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Unread 06-28-2015, 03:29 AM
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The Part of Hidden Identity

Greetings. I begged for this separate forum for Astrological Parts for a couple of years and now that it is a reality I haven't initiated a thread to this date.
I have been rather bogged down with matters of personal business, friends with health issues, family issues, tax issues and putting together what will hopefully become another book that I've been working on with fellow member Phoenix Venus.

We've been wrestling with trying to fully understand some recent revelations we had with the Part of Hyleg as we discovered that not only the New Moon or Full Moon that was closest before birth that is of great significance as for it being also known as the of the "Root of Life" (as it is said that the word "Hyleg" is in reference to. And not to be confused with the Planet that ones determines is the "Hyleg" of their chart...which I have yet to personally use as I haven't had the time to look into it and learn the techniques involved.) but that the post and pre-natal New Moons reveal through the Sabian Symbol, found for the degree they are in, very relative and most significant precepts of action, attitude or intellectual approach (as that is how the Sabians were catagorized by Dane Rudhyar. Actually they were identified as lots of five degree each changing in the same order from Aries 01*, every five degrees as "Actional", "Emotional-Cultural" and "Individual-Mental") that will take an important role in your unfolding dharma during your lifetime.

It's not that these symbolic precepts are born along with you as part of your psychological nature (as that is what modern natal astrology is basically, that is, a map of your psychological being) they are representative of what your "Lot in life" will be of a necessity in your future so as to specifically guide you down the path of your dharma so that you have a fighting chance to accomplish it.
Kind of funny in a sense. ... where as the Part of Hyleg is also known as the Part of Life (Root of Life, Radix Vitae) and since Parts may also be called "Lots" that I find it to be about ones' "Lot in life" and more to its nature than that of the "Lot of Life"... or maybe that was what it was known as in times of great antiquity and like so many things from that long ago, translations of archaic tomes and relief found on stellas and the like, "lost something in the translation".

What Phoenix Venus and I found in synastry and in composites is "off the hook" and I have been wanting to write of it but need Her permission as it will require sharing some of her natal chart. My chart is posted all over this forum so I have nothing to hide anymore... but it is wise not to reveal everything about yourself. Many of the long time members here have never revealed anything about their own natal charts. Personally, when it comes to astrologer to astrologer, if I show you my chart it is only courteous to show me yours if you are going to engage me in debate as to some other interpretation or method of technique is to be utilized other than the one I have used... as a considerable amount of weight is given to me by the very structure and nature of my chart, it gives me the edge in personal experience. My natal chart being so multifaceted in that there are so many polygonal astrological matrices, a good many incomplete but they still have some effect and at times even are made complete by transiting influences and chart progression, and given enough of those in ones natal chart to have to deal with and understand... that it is a master course in astrology just living day to day and referring the days events to my natal and progressed natal chart.

In my chart I have oppositions and conjunctions, trines, quintiles, sextiles and septiles... octiles (or semi-squares), noviles and semis galore...-sextiles,-quintiles, -septiles, tredeciles, sesquares and quincunxes... a Grand Trine, a Grand Cross, a "Mystic" or "Harmonic" rectangle... I've got 'em all.

Check back with this sub-forum, time to time, as I know Phoenix V. is likely to go along with initiating a thread on these three Parts of Hyleg, and Hyleg-esque like Parts, and will have some interesting and enlightening stories of her own to share.

But... I sure have digressed here, haven't I?
To the Part of Hidden Identity aka the Part of Oration. It is one of the old Arabic Parts as it is found by the formula of, Ascendant + Saturn - Moon.


I only learned of this Part sometime in the early 00's. For years, more than twenty years anyways, I only used the twenty nine Parts that Ursula Lewis gave formula for in her "Astrology Handbook" (a very concise and very informative book that is now out of print. If you should see a copy in a used book store don't hesitate, buy it. If you don't find it to your liking, I'll buy it off of you. My copy is in Tatters... with a capital "T") which served me well for what little I did refer to them.
It was not until I discovered that Astrological parts are symbolically active (at least for my own self and I have never heard mention of any astrologer using them in association with the Parts, past or present...except for those that have caught on) in late 2004 that I expanded the number of Astrological Parts I use and consult which in number is all of those in the listing I compiled in the thread here in this sub-forum. (I do mention in that thread that I utilize Sabian Symbols to verify the propriety of its title and purported effect. If it doesn't hold up I make mention of it but I do list every known 'published' tile for what Parts are listed... and a couple few that aren't published... not yet, anyways). It was the Part of Hidden Identity (aka Oration) that really floored me ...or at least it is one of those that have... when I first calculated for that of my natal chart as I always consult the Sabians first thing.
There is one degree in the Zodiac that has a Sabian Symbol that, in its way, represents the 360 degree symbols. Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols (which He spent nearly his whole life writing and compiling...over forty years, anyways... He was well into his 70's when He finally did publish his book, around 1973 or '74, I forget and the three copies that I have here are so tattered that I can't read the copyright date anymore. It is another book that is out of print and some people are trying to get a hundred dollars and more for their copy on ebay... save your dough, it'll be back in print ere too long and there are sites online that list them. I recommend Rudhyar's set over anyone elses, followed by Marc Edmond Jones and then Lynda Hill, she is the recognized "living authority" on the symbols and has tried to make some of the symbols more universally symbolic, those symbols which are not so easily understood by other than people of Occidental society... Such as Santa Claus who is used in one symbol. How is someone that is Chinese or Iranian to understand or relate to a Santa Claus?) is titled "An Astrological Mandala" and the 16th degree of Cancer is described and given by Dane Rudhyar as such: [ibid.]

"CANCER 16: A MAN STUDYING A MANDALA IN FRONT OF HIM, WITH THE HELP OF A VERY ANCIENT BOOK.

KEYNOTE:
A deep concern with problems raised by the process of personality integration.


After a person decides to follow a certain course of action, accepting a new allegiance, the results of this decision at the three basic levels of human experience (actional, emotional-cultural and individual-mental) have to be stabilized and consolidated.
This is what is meant by the process of personality integration. In Asia the great symbol of this process is the Mandala; in the Christian world we find, in various forms, the symbol of the Cross. The Christian design is often simple and bare; it is its reference to the crucifixion of a God-man that personalizes or emotionalizes it. The Oriental Mandala can take an infinite variety of forms and can encompass a vast multiplicity of contents; it is psychological and cosmic. The square - the foundation of the Mandala - potentially encloses diverse contents. The Cross, on the other hand, represents conflict in action; it is a symbol of tragic overcoming. The Mandala symbolizes integration of opposing trends and multiple bipolar energies.

This is the first stage of the twenty-second five-fold sequence. It reveals a deep effort on the part of the individualized consciousness to reach a solid basis of understanding that will allow it to perceive the structural relationship of every part of the personality to every other part. It is a mental process implying study and an inward-turning of the attention,
CONCENTRATION; even more it is a symbol of what might at first be called CONFORMATION that is, a profound and stabilizing sense of form, but of one's own individual form, not an external socio-cultural pattern."

That is the degree my Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration, is in. It is actually located at 15* Cancer 24" 31" (always "round up" your degree for the appropriate Sabian Symbol. The degrees of the Zodiac are identified as 1* through 30* by those of us that use the Sabian Symbols, there is no 00* of any sign. 01* 00' 00" is still the first degree, but the instant it is, it ain't no more as that is the nature of the ephemeri.)

