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  #26  
Unread 03-31-2011, 02:42 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Things like this could only be for sure answered after studies looking at the charts of typical heterosexual men and effeminate heterosexual men--but I'd say the Moon and Venus and signs like Pisces would have something to do with it and the ascendant; even Mercury since it copies whatever planet it contacts and is androgynous in nature.

I wouldn't say my astrotwin Zac Efron to have effeminate traits, I don't know him personally, but he is effeminate looking and has a first house Venus conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, with Moon sextiling from Virgo. Mercury is conjunct Venus as well and with Moon&Mercury being convertible this gives him a strikingly effeminate face--I think I can see a bit of the 'trickster' Mercury in his eyebrows. He also has Venus sextile Neptune, and Moon trine Neptune very closely.

His chart ruler Mars is in Libra, as is the Sun. So his masculine planets are a bit effeminate as well (both under Venus rulership).



I know this thread is about traits, but it'd be interesting to know how his mannerisms are as well. I would expect those to also be effeminate if he isn't hiding it to not appear gay. He's been teased about that in the media.

In my opinion those with feminine traits are going to have strong contacts to Venus/Moon in some way especially if they contact Neptune (but I wouldn't say Neptune alone).

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Last edited by RayAustin; 03-31-2011 at 02:58 PM.
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Unread 03-31-2011, 04:37 PM
Momma's Kumquat Momma's Kumquat is offline
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

a few things I've noticed...

Hard aspects between uranus and venus can make women more manly and men more feminine. venus conjunct sun or ascendant can make men less aggressive. a strong neptune will give a man a very feminine sensitivity.
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  #28  
Unread 03-31-2011, 06:09 PM
MasterBuilder224 MasterBuilder224 is offline
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post
That is a very interesting perspective, and view into particular things, masterbuilder. How interesting! And you seem to have a refreshing confidence, mature perspective and understanding of gender roles and to sexual orientation.

How true, society has some crazy ideas on what it is to be a man/woman, heterosexual/homosexual/ and is generally unsure about bisexual, from what I can see.

I think your Mars touching the ASC affects your Venus on the ASC. And they're Cancer, you say? How very Angelina Jolie! I often think about how these arrangements have affected her physical makeup, and doesn't she have many distinct features!

You say many things there which raises many questions...and think there would be good conversation there! I began a course in sociology here and felt thrilled to find a constructive outlet for this kind of thought.

Thank you ByJove. Sociology is an interesting study but I've found that it's greatly aided by an extensive study of History. I'll give you an example. The first police unit in the history of America was formed in NYC in 1821 I believe. It was formed because the poor were robbing the rich, especially at Christmas. If we look forward 100 years we see the exact same types of conditions prevailing in NYC, the difference being the police unit was larger. For example, Ella Fitzgerald was a homeless child when she was introduced to the bandleader Chick Webb. Yes, homeless. If we look back 100 years to 1621 in England we will also see very similar conditions. conditions. Of course today in NYC we see the same conditions as those in 1821, the difference being there are more wealthy and middle income earners and a much larger police force. Of course this doesn't seem to deter the dominican teenage gangs at all just as it didn't deter the Irish and English gangs in the 1800s.

So if you're studying crime, drugs, homelessness etc in America, sociologically, how can we not study the structures that create these conditions? And the only way we can truly understand these structures is to examine them over time, to see if they are random or actually part of a serious pattern.

To be brutally honest, sociology is impossible without history. Political science is the same- impossible without hard history. And history, as we are all observing, is the microcosmic study of the macrocosmic influence of the Heavens on Earth.

As for my chart, my Venus-Mars combo is somewhat unusual in that my Asc. is at the Midpoint of Venus-Mars and Sun-Moon, with Sun being in Gemini and Moon being in Leo. It's an interesting combination and gives me very unique insights into Male and Female Essence and Expression, as well as Form and Function.

Having said all that, I'm extremely male in a profound, complete sense, not something as silly as heterosexual or "type A". I know very well how male lions and male deer, Bucks feel. Testosterone is a magnificent thing but never as magnificent as when it is ignited and magnetized by Estrogen, by Female Essence. This is the eternal dance of Life. Sex is merely a tool, a puppet. "Sexuality" is even more superficial and silly from this perspective.

