Is Pluto an astrological planet?

emily23

Well-known member
in depth psychology is not new :smile:
Im sure, but what was the planet then signifyng it?
The ideas of quantum physics are reflections of ancient philosophies
Scientists were inspired by the ancients

Honestly!
the ancients were aware of the existence of 'hidden causes'
But they had no way to describe them
Those 'certain things' happened at a time when the seven visible planets
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn were making aspects :smile:




Mundane world events are described by the seven traditional planets

Not always, how would you describe the atom bomb without pluto?

I would love only the traditional planets to describe everything, makes life easier, Im not one of the people who consider loads of asteroids and stuff or to think a natal saturn pluto aspect means something personal but to think Saturn is the end is your perogative...it isnt keeping up though...so tell me, which planet signifies electricity traditionally?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Not always, how would you describe the atom bomb without pluto?

I would love only the traditional planets to describe everything, makes life easier,
Then Learn Traditional astrology
Im not one of the people who consider loads of asteroids and stuff or to think a natal saturn pluto aspect means something personal
but to think Saturn is the end is your perogative..
.it isnt keeping up though...
s
o tell me, which planet signifies electricity traditionally?
so if you are interested to learn how to 'describe the atom bomb without dwarf planet pluto' :smile:
as well as 'which planet signifies electricity traditionally'
then I recommend
TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY FOR TODAY by Benjamin Dykes
http://www.bendykes.com/tafortoday.php
 

emily23

Well-known member
i
Then Learn Traditional astrology

so if you are interested to learn how to 'describe the atom bomb without dwarf planet pluto' :smile:
as well as 'which planet signifies electricity traditionally'
then I recommend
TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY FOR TODAY by Benjamin Dykes
http://www.bendykes.com/tafortoday.php

I got my basic astrology certificate with the mayo school back in the 1980s, all traditional, and I dont remember reading abut uranus neptune and pluto but neither do I remember reading about the atom bomb for example

Instead of directing me to a book which i have to buy and read, why not just tell me which traditional planet rules electricity, let me guess, mercury??

I get the sense you get annoyed with all the new stuff in astrology. I do too, as I said before, I have no time for asteroids and stuff like that, as if anyone has a handle on all that we have already, but I dont understand how you can discount the outer planets totally

As for"dwarf planet pluto" bet you couldnt say that before it was declared one :D

Besides, Uranus and Neptune are huge...are you saying their being in our solar system and such big planets means nothng n astrology?
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure the Mayo School wasn't teaching texts solely in Latin and Greek in the 1980s. If you were reading in English, the only available texts were Ptolemy, Manilius, and lesser-known, Bonatti's considerations.

Were those what you studied that you're calling traditional astrology? Or was it something else?

I started with Margaret Hone's Textbook of Modern Astrology, which mentioned triplicities, but realistically, it wasn't even close to traditional astrology.
 

emily23

Well-known member
Well if Mayo and Hone arent traditional enough then Im not sure I want to know


If youre into Ptolemy original texts fine, but that was thiusands of years ago, the worlds moved on Nd new planets have been discovered and enriched astrology though there has to be a limit I agree

I have no problem either way, just dont tell me interpreting uranus is a load of cobblers..I mean where is it written in stone the world and understanding ends at Saturn?

oh yes I know, Saturn, the limit, so tell me oddity, in traditional astrology who is it that breaks barriers?

Im sorry Oddity I wasnt meant to be argumentative, I just dont understand the real problem here
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
No problem, just that many people believe they've studied traditional astrology and what they mean is they've studied Alan Leo, Rudhyar, Margaret Hone, Charles Carter.

That's theosophical astrology. The traditional stuff goes way back, and pretty much the tail end of it was in the late 1600s, though there are a few texts after that era.

Traditionally, Mars breaks barriers. It's one of the things the planet is known for. The theosophists reassigned that attribute (and many others) to Uranus, and the other outer planets got their meanings, again, by taking them away from the classical planets. They also said Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury. Go figure.

It's just a lot of people say they've studied traditional astrology, and when you query, they haven't, even though they believe they have. Which may be why so many folks are biased against it. I'm not sure.
 

emily23

Well-known member
No problem, just that many people believe they've studied traditional astrology and what they mean is they've studied Alan Leo, Rudhyar, Margaret Hone, Charles Carter.