Well, as I was 51 years of age when I learned of using the Sabian Symbols in such a manner and also learned of interpreting the chart axis and every house cusp through the Sabians for the message they conceal and the knowledge they reveal that I delved heavily into the book of Rudhyar's,
re-reading it for the first time ever and then reading it again, studying it intensely... just like the Sabian Symbol for the 16th of Cancer implies... and being that it came about so late in life for me that it is as like a "hidden identity" as it was 'hidden' from me for the greater portion of my life and "hidden' from everyone that knew me... ad it has become that which I do get on a little soap box and spout off about to anyone that'll listen... a Part of Oration...

...and by the way, I forgot to mention that my natal Uranus is in the 16th degree of Cancer, at 15* Cancer 19' to be exact. It is square my Venus in the 16th of Aries, sextile my Sun and Desc. in the 17th and 18th of Taurus, octile Mars in the 5th of Gemini, semi-quintile to Pluto in the 21st of Leo octile to my M.C. in the 25th of Leo, sextile Lilith in the 15th of Virgo and trine my ascendant at 17* Scorpio 08'.
I would almost call my natal Uranus the almuten of my chart as it certainly seems to have more affect and always of some pronounced effect on my life by it transits... astrodienst says that my Moon is the most influential.

But if one goes by the fact that the sideral zodiac is now 31 degrees and a little more than 5 minutes progressed and well over thirty degrees when I was born, Uranus is actually in Gemini, the "Higher Ruler" of that sign and one that I believe is particularly oriented towards Uranus as Gemini represents "Air on the Earth" and a number of astrologers have found cause and reason to state that Uranus is the ruler of the tornado and the cyclone.

Uranus is the "higher octave" of Mercury and it is known as the "Great Awakener"... and it is on my Part of Hidden Identity aka Oration in the 16th of Cancer which has a Sabian Symbol that describes the Zodiac as perceived by a Sabian Symbol utilizing astrologer.... go figure.

Where is your Part of Hidden Identity or Oration, and what does it's Sabian symbol tell you?

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Unread 06-28-2015, 05:48 AM
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Question Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

My AC node or rising point is 17' Cancer, which is in the range of 16' Cancer of a "burning mandala". I have yet to figure out my hidden identity on the natal chart, and I will return to this thread tomorrow (it's getting late). My birthdate falls on a New Moon (Feb. 15, 1980) which means the Sun-Moon conjunction plays a strong role with the AC node in the sign of Cancer ruled by the Moon.

EDIT: I added the ascendant (108 degrees) with Saturn (176 or 26' Virgo) and subtracted the Moon (320 degrees or 20' Aquarius) and consulting a web site on Sabian symbols, the answer I received was 38 (8' Taurus?) - Taurus 07 - The woman of Samaria comes to draw water from Jacob's well. or Taurus 08 - A sleigh without snow. Can you examine my results and come up with an explanation for my part of hidden identity?
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!

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Unread 06-28-2015, 08:40 AM
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
My AC node or rising point is 17' Cancer, which is in the range of 16' Cancer of a "burning mandala". I have yet to figure out my hidden identity on the natal chart, and I will return to this thread tomorrow (it's getting late). My birthdate falls on a New Moon (Feb. 15, 1980) which means the Sun-Moon conjunction plays a strong role with the AC node in the sign of Cancer ruled by the Moon.

EDIT: I added the ascendant (108 degrees) with Saturn (176 or 26' Virgo) and subtracted the Moon (320 degrees or 20' Aquarius) and consulting a web site on Sabian symbols, the answer I received was 38 (8' Taurus?) - Taurus 07 - The woman of Samaria comes to draw water from Jacob's well. or Taurus 08 - A sleigh without snow. Can you examine my results and come up with an explanation for my part of hidden identity?
Hello CapAquaPis.
You are using a technique to determine Parts that I'm not at all familiar with...I will assume though that you know what you're doing.

It is late here and I'm winding down my long day, I already have a bit of a notion as to what this symbol may be relevant to and will likely reveal itself to be as so eventually.

But, I do hope that you are "rounding up" as I mentioned. if your Part of Hidden Identity is 06* Taurus and some change then it is in the 7th degree of Taurus. If it is anything over 07* Taurus 00' 00" then it is in the 8th degree of Taurus. But do know that these precepts are not as like something digital but more like what one could say is like analog, that is if we were comparing them to stations on a radio. If you have ever used an old analog radio you already know how one station fades ...then blends in with the next until the next one becomes all that you can hear. Unlike a digital tuner that cuts it cleanly from one station to the next...ideally anyways. It's the same with these influences. When one is very near a cusp of a degree you will be getting some of the preceding or following degrees' influence.
It does sound to me, though, that you have the 8th degree of Taurus for the Part... If it is the 7th, it'll be easier analysis for me.

I'll get back to this, hopefully tomorrow, and see if you have clarified the issue

That degree and symbol, the 7th of Taurus, is quite significant to Phoenix Venus, by the way, it just so happens to be Her Part of Hidden Identity ...hence why it would be an easier analysis.

If it is the same degree, that you have for your Part of Hidden Identity, I'll have to give her a "poke" and see if she won't share some insight with you.
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Unread 07-01-2015, 11:04 AM
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

As CapAquaPis hasn't replied yet to clarify which degree specifically she is referring to as being Her Part of Hidden Identity (at least I think this member is female, for some reason or other. I think we've had some correspondence back and forth on a few threads in this forum...I'm terrible at remembering a lot of things like that... and if I'm in error I apologize) ....sigh... I was about to write that; 'I'm going to assume it to be the 8th degree of Taurus', but rereading the exact text...

"...the answer I received was 38 (8' Taurus?) - Taurus 07-..."

I was assuming the "38" is referring to the 38th degree from the beginning of Aries, which would be the 8th degree of Taurus but as C.A.P. then wrote 8' Taurus? followed by 07, I now wonder if C.A.P. didn't mean 08* Taurus 07', otherwise why the "0" before the "7"? ...and why not a "0" before the "8" as well?

Well, instead, what I will write here is what I wrote Phoenix Venus once about Her Part of Hidden Identity in the 7th of Taurus... it is a degree and Sabian Symbol that has shown up in a few other charts she is connected to... I seem to recall that it may be a composite Part of ours that also shares that Sign and degree and, or, a composite Part she shares with the chart I have been submitting for evaluation and approval as being that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth that is cast for the date that, the renowned 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave for the man from Nazareths' birth date.

I know it that I should have all that, if not entirely in memory, at least in an accessible notebook on hand... (if you could only see the mess that my study is...oy!) the thing of it is, we are both so convinced as to being meant to be in teamwork on this endeavor that I really have no need for such data to remind myself as if I needed to yet be convinced.
I am in the forum this evening, having come tonight, to write of this very "synastry" through a thread, I'm about to initiate, on the Part of Hyleg.

I mentioned some of this matter in a thread I initiated, last December in the Mundane sub-forum, that is titled "USA New Moon Dec. 21, 2014 Winter Solstice & Sun Rites" in the first post I made and what I'm about to add to that of recent discovery I find to be just about completely mind blowing... mind staggering, anyways... Phoenix Venus spotted it first and I know was possibly more stunned than my self... as at least I've had a few such type "synastrical connections" pop up between myself and someone that has been instrumental in advancing my understanding or contributing to the work in some greatly significant way over the last 18 or so years...

If it means anything to anyone, I've been told by a couple of very reputable clairvoyants, independent and unknown to one another, that I was alive in a previous lifetime, at the same time and place as the Man from Nazareth and that I knew him rather well. I have little reason to doubt it anymore... I think Phoenix Venus knew Him as well... she may have even been that woman at the well that was from Sumeria.