A bull and a queen bee are never referred to as "heterosexual". Why? Because sex is never separated from Life with other animals. Yes, humans are animals. But we see this truth with plants and insects as well. A Black Widow is never called "heterosexual". The thought itself would never occur to anyone.

But with humans we have a host of make-believe words to explain the separation of the sexual act from Life itself. If you think about this nothing could be more paradoxical and delusional.

With the study of the Heavens we study the elemental forces of Life that shape and express male and female essence, and the ebb and flow of cultures, peoples and nations- all of which come from one thing- the union of male and female.

America is a very unique situation because we had a governmental structure before we had a culture. Usually it's the other way around. So we're still finding our way culturally with a lot of baggage from the past.

Dialogues of this sort are very good. Thanks for the reply. ;-)

Last edited by MasterBuilder224; 03-31-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 03-31-2011, 06:30 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by RayAustin View Post
Things like this could only be for sure answered after studies looking at the charts of typical heterosexual men and effeminate heterosexual men--but I'd say the Moon and Venus and signs like Pisces would have something to do with it and the ascendant; even Mercury since it copies whatever planet it contacts and is androgynous in nature.

I wouldn't say my astrotwin Zac Efron to have effeminate traits, I don't know him personally, but he is effeminate looking and has a first house Venus conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, with Moon sextiling from Virgo. Mercury is conjunct Venus as well and with Moon&Mercury being convertible this gives him a strikingly effeminate face--I think I can see a bit of the 'trickster' Mercury in his eyebrows. He also has Venus sextile Neptune, and Moon trine Neptune very closely.

His chart ruler Mars is in Libra, as is the Sun. So his masculine planets are a bit effeminate as well (both under Venus rulership).



I know this thread is about traits, but it'd be interesting to know how his mannerisms are as well. I would expect those to also be effeminate if he isn't hiding it to not appear gay. He's been teased about that in the media.

In my opinion those with feminine traits are going to have strong contacts to Venus/Moon in some way especially if they contact Neptune (but I wouldn't say Neptune alone).
Honestly, I think it's extremely difficult to have this discussion these days because the weakening and softening of American males through school and media culture has been extreme in the last 30 years.

Most notably as far as this picture above is concerned is the gay influence. Gays are most of the voices and minds behind fashion and all related things and I have personally watched gay styles become "the accepted" style for male youths over the last 15-20 years, just through media saturation which make "trends". Their is a gay mentality and perspective. They write about it all the time but the people don't think of it that way. Check out the book "Boi Culture."

The alternative to the above look is the "thug" look, which takes its inspiration from prisoners, most notably the style of wearing the pants far below the buttocks. This comes from the prison culture where it's a symbol of a submissive, obedient, emasculated male. The rest of the style looks borderline homeless and always juvenile.

The basic creed is for boys to look, act and think like Boys for as long as possible. You see this in fashion, you see it in the behavior of 40 year old men still trying to live out their 16 year old fantasies. I find this entire pattern disgraceful in the extreme.

Becoming a Man is barely a concept these days, let alone something one pursues, prepares for, works towards, is trained how to do- internally and externally.

If you put this exact same boy, same chart, in the 1930s in Virginia, he would think, look and act a completely different way- namely, he would have been learning how to be a man and physically doing things that come from and enhance male essence, form and function- from work to dress to speech and life goals.

Today we have superficial words trying to describe far deeper forces. Problem is these words are misshaping and separating consciousness from the deeper, true forces of Life.

One becomes a Man. One is not born that way. In the process one learns how to express the energy of the stars through one's Male Essence and Form. Essence leads, Form and Function follow.

For example, sensitivity has nothing to do with "effeminate" if you understand the deeper meaning of "sensitive" as meaning "aware".

By the same token, a man who expresses his heart is not "in touch with his feminine side." He is HONEST and unafraid of the consequences, good or bad. Honesty has nothing to do with feminine or masculine, nor does the Heart.

But these words and phrases litter the American consciousness and do nothing but obscure and warp people's minds and views. And as we know from the latest research in quantum physics, words and thoughts shape reality, in any direction.

It's all very unfortunate and often disgraceful. And I should add, to me the word Man automatically includes the words Wife and Children, Husband and Father. They are built in to the word Man. I do acknowledge some exceptions of course, such as the extremes of warrior and artist that often make wife and children impossible. And of course the monks who remove themselves from the cycles and rhythms and dance of Life entirely.

