david starling
Well-known member
Trump? Wasn't he that orange-complected guy who caused such a stir back in the early 20s for not acknowledging that he wasn't re-elected?
Random Thoughts, strictly Text
- Thread starter david starling
- Start date
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Oh, you have out of bounds planets too, passiflora? I have two. Both the most angular planets in my chart. I have not gotten a hold of literature that goes into it in-depth, and have almost certainly seen the majority of what is said about these placements on the free web. Nothing freely available seems adequate to me.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Usain Bolt has an extremely out-of-bounds Mars exalted in Capricorn. Exceptionalism like his probably comes once in a century.
david starling
Well-known member
Looking around, "exceptional ability in one area" seems to be something of a consensus.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
What does that say about signs that these out-of-bounds planets most occur? (Gemini, Cancer, Sagittarius, Capricorn)
david starling
Well-known member
Probably depends on which planets are in which Signs.
Mars in Cap sets an example.
Osamenor
Staff member
The reason out of bounds planets occur in those signs is because they're the signs that start or end at solstice points. Planets have to be near a solstice point to go out of bounds. It has to do with those points being where the sun reaches its maximum declination.
Solstice energy is a kind of out of bounds energy in itself, if you think about it. Consider the lore attached to Christmas/Yule and midsummer traditions. Fairies run amok, Twelfth Night, lord of misrule, magic times... those points seem to be portals for out of the ordinary things.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Thanks for filling me in on the astronomical reasoning.
That explanation actually triggered a connection in my mind with the Thema Mundi. Gemini, Cancer, Sagittarius and Capricorn are the 12th, 1st, 6th and 7th houses respectively.
A Hellenistic Case for Evolutionary Astrology
Is there a connection whispering underneath all of these various astrological principles that are seemingly unrelated?
That explanation actually triggered a connection in my mind with the Thema Mundi. Gemini, Cancer, Sagittarius and Capricorn are the 12th, 1st, 6th and 7th houses respectively.
A Hellenistic Case for Evolutionary Astrology
Is there a connection whispering underneath all of these various astrological principles that are seemingly unrelated?
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leomoon
Well-known member
Passiflora: I'd say that's a pretty good answer you gave, i.e. "Moon out of bounds" goes it alone whenever possible.
Some more that I saved years ago:
Out of Bounds Planets
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=33&orig=
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=34
Solstice Points -- The Antiscion[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]
In the picture we have an out of proportion, but serviceable rendering of the theory behind antiscion points and using them as the co-declination equivalents. The heavy dark lines show the elliptical ecliptic path and the celestial equator. As you recall, when the Sun is at 0 Aries or 0 Libra it is at 0 degrees declination [FONT="]and[/FONT] longitude and located at the equator. As it travels from 0 Aries towards 0 Cancer it also increases in declination until it reaches its maximum declination of 23°27.5' at 0 Cancer . The point marked as 11' N 00 DEC. is the declination of the Sun when at 28AR40 longitude. If you follow the horizontal line across to the other side of the ecliptic, the parallel point has a longitude of 1VI20. If you check in the ephemeris you will see that the Sun's declination is also at 11° in the fall when the Sun is at 1VI20 longitude.
The antiscion points are the equal distance as measured from 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn to the celestial equator and when the Sun arrives at the same degree of declination. Therefore, 28AR40 = 11 degrees declination north = 1VI20. If the Sun is at 28AR40 by longitude , the solstice point will be 1VI20 since the Sun will be at the same degree of declination then and parallel by that horizontal line. You will also notice that the degrees add up to 30 total degrees. This is always the case. Any planet at 11 degrees north declination will be at either 28AR40 or 1VI20 by longitudinal conversion. The conversion degrees and planetary zodiacal longitude will only be the same when the planet is on the ecliptic. By the same token, any two planets at these two degrees will be in parallel of declination.
Aries will always equal Virgo, Taurus will always equal Leo, Gemini will always equal Cancer, and the southern declinations will reverse. Libra=Pisces, Scorpio=Aquarius, Sagittarius=Capricorn.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] Margaret Hone's Textbook of Astrology says to make note of planets in parallel or contraparallel and interpret those as mild conjunctions or oppositions. My older textbooks from the 20's and 30's lists the aspect interpretations for the planet conjunct and/or parallel, as well as oppositions and/or contraparallel. Raphael's Ephemeris lists not only the declinations, but also the distances apart of conjunctions and oppositions by declination.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Recently there has been a resurgence of interest in Kt Boehrer's book, Declinations, The Other Dimension written in 1974. Ed Dearborn published an article in AFA's Today's Astrologer in the spring of 96.
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Declination Charts[/FONT][FONT="] are charts using the declinations translated into longitudinal equivalents as described in Kt Boehrer's book so we can better see the activity or "essences" of a planet, as Ed Dearborn called these equivalent points. Astrologers have only looked at the parallel or contraparallel, but by this method other formations may be viewed within a chart. [/FONT][FONT="]
Denlinger Declination Charts use only the longitudinal equivalents and their solstice points in the common chart wheel to explore these energies.