Phoenix V. has never said anything as to the like nor will she say anything more than "Who knows?" or "anything might be a possibility". Having gotten to know the woman I identify as Miss X whose own natal chart gave the clues I needed to produce that chart I did, ...that I propose is the natal chart of the "Prince of Peace"..., and seen what her own natal chart does in synastry and composite and that one of those aforementioned clairvoyants asserts that Miss X knew Jesus/Yeshu'a rather well as she was one of the two "nannies" that He had.... given all that for experience to date, I'd wager Phoenix V was also there in those times and in the right place (and Edgar Cayce said there were two "nannies" and one was reincarnate and went to Edgar for a reading in the early twentieth century. It is documented in the readings on file and available to the public at the A.R.E.)

Here's what Dane Rudhyar wrote about the 7th degree of Taurus in his book; "An Astrological Mandala".

"TAURUS 7: THE WOMAN OF SAMARIA AT THE ANCESTRAL WELL.

KEYNOTE:
The meeting of the traditional past and of the creative spirit pointing to the future.

The symbol refers to a most important, but usually narrowly interpreted (or interpreted away!) episode of the Christ mythos. Early in his ministry, Jesus meets a Samaritan woman at an ancestral well. This woman belongs to a tribe despised by the Jews; moreover, she is unmarried and therefore on the fringe of even her own society. It is to just that kind of woman that Jesus reveals that he is the Messiah: 'I am He', a revelation that he apparently will not bestow even upon his disciples, at least not in words. (Words in occultism are the creative factor.)
What does this mean? Jesus, as the Avatar incorporating the Christ-Impulse, came to replace the old tribal order with a new order based on universal Love. It is not to representatives of, or even to men still attached to, the old order that Jesus could reveal his spiritual, evolutionary and society-transforming status; they had instead to reach a point where they could discover his avatar-ship - as did Peter just before the Transfiguration scene. But to the woman of Samaria - who, in her openness to love's urgings, had already repudiated any narrow subservience to the old order - Jesus could reveal his function. The highest meets the lowest when this lowest is free from traditional bonds and open to love. The creative future descends first to that which has become chaos. An old order is never open to a new Revelation until it has accepted disorder in the name of that Power which subsumes all forms of order, i.e. Love.

In this second stage of the five-fold sequence, a contrasting element enters upon the scene. It is no longer a collective-cultural effort based on past knowledge — as in the preceding symbol — but a 'meeting' that introduces into the collective situation a totally new factor which transcends it.
A NEW QUALITY OF BEING is revealed which renders the old patterns obsolete."


What I wrote Phoenix Venus awhile back (and she gave me permission to share anything I wish pertaining to this upcoming thread I'm to initiate of the Part of Hyleg, and this thread is going to be a bit of a prelude, or at least it has become now...)

...copied and pasted as follows... >>>

"...what that Hidden Identity is, just like the woman of Sumeria, you can see 'Yeshu'a' for what He really is...in that natal chart of His. While others are hemming and hawing, some can't see any connection, some are possibly in denial, but I don't think they {those in denial. ptv} are good enough to see it all.. but You can see it straight away. You look it over and say "Oh, yeah, that's Jesus for sure and there ain't no doubt." The Chart revealed it self to you just like Yeshu'a revealed his true self to the woman of Sumeria at the well. I don't know if your destiny for Oration is to be that of, possibly, the greatest Sabian Symbologist Astrologer of your generation or that of a Preacher, or Reformer, that is also a Maestro of applying Sabian Symbols to Astrological Knowledge and Technique ..maybe both?"

I know that sounds maybe a bit premature for a prediction, maybe somewhat "over the top", and I mean no dis-respect to astrologer Lynda Hill, whom is considered to be the "Worlds' living authority on the Sabian Symbols" and is quite deserving of the title, but Lynda and I were born the same year, 1953, and Phoenix V. isn't yet even half our age, and should be around a good number of years after Lynda and I have been long since departed... and Phoenix V. has already shown intelligence and insight in understanding and using the Sabian Symbols and has, what I call, "mad skills" at applying them to Astrological Parts in pursuit of clarifying, even rectifying, the titles and descriptions of some of the more obscure and little known of, and known about, Parts... and at such a young age... and I have yet to meet anyone else that even comes close to, much less exceeds, her talent at it.

If I'm right, then this "Identity" was "hidden" from her until rather recently, we only "connected" in April/May of 2013... she had never worked with the Sabian Symbols prior to our meeting...not that I'm aware of, anyhow. ...and that can be verified by reading through some of the threads she contributed to around that time in the Degree Symbolism sub forum.
She has, to date, definitely been demonstrating herself to be quite proficient at oration on the subject.

It's 3 am here and now a bit late to begin with the initiation of the planned thread on the Part of Hyleg... stay in touch with this sub forum on Astrological Parts. I hope to, I should, have it going before the week is out.

ptv
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Unread 07-01-2015, 11:28 AM
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

I have to add that these symbols don't always work in such a literal manner.
For someone else, that has this degree for their Part of Identity, it will most likely need to be understood in a generalization.

Someone that has the same sort of position, as the woman from Sumeria at the well (as described by Dane Rudhyar in his analysis and summation on the 7th degree of Taurus) relative to something, or someone, in a manner of a revelatory nature. An outsider, or newcomer, with a keen eye and exceptional powers of discernment and evaluation that is able to make something, or someone, seemingly destined for obscurity, known to the world and what gifts or treasures they provide or, they them self, actually are.

That would be another "take" on having the 7th degree of Taurus for the position of ones Part of Hidden Identity, aka, the Part of Oration.
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Unread 07-02-2015, 06:24 AM
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Thumbs up Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Sorry for the late reply, PTV...you believe I'm not doing the degrees right. And I'm male, but you might read my gender identity thread from 6 months ago...and believed I was female. Thanks for providing more information on the 7 or 8 deg. Taurus, but in my natal chart, I have Chiron on 9 Taurus.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 07-03-2015, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post

Well, instead, what I will write here is what I wrote Phoenix Venus once about Her Part of Hidden Identity in the 7th of Taurus... it is a degree and Sabian Symbol that has shown up in a few other charts she is connected to... I seem to recall that it may be a composite Part of ours that also shares that Sign and degree and, or, a composite Part she shares with the chart I have been submitting for evaluation and approval as being that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth that is cast for the date that, the renowned 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave for the man from Nazareths' birth date.

I know it that I should have all that, if not entirely in memory, at least in an accessible notebook on hand... (if you could only see the mess that my study is...oy!) the thing of it is, we are both so convinced as to being meant to be in teamwork on this endeavor that I really have no need for such data to remind myself as if I needed to yet be convinced.
I am in the forum this evening, having come tonight, to write of this very "synastry" through a thread, I'm about to initiate, on the Part of Hyleg.

I mentioned some of this matter in a thread I initiated, last December in the Mundane sub-forum, that is titled "USA New Moon Dec. 21, 2014 Winter Solstice & Sun Rites" in the first post I made and what I'm about to add to that of recent discovery I find to be just about completely mind blowing... mind staggering, anyways... Phoenix Venus spotted it first and I know was possibly more stunned than my self... as at least I've had a few such type "synastrical connections" pop up between myself and someone that has been instrumental in advancing my understanding or contributing to the work in some greatly significant way over the last 18 or so years...

If it means anything to anyone, I've been told by a couple of very reputable clairvoyants, independent and unknown to one another, that I was alive in a previous lifetime, at the same time and place as the Man from Nazareth and that I knew him rather well. I have little reason to doubt it anymore... I think Phoenix Venus knew Him as well... she may have even been that woman at the well that was from Sumeria.