But these are extremes, like Nicola Tesla and Duke Ellington or the Dalai Lama or any number of samurai during the warring states period in Japan or similar warriors in the ancient Mediterranean world.

Last edited by MasterBuilder224; 03-31-2011 at 07:33 PM.
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  #30  
Unread 03-31-2011, 09:09 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Honestly, I think it's extremely difficult to have this discussion these days because the weakening and softening of American males through school and media culture has been extreme in the last 30 years.

Most notably as far as this picture above is concerned is the gay influence. Gays are most of the voices and minds behind fashion and all related things and I have personally watched gay styles become "the accepted" style for male youths over the last 15-20 years, just through media saturation which make "trends". Their is a gay mentality and perspective. They write about it all the time but the people don't think of it that way. Check out the book "Boi Culture."
You make so many interesting and intriguing points in your posts and I really enjoy reading things written from a sociological perspective. I think it gets tricky when we talk about a fixed "gay style" or attribute all things soft and feminine in current male expression as being a byproduct of some dominant "gay aesthetic" because that would presuppose that the gay community has only one singular and monolithic mode of expression (gay= soft/feminine & lesbian=tough/masculine), which doesn't take into account the diversity in the gay community itself. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but as a gay person, I can attest to the fact that the gay community is constantly evolving and there is no one uniform that we agree upon. In fact, I'm seeing more of a rejection of the overly manicured steroetype these days among some gay men, especially as it becomes more prevalent among straight men, almost as a means of maintaining some differentiation between what is seen as "gay" and "straight". Fashion itself is changing in this regard, whether shaped by gay designers and editors or not, because currently there isn't as much of that pretty boy/beefcake look on the runways and in fashion magazines that we were seeing five or ten years ago. I agree with you that sexual orientation as a label should exist outside of the dialogue about gender expression and politics because in many ways, they're not as related as they may seem.

Sorry if I veered things off with an unrelated tangent!
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Unread 03-31-2011, 10:37 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

With the aim of staying on topic in the thread, I'm curious masterbuilder, how you feel your conjoined Venus and Mars influence your nature? Can you give us example of your hobbies, your friendships etc. Also, can we see your chart, can you post it? There's more than these at play here - it's clear in your attitudes!

As a gay guy I contest a good deal of the above, but I think it's better if we move the sociology to another thread in general chat!
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  #32  
Unread 03-31-2011, 10:47 PM
MasterBuilder224 MasterBuilder224 is offline
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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You make so many interesting and intriguing points in your posts and I really enjoy reading things written from a sociological perspective. I think it gets tricky when we talk about a fixed "gay style" or attribute all things soft and feminine in current male expression as being a byproduct of some dominant "gay aesthetic" because that would presuppose that the gay community has only one singular and monolithic mode of expression (gay= soft/feminine & lesbian=tough/masculine), which doesn't take into account the diversity in the gay community itself. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but as a gay person, I can attest to the fact that the gay community is constantly evolving and there is no one uniform that we agree upon. In fact, I'm seeing more of a rejection of the overly manicured steroetype these days among some gay men, especially as it becomes more prevalent among straight men, almost as a means of maintaining some differentiation between what is seen as "gay" and "straight". Fashion itself is changing in this regard, whether shaped by gay designers and editors or not, because currently there isn't as much of that pretty boy/beefcake look on the runways and in fashion magazines that we were seeing five or ten years ago. I agree with you that sexual orientation as a label should exist outside of the dialogue about gender expression and politics because in many ways, they're not as related as they may seem.

Sorry if I veered things off with an unrelated tangent!

Not to offend you but I don't think there is such a thing as "gay" or a "gay community".

There is no such thing as "sexual preference" from the perspective of Life.

So-called gay people still build their entire existence/identity around the fundamental drive of Life- those organs and that organ complex. That's why it has somehow recently by given the words "gay" and such as their identity. But the root of the identity has not changed. Life still speaks but in an reversed, dead-end way.

As I'm sure you know, the phenomenon of men sticking their erections in places other than women is not new. What is completely new is numbers of people basing their Identity on this. Even in ancient Greece their was never a phenomenon like this because the Greeks never separated Life from Sex. They also never entertained the idea that a man would not be a father and husband. But there were words for men who had sex with other men and such. Greece was rather unusual with this. In Rome they were called "catamites" or quite simply "female impersonators".

