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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 08-15-2016, 02:09 AM
Iced8Ace Iced8Ace is offline
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Debilitated Mercury?

Hi!

This thread was inspired by the sticky "Debilitated Saturn behaving well?" which was an awesome learning thread.

I'm in the midst of learning traditional astrology. I've started with reading my chart and I think I'm beginning to understand, just a bit, about what condition the planets are in. I'm very stumped on my Mercury in Pisces, however.

From what I know so far, Mercury is peregrine, in fall, in detriment and in the term of Mars. She is also in a conjunction with Saturn, without reception. There is a separating square aspect to Jupiter, Mercury's depositor, who is in a good position but Mercury rejects Jupiter via reception, so I'm doubtful that it's a helpful aspect. Mercury is swift, and in the 7th house, but also under sun's beams, unless the out of sign aspect doesn't count.

On the whole, Mercury's position looks terrible. I would take it that it would mean that I have below average intellect or even worse, I'm "dumb" lol.

However, I don't think that reflects in reality. I was considered smart in my primary school days and my grades reflected that. I got mostly A's and B's. I was one of those kids who picked up easily on subtext in conversations. My older siblings were jealous of how often I'd get complimented on my intellect. I read a lot in my youth. Reading came very naturally to me and I was good at it, as well as spelling. My verbal communication was also good.

I was all around good at school because of my step-father's encouragement. When he left, I stopped attending school (around junior high-ish) and that's when my grades stopped mattering to me. I was naturally good at English but since I skipped lots of classes, I became **** at math, and anything that required a lot of reading. I developed a rebellious "I don't care" attitude and lost focus.

That continued through high school. I struggled a lot because I'd cut class, (went to summer school loads of times) and in retrospect, all of that was completely avoidable since all I had to do was apply myself. I just didn't want to. My grades were good enough to go to University, where I became an English major because writing is a joy to me.

I've still got a rebellious attitude about writing now (would rather do it for fun than for the marks) and I don't really care about standardized testing or what have you. I think if I went my own way and did my own thing, I'd be better off. Admittedly, I can take *hours* of extra time writing something because I tend to look into things too deeply. I can zone out easily too when others speak, usually when there are too many sounds, or they're going on and on about something shallow.

Any advice or book recommendations to understand this matter would be very appreciated! Thank you in advanced!
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Unread 08-15-2016, 02:23 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

I do not really think a debilitated Mercury means that someone is stupid. It may mean that one's thoughts cause more problems than they solve, though. Sometimes I wish I was dumber...
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Unread 08-15-2016, 03:26 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Here are some points about your Mercury. Zodiacally speaking it is not in good shape BUT from a mundane( accidental) perspective it is doing pretty well. It is angular and this always makes a planet more prominent and powerful in the life of the person. It rules the ascendant so you will heavily identify with being Mercurial i.e Intellectual and by no means an idiot. It also rises before the Sun, which would further raise its significance in your life.

And in regard to it's position vis a vis the Sun it is actually making a phasis, which is another indicator of strength and is very good thing for any planet to be in. (Read more about Phasis here: http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?tag=phasis). Essential dignity is not the be all end all of a planet's performance; if that were the case we wouldn't be seeing so many nativities who break this rule quite regularly. e.g. Isaac Newton has Mercury in Sagittarius and so does the prominent astrologer Robert Hand. Would you describe these people as "intellectually challenged"?

Aspectually, your Mercury isn't doing badly either; far from it in my estimation. It is conjunct Saturn and the energies of both these planets mesh very well with one another as they are both rule over the "melancholic" temperament. Note that the Melancholic is said to be the most intellectual of the temperaments and is known for it's mental concentration, cogitation and strong memory. Mercury-Saturn aspects echo these traits quite well but it may also prone one to pessimism and paralysis through analysis. Mercury is also conjunct the Moon and this indicates that your rational and imaginative mind work are symaptico -- there is good synergy going on between logic and imagination. Not a weak mind imo.

