I've been banned from astrology because of my Christianity

david starling

Well-known member
So as a personal opinion, you apparently consider Astrology = "a deeply-held religious belief" :smile:

I believe it can be so. But, not necessarily so. Vedic has religious implications, for example. Included in, not stand alone.
 
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abisert

Member
I don't think he'll ever reconsider. He doesn't know I'm still study astrology, and I think he has mentioned it a few times. Basically, what I'm trying to say is my dad would probably always always against it. He's a very committed Christian, and he's been adamant about a lot of things he told to me.

To confirm, I am a minor (and a boy) living at my parents house. I know I still want to study it, but I think I will never try to being him into this.

Seeing how my father is, and being under his wing, is there any alternative way I can still study astrology, or I have to quit it altogether.

@waybread I don't think I have, nor my parents have mentioned I'm in a denomination. I just consider myself just a Christian.

I've also heard Tessie got banned, which is sad but. What was she banned for? Was she being argumentative or something?
 

abisert

Member
Abisert, what church (if any) does your family attend? How much trouble will you be in if you're caught studying Astrology?

It's just a Christian chruch, really. If I could picture myself getting in trouble, I imagine my dad being furious, scolding the whole thing, and shove some Bible text to wake me up.

It just would be horrible.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Seeing how my father is, and being under his wing, is there any alternative way I can still study astrology, or I have to quit it altogether.
Can you study astrology without your father finding out?

If you can, that's your answer. If you can't, then the only other possibility, if your father will stop you as soon as he knows, is to wait until you've left home. When you're not living with him, he'll have no way of knowing what you're doing unless you tell him, and you obviously won't tell him about the astrology.

If, however, you leave home for a strict Christian college, they'll probably have their own rules and their own ways of stopping you.

@waybread I don't think I have, nor my parents have mentioned I'm in a denomination. I just consider myself just a Christian.
United Fundamentalist Baptist? Or nondenominational evangelical? Those are the groups that come to my mind who just call themselves Christians. Still, you are obviously not, say, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Menonnite or Methodist... those denominations would identify themselves by denomination.

I've also heard Tessie got banned, which is sad but. What was she banned for? Was she being argumentative or something?
This is all the moderators are willing to tell us. But it obviously was not just one thing she did. People don't get banned around here just for being argumentative, and they don't get banned just for doing one particular thing, unless that one particular thing is posting spam or harassing someone. They get banned if there's some ongoing pattern of causing trouble. Tessie got into lots of arguments in the time she was here, made lots of posts the moderators deleted as attacks, and it sounds like she bothered the moderators a lot, too.
 

abisert

Member
This is all the moderators are willing to tell us. But it obviously was not just one thing she did. People don't get banned around here just for being argumentative, and they don't get banned just for doing one particular thing, unless that one particular thing is posting spam or harassing someone. They get banned if there's some ongoing pattern of causing trouble. Tessie got into lots of arguments in the time she was here, made lots of posts the moderators deleted as attacks, and it sounds like she bothered the moderators a lot, too.[/QUOTE]

Ah, I see. As for my astrological studies, I guess I'll just have to see.
 

waybread

Well-known member
abisert, if your church were a member of a particular denomination like Baptist or Methodist, your parents or pastor would probably have mentioned it. There are many independent churches.

Nobody here can tell you what you should do. You have gotten a lot of different advice to look at. Now you have to decide.
 
I don't think he'll ever reconsider. He doesn't know I'm still study astrology, and I think he has mentioned it a few times. Basically, what I'm trying to say is my dad would probably always always against it. He's a very committed Christian, and he's been adamant about a lot of things he told to me.

To confirm, I am a minor (and a boy) living at my parents house. I know I still want to study it, but I think I will never try to being him into this.

Seeing how my father is, and being under his wing, is there any alternative way I can still study astrology, or I have to quit it altogether.

@waybread I don't think I have, nor my parents have mentioned I'm in a denomination. I just consider myself just a Christian.

I've also heard Tessie got banned, which is sad but. What was she banned for? Was she being argumentative or something?

Hey Abisert. I grew up in a similar situation. I can remember my dad taking me to a book shop because I had talked about this book I wanted so much...he freaked out once he realized it was a book from the 'new age' section. Basically, you are torn between loyalty to your dad and the urge to seek and discover your own self. Your time will come when you can do that, please refer to my previous posts a couple pages previously for what I wrote about that.

As long as your dad loves you and you love him, I say give up astrology for now 'while you are under his roof.' Or....if you are a Uranus child, you'll study what you want but you may find he comes down harder on you (that's what happened to me). When you are an adult, hopefully your dad will realize the differences between you are ok. Plus, if he is SO against astrology, is it because he is more intune with it than he likes to admit?
 
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abisert

Member
Hey Abisert. I grew up in a similar situation. I can remember my dad taking me to a book shop because I had talked about this book I wanted so much...he freaked out once he realized it was a book from the 'new age' section. Basically, you are torn between loyalty to your dad and the urge to seek and discover your own self. Your time will come when you can do that, please refer to my previous posts a couple pages previously for what I wrote about that.