To return to the present, despite all these invented words like "gender roles", "heterosexual" etc. the fundamental Life drive is still there, whether you "prefer" to have sex with another human or a plastic doll. This recent phenomenon called "gay" does not want the consequences of the Life cycle and organs. But it's not only gays who are removing themselves from the Life cycle. Americans over the last 30 years have become increasingly uncertain, afraid of, confused by and ambivalent about family, marriage, children etc, women and men. American men in particular have declined in every sense of the word since the late 1960s. Decline here defined by the word "virility" and all associated ideas and behaviors.

From the perspective of Life, a word like "sexuality" doesn't even scratch the surface of describing this development.

That's why I mention the monks and such as exceptions because they literally remove themselves in every way from all parts of the Life cycle. Gays and such do not. It's an entirely different phenomenon with completely different group-historical roots.

My point is not about the rightness or wrongness and such of these words and behaviors.

My point is about the deeper truth and reality of exactly what the phenomenon IS. They are not nearly as simplistic as they are presented to be, nor as irrelevant.

People accept these words without any examination or deep analysis, as I did in my youth. When examined from the perspective of Life, however, a very different picture emerges.

And I should the so-called lesbian phenomenon is an entirely different thing from gay. Totally and completely different in origin and function.

Last edited by MasterBuilder224; 03-31-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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  #33  
Unread 03-31-2011, 11:15 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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With the aim of staying on topic in the thread, I'm curious masterbuilder, how you feel your conjoined Venus and Mars influence your nature? Can you give us example of your hobbies, your friendships etc. Also, can we see your chart, can you post it? There's more than these at play here - it's clear in your attitudes!

As a gay guy I contest a good deal of the above, but I think it's better if we move the sociology to another thread in general chat!
The Mars-Venus Asc. MP, along with the Sun-Moon Asc MP have blended the energies of these four planets into One energy, One ray so to speak.

This process has taken many years to refine, develop and fully comprehend. It gives me a synthesis of apparent opposites in just about everything I do, filtered of course through the signs involved- Gemini, Cancer and Leo.

Cancer is actually a very intense, passionate sign. I think people forget that it's Cardinal Water. Yes it's ruled by the Moon but it is the sign of giving birth itself. This is the most fundamental drive there is. So with Mars and Venus conjoined in Cancer at my Asc. I have a very cyclical, rhythmic nature that is also very intense and passionate.

So the combination of these energies makes as much an artist as a warrior/athlete...as introverted and internal as I am extroverted and public.....very refined in many ways but very bold and forceful in other ways...very empathetic but very proud, aloof and extremely self-confident..left and right brain have merged with me....analysis and creativity are the same.

But as I said, this fusion has taken decades to accomplish.

Of course, other parts of my chart amplify this. Pluto Quintile Ascendant...Saturn sextile Asc......Moon Sextile Uranus...Merc Conjunct Saturn Trine Pluto...Mars Squ Uranus....Sun Trine Jupiter...Sun Squ Pluto....and a host of Venus aspects- trines and sextiles primarily.

Where can I post my chart??

I'm not sure what you contest because from the perspective of Life, there really is nothing else but Life. Life does not care about anything but furthering itself. We see this truth in every other form of Life.

Love has absolutely nothing to do with life. Marriage is the attempt to set some boundaries on this drive for the peace and good of the community, people and nation. But even this attempt to regulate it often is unable to restrain its blind ambition. Sex is merely a tool, an outlet for this ambition.

That's why Love has never been a definition or requirement for marriage anywhere at any time on the globe.

Make no mistake. Marriage is about POSSESSION. It is the formalization of the basic drive to possess and make Life- from man to woman and esp. from woman to child. Love and other ideas come much further down the line and are optional. That's why we and every other culture have laws to govern the marriage arrangements. It is because possessions, human possessions and lesser things are involved.

This is what I mean when I say I know how male lions feel. The Male Lion is built for only two things, both intertwined: Conquest and Breeding. They must conquer another lion's pride in order to breed and possess their own offspring. Every ounce and second of their life is built for this. This drive is so great that they will kill all cubs from another male in order to throw Female Lions into heat and estrus, so they can breed and posses their own children.

I know this feeling all too well. And it has grown as I have matured. Compared to what I feel now, the "horniness" I knew as a youth is child's play. Horny couldn't even scratch the surface of the Drive for Life and possession that I feel.