Phoenix V. has never said anything as to the like nor will she say anything more than "Who knows?" or "anything might be a possibility". Having gotten to know the woman I identify as Miss X whose own natal chart gave the clues I needed to produce that chart I did, ...that I propose is the natal chart of the "Prince of Peace"..., and seen what her own natal chart does in synastry and composite and that one of those aforementioned clairvoyants asserts that Miss X knew Jesus/Yeshu'a rather well as she was one of the two "nannies" that He had.... given all that for experience to date, I'd wager Phoenix V was also there in those times and in the right place (and Edgar Cayce said there were two "nannies" and one was reincarnate and went to Edgar for a reading in the early twentieth century. It is documented in the readings on file and available to the public at the A.R.E.)

Here's what Dane Rudhyar wrote about the 7th degree of Taurus in his book; "An Astrological Mandala".

"TAURUS 7: THE WOMAN OF SAMARIA AT THE ANCESTRAL WELL.

KEYNOTE:
The meeting of the traditional past and of the creative spirit pointing to the future.

The symbol refers to a most important, but usually narrowly interpreted (or interpreted away!) episode of the Christ mythos. Early in his ministry, Jesus meets a Samaritan woman at an ancestral well. This woman belongs to a tribe despised by the Jews; moreover, she is unmarried and therefore on the fringe of even her own society. It is to just that kind of woman that Jesus reveals that he is the Messiah: 'I am He', a revelation that he apparently will not bestow even upon his disciples, at least not in words. (Words in occultism are the creative factor.)
What does this mean? Jesus, as the Avatar incorporating the Christ-Impulse, came to replace the old tribal order with a new order based on universal Love. It is not to representatives of, or even to men still attached to, the old order that Jesus could reveal his spiritual, evolutionary and society-transforming status; they had instead to reach a point where they could discover his avatar-ship - as did Peter just before the Transfiguration scene. But to the woman of Samaria - who, in her openness to love's urgings, had already repudiated any narrow subservience to the old order - Jesus could reveal his function. The highest meets the lowest when this lowest is free from traditional bonds and open to love. The creative future descends first to that which has become chaos. An old order is never open to a new Revelation until it has accepted disorder in the name of that Power which subsumes all forms of order, i.e. Love.

In this second stage of the five-fold sequence, a contrasting element enters upon the scene. It is no longer a collective-cultural effort based on past knowledge as in the preceding symbol but a 'meeting' that introduces into the collective situation a totally new factor which transcends it.
A NEW QUALITY OF BEING is revealed which renders the old patterns obsolete."


What I wrote Phoenix Venus awhile back (and she gave me permission to share anything I wish pertaining to this upcoming thread I'm to initiate of the Part of Hyleg, and this thread is going to be a bit of a prelude, or at least it has become now...)

...copied and pasted as follows... >>>

"...what that Hidden Identity is, just like the woman of Sumeria, you can see 'Yeshu'a' for what He really is...in that natal chart of His. While others are hemming and hawing, some can't see any connection, some are possibly in denial, but I don't think they {those in denial. ptv} are good enough to see it all.. but You can see it straight away. You look it over and say "Oh, yeah, that's Jesus for sure and there ain't no doubt." The Chart revealed it self to you just like Yeshu'a revealed his true self to the woman of Sumeria at the well. I don't know if your destiny for Oration is to be that of, possibly, the greatest Sabian Symbologist Astrologer of your generation or that of a Preacher, or Reformer, that is also a Maestro of applying Sabian Symbols to Astrological Knowledge and Technique ..maybe both?"

I know that sounds maybe a bit premature for a prediction, maybe somewhat "over the top", and I mean no dis-respect to astrologer Lynda Hill, whom is considered to be the "Worlds' living authority on the Sabian Symbols" and is quite deserving of the title, but Lynda and I were born the same year, 1953, and Phoenix V. isn't yet even half our age, and should be around a good number of years after Lynda and I have been long since departed... and Phoenix V. has already shown intelligence and insight in understanding and using the Sabian Symbols and has, what I call, "mad skills" at applying them to Astrological Parts in pursuit of clarifying, even rectifying, the titles and descriptions of some of the more obscure and little known of, and known about, Parts... and at such a young age... and I have yet to meet anyone else that even comes close to, much less exceeds, her talent at it.

If I'm right, then this "Identity" was "hidden" from her until rather recently, we only "connected" in April/May of 2013... she had never worked with the Sabian Symbols prior to our meeting...not that I'm aware of, anyhow. ...and that can be verified by reading through some of the threads she contributed to around that time in the Degree Symbolism sub forum.
She has, to date, definitely been demonstrating herself to be quite proficient at oration on the subject.

It's 3 am here and now a bit late to begin with the initiation of the planned thread on the Part of Hyleg... stay in touch with this sub forum on Astrological Parts. I hope to, I should, have it going before the week is out.

ptv
Thanks piercethevale for the interpretation and the words of encouragement.

I find it quite amusing to have a symbol regarding the revelation of Yeshua's identity as a part of hidden identity. Its quite fitting and reflects the cosmos multifaceted influence upon us.

Hidden identities and revelations go hand in hand. When something is hidden, it touches under the surface and therefore creates deep ripples in our psyche.... It makes sense that the revelation of something we identify with would lead to oration.....

I do see the connection between the symbolism for the seventh degree of taurus and coming to find out about piercethevale's proposed chart of Yeshua. The symbol even showcases the nature with which i became privy to the info, being that it was shown to me. Sorta just fell into my lap.... And its definitely proven to be significant and accurate, in my opinion.

I am humbly honored to be an astrologer at the dawn of the technological era.... With His chart in my hands.

Its surely no coincidence that this degree has shown up for me. Aside from it being my part of hidden identity, it is also my part of praise, acceptance. It is Yeshua & my composite part of fortune and composite vertex. Its also piercethevale & my composite part of liberty.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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Sorry for the late reply, PTV...you believe I'm not doing the degrees right. And I'm male, but you might read my gender identity thread from 6 months ago...and believed I was female. Thanks for providing more information on the 7 or 8 deg. Taurus, but in my natal chart, I have Chiron on 9 Taurus.
You still haven't clarified where your Part of Hidden Identity is exactly.
...or maybe that's the way that you want it to be?

Here's a link to a handy calculator, online, that is free of charge, that figures out where Parts are in your natal charts.
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php
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Question Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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You still haven't clarified where your Part of Hidden Identity is exactly.
...or maybe that's the way that you want it to be?

Here's a link to a handy calculator, online, that is free of charge, that figures out where Parts are in your natal charts.
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php

I thought I did: 7' or 8' Taurus. I also tried to figure out the middle points between 26' Aquarius (my Sun) and 17' Cancer (my Ascendant). Doing easy math, it came out as 8' Taurus! On the opposite is 8' Scorpio, the degree associated with procreation, conception, pregnancy and childbirth in astrology. To connect my gender identity or a past life (as a woman), perhaps this is my hidden identity from what others knew me in this life.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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I thought I did: 7' or 8' Taurus. I also tried to figure out the middle points between 26' Aquarius (my Sun) and 17' Cancer (my Ascendant). Doing easy math, it came out as 8' Taurus! On the opposite is 8' Scorpio, the degree associated with procreation, conception, pregnancy and childbirth in astrology. To connect my gender identity or a past life (as a woman), perhaps this is my hidden identity from what others knew me in this life.
7 or 8 isn't being specific and your using the notation for minutes of a degree by using the single apostrophe... thus I really can't do anything with it as I have nothing specific to proceed from.
By the standard (QWERTY) typewriter keyboard:

* is for degrees

' is for minutes of a degree

" is for seconds of a degree



You have to post the degree and at least the minutes, the seconds of the degree aren't too important,,except in a few rare instances...such as it's possible to have a Part, for example, at 00* Taurus 00' 03"
(and that is in the 1st degree of Taurus, by the way)

The Sabian Symbols are very different from one degree to the next and yet they produce a perfect path, one by one, From Virgo 30* Clockwise or from Aries 01* counterclockwise. One path that extricates a soul from the material realm the other path enmeshes a soul more anchored into it.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Thank you for opening this thread.