And you say that the aspect from Jupiter is not a good thing but I say it is VERY good thing as a planet likes when it is aspected by it's ruler. Further, as Mercury is peregrine it has to rely heavily on it's dispositor to give him a sort of "redemption". Jupiter is angular, in domicile and rising from the Sun -- this is a wonderful Jupiter and so Mercury has this powerful planet (on top of it's perks) to work with. I can't remember where I read this so don't quote me on this but Jupiter is said to be able to "break all malice" so even if so you say Saturn was a problem (Saturn is of the sect,angular, also making a phasis and oriental to the Sun - Saturn is a good guy in this chart) Jupiter strength would mitigate heavily against Saturn's maleficence.

And I even forgot to mention the swiftness.
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Unread 08-15-2016, 04:56 PM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Actually, Jup, talking about rahu and the internet - of course it's modern astrologers.

There was no internet when the ancients and medievalists were around, so it's kind of up to us to sort out those rulerships.
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Unread 08-15-2016, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Thanks for the clarification regarding some Vedic astrologers
I'm assuming you described a modern style of thinking amongst Vedic astrologers

That's discussion for our Modern astrology board
this thread discussion is specifically Traditional western astrology
therefore modern outer planets are of no consequence
Traditional astrology has seven classical planets
i.e.
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn



That is irrelevant to any discussion on our traditional western astrology board
Oh ..Ok ! Sorry to interrupt on the traditional astrology board.
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Unread 08-15-2016, 10:46 PM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
Oh ..Ok ! Sorry to interrupt on the traditional astrology board.
Aw, don't be sorry! I was really happy to see your posts (though they were misplaced). I feel so privileged to be able to see various perspectives and to be a part of this site. I'm actually overjoyed with how this thread turned out, hehe.

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
I do not really think a debilitated Mercury means that someone is stupid. It may mean that one's thoughts cause more problems than they solve, though. Sometimes I wish I was dumber...
Ah OK! Thanks for correcting me. The question remains however, how then do we measure intellect in traditional astrology?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
You really should be a writer. For real. The midpoint of your Mercury/Pluto trine is Neptune in the 5th. Neptune=Mercury/Pluto. That is superb for writing.

Your Neptune is Quintile your Sun, which is emblazoned in a Fiery Grand Trine with Fire planets in Water houses.

Venus rules your 3rd house and 10th, , and it is suspended @ zero Pisces, in the 6th. So writing may feel torturous at times because you want to pour yourself so into it that you get lost in the endless details…But you are so good at painting pictures with words and evoking emotions with those images…Don’t take it for granted.
Aw, I won't. You hit the nail on the head about imbuing emotions into my writing. I'm really stoked that you shared a modern perspective. That was the branch of astrology I started out with, and it is dear to me. Thanks so much for your input katydid! I actually don't mess around with midpoints much. Guess I should start.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Here are some points about your Mercury. Zodiacally speaking it is not in good shape BUT from a mundane( accidental) perspective it is doing pretty well. It is angular and this always makes a planet more prominent and powerful in the life of the person. It rules the ascendant so you will heavily identify with being Mercurial i.e Intellectual and by no means an idiot. It also rises before the Sun, which would further raise its significance in your life.
I truly appreciate that you took time out of your day to share your knowledge. Thank you kindly, conspiracy theorist. I see that I have quite a bit to learn.
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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
And in regard to it's position vis a vis the Sun it is actually making a phasis, which is another indicator of strength and is very good thing for any planet to be in. (Read more about Phasis here: http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?tag=phasis).
Will do! Thanks a lot for giving me something new to study.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
Essential dignity is not the be all end all of a planet's performance; if that were the case we wouldn't be seeing so many nativities who break this rule quite regularly. e.g. Isaac Newton has Mercury in Sagittarius and so does the prominent astrologer Robert Hand. Would you describe these people as "intellectually challenged"?
No. That wasn't how I meant to come off. I'm aware that every charts different and that there are many factors that affect a planets strength. I was wondering mostly how to go about sorting that out. To be honest, horary is what turned me onto traditional astrology so essential dignities tend to be at the forefront of my mind. That and I tend to be a worry wart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
Aspectually, your Mercury isn't doing badly either; far from it in my estimation. It is conjunct Saturn and the energies of both these planets mesh very well with one another as they are both rule over the "melancholic" temperament. Note that the Melancholic is said to be the most intellectual of the temperaments and is known for it's mental concentration, cogitation and strong memory. Mercury-Saturn aspects echo these traits quite well but it may also prone one to pessimism and paralysis through analysis. Mercury is also conjunct the Moon and this indicates that your rational and imaginative mind work are symaptico -- there is good synergy going on between logic and imagination. Not a weak mind imo.
Thank you for clarifying that not all conjunctions from Saturn are bad. I totally forgot to look at temperament. Wouldn't Mercury and Moon be considered out of orb or is that flexible in traditional astrology? I definitely feel that emotions pour through my writing (it's all that seems to be there sometimes )