As long as your dad loves you and you love him, I say give up astrology for now 'while you are under his roof.' Or....if you are a Uranus child, you'll study what you want but you may find he comes down harder on you (that's what happened to me). When you are an adult, hopefully your dad will realize the differences between you are ok. Plus, if he is SO against astrology, is it because he is more intune with it than he likes to admit?

Uranus person? I don't know about that, but I do have a lot of air in my chart.

Then again, I may or may not come back. It really depends whenther I want to, but quitting is probably best for my spirituality. But whatever, I'll see how it goes.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Uranus person? I don't know about that, but I do have a lot of air in my chart.

If Uranus is very strongly placed in your chart, you're an Uranus person. Strongly placed could mean several things: on one of your angles, aspecting or conjunct your sun or moon, in a stellium, making lots of strong aspects... and if you have Uranus in Aquarius, which you definitely do if you're between the ages of 13 and 17, it's domiciled, which gives it some strength right there.

If you are a Uranus person, you have a strong need to do things your own way, whether or not it's the conventional way or the way you're told to do them.
 

tikana

Well-known member
Uranus person? I don't know about that, but I do have a lot of air in my chart.

Then again, I may or may not come back. It really depends whenther I want to, but quitting is probably best for my spirituality. But whatever, I'll see how it goes.


Abisert, I am not fanatical on any religion or faith for that matter I am def a F = G*((m sub 1*m sub 2)/r^2)ist. But if anyone ever questions your faith and or astrology, all you need to quote are 2 things.

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" Luke

Daniel 2:10 NIV, informs us, "The astrologers answered the king, 'There is not a man on earth who can do what the king asks! No king, however great and mighty, has ever asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or astrologer.' "

cheers
 
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david starling

Well-known member
(Strongly anti-authoritarian Chart here.) LOTS of fathers feel compelled to run power-trips on their children. Religion is as good an excuse as any.:annoyed:
 

abisert

Member
If Uranus is very strongly placed in your chart, you're an Uranus person. Strongly placed could mean several things: on one of your angles, aspecting or conjunct your sun or moon, in a stellium, making lots of strong aspects... and if you have Uranus in Aquarius, which you definitely do if you're between the ages of 13 and 17, it's domiciled, which gives it some strength right there.

If you are a Uranus person, you have a strong need to do things your own way, whether or not it's the conventional way or the way you're told to do them.

I do have Uranus in Aquarius, but I've done research and it appears to be that Venus is my dominant planet.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Uranus person? I don't know about that, but I do have a lot of air in my chart.

Then again, I may or may not come back. It really depends whenther I want to, but quitting is probably best for my spirituality. But whatever, I'll see how it goes.

You may have your answer right here.
 
Don't know if the things I'm going to say have been covered yet, since I'm still reading the topic, but I wanted to put my thoughts down before I get distracted by more thoughts, so my apologies if I rehash or subvert an earlier response.

Number one, Christianity *is* astrological, as was the Judaic faith that preceded it. There are so many astrological symbolisms used in the bible, it's kinda pathetic that Christian scholars haven't noticed them, yet. Revelations is the most prime example, since it's the most-talked-about, the last book, and since it is so flush with astrological symbolism and other related metaphysical principles. The six-winged "living creatures" (or Seraphim, the angels high enough to attend God's throne) are the four fixed signs of the zodiac, as illustrated by the descriptions of them and the fact that the "eyes" all over them ("even under their wings") are analogous to stars, since they look like eyes peering out of the darkness. And since the sky is also called the "heavens", it makes sense that the ancient Hebrews would've considered the fixed signs the attendants of God's throne... in heaven.

Additionally, it should be noted that the original Hebrew word that is so often translated to "astrology" is more-closely translated to "star talkers." But since we have no word for "star talkers" and Christianity rightly feels threatened at the potential for astrology to take it's place as a platform for spiritual development, they used the word astrology when naming off the forms of prognostications taboo to their religion.

There are a number of ideological and sociological reasons for Christians to hate on such a beneficial subject, mostly because they're prone to lapses of logic as promoted by all-consuming zealous faith, but what strikes me as odd is that they don't condemn psychology, even though it shares the same purpose.

Recommendation: Ask your dad, very politely and very respectfully to hear you out on something, but don't tell him what at first. Tell him you want to talk about something and you know he's going to have a hard time with it, but you want to respect his wishes while also growing as a person, so you're trying to go about it the right way. Then sit him down and tell him to just let you speak your part before he interrupts.