Now if you wish to step outside of Life, then yes, you could certainly contest many of my views. You could describe a queen bee and a bull as heterosexual. You could say that communities, peoples and nations are exist because of something other than the union of male and female. You could say Sex has nothing to do with Life. Although biology might present a few problems with that- from the hypothalamus to the phallus, which of course are intimately connected, as you know.

But I have no problem with people who want to step outside of Life and remove themselves from the cycle. The discussion is entertaining either way.

Last edited by MasterBuilder224; 04-01-2011 at 02:04 AM.
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  #34  
Unread 04-04-2011, 09:00 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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I guess what makes a man actually "feel" more on the feminine side is a Venus-Moon aspect. These are the typical ladies' men.
Unfortunately, they can be major womanizers who love all women and no one woman in particular..
I kind of agree with this, especially about "Feeling" more feminine with a Venus-Moon aspect
I have Moon conjunct Venus, and I don't think I have particularly feminine/effeminate traits, but I FEEL more feminine than masculine often times.
I definitely don't think I sound anything but heterosexual, though, even though I'm a bit more soft spoken than most and am bisexual.
I think maybe sounding more effeminate would be more of a Mercury trait? So maybe aspects involving Mercury would show this a bit more? I'm not sure.

Others that could contribute to my "feeling" more feminine or having slightly softer features are probably my Venus trine Ascendant and Venus square Neptune aspects, but I don't think those are as powerful as the Moon-Venus aspect.
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Unread 04-04-2011, 09:15 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

-I heard that men with Virgo Moon have a "tendency" to be effeminate. As well as Libra or Taurus ascendants for men.
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  #36  
Unread 04-04-2011, 11:25 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

--raises hand to much of what was just said above ^^--

I've Cancer Rising
Virgo Moon
Moon opposition Venus
Venus in Pisces
Mercury in Pisces

mitigating
Sun in Aries
Mars in Gemini
Jupiter in 10th of Aries (clear to all from the 10th)

Basic mannerisms - not what we call 'effeminate'
But I can happily talk about emotions, and with Cancer rising, there are some days (not too frequent, thankfully) that I wake up feeling with the sensitivity of 20 people, and feel extremely vulnerable...horrible growing up with. But I've learned to not take things personally on these days, hide away for a comfy day and make no decisions, let the day pass. The next day I wake up feeling as strong and centered as the earth.

The fact is, I blur the lines, with some extreme contrasts. And little could embody that better than Mercury exactly on the MC weaving magic by exact trine to the AC to make sure the world hears. I think my Mars is extremely known of me too. And if the question is comes up, I'm male and gay.

Last edited by byjove; 01-21-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 02:22 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

8th house? Which house system do you use? I've Aqua on the 8th with no planets in it in Placidus.

To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 02:26 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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8th house? Which house system do you use? I've Aqua on the 8th with no planets in it in Placidus.

To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.


Sorry I didn't pay much attention to the houses and I made a mistake.... I also use placidus...
And I do use Chiron, (in spite many people don't use it) I think the aspects are important. In a very personal opinion.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 02:53 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Thank you @ MasterBuilder224 and Byjove for your discussion on this this thread. I thought I'd link you to a thread started here quite a while ago that was inviting this sort of discussion, in case you'd like to revive it. It might be a more appropriate place for this topic.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=23471

And MasterBuilder, if you already have your chart done on Astro.com or another website, you can save it to your computer and upload it on to the forum via the "Manage Attachments" button on the "Additional Options" section of the reply window. There's a how-to here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12126

Thanks for you thoughts.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 03:02 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.
33 years is hardly 5 seconds.

It has been my own study of Chiron which drew me into astrology in the first instance. My own experience has been that astrology as a study was somewhat dry and meaningless without Chiron.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 11:46 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Well 33 years is nothing compared to 2,500 years of testing and resulting from the others! However, if you're confident in Chiron, you're surely the best person for me to learn a little from! If you're free for few mins, PM me and we could maybe take a stroll to the chat room. I honestly want to learn and have no intentions of arguing! Also, that way we could keep this thread on topic!

And as was touched on above, yes, I've read that Chiron-Venus contact can result in gender-bending (blurring of the lines).
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Unread 04-30-2011, 12:37 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

I have another perspective to add to the mix...

different culture's perspectives of masculinity and femininity. Of course, this is really a scale of characteristics, which we consider to be 'feminine' or 'masculine'. I'm an Irish guy living in Italy at the moment, and the things I've seen here will change my understanding of this for life...

