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Unread 12-11-2017, 04:06 PM
dylanshreds1 dylanshreds1 is offline
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Masculine and feminine in astrology

♈️Mn♉️Mm♊️Ff♋️Fn♌️Fm♍️Ff♎️Nn♏️Nm♐️Nf♑️Nn♒️Mm♓ ️Mf
The idea for this study began when I became curious about how the astrological signs are broken up into the masculine and feminine energies. When I looked I up I was disappointed to find that in traditional western astrology they are divided along elemental lines, with the fire and air signs being masculine and the water and earth signs being feminine. This seemed not only like it was a quick easy division without any ought, but often didn't make any sense at all. For instance, how could Taurus, a sign symbolized by the bull and characterized by its building skills and structural understanding be considered feminine? And how could Gemini, the sign of communication and vivacity be considered masculine? On top of that, I personally feel (and I think many would agree with me) that gender is a more fluid idea that lies along a spectrum and is not dualistic in nature. Therefore I decided to go back over each sign and determine whether or not they were more masculine, feminine, or a third category, neutral.

Below is my understandings of the natures of each sign and my determinations of whether or not they are masculine, feminine, or neutral, in list format:
Aries ♈ (cardinal, fire) - Traditionally the first sign in astrology, symbolized by the ram, it marks the beginning of spring and is the sign of the seed of spring, and of leaders and motivators. Based on this I determined Aries to be a masculine sign.
Taurus ♉️ (fixed, earth) - Taurus is the sign of the stock of the plant or trunk of the tree, symbolized by the bull. It is the sign of grounding and practicality, and of material or physical pleasure. Based on this I determined Taurus to be a masculine sign.
Gemini ♊️ (mutable, air) - Gemini is the sign of the two within one, symbolized by the twins. It is the sign of communication, brilliance, gregariousness, and vivacity. Based on this I determined Gemini to be a feminine sign.
Cancer ♋️ (cardinal, water) - Cancer is the sign of emotions, symbolized by the crab, and it marks the beginning of summer. It is the sign of intuition, sensitivity, family, and home. Based on this I determined cancer to be a feminine sign.
Leo ♌️ (fixed, fire) - Leo is the sign of admiration, symbolized by the lion. It is the sign of performance, decoration, warmth, regality, and anything that will get it attention. Based on this I determined Leo to be a feminine sign.
Virgo ♍️ (mutable, earth) - Virgo is the sign of attention to detail, symbolized by the virgin. It is the sign humanism, of tenderness, and care. Based on this I determined Virgo to be a feminine sign.
Libra ♎️ (cardinal, air) - Libra is the sign of balance, symbolized by the scales of justice, and it marks the beginning of autumn. It is the sign of harmony, peace, order, and pleasing others. Based on this I determined Libra to be a neutral sign.
Scorpio ♏️ (fixed, water) - Scorpio is the sign of mystery symbolized by the scorpion. It is the sign of poisons and medicines, of charm and danger. Based on this I determined Scorpio to be a neutral sign.
Sagittarius ♐️ (mutable, fire) - Sagittarius is the sign of travel symbolized by the centaur and the arrow of time. It is the sign of philosophy, adventure, and change. Based on this I determined Sagittarius to be a neutral sign.
Capricorn ♑️ (cardinal, earth) - Capricorn is the sign of a strong foundation, symbolized by the goat, and it marks the beginning of winter. It is the sign of determination, practicality and ambition. Based on this I determined Capricorn to be a neutral sign.
Aquarius ♒️ (fixed, air) - Aquarius is the sign of rationale, symbolized by the water bearer. It is the sign of reason, truth, and selfless contribution to the group. Based on this I determined Aquarius to be a masculine sign.
Pisces ♓️ (mutable, water) - Pisces is the sign of the hidden realms, symbolized by the fish. It is the sign of spirituality, diversity, and friendship. Based on this I determined Pisces to be a masculine sign.

