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  #1  
Unread 09-07-2019, 02:23 PM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Astrologers say that Via Combusta is associated with 'malefic' Mars/Saturn energies.

I have Mars and Saturn conjunct in Via Combusta in my natal chart in Scorpio.

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  #2  
Unread 09-07-2019, 04:55 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Don't worry about it. Via Combusta is for horary.

Mars is in his own dominion in Scorpio, empowered. Does he also rule the house he occupies?

Is the conjunction applying or separating? What is the orb?
Are there aspects to other bodies? Is one or the other of the conjunction more impacted, emphasized by these?

There are many other questions that can be asked. The answer to each provides more information (when translated into practical terms) that builds a picture of the conjunction, gives it real-life meaning.

Don't be afraid of your horoscope. It's about your life. Life is good. It's all in your head.

Last edited by greybeard; 09-07-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 09-08-2019, 07:07 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Quote:
Mars is in his own dominion in Scorpio, empowered. Does he also rule the house he occupies?
Scorpio is intercepted in my chart. The house cusp is in Libra.

Quote:
Is the conjunction applying or separating? What is the orb?
Are there aspects to other bodies? Is one or the other of the conjunction more impacted, emphasized by these?
In my natal chart applying but in my secondary progression separating since Mars turned direct. In my life I feel Saturn overpowers Mars.... Even in Scorpio. The orb is 2°40'.

They touch almost everything in my chart. Trine my Moon, sextile my Jupiter, oppose my Mercury, trine my ascendant, quincunx my Sun and Venus, trine my MC.... And square my Part of Fortune.
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  #4  
Unread 09-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Astrologers say that Via Combusta
is associated with 'malefic' Mars/Saturn energies.
I have Mars and Saturn conjunct in Via Combusta
in my natal chart in Scorpio.
The area between 15 Libra and 15 Scorpio
is termed the Via Combusta: 'Fiery Road' or 'Combust Way'
is considered to be a debilitating area
particularly detrimental to the Moon.
Al Biruni wrote of it
"The combust way is the last part of Libra
and the first of Scorpio.
These two signs are not congenial to the Sun and the Moon
on account of the obscurity and ill-luck connected with them
and because each of them is the fall of one of the luminaries.
They also contain the two malefics, the one by exaltation (Libra, Saturn)
the other by house (Scorpio, Mars)."
This may be a very ancient aphorism
originating from the period when 15 Libra
corresponded with the autumn equinox http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/via_combusta.html
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  #5  
Unread 09-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post

Scorpio is intercepted in my chart. The house cusp is in Libra.

In my natal chart applying
but in my secondary progression separating
since Mars turned direct.

In my life I feel Saturn overpowers Mars
.... Even in Scorpio. The orb is 2°40'.
They touch almost everything in my chart.
Trine my Moon, sextile my Jupiter, oppose my Mercury, trine my ascendant
quincunx my Sun and Venus, trine my MC
.... And square my Part of Fortune.
'...All ancient astrologers placed greatest significance upon heliacal risings and settings
and ancient Mesopotamian astrology was also heavily predisposed to
observance of these planetary phenomena.
The Egyptians recorded it more widely
with their attention spread to all stars and constellations.
A star's heliacal setting was envisioned as a form of death
with its period of invisibility regarded as a time of imprisonment
in Duat, the Underworld, a place where it faced a perilous journey
of transformation and renewal.
Its emergence in the east, in its heliacal rising, was hailed
as its rebirth, when it arose refreshed to begin a new life cycle....'


'….With this image in mind we understand derivation of
traditional astrological terms 'combust'
and 'under the Sun's beams' as signifying greatest fear,
imprisonment, impotency or death.
A planet combust was hidden, unable to exert influence
undergoing a state of transformation.
In 13th century text of Guido Bonatus
we see similarity between mythological perspective of Egyptians
and traditional interpretation of combustion.
He explains that a planet combust
has no strength in signification:
The fortunes when combust and under Sun's beams, signify none,
or very little good;
and the infortunes in like case have little or no virtue to signify ill....'
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Unread 09-08-2019, 11:44 AM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

'...Via Combusta spans the signs
where the luminaries experience their 'fall',
which many have pointed to
as source for its malefic reputation.
However, when tropical zodiac was introduced 6th century BC,
Vernal Equinox was not firmly established
but among early degrees of Aries.