- my of my female friends here have said the guys shape their eyebrows better than the girls here
- body language which is (crudely, narrowly) associated with 'effeminate' men or gay men back home, is pretty standard here
- the male interest in fashion here, and the competence that follows is rarely seen in the society at home that I belong to. It is actually a totally different world here in Italy.

So I wonder do some of our ideas that we attach to people via natal aspects don't work very well because we carry the social conditioning of our home society, and we carry some social prejudices as such?
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Unread 08-08-2012, 08:42 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Moon-Venus aspects
Sun-Venus aspects

Man with those aspect tend to be comfortable with their feminine side and don't mind being agreeable and charming. I have venus conjunct sun in virgo in the 2nd H square my moon conjunct jupiter in sag in the 5th H I am comfortable with Venusian things in life . Art and music ....etc
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Unread 09-03-2012, 10:21 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

thank you very much, masterbuilder. you really hit a lot of homers in my book!!!!

i don't think astrology can give much window as far as people being "gay" "straight" or something "in-between." i don't think astrology can even show if a person is going to have a sex change or if they'll get their eyebrows perfectly waxed, or have a food allergy. astrology show the kind of energy and propensities you're born with so certain things could be easier for you, whereas, there's certain danger zones. nonetheless, a lot, if not most falls under free will and personal choices.

masculinity and feminism fall under social conditioning which changes over time depending on what the society deems "appropriate." society hasn't been sure about anything in the past 30 years or even longer. pretty much all my life i've been hearing about deconstructing everything and picking everything apart 1 by 1 and zeroing in that 1 particularity to be the problem or answer to the whole conundrum. life isn't simplified like that and neither are people. i don't quite understand why society has gotten to the point of obsessive nitpicking and wanting to label each and every single thing under the sun rather than just live and let live. the overwhelming necessity that people act out on is to compare and contrast themselves with what everyone else is doing and falling in line has become the utmost of priorities now.

but then again, it goes back to ambiguity and the uncertainty of what tomorrow brings and no one really wants to get left behind. as a society now, the way we live now, we've gotten comfortable about everything providing for us that we don't have to work hard to get anything anymore. there's a huge sense of self-entitlement to everything- being love, getting acceptance, having accolades, etc. without any actual hard work to earn any of it. it's like, why wait for someone to throw a party for me when i can throw one in my honor- that type of mentality is rampant. it's really sickening. because we're not busy working on anything of actual substance and have everything provided for, we have more time to ponder on useless topics that doesn't improve our lives in the very least- like who's gay and who's not. frankly, i don't care who's gay, who's having sex with who, who's in the closet, who's not doing what; all of that is completely irrelevant to me living my life.

this goes back to what was previous posted. my dad has libra mars and is taurus rising. my dad has 4 scorpio planet stellium in the 7th house which includes his venus. my dad's chart is mostly "feminine." he was born in the 50s and was part of the leo pluto generation. my dad has never as so much look, act, or sound "effeminate" in the entire time i've known him. granted, my dad is a well-groomed man, but like i said, he grew up in a generation that actually CARED about one presents oneself to the public. my dad isn't even "soft" in behavior either. sometimes my dad say mean things to me and my mom and he doesn't even mean it. when i say rude things to him (by accident or on purpose) he usually shrugs it off. it's just how my dad was raised in his family during the 50s and 60s generation where there were clear and definite definitions as what it's like to be a man or a woman. my dad took a lot of cr@p from me and my mom because he was raised that a man doesn't get bothered by petty things and the man should be generous and make more allowances to the woman.

on the other side of the pond,
i have a masculine chart of masculine rising with 3 masculine planets in the 1st house and 2 masculine planets conjuncting my rising. there are a total 6 air planets and 1 fire. all my masculine planets fall into the masculine houses and my 3 feminine planets fall into feminine houses. my venus is masculine but my mars is feminine. i don't look, act, nor sound masculine in the least. as a matter of fact, men who like women who are traditionally feminine will approach me first. now, i don't go around prancing in sun dresses and singing doris day, but my moves and mannerisms are soft and feminine. however, since i have mostly masculine energy in my chart, i think very masculine and despite my feminine pisces moon, i can easily cut people out of my life without thinking twice (masculine trait). again, if people were to check out my chart, they would think that i'd be a guy. i grew up with parents who are both part of the leo pluto generation and gave me very clearly defined definitions of what a man is and does and what a woman is and does. although i'm not a conformist, i do pay homage and quite thankful my parents at least gave me some sense of definition. that's probably why i don't tend to waver and oscillate so much like how other people born in the 80s (and afterwards) with being so uncertain about everything.