At this point I felt pretty good about this because each of the three energies now had one of each element within them, which countered my original grievance with the traditional approach to the masculine and feminine energies in astrology. However I still wasn't totally satisfied with what I had done because I felt that in some instances there was still a prevalence of feminine energy in a sign I had determined to be masculine, a prevalence of masculine energy in a sign I had determined to be feminine, or a prevalence of masculine or feminine energy in signs I had determined to be neutral. That's when i noticed the division of the aspects (cardinal, fixed, or mutable) within the energies. The neutral signs had two cardinal signs, one fixed and one mutable. The masculine signs had two fixed signs, one cardinal, and one mutable. And the feminine signs had two mutable signs, one cardinal and one fixed. It seemed to me then that the cardinal aspect was neutral, the fixed aspect masculine, and the mutable aspect feminine. This made sense as well because the cardinal signs are the leaders of their elements, and a leader should be neutral. The fixed signs are the workers and supporters of their elements, and a laborer should draw on their masculine side. And the mutable signs are the idea generators of their elements and feminine energy is the source of ideas and creativity.

Now when I went back and looked at my divisions they seemed to make even more sense overall. Based on their aspects I assigned them a sub-energy. This is how they looked now:
Aries ♈️ (cardinal, fire) - Main energy is masculine, sub-energy is neutral. Being the sign of the seed with the potential to become a male or a female it should have some neutral energy, and being a fire sign (fire traditionally being considered masculine) it should have something stopping it from going over the top with its masculinity.
Taurus ♉️ (fixed, earth) - Main energy is masculine, sub-energy is masculine. Being the sign of the builder it should be more masculine, and the extra masculine energy helps balance the earth energy traditionally viewed as feminine.
Gemini ♊️ (mutable, air) - Main energy is feminine, sub-energy is feminine. Being the sign of communication it should be more feminine, and the extra feminine energy helps balance the air energy traditionally viewed as masculine.
Cancer ♋️ (cardinal, water) - Main energy is feminine, sub-energy is neutral. Being the sign of home and family it should be neutral, and the neutral energy helps prevent the traditionally viewed feminine water energy from sending it over the top with its femininity.
Leo ♌️ (fixed, fire) - Main energy is feminine, sub-energy is masculine. Being the sign of outward expression it should be more masculine, and the combination of the traditionally viewed masculine fire energy makes it the most masculine of the feminine signs.
Virgo ♍️ (mutable, earth) - Main energy is feminine, sub-energy is feminine. Being the sign of detail and tenderness, it should be the most feminine sign, and the combination of the fixed aspect and the traditionally viewed feminine earth energy make it solidly feminine.
Libra ♎️ (cardinal, air) - Main energy is neutral, sub-energy is neutral. Being the sign of balance it should be extra neutral, and the traditionally viewed masculine air energy helps with the view of Libra as a patron of justice.
Scorpio ♏️ (fixed, water) - Main energy is neutral, sub-energy is masculine. Being the sign of mystery it should have all three energies mixed to add to the mystery, and it's fixed aspect and traditionally viewed feminine water energy provide this.
Sagittarius ♐️ (mutable, fire) - Main energy is neutral, sub-energy is feminine. Being the sign of the traveler it should have all three energies mixed to support the diversity that traveling exposes the traveler to, and it's mutable aspect and traditionally viewed masculine fire energy provide this.
Capricorn ♑️ (cardinal, earth) - Main energy is neutral, sub-energy is neutral. being the sign of foundations it should be mostly neutral, but with some feminine energy to understand the earth it is building its foundation in so that the shifting earth doesn't upset the foundation too much, and it's cardinal aspect and traditionally viewed feminine earth energy provide this.
Aquarius ♒️ (fixed, air) - Main energy is masculine, sub-energy is masculine. Being thing of reason and rationale, it should be the most masculine sign, and the combination of the fixed aspect and he traditionally viewed masculine air energy make it solidly masculine.
Pisces ♓️ (mutable, water) -Main energy is masculine, sub-energy is feminine. Being the sign of spirituality and hidden realms, it should be more feminine, and the combination of the mutable aspect and the traditionally viewed feminine water energy provide this.