That's theosophical astrology. The traditional stuff goes way back, and pretty much the tail end of it was in the late 1600s, though there are a few texts after that era.

Traditionally, Mars breaks barriers. It's one of the things the planet is known for. The theosophists reassigned that attribute (and many others) to Uranus, and the other outer planets got their meanings, again, by taking them away from the classical planets. They also said Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury. Go figure.

It's just a lot of people say they've studied traditional astrology, and when you query, they haven't, even though they believe they have. Which may be why so many folks are biased against it. I'm not sure.

Yes, I thought traditional astrology meant astrology used up to Saturn and thngs like parts of fortune etc.

Theosophcal astrology?? Well I never!! I never knew that! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. The Theosophists??? When did they get the time to interpret a whole school of learning such as astrology? I dont feel well now knowing some obscure occult group passing through history for a short while has been the basis of my astro education!!

Begs the question how meanings for the newer planets were derived.

Oh c r a p!
 
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urano

Well-known member
The state of astrology in my country isn’t very good because we haven’t good books in french. In english more books are available, some good, some bad, but there are available.
For example Morin de Villefranche, the great french astrologer, is available only in latin!
Actually, in my country, what we call "Traditional astrology" isn't pre-1700 astrology but post-1945 astrology. It isn’t an exaggeration!
About Pluto, presently we know it isn’t a planet and an error was made using it. For me it’s okay, I accept.
Probably in one generation more people will accept too. Am I a forerunner? :smile:
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
Theosophcal astrology?? Well I never!! I never knew that! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. The Theosophists??? When did they get the time to interpret a whole school of learning such as astrology? I dont feel well now knowing some obscure occult group passing through history for a short while has been the basis of my astro education!!

Begs the question how meanings for the newer planets were derived.

Oh c r a p!

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, Alan Leo was a theosophist and a horary astrologer. He was competent, and got busted a few times under England's anti-fortune telling laws. So...he invented the new 'character analysis' astrology and sun sign astrology.

His fellow theosophists loved it, of course, all the stuff about having an evolved soul was pretty much all the same stuff as being an upper middle class white British guy. And so it grew.

A brief bio of Leo and how this all came about can be found here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/Alan_Leo.html

Happy reading.
 

Carlos23

Banned
Pluto is an astrological planet. (Astronomical no; because it is not big enough. But astronomers are Fleetspipes! Majorly.)
:bandit:
C-A-R-L-O-S
**
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
i
I got my basic astrology certificate with the mayo school back in the 1980s, all traditional,
and I dont remember reading abut uranus neptune and pluto
but neither do I remember reading about the atom bomb for example
As Oddity has explained, the Mayo School, Margaret Hone, Charles Carter et al are not traditional
Instead of directing me to a book which i have to buy and read,

why not just tell me which traditional planet rules electricity, let me guess, mercury??
Because it is a very good book http://www.bendykes.com/tafortoday.php



roman-greek-gods-2-638.jpg


12-roman-godsgoddesses-2-728.jpg


the-gods-the-creation-and-the-earliest-10-638.jpg

I get the sense you get annoyed with all the new stuff in astrology. I do too, as I said before,
I have no time for asteroids and stuff like that, as if anyone has a handle on all that we have already,
but I dont understand how you can discount the outer planets totally
There are more than one hundred and fifty million asteroids in our solar system
so there are approximately forty-two thousand asteroids crowding each degree of any natal chart :smile:

As for"dwarf planet pluto" bet you couldnt say that before it was declared one :D

There may be as many as fifty dwarf planets in our solar system

Besides, Uranus and Neptune are huge...
are you saying their being in our solar system and such big planets means nothng n astrology?
Not to traditional astrologers
Well if Mayo and Hone arent traditional enough then Im not sure I want to know
If youre into Ptolemy original texts fine, but that was thiusands of years ago, the worlds moved on
Nd new planets have been discovered and enriched astrology though there has to be a limit I agree

I have no problem either way, just dont tell me interpreting uranus is a load of cobblers..
I mean where is it written in stone the world and understanding ends at Saturn?

oh yes I know, Saturn, the limit, so tell me oddity, in traditional astrology who is it that breaks barriers?
Im sorry Oddity I wasnt meant to be argumentative, I just dont understand the real problem here
Yes, I thought traditional astrology meant astrology used up to Saturn and thngs like parts of fortune etc.