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
And you say that the aspect from Jupiter is not a good thing but I say it is VERY good thing as a planet likes when it is aspected by it's ruler. Further, as Mercury is peregrine it has to rely heavily on it's dispositor to give him a sort of "redemption".
I see! I was worried about the receptions, but yes, that makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
....so even if so you say Saturn was a problem (Saturn is of the sect,angular, also making a phasis and oriental to the Sun - Saturn is a good guy in this chart) Jupiter strength would mitigate heavily against Saturn's maleficence.
Sorry if this question is really amateur, but wouldn't Saturn technically be out of sect in a feminine sign? Far above you mentioned that Mercury is also oriental to the sun. Is that necessarily a good thing for Mercury? Wouldn't it be better if Mercury is occidental in a day chart? Mercury seems hard to delineate.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist
And I even forgot to mention the swiftness.
Covered that one for you
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Unread 08-16-2016, 12:59 AM
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Traditional only, to All

All,

This is the Traditional Forum so please limit your discussion to Traditional, non-Vedic interpretations.

Back to traditional,

Tim
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Last edited by wilsontc; 08-16-2016 at 10:09 PM.
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Unread 08-16-2016, 01:52 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
No. That wasn't how I meant to come off. I'm aware that every charts different and that there are many factors that affect a planets strength. I was wondering mostly how to go about sorting that out. To be honest, horary is what turned me onto traditional astrology so essential dignities tend to be at the forefront of my mind. That and I tend to be a worry wart.
It's cool, I didn't misread you at all. That was more done for rhetorical effect as well as to illustrate that essential dignity doesn't mean weakness of ability per se.

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Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
Thank you for clarifying that not all conjunctions from Saturn are bad. I totally forgot to look at temperament. Wouldn't Mercury and Moon be considered out of orb or is that flexible in traditional astrology? I definitely feel that emotions pour through my writing (it's all that seems to be there sometimes )
Traditional astrology tends to be more relaxed in regard to orbs of the planets but obviously the closer an aspect, the more stronger/immediate will be its effects. Planets that are co-present (in the same sign as each other) will be expected to effect each other. On top of this, Saturn pulls the 2 planets closer together through it's position in the centre of each.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
Sorry if this question is really amateur, but wouldn't Saturn technically be out of sect in a feminine sign? Far above you mentioned that Mercury is also oriental to the sun. Is that necessarily a good thing for Mercury? Wouldn't it be better if Mercury is occidental in a day chart? Mercury seems hard to delineate.
Technically, Saturn is. You see, the main criterion for a planet to be in sect is if the planet is the same sect as the main luminary. So as your chart is diurnal, Jupiter and Saturn are automatically in sect. The agreement of planet with it's preferred gender is a rejoicing situation and is lower on the hierarchy than agreement with the main luminary.

Here is a good thread on sect: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=94683

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Covered that one for you
Naturally. You're a sharp girl after all.
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Unread 08-16-2016, 02:10 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

How is Mercury related to intelligence when it's not even in sect half the time? Do half of the people born not have intelligence but merely have it inflicted on them?
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Reading a chart (or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whathaveyou) is a very different act than reading a book. When someone reads a book, the author had a particular intent that the reader is supposed to pick up on. The main message you get from reading stars is "neener neener" because otherwise they would have made themselves easier to read.
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Unread 08-16-2016, 02:19 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
Far above you mentioned that Mercury is also oriental to the sun. Is that necessarily a good thing for Mercury? Wouldn't it be better if Mercury is occidental in a day chart? Mercury seems hard to delineate.
I didn't address this one. Mercury is a very flexible planet and can roll with the punches better than the others. Mercury position re the sun will determine which sect he is in -- oriental makes him a day planet hence he would be in sect in a diurnal, and occidental makes him a night planet and would fare better in a night chart.
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Unread 08-16-2016, 02:40 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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How is Mercury related to intelligence when it's not even in sect half the time? Do half of the people born not have intelligence but merely have it inflicted on them?
There are 2 ways I want to answer your question.

