ignore the world, but with it one is overwhelmed by practical demands and limitations, and needs to escape them.

Neptune contacting Mars and/or Saturn can give a sense of not being able to cope with defining and defending oneself and so escapism can also arise from these aspects, especially if the addict has the secondary gain of controlling others through their addiction.

Extreme escapism isn't necessary, I would say, when life doesn't intrude on our fantasy world more than we can cope with.

Someone said above that the twelfth house must be heavily tennanted or have difficult aspects for addiction to occur. I haven't found this to be the case.
 

sequestra

Well-known member
I think that someone with a strong Saturn and a strong Neptune at the same time is often more likely to get addicted than someone with a strong Neptune and weak Saturn. Without the strong Saturn one can ignore the world, but with it one is overwhelmed by practical demands and limitations, and needs to escape them.

That makes A LOT of sense; great insight.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
@miquar - Basically, the lists were determined based solely on the hotness/extraversion of the planets and signs, since when I was looking for personality traits that correlated with drug abuse, extraversion was the only one, and it's such a fundamental part of astrology in the form of the hot/cold property. I cited all my sources, which were Wikipedia and Skyscript. What I didn't cite was that wet planets and signs were automatically worse for drug abuse than dry ones since wet ones are more movable and a little more likely to want stimulation or to change according to other people, but the planetary domicile of a sign on the planetary list was more important than the sign's wet/dry quality even though it was less important than the sign's hot/cold quality.

Temperaments/elements:
1. Sanguine/Air - hot and wet - hot = extraverted, wet = moldable
2. Choleric/Fire - hot and dry - hot = extraverted, dry = un-moldable
3. Phlegmatic/Water - cold and wet - cold = introverted, wet = moldable
4. Melancholic/Earth - cold and dry - cold = introverted, dry = un-moldable


Planets:
1. Jupiter - Only hot and wet planet.
2. Sun - Strongest of the hot and dry planets, being a luminary.
3. Mars - Less distinctively hot and dry, since it's not a luminary.
4. Mercury - Naturally slightly cold and dry, but this can change based on its conjunctions, plus Mercury is considered really flitty. It can move around on this list a lot depending on what it is conjunct, but as-is, it's smack in the middle.
4.3 Uranus - All planets past Saturn are predominantly cold, but Uranus is predominantly melancholic and secondarily sanguine, temperaments which cancel each other out, and sanguine is the temperament most prone to drug abuse. It's still predominantly cold, but not nearly as much as any of the other permanently cold planets.
4.6 Pluto - Melancholic/choleric, so it's a little better.
5. Venus - Venus is moderately cold and moist.
6. Moon - The Moon is a luminary, and thus is strongly cold and moist, but it is more changeable due to its fast speed and it is wet rather than dry.
6.5 Neptune - Neptune is melancholic/phlegmatic. It is the other melancholic 100% cold planet besides Saturn. However, it does have some wetness to it, so still not better than Saturn. It is slower, but that only serves as a tie breaker.
7. Saturn - "Ice cold and bone dry." Also very slow, so not much stimulation here.

Signs:
1. Sagittarius - hot, the domicile of Jupiter, dry
2. Leo - hot, the domicile of the Sun, dry
3. Aries - hot, the domicile of Mars, dry
4. Gemini - hot, the domicile of Mercury, wet
5. Libra - hot, the domicile of Venus, wet
6. Aquarius - hot, the domicile of Saturn, wet
7. Pisces - cold, the domicile of Jupiter, wet
8. Scorpio - cold, the domicile of Mars, wet
9. Virgo - cold, the domicile of Mercury, dry
10. Taurus - cold, the domicile of Venus, dry
11. Cancer - cold, the domicile of the Moon, wet
12. Capricorn - cold, the domicile of Saturn, dry

All hot signs come before all cold signs, and are placed in order based on where their planetary rulers fall on the planetary list. I consider signs to own the planets in them, not planets to own the signs they rule. If Jupiter were in Libra, then that'd be double sanguine and would be worse than Mars in Sagittarius, but Jupiter is stronger in Sagittarius than it is in Libra and it is stronger in Sagittarius than Mars is in Sagittarius, so Sagittarius still ranks higher generally.

Now, try moving everyone's chart back a sign to correlate with sidereal astrology. All the Water signs become Air signs, which as I pointed out was the worst element for drug abuse (Fire signs only rank higher on the sign, not element list due to the fact that all the Air signs have cold rulers.)

Edit: Here are 3 lists. The basic principles are the same, but the priority, or amount of influence of each one more or less than the others and therefore before or after the others, of those principles changes the sign order significantly. Someone, please test out each one of them and see which one fits the best scientifically. I actually think it's the second one now.

Priorities: Hot/cold, Domicile rank on planet list, Wet/dry

1. Sagittarius - hot, the domicile of Jupiter, dry
2. Leo - hot, the domicile of the Sun, dry
3. Aries - hot, the domicile of Mars, dry
4. Gemini - hot, the domicile of Mercury, wet
5. Libra - hot, the domicile of Venus, wet
6. Aquarius - hot, the domicile of Saturn, wet
7. Pisces - cold, the domicile of Jupiter, wet
8. Scorpio - cold, the domicile of Mars, wet
9. Virgo - cold, the domicile of Mercury, dry
10. Taurus - cold, the domicile of Venus, dry
11. Cancer - cold, the domicile of the Moon, wet
12. Capricorn - cold, the domicile of Saturn, dry