Now I felt much better about my divisions of the signs. It created a much more balanced view of astrology to me. I decided to take this idea to individual charts and break them down into their percentages of masculine, feminine, and neutral energy. I devised a method for this based on a concept introduced to be by fellow astrologer I met in Portugal (I would like to reference him by name because it is his idea but I don't have his permission to do so). The idea is this: A human is like a play, and a birth chart is like a program given to the audience before the curtains open. The most important people putting on this play are the Producer, the Director, and the Writer, or the Sun, Rising, and Moon (SRM) respectively. Then next most important people are the main actors, or the visible planets (VP) Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. The next most important people are the extras, or the invisible planets (IP) Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. And finally the last most important people are the crew building sets, making costumes, etc. or the rest (R) of the bodies and points on the chart.* Based on this I assigned each group a number of points and began to do tallies of individual’s charts. With the SRM getting four points each, the VP getting three points each, the IP getting two points each, and the R getting one point each, they end up looking like this:
Dylan Lorenço
22nd of July, 1991, 07:00, Stinson Lake, NH, USA
SRM - 8F, 4N, 0M
VP - 12F, 0N, 3M
IP - 0F, 6N, 0M
R - 2F, 2N, 2M
Totals - 22F, 12N, 5M - (these three numbers put together should always equal 39)
Percentages - 56%F, 31%N, 13%M

When I discovered that my percentages came out to be just how I thought of myself before doing this, I decided to start guessing what the percentages would be for each person I knew before looking at their chart and figuring it out, and I found that almost every time I was spot on, or really close! I also began to notice a trend with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, the planets I identify as the generational planets. A generation will be defined by Pluto which spends 11-32 years in each sign, and that generation will be further subdivided by where Uranus and Neptune are. If we look at where these three planets lie for people of my generation, all three are in neutral planets, meaning people of my generation will all get an automatic 6N points. This seems to correlate with the rise of the gender neutrality and non-conformity movement of the past decade as the individuals of my generation enter into university and the workforce. I decided to go back and look at the last time all three of those planets were in masculine signs (when people born would get an automatic 6M points), and the last time all three were in feminine signs (when people born would get an automatic 6F points) to see if I could notice any correlations with historical movements and events. The last time all three planets were in masculine signs was the 13th of March, 1859 at around 17:04 (I chose Hawaii as the birthplace for my test person when figuring this out because it seemed like the most physically removed place from the rest of the world, and it's close to the equator so the houses won't be as skewed as those born in the farther reaches of the Northern or Southern Hemispheres). People born before and around this time were the ones responsible for the creation of the industrial revolution and for starting the First World War. The last time all three planets were in feminine signs was the 3rd of October, 1942 at around 07:12. People born before and around this time were the ones responsible for the civil rights, anti-war, and counterculture movements.

Another important observation I made was that people with the same or very close to the same percentages of feminine, neutral, and masculine energies seem to have very similar personality types. Is is why I need as many charts as possible, because I believe there might be a key to connecting astrology with things like the Jungian archetypes, or the Myers-Briggs personality types.
However my data here is slightly skewed because most of the people I know are my age. I'm missing a large sample of people much older or younger than me to provide more insight into the generational differences and how they will play out with these ideas.
If you like what you read here please send me your chart! I'm very eager to continue this study, and I'm also very eager for any criticism from other astrologers or anyone in general, even those that deny astrology, I've made this a big part of my life’s work for the past three years and I feel like I have a very rational and logical explanation for how astrology applies to everyone.
Also I am not sure whether to look at how the planets and houses are divided into feminine, neutral, and masculine. I attempted this once with the planets, and was disappointed, maybe only because 3 is not a factor of 10, but I also felt like I was doing too much guesswork and the results were unsatisfying. Perhaps if my Portuguese astrologer friend’s analogy is very accurate, then maybe they shouldn't be broken down further because actors and the stages they act on don't need to be gendered, only the parts they play. Again I invite ideas or criticisms from other astrologers and anyone who believes they have a valid opinion.