Theosophcal astrology?? Well I never!! I never knew that! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. The Theosophists??? When did they get the time to interpret a whole school of learning such as astrology? I dont feel well now knowing some obscure occult group passing through history for a short while has been the basis of my astro education!!

Begs the question how meanings for the newer planets were derived.

Oh c r a p!
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Traditional Astrology for Today is also available as an ebook, cheaper. Or if you have a kindle subscription, you can read it for free.

It's worth your time.
 

waybread

Well-known member
This thread has gone on for so long that the meaning of Pluto in the chart is probably buried and forgotten.

Again, if any traditional astrologers do not wish to use Pluto, that's fine. However, their personal preferences are no reason for anybody else not to use Pluto. Fans and onlookers of traditional astrology who do not read charts for people, trying out the modern outers, are in a weak position to argue for or against Pluto's utility in chart-reading.

The "overlap" problem is not a problem.

Planets' and sensitive points' meanings do overlap in both traditional modern and western astrology. Arabian parts would be one example. House and planet or sign overlap (especially in traditional medical astrology) would be another. So if you don't wish to use Pluto, don't use Pluto; but in any type of astrology, repetition of testimonies is a good thing. It means you've got something.

Pluto transits are really meaningful. To me, this is an important reason to keep Pluto. If you find yourself thrown into an existential despair despite your externalities looking good, and with no history of depression, see what Pluto is doing in your chart.

Positive natal Pluto: your capacity for self-transformation. Your ability to gain strength from foundational upheaval in your life. Think of the phoenix. Ambition that doesn't quit in the face of feeling hurt or defeated.

Negative natal Pluto: Power struggles, ruthlessness, either expressed by the native or experienced by the native in others. Ambition that doesn't care who gets hurt in the process-- or that even enjoys registering hurtful power over other people. Pluto is sufficiently strong that some people fear and deny its role in their personalities. A repressed chart will "out", however, so that Pluto unsurprisingly shows up as other people who bully, dominate, or suppress the "nice" native. Then the nice person's need is to reincorporate Pluto into his own sense of self.

Either: intensity, a willingness or inadvertent requirement to experience life at its worst, and to find meaning nonetheless.

There are entire cookbooks on Pluto in the natal chart, notably in aspect. The only books on Pluto I personally don't care for are of the evolutionary, psycho-spiritual variety: Pluto has material consequences in people's lives.

On the whole, a Pluto trine goes easier than a Pluto opposition or square; but some sun trine Pluto and sun sextile people actually enjoy (3-series) dominating other people.

Pluto is one of the planets of the subconscious. Bullies are not always aware of their actual motives and rationales for trying to dominate other people. The meek daughter of an abusive father may not understand why her marriage to an abusive man somehow feels right. Pluto can be secretive, working in the dark and under cover.

By transit: Pluto metaphorically kills off what is "dead" or "dying" in your life, so that ultimately you can realize newer, deeper meanings, and more productive new growth can take place.

Resistance is futile.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't recall if I posted the chart of Marie Curie-- one of the pioneers of research into radiation (a term she coined,) and 2x Nobel Prize winner. Her research was highly influential in the development of x-rays, notably to assist doctors treating wounded soldiers during WW I. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie

Pluto is the modern ruler of radioactive substances.

(Is there a traditional ruler??)

I might mention that Curie's death was attributed to radiation poisoning: her surviving effects are still radioactive. No one in her day understood radiation's risks.

So I've got it here twice. (Rodden AA rating.) First is her modern chart. Note her "kite" formation pointing to Pluto conjunct her P of F. Second is her traditional chart, minus the modern outers.

In what way does a traditional reading better describe Curie's path-breaking scientific achievements?
 

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waybread

Well-known member
Pluto is an astrological planet.

Many of your own posts stray from the OP.