Priorities: Hot/cold, Wet/dry, Domicile rank on planet list

1. Gemini - hot, wet, domicile of Mercury
2. Libra - hot, wet, domicile of Venus
3. Aquarius - hot, wet, domicile of Saturn
4. Sagittarius - hot, dry, domicile of Jupiter
5. Leo - hot, dry, domicile of the Sun
6. Aries - hot, dry, domicile of Mars
7. Pisces - cold, wet, domicile of Jupiter
8. Scorpio - cold, wet, domicile of Mars
9. Cancer - cold, wet, domicile of the Moon
10. Virgo - cold, dry, domicile of Mercury
11. Taurus - cold, dry domicile of Venus
12. Capricorn - cold, dry, domicile of Saturn


Priorities: Domicile rank on planet list, Hot/cold, Wet/dry

1. Sagittarius - domicile of Jupiter, hot, dry
2. Pisces - domicile of Jupiter, cold, wet
3. Leo - domicile of the Sun, hot, dry
4. Aries - domicile of Mars, hot, dry
5. Scorpio - domicile of Mars, cold, wet
6. Gemini - domicile of Mercury, hot, wet
7. Virgo - domicile of Mercury, cold, dry
8. Libra - domicile of Venus, hot, wet
9. Taurus - domicile of Venus, cold, dry
10. Cancer - domicile of Moon, cold, wet
11. Aquarius - domicile of Saturn, hot, wet
12. Capricorn - domicile of Saturn, cold, dry
 
Last edited:

serafin5

Well-known member
Substance abuse, astrologically, can be attributed to many factors.

Neptune powerful (on an Angle, for example) can be an indicator, because Neptune symbolizes "other-worldliness, dream states, hallucination, dependency in any form, escapism, and anesthesia -- which is not feeling pain."

Venus of course shows "sensuality", which can mean habitually turning to what pleases the body, what makes us feel good.

Moon, symbol of irrationality, lunacy, and long before Neptune came along, was the indicator of dependent states and flight from responsibility.

But then Jupiter shows excesses of all sorts. Saturn shows isolation and depression. Mars shows anger and a need for excitement. Mercury challenged by Uranus creates states of chronic nervous tension. And down the list we go.

So.... We can't ascribe substance abuse or drug dependency to any single chart factor. As with everything else we have to study the whole chart and see where that leads us.

If we consider the map of the sky before us to also be a map of the psyche of the person, and if we agree that the human mind literally creates its own world and destiny...

Then the state of the psyche determines the destiny. Out of the psyche flows the fate. As Heraclitus said, Character is destiny.

Fully half of the population of the United States uses, on a regular basis, some form of mind-altering drug, whether legal or illegal. Alcohol is most certainly a drug. What is the percentage of school chidren diagnosed as hyperactive or whatever and made into drug addicts by our doctors, with the support of society? How many people do you know who habitually use pain killers, medicines to combat anxiety or depression, diet pills, etc? I used to drive taxicab, and the first time I took a passenger to a meth clinic (where heroin addicts get their daily breakfast of orange juice) I was flabbergasted by the number of people going in and out of the clinic. Who here has not tried marijuana (although few of us have ever inhaled)? Drug abuse (addiction) is not a rarity, it is a commonplace. The clue lies in the fact that people talk about "my meds", a very familiar term, nice and cozy...not medicine,or drugs, but meds.

We must understand what it is in the psychological makeup that drives a person to use drugs, and the causes are many, as reflected in the descriptions of planets above.

This society has produced a generation of people who will do ANYTHING to avoid feeling pain in any form. Sadly, pain is both necessary and useful. People who flee from pain are foolish people.

When I was 11 years old I decided I would learn to speak Spanish. When I was 27 I moved to Mexico, not yet speaking Spanish. I realized that if I spoke one word of English it would delay, if not prevent, learning Spanish. So I refused to speak any English, and avoided all people who spoke it. So I didn't speak Spanish well, and did not allow myself to speak English. Human beings have a very deep and vital need to communicate with other people; it is a basic need. So this was the loneliest time of my entire life, a painful loneliness. I was effectively cut off from other people. And then one night I woke up and saw that I had been dreaming in Spanish. My unconscious mind had accepted Spanish as its own; I had given it no choice. The pain of that loneliness created the psychic energy that pushed me over the threshold of fluency.

I was on the swimming team in high school. The daily workouts caused severe physical pain. I have literally had muscle cramps from my head to my toes over extended periods of time. You face the pain, look to the goal, go through the pain to the other side of it, and transcend it. In the process you become stronger, and move closer to perfection and excellence.

The Twelfth House is the house of bondage, self-destructive actions.... It is the radical chart which determines such things as addictions. Transits may indicate the onset, but the radix is the determinant.

Hi Greybeard:

At the risk of my anonymity, I would like to say, as a drug addict, that your post was well written and I think that you are mostly right too. And I have been foolish, but like the saying goes you haven't walked a mile in my shoes so you dont really know why I became what I became. I only know that the road has been long and hard and in order to keep the sobriety I have today I have to continually give it away so if this post helps just one person than I have done well. My bday is posted under my signature as my laptop is sick and it is hard to post my chart, you guys can look as my chart as an example of a real addict. As you can see, I am not ashamed of what I've done and who I am I only know that I can look at myself in the mirror every morning and know that I always try to do/be my best (I am still working on a temper issue).

Sincerely,
Serafin5
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Rebel Uranian. Thanks for laying that out in such detail. I think it's too foreign to my entrenched ways of conceptualising the signs for me to get to grips with it or make use of it. But you clearly know your way around the system. If you want to give a demonstration of interpreting a chart using this approach I'd be happy to have mine looked at from a different perspective, but if you are into the idea, would you be willing to do it using tropical signs so that it bares some relation to the astrology I'm used to? I really couldn't conceive of myself as not having a Scorpio Moon or an Aquarius Sun or Mercury.
 
Top