*To go more in depth, the signs are then seen as the roles these people take on throughout the play, and the houses are seen as the blocking, or places on stage that people act out their parts on. This is a great method for chart interpretation and makes it easy for amateurs!

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Unread 12-13-2017, 06:49 PM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

I go by this different version, although I still believe in the official astrological alignment of genders in zodiac signs. All signs are both masculine and feminine in some ways. Included are ruler planets - the Moon and Venus are feminine, while the rest are masculine. Some astrologers added Ceres, Eris, Lilith and Sedna, and gave them a feminine label (all named for goddesses).

Aquarius are thought to be the most masculine, but the presence of Uranus and nowadays, Eris, indicates a genderfluid or bigender identity.

And the most feminine, Cancer, like you stated, isn't strictly feminine in its full nature.

Mixed gender or neutral signs: Gemini, Libra and Aquarius (all air). Capricorn is another.

Masculine: Aries, Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Sagittarius.

Feminine: Cancer, Virgo and Pisces.

Aries - MM, Taurus - FM, Gemini - MN, Cancer - FF, Leo - MM, Virgo - FF, Libra - MN, Scorpio - FM, Sagittarius - MM, Capricorn - FN, Aquarius - MN and Pisces - FF.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 12-13-2017, 07:48 PM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

I thought the male/female signs were just quite simply the Active/passive signs, males being the Active, or as in introvert/extrovert.

For instance, how could Taurus, a sign symbolized by the bull and characterized by its building skills and structural understanding be considered feminine?

Because bulls are peaceful and relaxing animals (until they get angry that is) i.e passive/introvert/feminine.
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Unread 12-13-2017, 08:01 PM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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I thought the male/female signs were just quite simply the Active/passive signs, males being the Active, or as in introvert/extrovert.

For instance, how could Taurus, a sign symbolized by the bull and characterized by its building skills and structural understanding be considered feminine?

Because bulls are peaceful and relaxing animals (until they get angry that is) i.e passive/introvert/feminine.
Taurus is Exaltation of the Moon and is ruled by VENUS
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Unread 12-14-2017, 08:08 PM
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Post Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

The mas vs fem signs and their planet rulerships:
6 mas and 6 fem signs. 5 mas planets (the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune), vs 5 fem or partial fem planets (Moon, Mercury, Venus, Uranus and Pluto). I'm going by modern astrology without additions or revisions.

Aries:mas+Mars:mas = 2/2 M
Taurus:fem+Venus:fem = 2/2 F
Gemini:mas+Mercury:fem = 1/1
Cancer:fem+Moon:fem = 2/2 F
Leo:mas+Sun:mas = 2/2 M
Virgo:fem +Mercury:fem = 2/2 F
Libra:mas+Venus:fem = 1/1
Scorpio:fem+Mars:mas = 1/1 or Pluto:fem = 2/2 F
Sagittarius:mas+Jupiter:mas = 2/2 M
Capricorn:fem+Saturn:mas = 1/1
Aquarius:mas+Uranus:fem = 1/1
Pisces:fem+Neptune:mas =1/1
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 12-14-2017, 08:14 PM
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Hi i find this very interesting. Actually i know someone with very similar placements to mine (same sun sign ascendant and so on) and indeed personality is very similiar....even life experiences is very similar! I have both charts and can send it to you if you want 😊
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Unread 02-16-2018, 01:31 AM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

The terms masculine and feminine used commonly to describe a sign, isn't based so much on what we actually consider feminine or masculine. When people talk about this they are referring to if the energy of the sign is expressed internally(feminine) or externally(masculine).