I'll post what it is, nobody ever reads mine anyway, there's not much purpose in hiding.

Maybe I'll get some more useful information, though I already understand, so, according to the time my mother provided, I'm Cancer 3.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

I'm not going to reply to any more posts here unless, number one, someone specifically needs to know the Sabian Symbol because they have not way of finding it out for themselves or can't get an idea of how it may apply to this particular Astrological Part and number two, give more than a vague idea, or generalization, of in what degree of the Zodiac this Part is found in their natal chart.
I am sorry, but a reply such as, "I am Cancer 3", does not meet that criteria.

For those of you unsure of the exact time of your birth, it is for the best that you don't apply Sabian Symbols to Astrological Parts from your natal chart.

I had to study my natal chart and produce a great quantity of Parts with the corresponding Sabian Symbol until I realized my own recorded birth time of 7:41 pm was at least twenty seconds later than my actual birth time. That rectification was only accomplished by the amassing of so great a number of Parts derived from my chart that I could then discern which of those that were close to the cusp of either the beginning, or the end, of a degree that seemed to be inapplicable to what I know of myself that pertains to the subject of the Sabian Symbol, as applied to the precept of said Part. I notice a few near the cusp at the beginning of the degrees they were in that were fitting to the Sabian symbol of the previous degree and rectified the time accordingly. I found that to be the case as to only those near the beginning of a degree. Once I came to a point in the span of the degree of the Part that was later in the degree that fit that Sabian Symbol for that degree and not the previous one I had my "cut off point".
That is how I know, and why I state, that the Sabian Symbols are the ultimate tool for chart rectification.

But, the hospital, I was born in, didn't record birth times to the absolute second and none presently do that I know of. Thus I know I can't expect people to know the time to the precise second and I realize that even hospitals, or attending physicians and mid-wives, might record a time that is off. I can work with a time that is within a couple, maybe a little more, minutes off from the precise time. If the Part comes near to, or in the middle, of the degree found it most likely surely is in that degree. If it comes close, or somewhat closer, to either end of the degree, i.e. the "cusp", then it might go either way and I will address that.

A reply of "I am Cancer 3", to me, can either mean that, you know what you are doing, or that it is 3 degrees and some minutes and, or seconds, of a degree in addition to 3* Cancer, which is in fact the 4th degree of Cancer.
At 62 years of age my time left on this earth has become too short for me to waste any of it by taking guesses and writing replies that don't apply

Try to observe and honor the method of proper Astrological nomenclature people. If Astrology is ever to be recognized as a legitimate science then we must conduct ourselves as like scientists.

Any future threads on Astrological Parts that I initiate will have this disclaimer at the heading of the first post

Thank you, ptv
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
Thank you for opening this thread.

I'll post what it is, nobody ever reads mine anyway, there's not much purpose in hiding.

Maybe I'll get some more useful information, though I already understand, so, according to the time my mother provided, I'm Cancer 3.
I'm sorry that I had to use your post as an example, but your reply is a bit ambiguous. I also don't know if you are looking for a reply from me or just making a statement "for the record" so to speak.

It would be nice to hear what you make of the Sabian Symbol for the degree your Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration, is found in. Or if you are not a believer in the Sabian Symbols, or perhaps not yet convinced of their veracity, perhaps any observations as to transits or progression involving the Part from your natal Horoscope?

And besides all of that, once you post the description of the Sabian Symbol for your Part, I, and the other members, will know for sure exactly which degree it is that you did refer to.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Sorry, at first I got sad after thinking about it and then I forgot to elaborate, because I got carried away, then I had some work to do, I just came back to write what it means for me

I do see the meaning. They work. The axis, like you said is essential too. It is clearly a system that has a meaningful path.

I have been trying to find a perfect source for the degree symbols explanations for a while, but it's all mumbo-jumbo, particularly in my country. Here people don't take degrees seriously enough I think, the most popular astrologer alive uses a very, very loose sidereal system and counts 2 degrees as the same... I think I might be able to find out for sure which birth time to count after I explore them all, there is no time to rectify the time, and I don't really have anyone to ask...

Anyway, here it is:

PHASE 93 (CANCER 3): A MAN BUNDLED IN FUR LEADS A SHAGGY DEER.

KEYNOTE: The need to overcome stagnation and "cold" during trial of endurance.

This rather enigmatic symbol has suggested an exploration in arctic regions; but it seems more relevant to see in it simply the difficult phase imposed by the new allegiance upon the reoriented consciousness. In India the deer was the symbol of Brahma, the Creative God. The antlers represent the extension of the mind-power located in the head. The new path may lead to cold regions requiring insulation from harsh circumstances. There may even be a desire to escape from new responsibilities. The will leads the mind on toward the spiritual North of the soul.

This is the third stage in the nineteenth five-fold sequence. A period of trials is implied. The focalized mind may seek to escape its limits by venturing forth toward an idealized goal the North Star, perhaps. This represents A TESTING OF THE WILL.

It means dealing with an endless winter on a mountain that you have to cross/finish some work there. Nobody to talk to besides God, only he knows what and how to make it out of the situation. But it's kinda like I am on a mission to preserve that deer to take it somewhere later, maybe to show/give it to somebody or have it help somebody. It could also be a punishment because I already killed one and wore it's furs/neglected the spirit. But I keep hiding in caves to play my flute and procrastinate

It's interesting because years ago, I had a dream that the Himalaya reached the window of my room (3rd floor in a building) and I could see an endless line of people on a path to a mountain top carrying huge baskets of Tibetan cherries (not that any grow there) of all kinds that somebody I loved had them bring for me. Endless tears that have ranked up since the beginning that is. I failed to preserve them the way I should preserve that deer. their NN is in conjunct with my Pluto.

It must be a punishment. All in all, it means heart under blade as in the character, means to endure, like suggested elsewhere in my chart.

Clearly this is about Saturn, so finding the part has helped me understand my Mars-Saturn square a little better and what my goal should be.

Maybe I shouldn't, but still, you are right, I'd better elaborate some more just in case, maybe other people who read don't understand, I think of it like a Saturn issue, firstly because Brahma is associated with Saturn and my dream has many Saturn symbols in it.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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Sorry, at first I got sad after thinking about it and then I forgot to elaborate, because I got carried away, then I had some work to do, I just came back to write what it means for me

I do see the meaning. They work. The axis, like you said is essential too. It is clearly a system that has a meaningful path.

I have been trying to find a perfect source for the degree symbols explanations for a while, but it's all mumbo-jumbo, particularly in my country. Here people don't take degrees seriously enough I think, the most popular astrologer alive uses a very, very loose sidereal system and counts 2 degrees as the same... I think I might be able to find out for sure which birth time to count after I explore them all, there is no time to rectify the time, and I don't really have anyone to ask...

Anyway, here it is:

PHASE 93 (CANCER 3): A MAN BUNDLED IN FUR LEADS A SHAGGY DEER.