Answer one would be how much people actually use their brain?

Answer two is Mercury is not the only factor that you would look at for intelligence. For that, you may want to look at both Mercury and Moon and perhaps the ascendant ruler and planets in the 1st or aspecting the ascendant to see how someone mind is working. Things like swiftness, angularity, aspects, essential dignity etc then everything would be blended to make a judgement.

Sect is important, but like for many other things Mercury isn't as affected by it's sect position as the other planets in the chart. More often than not he functions properly.

Personally, my Mercury isn't all that good either. It's in Sagittarius, combust, out of sect and in the 12th. I should be a right fool innit.

Last edited by conspiracy theorist; 08-16-2016 at 02:44 AM.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 11:59 PM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Sorry for the late reply. Currently dealing with problems with my university.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Traditional astrology tends to be more relaxed in regard to orbs of the planets but obviously the closer an aspect, the more stronger/immediate will be its effects. Planets that are co-present (in the same sign as each other) will be expected to effect each other. On top of this, Saturn pulls the 2 planets closer together through it's position in the centre of each.
Didn't know planets could do that. That's actually very new and interesting. I have one last question to ask, if you don't mind. What texts helped you to start learning traditional astrology? Currently, I'm reading Lilly CA and I don't know what to read next.

Quote:
Technically, Saturn is. You see, the main criterion for a planet to be in sect is if the planet is the same sect as the main luminary. So as your chart is diurnal, Jupiter and Saturn are automatically in sect. The agreement of planet with it's preferred gender is a rejoicing situation and is lower on the hierarchy than agreement with the main luminary.

Here is a good thread on sect: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=94683


Thank you so much for this!!! I thought I understood sect, but there's always something new to learn, it seems.

Quote:
I didn't address this one. Mercury is a very flexible planet and can roll with the punches better than the others. Mercury position re the sun will determine which sect he is in -- oriental makes him a day planet hence he would be in sect in a diurnal, and occidental makes him a night planet and would fare better in a night chart.
I see, I don't know why I assumed he should always be occidental. Glad you cleared that up.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Answer one would be how much people actually use their brain?
I don't know why this made me laugh.

Quote:
Personally, my Mercury isn't all that good either. It's in Sagittarius, combust, out of sect and in the 12th. I should be a right fool innit.
That's why. Going by your replies, I'd say you're exceedingly intelligent. Thank you for all your help conspiracy theorist, and I apologize for getting back to you so late. Hope to see you around the boards!!
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Unread 08-21-2016, 03:39 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Originally Posted by Iced8Ace View Post
Didn't know planets could do that. That's actually very new and interesting. I have one last question to ask, if you don't mind. What texts helped you to start learning traditional astrology? Currently, I'm reading Lilly CA and I don't know what to read next.
Well, my personal foray into traditional astrology didn't start with any one book. It started out of a sense of deep dissatisfaction with the way Modern astrology was conducted. It seemed that everything hinged on the 3 outers (especially Pluto) and it seemed as if the other 7 planets were de-emphasized. Other things that turned me of was the over glamourizing of certain signs, the overly vague delineations and just the ineffectual nature of the people I was seeing/reading/researching. There were very few modern astrologers that I found to be very good e.g. Greybeard but that calibre wasn't the norm.