Older authorities placed it at 15th degree, so possibly
a symbolic association attached itself
to region extending from 15th degree of Libra,
as the area of the Sun's seasonal 'death' at the Autumn Equinox.

Certainly, name suggests connection with being 'hidden'
and amongst the Egyptians, all connected with
absence from visible world,
(including deceased men and stars disappearing from view,
either by falling beneath the western horizon
or entering into helical setting), were considered to
enter dark, uncharted region of Duat....' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/heritage/egyptians.html
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  #7  
Unread 09-08-2019, 03:52 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

And then there awaits Serpentis, at 19 Scorpio.
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Unread 09-08-2019, 04:14 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Scorpio is intercepted in my chart. The house cusp is in Libra.



In my natal chart applying but in my secondary progression separating since Mars turned direct. In my life I feel Saturn overpowers Mars.... Even in Scorpio. The orb is 2°40'.

They touch almost everything in my chart. Trine my Moon, sextile my Jupiter, oppose my Mercury, trine my ascendant, quincunx my Sun and Venus, trine my MC.... And square my Part of Fortune.
We are considering the radix. So, Mars is intercepted, ultimately applies to Saturn but is Rx at birth, with an orb of -2°40'?

Each and all of these conditions contains a good deal of information about you, and Mars-Saturn. Now comes study of the literature, to see what each of these conditions implies, then synthesis within your own mind.
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Unread 09-09-2019, 10:26 PM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

by the way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post


Combustion isn't the same as the Via Combusta.



Combustion is when a planet is too close to the Sun.

The Via Combusta is a 30° space in the Zodiac and the Moon is afflicted here.

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Unread 09-10-2019, 04:30 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
We are considering the radix. So, Mars is intercepted, ultimately applies to Saturn but is Rx at birth, with an orb of -2°40'?

Each and all of these conditions contains a good deal of information about you, and Mars-Saturn. Now comes study of the literature, to see what each of these conditions implies, then synthesis within your own mind.
Both Mars and Saturn are intercepted. And both are Rx in natal chart. Saturn in 11°Sco 0' and Mars in 13°Sco 42'. So it's an applying aspect. That's why I feel Saturn overpowers Mars even he's in own sign.

My Mars has already turned direct in my progressed chart so they are separating.
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Unread 09-10-2019, 04:31 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
by the way
My Venus is combust in Gemini H12
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  #12  
Unread 09-23-2019, 04:51 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

You read the natal chart as fixed, not progressed.

Mars is either direct or rx in the moment of birth.
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  #13  
Unread 09-23-2019, 07:26 PM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

You read the natal chart as fixed, not progressed.

Mars is either direct or rx in the moment of birth.
i.e.

Mars may also be stationary direct or stationary retrograde at the time of birth
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Unread 09-23-2019, 07:28 PM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post


Astrologers say that Via Combusta is associated with 'malefic' Mars/Saturn energies.
I have Mars and Saturn conjunct in Via Combusta in my natal chart in Scorpio.

an image of chart in question would be useful if available to view
otherwise it's all generalisation
and
generalisation, although notoriously fun
is unreliable
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  #15  
Unread 09-24-2019, 05:05 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
an image of chart in question would be useful if available to view
otherwise it's all generalisation
and
generalisation, although notoriously fun
is unreliable

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  #16  
Unread 09-25-2019, 12:05 AM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Scorpio is intercepted in my chart. The house cusp is in Libra.
Hi helike13,

House systems are relatively new in astrology. If you believe the Zodiac is 27,000 years old, then it's only been in the last 1,500 years or so that house system were used.

Sumerian star lists always begin with Pisces. The last time Earth was in Pisces was 25,000 BCE. That suggests, but doesn't prove, the Zodiac was created around that time.

It's possible the Sumerian created the Zodiac then worked backwards to identify the ages.

Still, that begs the question, "Why Pisces?"

If the Sumerians created the Zodiac during the Age of Taurus, why not work backwards to Taurus and stop? Why keep going to Pisces? Or, why not go beyond Pisces? Did something important happen around 25,000 BCE?

By the time Earth entered Pisces again around Year 0, the Sumerians had been dead and gone for ~1,900 years.