KEYNOTE: The need to overcome stagnation and "cold" during trial of endurance.

This rather enigmatic symbol has suggested an exploration in arctic regions; but it seems more relevant to see in it simply the difficult phase imposed by the new allegiance upon the reoriented consciousness. In India the deer was the symbol of Brahma, the Creative God. The antlers represent the extension of the mind-power located in the head. The new path may lead to cold regions requiring insulation from harsh circumstances. There may even be a desire to escape from new responsibilities. The will leads the mind on toward the spiritual North of the soul.

This is the third stage in the nineteenth five-fold sequence. A period of trials is implied. The focalized mind may seek to escape its limits by venturing forth toward an idealized goal — the North Star, perhaps. This represents A TESTING OF THE WILL.

It means dealing with an endless winter on a mountain that you have to cross/finish some work there. Nobody to talk to besides God, only he knows what and how to make it out of the situation. But it's kinda like I am on a mission to preserve that deer to take it somewhere later, maybe to show/give it to somebody or have it help somebody. It could also be a punishment because I already killed one and wore it's furs/neglected the spirit. But I keep hiding in caves to play my flute and procrastinate

It's interesting because years ago, I had a dream that the Himalaya reached the window of my room (3rd floor in a building) and I could see an endless line of people on a path to a mountain top carrying huge baskets of Tibetan cherries (not that any grow there) of all kinds that somebody I loved had them bring for me. Endless tears that have ranked up since the beginning that is. I failed to preserve them the way I should preserve that deer. their NN is in conjunct with my Pluto.

It must be a punishment. All in all, it means heart under blade, like suggested elsewhere in my chart.
Well I have no doubt that this world is presently in a period of spiritual stagnation ( a stag - nation, kind of a funny play on words, don't you think?)
You may be one that will come to realize (or maybe you already have?) that you can lead people out of that condition, perhaps one that will provide ways or inspiration to help them persevere in such a cold world devoid of of spiritual sustenance. and by doing so they will find some faith knowing they are not alone in their suffering and they will carry on knowing that.

It could even mean, in the other sense suggested, that you are one to inspire them to renounce perceived obligations to the crass materialistic ways of the present times.

It's all good, just keep love in your heart and a smile on your face.

Remember, through irritation to the oyster a beautiful pearl is produced.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Yes, that is what I do, and Saturn made me walk the path alone so that I would learn the way to lead.

The deeper meaning, the one known only to me is what I shared here. I failed to preserve the deer in better conditions, so he's making me do it again, and he knows what he can make out of my task, I if succeed, so, this time the conditions are harsh.

I did a terrible thing that I shouldn't have. Maybe, if I didn't, that other person would have been happy now.

But there is still time.

Maybe I should have stuck to the idea of becoming a monk.

Thank you and I apologize once again, you are right, people could benefit from long posts.

Edit:

The day I was born, two saints are celebrated here, those who got married and agreed to part to different monasteries. I should have done that. Other than failing to preserve what I have found a treasure in this life, and using it for what is related to mundane (killing the first one to wear robes), and then being banished to a mountain to try to preserve it again, I must add the following:

The taming of the bull by Kakuan and other masters. In Rinzai master's Kakuan version of the work, there are 10 stages one undergoes to unite with the original Buddha nature by dealing with the ego.

What I have visualized is a peaceful deer that quietly follows the man that is a little tired. The deer never leaves his side, but he must watch just in case.

That is taming the physical, establishing control over one's lower nature by minding it at all times until it starts to follow. In order to achieve this, one must unite the lower nature of the animal with the superb consciousness. The spiritual growth cannot come from aggression, so it must be abolished in order to avoid dominance, destruction or concurring, but one rather needs to harmonize the two natures. Hence, abolishing the ego is wrong at this stage.

As a thought goes, another one follows, and another one after that, until an endless train of thoughts is evoked. Through enlightenment, all is transformed into the truth, and the false is confirmed when confusion overpowers the mind. Things pressure the mind not because of the objective world, but because of the self-deceptive mind. One must not stop seeking.

S. Zh.

Apparently, what I am doing wrong is trying to relinquish the ego forcefully.
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Question Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Pierce, I have to admit my erroneous findings like you said earlier, and I used the astrological parts calendar to find my part of (Hidden) Identity.

Again, something related to children...but closer to the 23rd degree in Aquarius, the sabian symbol shows something entirely different. The degrees right between my Sun (26'24") and Moon (20' 17").

22' 55" Aquarius

Aquarius 22
A rug placed on a floor for children to play on.
Aquarius 23
A big trained bear sitting down and waving all its paws.
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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Pierce, I have to admit my erroneous findings like you said earlier, and I used the astrological parts calendar to find my part of (Hidden) Identity.

Again, something related to children...but closer to the 23rd degree in Aquarius, the sabian symbol shows something entirely different. The degrees right between my Sun (26'24") and Moon (20' 17").

22' 55" Aquarius

Aquarius 22
A rug placed on a floor for children to play on.
Aquarius 23
A big trained bear sitting down and waving all its paws.

That is the 23rd degree and in fact it's nearly the 24th.

That's a symbol of spiritual discipleship...

Have you met your "Guru" (spiritual teacher) yet?

If not, I would suspect that he, or she, may be along ere too long!
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

As I posted the above prematurely without realizing it and only discovering my mistake some hours later upon returning to my computer, this is a late edit, in a sense, but rather than add it to the above post and risk having it be overlooked by those that have read that particular post already, I'm putting it into this new post with the heading that it is an "edit", or more rightly an addendum.
I apologize for my gaff. ptv


(Late Edit)

It doesn't necessarily mean anything so non secular either. As what Rudhyar stated in his analysis when He wrote;

"Keynote: The self-discipline which results from an intelligent development of individual faculties under proper training.

What constitutes the proper training of children or animals is a complex and much-disputed problem. The symbol seems to state simply that powerful life energies can be trained adequately — the implication or extension of the idea being that no training is really successful unless it leads to the realization of the value and power of self-discipline. We are constantly faced with situations which, whether we are aware of it or not, are in fact training situations; God or the Soul is the trainer. Much depends on the attitudes we assume in these situations."


It may very well mean that at some point in your life you will find yourself applying self discipline to your self and that you excel at the exercise. That you then also go out and encourage others to do the same...as like a "Life Coach" or some type of formalized self discipline.
It could even be that you were a much advanced yogi or disciple of a great spiritual master in your previous life and that the master, or their successor, will meet up with you again in this life, awaken you, and get you progressing again from the point left off at your passing in that previous life.

Of course, all of these stated possibilities are just that, my statements as that is how I see this particular Part working, my opinions. I may be correct as to everything I stated and yet there could also be a myriad of other ways that ""Self Discipline", on your own behalf, will eventually manifest themselves. You will be the one to recognize it when it does, most likely. As you are now aware of this Part and how it works, not to mention being a believer and practitioner of astrology yourself, you have the advantage over, probably, 99% of the rest of the population of the world.

Had I never been introduced to astrology, never taken it up as an interest, as a bit of a hobby like I did and also learned of the Sabian Symbols.., I would gone through life not having a clue as to anything about it and that such an astrological influence did exist and there likely would've never even been the slightest of noticable signs that I had an inherent proclivity, or potential to become knowledgeable in some study, or proficient of skill due to a "hidden" ability although at sometime in my life I might have looked at a Yantra, or mandala, and because of my studies and practices of the Vedic science of yoga I might have surprised a teacher, or myself, by one day, "just out of the Blue" demonstrating some inherent knack by correctly identifying a specific purpose for a Yantra I had never seen before...something as like that. Someone else that has the 23rd degree of Aquarius may be the long shot on one of those reality tv programs that surprises everyone, including their self, by demonstrating a astonishing application of self discipline and conquering their obesity, or fears or achieving some sort of similar goal.