So, I found skyscript.co.uk and I read everything on their forums and that was my "book" of sorts. Astrology suddenly opened up and the whole chart felt leagues more substantial and every planet had a lot to say in a chart. I especially read their mystery chart threads and through them I was made aware that all you need to know to make really good interpretation is an understanding of the planets, signs, houses and the relationships they make to each other. No need to adhere to a cookbook once you knew the tools in the toolbox. Then, I used the myriad amount of resources that were scattered across the web. Blogs, books, pdfs; anything I could squueeeze out the information from (unfortunately I didn't bookmark anything) . As well, knowing the philosophy behind the signs and planets and why astrology is structured in the way it is, is pretty important and key to a deeper and more organic understanding of the craft as a whole.

So with all of that, I would recommend:

-The skyscript forums. The main site has a lot of articles for beginners. I also recommend you read about the planets and what they signify in the world and even the mythology surrounding them.
-Learning about the thema mundi (chart of the world): http://www.azastrologers.org/Article...ThemaMundi.htm
- Tertrabiblos by Ptoemy is also online
- There are a bunch of books online that focus on ancient astrology. Two such are Carmen astrologicum (I think that's its name) by Dorotheus and the Anthologies by Valens. Bare in mind that these are thick so may be hard to go through if you aren't aware of certain terms already.
- sevenstarsastrology.com is a good site that you can look through to get a grip on certain techniques.

If you have cash to fork out I'd suggest you get a hold of Traditional Astrology - An Introduction by Benjamin Dykes. He lays out everything in a simple and straightforward way.

Perhaps, there will be other people who can recommend you some more good texts.

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That's why. Going by your replies, I'd say you're exceedingly intelligent. Thank you for all your help conspiracy theorist, and I apologize for getting back to you so late. Hope to see you around the boards!!
Thanks for the compliment and it's no problem at all. There are a lot of other things that make my Mercury work well for me but I won't bog down the thread with that.
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Unread 08-21-2016, 04:59 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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How is Mercury related to intelligence when it's not even in sect half the time? Do half of the people born not have intelligence but merely have it inflicted on them?
It is more related to thought process, rather than actual IQ. Rational and critical thinking, deductive reasoning, etc. are expressed in different ways in every individual.

Also in every chart, a planet can have a huge variation of dignities and debilities. As CT mentioned, sect and sign are just a few among many.

You should also note that for "personality" type of analysis, the concept of "weak or strong" isn't applied methodically as such. In many senses, it has more to do with sign qualities and how they affect the planet. A person with, for example, Mercury in detriment in Sagittarius opposing the Moon, could result in a person being very anxious.
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Last edited by Dirius; 08-21-2016 at 05:25 AM.
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Unread 08-21-2016, 05:10 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Mercury in detriment in Sagittarius opposing the Sun, could result in a person being very anxious.
Is this deliberate?
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Unread 08-21-2016, 05:14 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Is this deliberate?
What do you mean?
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Unread 08-21-2016, 05:16 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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What do you mean?
Mercury can't oppose the Sun
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Unread 08-21-2016, 05:17 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Mercury can't oppose the Sun
LOL true , meant to type Moon.
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Unread 08-21-2016, 08:34 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

CT. I don't need anything, but have I ever told you how good of an astrologer you are? Good shiz.
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Unread 08-21-2016, 12:49 PM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

So, I found skyscript.co.uk and I read everything on their forums and that was my "book" of sorts. Astrology suddenly opened up and the whole chart felt leagues more substantial and every planet had a lot to say in a chart. I especially read their mystery chart threads and through them I was made aware that all you need to know to make really good interpretation is an understanding of the planets, signs, houses and the relationships they make to each other. No need to adhere to a cookbook once you knew the tools in the toolbox. Then, I used the myriad amount of resources that were scattered across the web. Blogs, books, pdfs; anything I could squueeeze out the information from (unfortunately I didn't bookmark anything) . As well, knowing the philosophy behind the signs and planets and why astrology is structured in the way it is, is pretty important and key to a deeper and more organic understanding of the craft as a whole.

So with all of that, I would recommend:

-The skyscript forums. The main site has a lot of articles for beginners. I also recommend you read about the planets and what they signify in the world and even the mythology surrounding them.
-Learning about the thema mundi (chart of the world): http://www.azastrologers.org/Article...ThemaMundi.htm
- Tertrabiblos by Ptoemy is also online

- There are a bunch of books online
that focus on ancient astrology.