It would make more sense and be much simpler if we stopped using masculine/feminine and began using external/internal.
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

From further reading and study to review my beliefs on what makes someone a masculine vs feminine personality, it has to do with the sun, moon and rising's placements in either a masculine or feminine sign. If the sun and moon each are in Aquarius, 2 masculine points, and the rising is in cancer, 1 feminine = 2 mas/1 fem. The sun represents ego, the moon with emotions and rising is how others view you or your personality (that person regardless of male or female biological sex or gender identity has mas ego and emotions, and gives off a cancer appearance towards others). Is there a way to determine anyone's natal chart to be biologically male or female without being foretold who the person is?
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 01-13-2019, 06:02 AM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

You really have to go back to ancient mythology to understand the traditional gendering of the signs.

Gaia, to the ancient Greeks, was the first primordial Mother Earth. Her husband or partner was Uranus (Ouranos) who personified the sky.

Earth and water are part of the earth's surface. Then air is understandly part of the atmosphere. Fire, too-- burning gas--is like air. Then sunlight is part of the sky.

Ptolemy (150 CE) argued that women were moister than men (I suppose: lactation, menstruation, &c,)and that men physiologically were drier.

Earth, air, fire, and water were the four elements of Aristotle's science.

It wasn't easy to shoe-horn the signs into this gender system. We do get some contradictions. Taurus the bull is male, but the sign is ruled by Venus. Scorpio, as a water sign, is feminine, but it is traditionally ruled by Mars.

I think the main way that these signs' elements and genders entered into traditional astrology was whether someone had a day or a night chart.
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

Quote:
It wasn't easy to shoe-horn the signs into this gender system. We do get some contradictions. Taurus the bull is male, but the sign is ruled by Venus. Scorpio, as a water sign, is feminine, but it is traditionally ruled by Mars.
The Bull and the Goat-Horned One have their male organs cut off, the other four feminine signs are either missing or do not have them big enough to be noticed, compared to the Ram, Twins, Lion, the person holding the Scales, Archer and Water-Pourer. It seems to me an apparent visual thing judged by the constellation, rather than the seasonal reason given by Ptolemy, for if he was correct, we would have a male Maiden and female Ram.
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

A bull's genitals are intact. A castrated bull becomes a steer. The goat-fish's lower body is the fish part. I've not seen any signs portrayed with genital organs but perhaps I'm missing something. In Islamic sects that forbid depiction of the human figure, Aquarius is depicted as an urn.
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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A bull's genitals are intact. A castrated bull becomes a steer.
It is a truncated body by Hellenistic accounts, such as in Ptolemy or Valens. It is not an ox, but simply the Bull without its hind parts (there is actually a myth about this).



Quote:
In Islamic sects that forbid depiction of the human figure, Aquarius is depicted as an urn.
Aquarius is the Water-Pourer. The ''Great Man''. The Arabs always had plenty of human figures, most inherited from the Greeks. So I do not get where you got that (mis?)information. Indians have only a pitcher, but the male figure is implicit, as in Libra.



Quote:
The goat-fish's lower body is the fish part.
Have you ever seen a human-like male organ on the body of a fish?



Source - Bouché-Leclercq, A. (2014). L'astrologie grecque. Cambridge University Press. https://ia802909.us.archive.org/24/i...00boucuoft.pdf

Quote:
I've not seen any signs portrayed with genital organs but perhaps I'm missing something.
It is really hard to image maidens, scorpions, crabs and fishes to have human-size male organs. The constellations can be just female. If they were male, it would also be hard to tell in amphibians and reptiles unless you know what sexual dimorphism you are looking for. They are also clearly missing from the above pictures. Rams, Lions, Horses and Human Males have clear phallic significance contributing to the birth of males. Here is Sagittarius' from Egypt:



And here from Mesopotamia:

Last edited by petosiris; 01-14-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