Yet, that is so far off from the 7th or 8th degree of Taurus that you have been stating your Part of Hidden Identity to be that it caused me to double check and see if I was even in the same thread. How in the world did you get so far off? ( But this does demonstrate why I was more than just reluctant to spend time giving any sort of opinion or analysis on what you claimed to be your correct derivations... but than again, for all I know, they still may be in error, but you did state this time that you used the suggested calculator and you posted it in both Degree, minute of degree and in proper nomenclature and recognized notation. Thank you.)

At the Libra Centre Arabic Parts Calculator, in their drop down menu, it is listed as simply the Part of Identity.
To anyone that is planning on using their calculator, or any other websites or even if you plan on doing it the old fashioned way...by "long hand", that is to say with a sheet of paper and a pen or pencil, I do so recommend consulting the listing of Parts that I have in the Parts sub forum here and using that as the guide for all your Parts' formulae.

There are many Parts that I still haven't gotten around to checking out and verifying to my satisfaction that the titles given them are indeed correct or somewhat closely associated with the effect the title imply but in general, those that only utilize the Asc. as the personal point and the planets visible to the naked eye (the traditional "Arabic Parts") are for the most part safe to trust. Those that include the trans-Saturnian planets are another matter, but some of those I am more sure of than a number of the "Arabic Parts".
I don't believe in using, so called, nocturnal formulae and have yet to see one of them prove itself. This is an very ancient science of which the greater portion of the knowledge and most of the understanding has been lost since the "Golden Age" of mankind here on earth. The "Dark Ages'' were "Dark" in more ways than one. They're have been those that serve other than the "Truth" that have deliberately corrupted some techniques so as to lead others astray

Many Christian sects, probably most of them (the latest estimate is that there are between 30,000 and 40,000 different sects of Christianity presently) claiming that the "Bible" forbids the use of it. I know little of the "New Testament" as for the reason it has been so control in content by political concerns, mostly in the Vatican... but the "Old Testament", or Tanakh, most certainly doesn't forbid the use of Astrology. In fact it encourages the use of it so as to find the most appropriate time to conduct specified activities... and also says to abhor the use of "seers" to try to predict the future.
I only utilize the talents of my clairvoyant friend to "See" into the past or what is presently a condition. The Book of Isaiah says to use an astrologer when asking of the future as to find the times best suited for your planned endeavors. * It also advises using an astrologer that doesn't have to "divide up the Heavens" but preferably one that needs only to "meditate" on a chart to understand it. I don't know of any astrologers that are that good presently and doubt that there has been any for a few millennia...with possible exceptions of a few.

When in doubt of a stated influence, just remember that the influences placed in the firmament were placed there for 'spiritual evolution', that's not to say they don't have effect on matters of the temporal, just that there is nothing that was placed there that is deliberately, and singularly, malevolent. If you were karma free (sinless, or all debts of sin settled) and living a perfectly spiritual life, you would have no need to concern yourself of any potentially harmful or discomforting influences upon you from Astrological conditions.

But don't ever believe that any Particular Part is solely concerned with fattening your bank account or is hunting for you with bad intent. The Part of Fortune has nothing, or little, to do with wealth, but rather it has been wrongly translated as for what it really means is more that of 'Fortunate Times, Circumstances and Actions' that will allow you to become more fortunate as to fulfilling your destiny, completing your dharma, spiritually evolving. The Part of Increase and Benefits is that which is most likely to increase your bank account, but also indicates a more bountiful harvest, a better catch fishing, more livestock born to you ...and children too. The Part of Inheritance and Legacy is not about what your aunt left you in her will but rather what you have spiritually inherited and will, or should, in turn leave to the world grander than when you arrived... although it may just happen to be the day you receive word from a lawyer that an aunt left you something you'll value, need or cherish. Just don't believe that is all that it means

The so titled Part of Fatality & Tragedy is symbolically that which at the time of your death, the world will see it as a tragic loss to them as for what your absence leaves them bereft of... or may have been a blessing as for what your death resulted in... Martyrs for great cause come to mind here, selfless heroes, philanthropists, both great and small.

If you know of the chart I produced and personally believe to be an actual natal chart for the man known as Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth and do so yourself become reasonably convinced of its veracity, or have the faith to at least be willing to consider it, there is a listing of most of the known Astrological Parts derived from that chart in the Degree Symbolism sub form and you may like to consult that and see what Sabian Symbol from that chart is associated with which ever Part you may not feel a title is correct for, or may not understand how to apply symbolism to as many of them I have found to be quite obvious and hence why I titled the book I wrote about that chart, "A Template for the Time". As it does provide a template for understanding to work with.
For example; the Part of Catastrophe from that chart is a symbol of "Challenging political and religious institutions and power structures", that for the Part of Increase and Benefits is that of "Santa Claus furtively filling stockings", the Part of Fortunes' symbolism is "A Master instructing his disciple".
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Unread 07-11-2015, 10:32 AM
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

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Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
.
Apparently, what I am doing wrong is trying to relinquish the ego forcefully.
As author and yogi, Ram Das (nee: Richard Alpert) once wrote: "You cannot rip the skin from the snake."

It has to molt, naturally, on its own in its own time.
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Unread 07-11-2015, 06:23 PM
ALRESCHA ALRESCHA is offline
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

I beg your pardon, but, there is no snake.

How can you ever achieve अहूँ if your mind doesn't perceive the words well?

A great poet once wrote:


Is it true what's written in Kalevala:
The hand that provides is always above the hand that receives?
Is it true what they say in Basra:
Love is like a shadow,
If you run after it you will never catch up with it,
If you turn your back on it, it will follow you?


and then he explained:

Love is like strength: the more you use it, the more you’ll have it.

If you pull the rope, the bull sits and the magic is: it doesn't know why. Once you relinquish passion (attachment in my case), the bull follows. One must understand how the Buddha mind and the animal nature are the same.

Haven't you ever tried to contact any Arabic Astrologers? They have the list of the parts, they have the explanations. They still keep this ancient knowledge and it is a regular practice in the East for the people to go to their imam to have them read when to do what?
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
I beg your pardon, but, there is no snake.

How can you ever achieve अहूँ if your mind doesn't perceive the words well?

A great poet once wrote:


Is it true what's written in Kalevala:
The hand that provides is always above the hand that receives?
Is it true what they say in Basra:
Love is like a shadow,
If you run after it you will never catch up with it,
If you turn your back on it, it will follow you?


and then he explained:

Love is like strength: the more you use it, the more youll have it.

If you pull the rope, the bull sits and the magic is: it doesn't know why. Once you relinquish passion (attachment in my case), the bull follows. One must understand how the Buddha mind and the animal nature are the same.

Haven't you ever tried to contact any Arabic Astrologers? They have the list of the parts, they have the explanations. They still keep this ancient knowledge and it is a regular practice in the East for the people to go to their imam to have them read when to do what?
The snake is allegorical, the saying an aphorism.
What I wrote is in agreement, or confirmation, of your statement, or observation that perhaps you are trying to rush along your spiritual progress too quickly as given by a renowned and celebrated yogi of the Sanatan Dharm and disciple of a very beloved and respected Guru.

Is English a second language to you, as you seem unable to grasp some manners of speech, some of the colloquialisms and idioms, for two examples, that we Americans will often use?