Two such are Carmen astrologicum (I think that's its name) by Dorotheus

and the Anthologies by Valens.


Bare in mind that these are thick so may be hard to go through if you aren't aware of certain terms already.
- sevenstarsastrology.com is a good site that you can look through to get a grip on certain techniques.

If you have cash to fork out I'd suggest you get a hold of Traditional Astrology - An Introduction by Benjamin Dykes. He lays out everything in a simple and straightforward way.

THE ANTHOLOGY by Vettius Valens FREE online link
pdf form at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf

CARMEN ASTROLOGICUM by Dorotheus FREE ONLINE Book 1
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus1.pdf

Book 2
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus2.pdf

Book 3
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus3.pdf
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  #21  
Unread 08-24-2016, 09:34 PM
Iced8Ace Iced8Ace is offline
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

@JupiterAsc Thanks for the links--you're awesome!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Well, my personal foray into traditional astrology didn't start with any one book. It started out of a sense of deep dissatisfaction with the way Modern astrology was conducted. It seemed that everything hinged on the 3 outers (especially Pluto) and it seemed as if the other 7 planets were de-emphasized. Other things that turned me of was the over glamourizing of certain signs, the overly vague delineations and just the ineffectual nature of the people I was seeing/reading/researching. There were very few modern astrologers that I found to be very good e.g. Greybeard but that calibre wasn't the norm.
Lol, similarly, the way modern astrology was done left me displeased. I participated on LL some months ago, and was baffled to come across delineations of saturn hard aspects in synastry being positive, great things to have. Obviously, they were saying that to make money but I was still quite shocked, bewildered and deeply saddened that people could say such irresponsible things for money (I don't value paper bills over people, and I'm completely naive, it seems). Anyways, I kept asserting that Saturn's a malefic planet, and Jupiter's a benefic, (mostly from my own life experience, but obviously, some great soul somewhere had told me this while I was studying) and they said I was a dour traditionalist. I told them I was a realist and I didn't know about traditional astrology, and so I ended up here, because I figured it was more in line with my thinking.

Well that was longer than expected. TL;DR, the modernists tried to sell me forever sunshine and rainbows and I knew life didn't always appear as such.

Quote:
Then, I used the myriad amount of resources that were scattered across the web. Blogs, books, pdfs; anything I could squueeeze out the information from (unfortunately I didn't bookmark anything) . As well, knowing the philosophy behind the signs and planets and why astrology is structured in the way it is, is pretty important and key to a deeper and more organic understanding of the craft as a whole.
Good thing that you've highlighted the roots of astrology. I will have to go back to the basics since my modern understanding is very likely skewed in a traditional sense.

Quote:
So with all of that, I would recommend:

-The skyscript forums. The main site has a lot of articles for beginners. I also recommend you read about the planets and what they signify in the world and even the mythology surrounding them.
-Learning about the thema mundi (chart of the world): http://www.azastrologers.org/Article...ThemaMundi.htm
- Tertrabiblos by Ptoemy is also online
- There are a bunch of books online that focus on ancient astrology. Two such are Carmen astrologicum (I think that's its name) by Dorotheus and the Anthologies by Valens. Bare in mind that these are thick so may be hard to go through if you aren't aware of certain terms already.
- sevenstarsastrology.com is a good site that you can look through to get a grip on certain techniques.

If you have cash to fork out I'd suggest you get a hold of Traditional Astrology - An Introduction by Benjamin Dykes. He lays out everything in a simple and straightforward way.
I forgot to mention I frequent skyscript as well, but mostly for horary. I'll start looking more into depth at their other works . At the risk of sounding like a broken record, thank you, since I sincerely appreciate alternatives because of how difficult it is for me to own physical copies. Though, I'll have to find a way to get a hold of Dykes.

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment and it's no problem at all. There are a lot of other things that make my Mercury work well for me but I won't bog down the thread with that.
Your welcome. *glomps* I'm really happy and excited to be learning something new and it is to your complete credit since you took your time out here.