(p.s., see Star Trek, TNG for your next photos.)
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
This thread has gone on for so long
that the meaning of Pluto in the chart is probably buried and forgotten.

This thread is not concerned with the meaning of dwarf planets in natal charts
:smile:
Again, if any traditional astrologers do not wish to use Pluto, that's fine. However, their personal preferences are no reason for anybody else not to use Pluto. Fans and onlookers of traditional astrology who do not read charts for people, trying out the modern outers, are in a weak position to argue for or against Pluto's utility in chart-reading.

The "overlap" problem is not a problem.

Planets' and sensitive points' meanings do overlap in both traditional modern and western astrology. Arabian parts would be one example. House and planet or sign overlap (especially in traditional medical astrology) would be another. So if you don't wish to use Pluto, don't use Pluto; but in any type of astrology, repetition of testimonies is a good thing. It means you've got something.

Pluto transits are really meaningful. To me, this is an important reason to keep Pluto. If you find yourself thrown into an existential despair despite your externalities looking good, and with no history of depression, see what Pluto is doing in your chart.

Positive natal Pluto: your capacity for self-transformation. Your ability to gain strength from foundational upheaval in your life. Think of the phoenix. Ambition that doesn't quit in the face of feeling hurt or defeated.

Negative natal Pluto: Power struggles, ruthlessness, either expressed by the native or experienced by the native in others. Ambition that doesn't care who gets hurt in the process-- or that even enjoys registering hurtful power over other people. Pluto is sufficiently strong that some people fear and deny its role in their personalities. A repressed chart will "out", however, so that Pluto unsurprisingly shows up as other people who bully, dominate, or suppress the "nice" native. Then the nice person's need is to reincorporate Pluto into his own sense of self.

Either: intensity, a willingness or inadvertent requirement to experience life at its worst, and to find meaning nonetheless.

There are entire cookbooks on Pluto in the natal chart, notably in aspect. The only books on Pluto I personally don't care for are of the evolutionary, psycho-spiritual variety: Pluto has material consequences in people's lives.

On the whole, a Pluto trine goes easier than a Pluto opposition or square; but some sun trine Pluto and sun sextile people actually enjoy (3-series) dominating other people.

Pluto is one of the planets of the subconscious. Bullies are not always aware of their actual motives and rationales for trying to dominate other people. The meek daughter of an abusive father may not understand why her marriage to an abusive man somehow feels right. Pluto can be secretive, working in the dark and under cover.

By transit: Pluto metaphorically kills off what is "dead" or "dying" in your life, so that ultimately you can realize newer, deeper meanings, and more productive new growth can take place.
None of that concerns the topic of this thread
and is irrelevant
the topic of this thread is:

Whether dwarf planet pluto is or is not 'an astrological planet?'



Resistance is futile



borg-poster.jpg


076c6c5731df8556a92e379bf12a986e56ce104abff146b8e6a2485a9f9991fe.jpg


I don't recall if I posted the chart of Marie Curie-- one of the pioneers of research into radiation (a term she coined,) and 2x Nobel Prize winner. Her research was highly influential in the development of x-rays, notably to assist doctors treating wounded soldiers during WW I. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie

Pluto is the modern ruler of radioactive substances.

(Is there a traditional ruler??)

I might mention that Curie's death was attributed to radiation poisoning: her surviving effects are still radioactive. No one in her day understood radiation's risks.

So I've got it here twice. (Rodden AA rating.) First is her modern chart. Note her "kite" formation pointing to Pluto conjunct her P of F. Second is her traditional chart, minus the modern outers.

In what way does a traditional reading better describe Curie's path-breaking scientific achievements?
Irrelevant
The question asked by the OP is whether dwarf planet pluto is an astrological planet
AND NOT
the interpretation of dwarf planets in natal chart

Pluto is an astrological planet.

Duh uh.

(p.s., see Star Trek, TNG for your next photos.)
Present your reasoning as to what makes dwarf planet pluto an astrological planet
Locutus.

Very Plutonian.
Example of the use of the word 'PLUTONIAN' :smile:


'.....the rows of abandoned, boarded-up tenement houses made for a rather plutonian landscape....'
 
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