Sigh.... Petosiris, I have a dry sense of humour. Sometimes too dry.
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Sigh.... Petosiris, I have a dry sense of humour. Sometimes too dry.
I was really being serious. Could the gender of the signs come from the constellations, well absolutely.
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Unread 01-15-2019, 11:51 AM
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Smile Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Sigh.... Petosiris, I have a dry sense of humour. Sometimes too dry.
Lack of Water in your Chart?
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Unread 01-15-2019, 11:54 AM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Sigh.... Petosiris, I have a dry sense of humour.
Sometimes too dry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


Lack of Water in your Chart?
apparently Saturn is cold and dry
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Unread 01-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by capuranusnep View Post
The terms masculine and feminine used commonly to describe a sign, isn't based so much on what we actually consider feminine or masculine. When people talk about this they are referring to if the energy of the sign is expressed internally(feminine) or externally(masculine).

It would make more sense and be much simpler if we stopped using masculine/feminine and began using external/internal.
This is right [IMO]. Yin and Yang explain it as well. A man can be more Yin than a woman, and a woman can be more Yang than a man.
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Unread 01-15-2019, 12:12 PM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post


This is right [IMO]. Yin and Yang explain it as well. A man can be more Yin than a woman, and a woman can be more Yang than a man.
interestingly
the Chinese concept of Yin and Yang
is the concept of CHANGE
i.e.
Ying is continually changing to Yang
while
Yang is continually changing to Yin
and so on ad infinitum
QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM aka Q.E.D.


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Unread 01-15-2019, 12:19 PM
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Smile Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
apparently Saturn is cold and dry
It's taken as a given that the Sun is Masculine and the Moon is Feminine. But in the ancient Norse religion it was the exact reverse. In the first recorded religion, in ancient Sumeria, the Moon was male. In ancient Egypt, the Earth was male, and the Heavens were female.
Astrology as most of us know it was developed by the Greco-Roman cultures, and we pretty much go by those cultural attitudes when it comes to the genders of the Signs and their Rulers.
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Unread 01-15-2019, 12:34 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

There's a blue and red Yin and Yang symbol as well as a black and white.
Interesting that combining those two colors results in purple, the color of rulership in some cutures.

Last edited by david starling; 01-15-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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Unread 01-16-2019, 12:40 PM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

There's a blue and red Yin and Yang symbol

as well as a black and white.

Interesting that combining those two colors

results in purple, the color of rulership in some cutures.

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Unread 09-24-2019, 05:34 AM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

Aquarius is the least masculine of the "male" energy or spirit in the zodiac, and Scorpio the least feminine in terms of "female" energy or spirit. This has to do with the planet Uranus, the modern ruler of Aquarius and theorized to influence Scorpio according to some astrologers. Uranus is what I call a genderfluid/-flux /-queer planet in modern astrology to represent one with mixed/ dual genders.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 09-24-2019, 06:15 AM
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Smile Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

My earnest contention is that the Domicle-ruler of , , is both feminine and yang, as well as the goddess of the Heavens and Muse of astrology. NOT a deposed, neutered, victim of patricide with a modern, made-up name not used by either the Greeks (Ouranos) or Romans (Caelus).

URANIA is Domicile-ruler of the Age of Aquarius. It's not the piddling asteroid so-named--it's the large Planet outside the orbit of Saturn, incorrectly named by male-chauvinist astronomers, which is currently transiting tropical Taurus. Her ancient Egyptian equivalent was Nuit, their goddess of the Heavens.

Last edited by david starling; 09-24-2019 at 06:26 AM.
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Unread 09-24-2019, 06:44 AM
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Smile Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

Genderfluidity is best described astrologically as a combination of the two innermost Planets, Greco-Roman Hermes/Mercury and Aphrodite/Venus. Using the Greek names, the combined form is "hermaphrodite" which describes genderfluidity in both plants and animals.
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Unread 09-25-2019, 04:11 AM
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Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Genderfluidity is best described astrologically as a combination of the two innermost Planets, Greco-Roman Hermes/Mercury and Aphrodite/Venus. Using the Greek names, the combined form is "hermaphrodite" which describes genderfluidity in both plants and animals.
Said by someone with a high concentration of Aqua and Pisces
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