When I get good enough, I'll PM you and ask to give you a reading. Don't decline!
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conspiracy theorist (08-26-2016)
  #22  
Unread 05-10-2018, 11:39 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

It is more related to thought process, rather than actual IQ. Rational and critical thinking, deductive reasoning, etc. are expressed in different ways in every individual.

Also in every chart, a planet can have a huge variation of dignities
and debilities.
As CT mentioned, sect and sign
are just a few among many.


You should also note that for "personality" type of analysis, the concept of "weak or strong" isn't applied methodically as such.
In many senses, it has more to do with sign qualities and how they affect the planet.
A person with, for example, Mercury in detriment in Sagittarius opposing the Moon, could result in a person being very anxious.
published 10 May 2018


Essential Dignities and Debilities in Traditional Astrology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVz6xT7yHDs

The video recording of episode 156 of The Astrology Podcast
Charles Obert discusses the concept of essential dignities and debilities
and how they are used to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.
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  #23  
Unread 05-13-2018, 12:59 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Is that a nativity chart?

Wouldn't 7th house for native's marital partner? Saturn besides Mercury? = perhaps the native's partner could be a lot older than the native?

Is Mercury only for intellect? Would it not also represent Wisdom?

Mercury Saturn and Moon in conjunction? Could it not be someone who might be emotional smart and wise?
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Last edited by Senecar; 05-13-2018 at 01:03 AM.
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  #24  
Unread 06-09-2018, 10:57 AM
kshantaram kshantaram is offline
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Debilated mer emotional, intellectually confused, irrational;

pisces inimical-malefic for virgo asc,
stress-delays in marriage-vocation-business;


asc lord mer over inimical pisces 7th,
moon-sat-mer-venus pisces, the stellium,
detached attitude towards marriage-relationships,
artistic aptitudes-dance, behavioural economics, etc
abdominal-skin-circulatory-feet-head-intestinal health issues;

sat lord 6th for health-challenges over 7th
affecting marriage-health etc ,
mars aspect pisces impacting 7th house matters and inflammations;


venus elevated pisces 6th, selfless-attitude,
influencing others through power of personal charm;
7th lord jup own sag 4th, debilation of mer cancelled,
gradual growth-improvements in marriage-vocation-business;
venus lord 9th elevated 6th, luck with extra efforts;

venus significator for relationship negating to 6th
tending to negate relationship?
sat 7th delayed marriage;

moon lord 11th over 7th,
gains through spouse/marriage, but under stress-delay;


mer elevated aspect virgo asc, overall protective of health/life;
mer 10th lord over inimical pisces,
career under stress-delay;
spouse supportive but dominating;


jup 7th lord inimical over own sag 4th,
growth-riches through teaching-advisory-consultancy-law/justice roles,
however mother-domestic comforts-property under stress-delay,
prone to lung issues/inflammations probably;


mer debilated but debilation cancelled, gradual growth;
jup square aspec own pisces 7th, protective;
pisces inimical hence growth under stress-delay;
may wear green emerald over pendant touching heart;



hope this helps, wishing well, share ground feedbacks,


kshantaram
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Last edited by kshantaram; 06-09-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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  #25  
Unread 06-09-2018, 11:24 AM
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Re: Debilitated Mercury?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senecar View Post
Is that a nativity chart?
Wouldn't 7th house for native's marital partner?
Saturn besides Mercury? = perhaps the native's partner could be a lot older than the native?

Is Mercury only for intellect?

Would it not also represent Wisdom?

Mercury Saturn and Moon in conjunction?
Could it not be someone who might be emotional smart and wise?
Traditionally Mercury indicates education, letters, disputation

reasoning

brotherhood, interpretation, embassies
number, accounts, geometry, markets, youth, games, theft, association, communication
service, gain, discoveries, obedience, sport, wrestling, declamation
certification, supervision, weighing and measuring
the testing of coinage, hearing, versatility.
MERCURY is the bestower of forethought and intelligence
MERCURY is the lord of brothers and of younger children
and the creator of all marketing and banking.
MERCURYS effects go in many directions
depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the interactions of the stars

and yields quite varied results
As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome and quite disturbed
VETTIUS VALENS THE ANTHOLOGY http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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