Anyway, you don't really need a house system and the ancients didn't use one. I don't see where they really add anything, except complications.

Quote:
In my natal chart applying but in my secondary progression separating since Mars turned direct.
Progressions were calculated differently than modern astrologers do and they were only used for mundane charts, not personal charts.

Quote:
They touch almost everything in my chart. Trine my Moon, sextile my Jupiter, oppose my Mercury, trine my ascendant, quincunx my Sun and Venus, trine my MC.... And square my Part of Fortune.
You're reading the chart wrong. A slow planet can never aspect a faster planet, unless the slow planet is retrograde.

In your chart, Mercury has separated from the opposition to Mars/Saturn so that is no longer an aspect. Mercury has also separated from Jupiter, so that is not an aspect.

Sun/Venus are inconjunct the Ascendant.

Moon has separated from Jupiter, so that's not an aspect.

Moon is applying in trine to Mercury but separated from the sextile to Saturn and is in trine with retrograde Mars.

Jupiter/Saturn have separated from their opposition/trine and are retrograde moving away from your Ascendant.

Your PoF is at 15*° Leo and Sun/Venus are sextile.

Quote:
Saturn in 11°Sco 0' and Mars in 13°Sco 42'. So it's an applying aspect. That's why I feel Saturn overpowers Mars even he's in own sign.
Mars is chasing Saturn. Saturn the slower planet chasing is not chasing Mars. That would be daft.

Quote:
My Mars has already turned direct in my progressed chart so they are separating.
I've never seen anything of any importance in a progressed chart, except in two cases. One is when a planet changes signs and the other when a planet in an applying aspect changes directions.

You don't need a progressed chart for that. All you need is an ephemeris and it'll take you all of 5 minutes to see if there's anything important to note.

The reason I say a planet "chasing" another is because that's what's happening. You're chasing something you'll never get: wealth, power, fame, good fortune, good relationships, good health, career, or whatever those planets signify in your chart.
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  #17  
Unread 09-25-2019, 10:34 PM
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Re: Does Via Combusta apply on natal charts, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi helike13,

House systems are relatively new in astrology. If you believe the Zodiac is 27,000 years old, then it's only been in the last 1,500 years or so that house system were used.

Sumerian star lists always begin with Pisces. The last time Earth was in Pisces was 25,000 BCE. That suggests, but doesn't prove, the Zodiac was created around that time.

It's possible the Sumerian created the Zodiac then worked backwards to identify the ages.

Still, that begs the question, "Why Pisces?"

If the Sumerians created the Zodiac during the Age of Taurus, why not work backwards to Taurus and stop? Why keep going to Pisces? Or, why not go beyond Pisces? Did something important happen around 25,000 BCE?

By the time Earth entered Pisces again around Year 0, the Sumerians had been dead and gone for ~1,900 years.

Anyway, you don't really need a house system and the ancients didn't use one. I don't see where they really add anything, except complications.

Progressions were calculated differently than modern astrologers do and they were only used for mundane charts, not personal charts.


You're reading the chart wrong. A slow planet can never aspect a faster planet, unless the slow planet is retrograde.

In your chart, Mercury has separated from the opposition to Mars/Saturn so that is no longer an aspect. Mercury has also separated from Jupiter, so that is not an aspect.

Sun/Venus are inconjunct the Ascendant.

Moon has separated from Jupiter, so that's not an aspect.

Moon is applying in trine to Mercury but separated from the sextile to Saturn and is in trine with retrograde Mars.

Jupiter/Saturn have separated from their opposition/trine and are retrograde moving away from your Ascendant.

Your PoF is at 15*° Leo and Sun/Venus are sextile.


Mars is chasing Saturn. Saturn the slower planet chasing is not chasing Mars. That would be daft.

I've never seen anything of any importance in a progressed chart, except in two cases. One is when a planet changes signs and the other when a planet in an applying aspect changes directions.

You don't need a progressed chart for that. All you need is an ephemeris and it'll take you all of 5 minutes to see if there's anything important to note.

The reason I say a planet "chasing" another is because that's what's happening. You're chasing something you'll never get: wealth, power, fame, good fortune, good relationships, good health, career, or whatever those planets signify in your chart.
Good explanation - many thanks
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