I have no need to contact any astrologers, period. The lessons come when I need them. My mid haven and Part of Fortune share the same sign and degree, the 25th degree of Leo. As the M.C. is the "HOW" of a spiritually interpreted chart axis, and the Part of Fortune gives symbolic indication as how to best produce the most fortunate circumstances and, or conditions, to achieve my destiny, accomplish my dharma to do my sadhana the best manner to facilitate the most fortunate conditions to from which to proceed as to ''HOW"
To have ones Part of Fortune conjunct their mid have is considered to be among the most auspicious of signs to find on a natal chart as the method and the means are one and the same.

The symbolism for the 25th degree of Leo is by Rudhyar's analysis and estimation said to be: [ibid.]

"LEO 25: A LARGE CAMEL IS SEEN CROSSING A VAST AND FORBIDDING DESERT.

KEYNOTE:
Self-sufficiency in the face of a long and exhausting adventure.

The camel here represents a living organism that is able to sustain itself independently of its environment at the start of a trying journey. (The original formulation of the symbol did not refer to 'a man on camel back'.) The organism carries within itself what is absolutely needed for survival. At the deeper human level 'of consciousness it is easy to see the value of self-reliance and self-sufficiency as one enters the occult Path leading to a more dynamic and more inclusive realm of existence.

The camel carries water within its body, and it is said that the dromedary is able to utilize the matter stored in its large protuberance as food. The suggestion here is that in order to be released from bondage to the 'old world' we should be completely self-contained emotionally; having absorbed the mental food which this old culture has given us, we are ready to face 'the desert', nothingness, Sunya . . . until we reach the 'new world'. We need
TOTAL INDEPENDENCE from our surroundings and utter SELF-RELIANCE. "


As you can see, I was born to find my own way, when I see truth I know it, I can recognize what works and what doesn't and I'm not bound to any tradition in so that I have to honor it.

Astrological knowledge, technique and understanding had become terribly corrupted hundreds of years before the Arabs were even introduced to the subject. Most that recognize its corruption agree that it happened even before the Hellenic period of Greece. I say it happened even long before then. The Arabs studies and influences were mostly limited to the eighth and ninth century when they overran the ancient remnants of the Byzantine Empire which existed almost entirely during the time known as the "Dark Ages" when humankinds' knowledge and achievements were at their lowest measure and output in all of known recorded history.

By then the ancient astrological knowledge that was still mostly intact and uncorrupted during the peak of Egyptian and Babylonian culture had been fragmented and mixed with practices from many cultures far more ancient, Chaldean, Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Hermetic, Magian, Vedic, Aristotelian that were corrupted or partially lost when those civilizations were overrun which the Greek, Alexander was mostly responsible for and the Arabs got a great deal as to what Alexander left as a legacy from the Byzantines but Alexander was a very corrupting influence, though few recognize it. His first edict upon conquering any civilization or empire was "Abolish the Sun Cults and kill all of its priests."
The Sabian Symbol for the 20th degree of Leo is one of Zuni Indians Performing Sun Rites. From the ancient Sun Cults came the greatest knowledge of how the Spiritual and Astrological knowledge were one.
Sigmund Freud identified the Hebrews as being that of the old Aton religion of ancient Egypt and Edgar Cayce in turn said that the Aton belief system and knowledge came to Egypt with the sinking of the last remnants of Atlantis due to the actions of the Atlanteans that practiced a different belief system than that of the Aton. they were know as the Sons of Belial and it was because of they're actions that God destroyed Atlantis and scattered what was left of its people. Those of the believers and followers,the faithful of the Aton went into Egypt, this is one reason why the Tanakh is called by some Jews today as "The Big Book Of Hebrew Astrology", because it actually is to a Rabbi practiced in the use of the Kabbalah and knows how to interpret and extract that information.

The the Arabs took many of the sciences they found in the countries they overran and had the foresight to recognize the value of knowledge and continued on with what fragment s of these studies they had to work with.
It was the Arabs during the middle of the Dark Ages that linked together India and Europe, mostly through Spain but they used Horary astrology almost exclusively, the few recognized authorities they had, Albumassar [ninth century] his teacher Al-Kindi, whom translated Aristotle into Arabic and al-Biruni [tenth and eleventh century] whom was a Moslem but is said to have been of Zoroastrian or Magian ancestry out of Persia did travel extensively to study math and astrology in India but is said to have demonstrated very little understanding of what he saw and extensively recorded and wrote on.

That those three renowned Arabs left as their legacy is what became modern western astrology since being spread in Europe in the 13th - 14th century but was then further corrupted, or at the least stymied from making any growth or advances by the "Humanists" in Europe that had become so influential by the mid 15th century.

This is the same Astrology that is prevalent in the Occidental world presently and that I've been trying to rectify for the last 32 years...

That's why I really would rather not consult any current Arab astrologers nt to mention that my chart I produced and contend is the natal birth chart of the man from Nazareth disproves some of Mohammed's allegations that he was nothing more than a prophet. In fact it kind of blows them out of the water so to speak and thus I doubt if we would get along in the first place as to this subject of astrology. Other than that the few Moslem friends I have and I get along just fine... we just don't discuss religion or astrology when we get together.
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Unread 07-11-2015, 09:13 PM
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

OK...

I was just asking if it ever crossed your mind to try to fetch the list of the known parts from them.

Not only that I do understand what you say, and please forgive my poor English (and bare in mind that my cultural background had me develop a different sense of humor), but I can see your bone marrow. I hope that you understand.

This is so not the right thing to do, since your MC occupies the placement, but I shall say that, you may be 150 years old, spiritually, you are merely a child to my eyes. I am not hostile, I rather like you.

If I said that I value my independence in learning, I would have gotten attacked. I believe that I should withdraw, a TrMoon square to my natal Moon is coming.
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Unread 07-11-2015, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
OK...

I was just asking if it ever crossed your mind to try to fetch the list of the known parts from them.

Not only that I do understand what you say, and please forgive my poor English (and bare in mind that my cultural background had me develop a different sense of humor), but I can see your bone marrow. I hope that you understand.

This is so not the right thing to do, since your MC occupies the placement, but I shall say that, you may be 150 years old, spiritually, you are merely a child to my eyes. I am not hostile, I rather like you.

If I said that I value my independence in learning, I would have gotten attacked. I believe that I should withdraw, a TrMoon square to my natal Moon is coming.
Theres a large list of known parts in the forum from various sources.

You misjudge piercethevale if you believe you would be attacked for stating that you value independent thinking. He's always encouraged free thinking in the pursuit of truth. It wasnt until i sincerely asked the universe to be shown, more clearly, the truth, that i met piercethevale. That is no coincidence. Read any of his threads and you will understand that he is a huge supporter of earnest truth seeking.

We are all children in Gods eyes
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Unread 07-12-2015, 02:13 AM
ALRESCHA ALRESCHA is offline
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Re: The Part of Hidden Identity

edit:

We are!

I can't speak English so things come out wrong. What I meant was that I see no obstacle in achieving the greatest spiritual potential, but I tend to skip every step to the last (I want to erase the bull, but the bull is still there, I just choose not to see it, and then it wonders away). So, even though ptv is very spiritual, I am far more spiritual, so I have what it takes

'There is no snake has many meanings'

I lost my connection to this world at a very young age. Probably never had it, and my chart says I should pay attention to both sides: the here and the hereafter. No wonder I chose this username.

I know, I didn't think he would attack me, I read his posts regularly, I didn't misjudge him, he does not attack, he defends.

I wasn't talking about him, I was just saying how it goes for me.

I'll continue to read and study
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