After that, tell him calmly, respectfully and confidently that you've read up enough on the subject to know it isn't pagan in origin, it's a science that has been in continual development for thousands of years, and it has substance. It isn't magic, because magic it's ridiculous. (Whether or not that's true isn't relevant; he'll be impressed by your pragmatism, unless I miss my guess.) Then explain that Christianity isn't against astrology, it's against star-worship and "false prophesy." Astrology is neither. It's an examination of the self using statistical comparisons developed by very mathematically brilliant people. Tell him it can be used to make predictions, but about general circumstances, not specific events, so it's no more a "prophesy" than the weather forecast.

But make it abundantly clear that in restricting your ability to learn more on the subject, he's just keeping you from obtaining deeper self-understanding. Ask him that, as a parent, shouldn't he be encouraging your self-knowledge, rather than hobbling that search for your inner self.

I'd follow it up but suggesting that if he honestly feels like it's such a negative thing, would he mind looking into it with you, to try to see the subject from your perspective rather than just saying what the church has told him even though they have avoided learning about it for the exact same reasons he has.

That's my two cents on this. Now to see if you're even still a member here...
 

david starling

Well-known member
Don't know if the things I'm going to say have been covered yet, since I'm still reading the topic, but I wanted to put my thoughts down before I get distracted by more thoughts, so my apologies if I rehash or subvert an earlier response.

Number one, Christianity *is* astrological, as was the Judaic faith that preceded it. There are so many astrological symbolisms used in the bible, it's kinda pathetic that Christian scholars haven't noticed them, yet. Revelations is the most prime example, since it's the most-talked-about, the last book, and since it is so flush with astrological symbolism and other related metaphysical principles. The six-winged "living creatures" (or Seraphim, the angels high enough to attend God's throne) are the four fixed signs of the zodiac, as illustrated by the descriptions of them and the fact that the "eyes" all over them ("even under their wings") are analogous to stars, since they look like eyes peering out of the darkness. And since the sky is also called the "heavens", it makes sense that the ancient Hebrews would've considered the fixed signs the attendants of God's throne... in heaven.

Additionally, it should be noted that the original Hebrew word that is so often translated to "astrology" is more-closely translated to "star talkers." But since we have no word for "star talkers" and Christianity rightly feels threatened at the potential for astrology to take it's place as a platform for spiritual development, they used the word astrology when naming off the forms of prognostications taboo to their religion.

There are a number of ideological and sociological reasons for Christians to hate on such a beneficial subject, mostly because they're prone to lapses of logic as promoted by all-consuming zealous faith, but what strikes me as odd is that they don't condemn psychology, even though it shares the same purpose.

Recommendation: Ask your dad, very politely and very respectfully to hear you out on something, but don't tell him what at first. Tell him you want to talk about something and you know he's going to have a hard time with it, but you want to respect his wishes while also growing as a person, so you're trying to go about it the right way. Then sit him down and tell him to just let you speak your part before he interrupts.

After that, tell him calmly, respectfully and confidently that you've read up enough on the subject to know it isn't pagan in origin, it's a science that has been in continual development for thousands of years, and it has substance. It isn't magic, because magic it's ridiculous. (Whether or not that's true isn't relevant; he'll be impressed by your pragmatism, unless I miss my guess.) Then explain that Christianity isn't against astrology, it's against star-worship and "false prophesy." Astrology is neither. It's an examination of the self using statistical comparisons developed by very mathematically brilliant people. Tell him it can be used to make predictions, but about general circumstances, not specific events, so it's no more a "prophesy" than the weather forecast.

But make it abundantly clear that in restricting your ability to learn more on the subject, he's just keeping you from obtaining deeper self-understanding. Ask him that, as a parent, shouldn't he be encouraging your self-knowledge, rather than hobbling that search for your inner self.

I'd follow it up but suggesting that if he honestly feels like it's such a negative thing, would he mind looking into it with you, to try to see the subject from your perspective rather than just saying what the church has told him even though they have avoided learning about it for the exact same reasons he has.

That's my two cents on this. Now to see if you're even still a member here...

I don't think it's really about Christianity or Astrology. It's about a dictatorial guardian demanding absolute obedience and practicing mind-control--the exact thing Carlin was so adamant against.
 
I don't think it's really about Christianity or Astrology. It's about a dictatorial guardian demanding absolute obedience and practicing mind-control--the exact thing Carlin was so adamant against.

I agree that that is the objective of the issue, but the means of achieving that dominion is dogmatism against an unknown. I believe that in this instance, direct and reasonable opposition of that decree is what is called for. The kid knows this stuff's good for him, but I don't know that he knows how best to articulate his position to his father. I'm sure his father doesn't mean any harm, he's just insecure because his faith fails to provide him with the fundamental intellectual maturity needed to think for himself. But his faith also forbids him from seeking said maturity, so it's a catch-22 the kid's dad can't get out of. Same as any other brand or variety of reinforced ideological co-dependency. The kid's gonna have to grow up fast or be smothered to metaphorical death. I feel bad when peoples' situations are so f*cked-up as that, but in some ways, I suppose it has potential for good. We don't get stronger by relaxing. We get stronger by being challenged by things that initially outweigh us.
 
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