Last edited by may28gemini; 09-03-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Unread 09-03-2012, 04:12 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by virgo18 View Post
-I heard that men with Virgo Moon have a "tendency" to be effeminate. As well as Libra or Taurus ascendants for men.
Taurus and Virgo are feminine signs, however Libra is a masculine sign. Of course there are more chart factors to consider than solely the ascendant and moon!


Men with a feminine sun sign and women with a masculine sun sign may seem less obviously 'male' or obviously 'female' than men with a masculine sun sign or women with a feminine sun sign


THE MASCULINE SIGNS ARE


Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius and Aquarius


THE FEMININE SIGNS ARE

Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn and Pisces.
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Unread 09-03-2012, 05:20 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

I have always forgot what gender I am. I don't want to be female (I am male), but I could be female easily. Like it never mattered to me. So sometimes I used to look in the mirror and say 'oh I am male'...I feel more 'nothing'...both. Also I have been attracted to both sexes yet have not really enjoyed sexual relations with either that much. I prefer more 'emotional'/companionship.

My moon (sagittarius) is conjunct venus (sagittarius) and uranus (capricorn) and sextiled by Mars (libra)
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Last edited by retinoid; 09-03-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Unread 09-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Quote:
Originally Posted by retinoid View Post
I have always forgot what gender I am. I don't want to be female (I am male), but I could be female easily. Like it never mattered to me. So sometimes I used to look in the mirror and say 'oh I am male'...I feel more 'nothing'...both. Also I have been attracted to both sexes yet have not really enjoyed sexual relations with either that much. I prefer more 'emotional'/companionship.

My moon (sagittarius) is conjunct venus (sagittarius) and uranus (capricorn) and sextiled by Mars (libra)
As I wrote the Moon venus Male are not afraif of showing a charming and feminine side of them I also have A sagi moon
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Unread 11-27-2018, 05:32 AM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

I'm a Cancer with 6 planets in masculine signs and 4 air signs, with the rest being an equal number of fire, water, and earth. Though some of my placements such as SAG rising don't scream effeminate, and I don't know how "effeminate" I'd be considered, but my Venus is the strongest planet in my chart and my Moon is also among the strongest. Both are stronger than my Sun, Saturn and so on. I have Moon Trine Venus while my Sun is Square my Saturn, so I do have quite a polarity when it comes to the expression of the former "yin" energy, which comes naturally to me, while the latter's "yang" / masculine energy is much more unnatural, even repulsive to me.

I'm definitely not effeminate when it comes to fashion / grooming, in fact I could care less about "dressing up" or "styling up." However, I do like long hair and I've found many Asian dramas and video games more appealing to my tastes due to the more metro-sexual looking male characters. To clarify, I'm 100% straight, male, of an East Asian background. I admit I like women's things, shoes, clothing items. I personally would never cross-dress, but I do like those items for some reason.

I feel I'm naturally receptive towards women's feelings and emotions, whether it's at a platonic or a romantic level. My style of showing love and care is by doing little things for them and being a listening ear during both happy and sad times. I don't see any thrill in the chase, my ideal marriage is starting out as friends with deepening affection as time passes. I'm not a traditionally romantic guy who leads, I'm more like a companion who will stay beside the person I've decided to spend my life with.

I like flowers and beautiful scenery, I like music and art and my singing voice can handle quite a few girl's songs with ease while struggling with songs sung by men. In a number of ways I find the world of men, in a stereotypical sense, quite unappealing. The competition, the need to be "macho", the drunkenness (not to say women don't get drunk), the need to prove yourself and never act vulnerable, those are huge turn offs for me. Not to say there aren't guys I don't get along with, because I have quite a few guy friends, but there are things I feel I can't communicate with them as easily as I could with females.

I was also raised by my mom in a semi-matriarchal regional Chinese culture, I adore women and I know that underneath the shell of even strong women there is (usually) a softer core than can be reached and accessed when you show them they can be soft and loving.
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