How to delineate the chart of twins?

Hey Guys,

Not sure if I've posted this in the right forum, but I was wondering if anyone here has experience in delineating natal charts of twins?

How does one go about this?

If it's boy/girl twins would one use the Sun to signify the boy and the Moon to signfy the girl?

I have boy/girl twins and they were born 2 minutes apart, so other than a few differerences in the seconds of the degrees, their charts are of course identical...

Any input is much appreciated

AtomsInPlace said:

Hey Guys,

Not sure if I've posted this in the right forum,
but I was wondering if anyone here has experience in delineating natal charts of twins?

How does one go about this?

If it's boy/girl twins
would one use the Sun to signify the boy and the Moon to signfy the girl?

I have boy/girl twins
and they were born 2 minutes apart,
so other than a few differerences in the seconds of the degrees,
their charts are of course identical...

Any input is much appreciated

Click to expand...

TWINS detailed discussion at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=550235#post550235

tsmall said:

Here are the charts of twins born about a minute apart
with the same ascending degree.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Birney,_Peter

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Birney,_Mollie

Click to expand...

HOWEVER

as dr. farr explains:

dr. farr said:

Right: even down to 1 minute,

there will be subtle chart differences

found by application of the various techniques I mentioned:

UNDER 1 minute, then recourse to Vedic D120 analysis,
or to swara considerations, would have to be done.

Click to expand...

sworm09 said:

Ok, so I'd expect predictive techniques to show the same events at the same time
in the same order.

Click to expand...

but dr. farr explains how such an assumption would be unwarranted

dr. farr said:

However, such an assumption would be unwarranted:
eg,

1) the ascendant Pauline dodek would be 26 minutes, different, in the twins charts referenced above, giving 2 +degrees Aries for one (monomoiria ruler = Venus) and 3 degrees Aries for the other (monomoiria ruler = Mercury)

2) in case of the SAME ascending degree in twins' birthcharts, one would look at the monomoiria ruler of the DODEK PLACE of the ascending degrees (rather than when there is a difference of 1 or more degrees of the ascending degrees, in which case the monomoiria ruler of the ascending degrees, rather than that of the DODEK, would be used, as I did in the example of Courtcam01, in an earlier posting)

3) same with the use of the MC, relative to its monomoiria degree ruler: in the reference charts the MC Pauline dodek would be different, in the 2 charts, so the MC monomoiria rulers of the MC would be different for each of the twins.

(while the above methods are from the Traditional Western stream, I will just mention here in passing that Vedic astrology would have no problem in differentiating charts even to less than 1 minute seperation in time, using D120 charts, and amsa sub-sub-sub time divisions)

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dr. farr said:

Making extensive use of the finer subdivisions
(duodenaries, terms, monomoiria)
and extensive use of dodekatemorion ramifications,
will indicate differences, often of a significant nature
(much as jyotish uses higher varga charts, such as the D60 and D120, and amsa's, for such purposes)
-and this is without having recourse to the more speculative techniques
such as pre-natal epoch
(or the more esoteric field in Vedic of swara shastra)

Click to expand...

and here's an example similar to your own
of twins charts athat are separated by just 2 minutes of time

dr. farr said:

A very brief example of the application of one of the principles I mentioned, above, is from the birth charts of AW member Courtcam01 and her sister, seperated by a just 2 minutes of time:
-ascending degree for our AW member = 23Aries50
-for her sister = 24Aries41
Now-looking at ascending-degree ruler (monomoiria dispositor of the ascending degree), our AW member has Venus as ascending degree ruler and her sister has Mercury: note that, while both planets are in signs of their detriment in the birth charts, our AW member ascending degree ruler, Venus, is retrograde and, while conjunct Jupiter, this Venus/Jupiter conjunction is in opposition to Saturn (a planet characterized by its delaying qualities) On the other hand, her sister's ascending degree ruler, Mercury, suffers no such affliction (I shall not discuss its conjunction with Neptune here, since this is not allowed in the Traditional forum)
...so we see in this brief example of the application of just one of the special considerations for closely time/place connected charts I mentioned in my previous post, how subtle but significant potential differences can be brought out even when the birth time difference is a mere 2 minutes.

