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  #1  
Unread 09-15-2016, 05:20 AM
Iced8Ace Iced8Ace is offline
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Orbs

I know Lilly stresses orbs but has anyone seen perfection of a matter when the main sigs are applying but are out of orb? For ex. Mercury in Gemini at 2° potentially applying to Saturn in Gemini at 22°. No planets prohibit Mercury, and he meets Saturn at 27° in the ephemeris.

"To know whether it should be considered at all, the orbs of the planets should be added together, and one-half the sum taken...." Chapter 3, CA.

Do we just ignore the aspect then?

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  #2  
Unread 09-15-2016, 09:04 AM
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Re: Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
I know Lilly stresses orbs but has anyone seen perfection of a matter when the main sigs are applying but are out of orb? For ex. Mercury in Gemini at 2° potentially applying to Saturn in Gemini at 22°. No planets prohibit Mercury, and he meets Saturn at 27° in the ephemeris.

"To know whether it should be considered at all, the orbs of the planets should be added together, and one-half the sum taken...." Chapter 3, CA.

Do we just ignore the aspect then?
For horary, orbs don't really matter much in most cases. What matters is that the aspect perfects within the sign both planets are in, despite being a lot of degrees away. If the aspect does not perfect it is a no. I don't really use orbs much myself, but for me they at most imply that the aspect is just a distant event, and not occuring until some time has passed (within the appropiate time frame the event is supposed to happen).

The exceptions are the Luminaries:

- The Moon's orb is derived from its daily speed of 12-13 degrees, and is used to determine whether the Moon is void of course or not, although most astrologers just use aspects cast within the entire movement through the sign to determine if the Moon is really VoC or not.

- The Sun's orb is derived from the concept of its beams and combustion, a debility planets can suffer by conjunction, in which they loose their light and thus can't express their power (and a similar mirror-like effect by opposition for certain planets).

In the case of fixed stars for horary, in my opinion, the conjunction needs to also happen by degree for it to take effect.

--------------------------------------------

*important*: Let me mention that I'm describing this concepts for horary, not natal or other branches, in which orbs can have certain effects according to certain techniques or schools.
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Last edited by Dirius; 09-15-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 09-15-2016, 10:03 PM
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Bunraku Bunraku is offline
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Re: Orbs

Dirius, do you have any example charts where fixed stars played an important role?
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Unread 09-15-2016, 11:33 PM
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Re: Orbs

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Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Dirius, do you have any example charts where fixed stars played an important role?
I don't think I have one.
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Unread 09-15-2016, 11:59 PM
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Re: Orbs

fixed stars are like props. planets are the actors
fixed stars only back the horary judgement
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Unread 09-16-2016, 03:34 AM
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Re: Orbs

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Originally Posted by Lucedelsole View Post
Dirius, what about if a significator is moving to conjunct a fixed star and will be conjunct the fixed star when finally making an exact aspect to another significator? Is the fixed star only supposed to affect the outcome if the significator starts off on it or what about if when the question perfects, the significator ends up on a fixed star?
As tikana described, the fixed stars can be considered props (in horary). It all comes down to the context of the chart anyway. Most of the times, they don't really mean anything, because the conjunction has to be really close, but usually a planet that is separating from a fixed star implies something good happened to them. If it is applying, that something good will happen. The order in which things happen, just shows the order in which the events happen.

However this is only take into consideration when the conjunction or separation is occuring in a very short spat of length, usually 1 degree . If a star is like, for example, 10 degrees away from spica, it is meaningless. Imagine an horary about money and investment, with the ruler of the 2nd separating from conjunction with Spica (a benefic star), at less than 1 degree :

"the querent has recently aquired some extra money, like a christmas bonus, and is now looking to invest it".
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Last edited by Dirius; 09-16-2016 at 03:38 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 09-16-2016, 03:42 AM
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Re: Orbs

Iced8Ace, in a case where it looks like Mercury (fast moving) applies to an orb with Saturn (slow moving,) it helps to check an ephemeris to ensure that the aspect actually perfects. As Saturn continues to move away, is there a chance that Mercury turns retrograde, for example?

Then look at planets that might translate light, or might interfere with the perfection. For example, suppose Mercury applies to a conjunction with Saturn, but before it gets there, it hits a square with Mars and an opposition from the sun. Meanwhile, the moon goes VOC, and changes signs multiple times. Perhaps Mercury gets besieged by Mars and Saturn.
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  #8  
Unread 09-16-2016, 05:31 AM
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Re: Orbs

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Originally Posted by Lucedelsole View Post
Hmm thank you. So what I was asking is, if two significators are in aspect and will meet exactly as the faster moving significator conjunct a fixed star. Would this mean something? Even if it is not within one degree of the fixed star to start?
It would mean what the context of the chart implies to mean. Obviously if 2 planets are (for example) trining each other, while one of those planets is conjoined a star has some meaning.

Fixed stars act as accidental dignities/debilities, as does house position. A planet trining another planet, while he is conjoined a malefic weakening star, shows testimony that the planet is in some way debilitated. The chart context and the fixed star's natural signification will tell you in what way.

But the planet afflicted by the star has to be close enough to it, if its a few degrees distant form it, you can ignore that affliction.
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  #9  
Unread 09-17-2016, 03:50 AM
Iced8Ace Iced8Ace is offline
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Re: Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Iced8Ace, in a case where it looks like Mercury (fast moving) applies to an orb with Saturn (slow moving,) it helps to check an ephemeris to ensure that the aspect actually perfects. As Saturn continues to move away, is there a chance that Mercury turns retrograde, for example?

Then look at planets that might translate light, or might interfere with the perfection. For example, suppose Mercury applies to a conjunction with Saturn, but before it gets there, it hits a square with Mars and an opposition from the sun. Meanwhile, the moon goes VOC, and changes signs multiple times. Perhaps Mercury gets besieged by Mars and Saturn.
Thanks waybread for outlining some of the ways that aspects between planets can be prohibited. It seems rare that a planet would be able to travel several degrees without being impeded. Yes, I'll definitely keep in mind that I should refer the ephemeris. I tend to shy away from concepts like translation and prohibition but I can see how important they are - so I'll study harder!

This is off-topic, but I wanted you to know that I am very fond of the Jack Layton quote in your sig. Thank you for displaying it.
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