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Hi AtomsInPlace.

Depending on what techniques you use, you may find some significant differences between the charts. If you have very accurate birth times, and you use midpoints, then the midpoints involving the angles will show up some of the most significant differences.

However, most of the significators you look at will be - for all intents and purposes - identical in both charts. What's interesting about this is that twins tend to polarise with respect to one another, as if trying to find an individual identity that is different from the other, and perhaps to initially try to share the traits/tasks that have fallen to them to live out. So you often find that some of the features shown in the chart will be more evident in one twin, and some in the other.

Obviously gender can be relevant, but best not to assume that where one twin is a boy and the other a girl that the boy will live out the Sun and Mars, while the girl lives out the Moon and Venus. There may be a conflict between Sun and Mars which gets in the way of this, or a conflict between the Moon and Venus. Also, there could be a suggestion in the chart that the Moon and/or Venus are difficult to express comfortably, or that the Sun and/or Mars are. and so both twins could go to the masculine energies or both to the feminine. Or the Moon may be in Aries and the Sun in Cancer, which confuses the distinction between 'masculine and feminine, and so on....

Also, it is relevant whether the family and/or wider culture encourage or discourage gender stereotypes.

When interpreting the chart(s!) of twins its probably best to approach each twin separately, especially once they have started to develop personalities, likes/dislikes, etc. You can still take into account that the there is an extra reason why some of the significators may be favoured over others (i.e. because of the unconscious sharing out of traits by the twins).

Best wishes

Miquar

AtomsInPlace,
I actually have twin girls.....fraternal.
their ASC is 10 Gemini. From the beginning I thought of twinA as having the extra Mercury influence (1st decanate of Gemini is Merc ruled) and her twin,B, I have thought of as having the Venus influence of the 2nd decanate of Gemini which would be the Libra decanate.

This has actually proved accurate. Twin A is sort of an over achiever and Twin B is less assertive and more tolerant and kindly. They are Pisces, so both of them are good women and thoughtful and dutiful.....
but TwinA has been more ambitious. And has been been less shy and more willing to put herself "out there."

However: Psychologically, they are very similar. Not overtly, but "inside."

When they were very young and began fighting, I brought them to a therapist who told me that they were fine....2 sides of the same coin. But she thought that I could use a bit of therapy....LOL.....so I did....and it helped. That was before I was an expert in astrology. But both therapy and astrology has helped understand them and really, all people I've met.
LIN

Hi Lin. That's interesting. Have you looked at midpoints involving angles or the Sabian symbols of their angles?

Best wishes

Miquar

Midpoints .....as compared with who? Or what?
Lin

Hi Lin. Because the orbs used in midpoints are so small, and because the angles move so quickly, there are likely to be some significant differences between the charts of the twins with regard to midpoint contacts involving the angles. For example one twin might have the asc/mc midpoint in aspect to a planet, but this aspect may have been out of orb at the birth of the other twin.

If you want to give me the birth datas by personal message, I'm happy to post the midpoint listings and trees and comment on the differences between them.

Midpoints are a very useful technique when looking at natal charts. Transits of slower moving planets to midpoints can also be very revealing. Anyone interested in learning more about midpoints can read Working with Astrology by Harding and Harvey.

Best wishes

Miquar

Actually they were delivered by Cesarean Section so they are only one minute apart.

My motive for assigning them different decanate planetary dynamics is because their ASC is 10 degrees Gemini...on the cusp of the next decanate.
I was as surprised as anyone to note that it turned out to be pretty accurate as far as their personalities go.

The doctor who delivered them said they were born almost simultaneously. But for the record they used 10:05 and 10:06.

I am wondering if the Original Poster on this thread has any follow up questions....
LIN