So many times a transit appears to wait until after it is exact by longitude to manifest, or it "hurries" up and is in operation sooner than expected. The explanation by conventional astrologers is that "some planets have a wider orb", or "Saturn is slow", or, "this is a sensitive soul" etc. However, once you start [/FONT][FONT="]using the declination equivalents[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]you will see that the planet has another two locations in a chart, and that these are what actually are triggered when transits or progressions appear to be activated early or late.[/FONT][FONT="] Declination Charts show the third dimension of the planetary energies [/FONT][FONT="]and let an astrologer view it in the format that he is accustomed to using -- the chart wheel. With a Declination Chart you will see where the planet really is located.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]Also, we should observe the times when planets or other bodies cross these cardinal points, either by change of direction across the ecliptic at 0 declination or when going OOB or returning from outside the solar path and crossing 23°27.5' of declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]It follows that planets at these degrees of declination, either 23°27.5' or 0° will be at a crucial point. These are the turning points of the solar energy. Actions and changes and events happen along the ecliptic. Therefore it would be wise to consider carefully any planetary bodies falling on these points by declination in the natal chart, the progressed chart or by transit. [/FONT][FONT="]
Also, we should observe the times when planets or other bodies cross these cardinal points, either by change of direction across the ecliptic at 0 declination or when going OOB or returning from outside the solar path and crossing 23°27.5' of declination.
A significant point to ponder is that the Moon's Nodes in their approximate 19 year cycle are tied to declination. When the Moon's orbit coincides with the 0 point of Aries the ascending Node will be at Aries or crossing the ecliptic, and the Moon then attains its greatest declination to the Earth's equator during its 19 year cycle, about 28°35'. However, it can continue to exceed the bounds over and over again for several months. In 1950 the Moon's declination was at 28°44' on September 19th. About 9.5 years later when the ascending node crossed the autumnal equinox point ( 0 Libra), the Moon reached its minimum declination for the 19 year cycle. In 1959 this was 18°10'. And it remained well within the bounds of the solar path for many months thereafter[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
Some more that I saved years ago:
Out of Bounds Planets
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=33&orig=
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=34
Solstice Points -- The Antiscion[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]
In the picture we have an out of proportion, but serviceable rendering of the theory behind antiscion points and using them as the co-declination equivalents. The heavy dark lines show the elliptical ecliptic path and the celestial equator. As you recall, when the Sun is at 0 Aries or 0 Libra it is at 0 degrees declination [FONT="]and[/FONT] longitude and located at the equator. As it travels from 0 Aries towards 0 Cancer it also increases in declination until it reaches its maximum declination of 23°27.5' at 0 Cancer . The point marked as 11' N 00 DEC. is the declination of the Sun when at 28AR40 longitude. If you follow the horizontal line across to the other side of the ecliptic, the parallel point has a longitude of 1VI20. If you check in the ephemeris you will see that the Sun's declination is also at 11° in the fall when the Sun is at 1VI20 longitude.
The antiscion points are the equal distance as measured from 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn to the celestial equator and when the Sun arrives at the same degree of declination. Therefore, 28AR40 = 11 degrees declination north = 1VI20. If the Sun is at 28AR40 by longitude , the solstice point will be 1VI20 since the Sun will be at the same degree of declination then and parallel by that horizontal line. You will also notice that the degrees add up to 30 total degrees. This is always the case. Any planet at 11 degrees north declination will be at either 28AR40 or 1VI20 by longitudinal conversion. The conversion degrees and planetary zodiacal longitude will only be the same when the planet is on the ecliptic. By the same token, any two planets at these two degrees will be in parallel of declination.
Aries will always equal Virgo, Taurus will always equal Leo, Gemini will always equal Cancer, and the southern declinations will reverse. Libra=Pisces, Scorpio=Aquarius, Sagittarius=Capricorn.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] Margaret Hone's Textbook of Astrology says to make note of planets in parallel or contraparallel and interpret those as mild conjunctions or oppositions. My older textbooks from the 20's and 30's lists the aspect interpretations for the planet conjunct and/or parallel, as well as oppositions and/or contraparallel. Raphael's Ephemeris lists not only the declinations, but also the distances apart of conjunctions and oppositions by declination.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Recently there has been a resurgence of interest in Kt Boehrer's book, Declinations, The Other Dimension written in 1974. Ed Dearborn published an article in AFA's Today's Astrologer in the spring of 96.
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Declination Charts[/FONT][FONT="] are charts using the declinations translated into longitudinal equivalents as described in Kt Boehrer's book so we can better see the activity or "essences" of a planet, as Ed Dearborn called these equivalent points. Astrologers have only looked at the parallel or contraparallel, but by this method other formations may be viewed within a chart. [/FONT][FONT="]
Denlinger Declination Charts use only the longitudinal equivalents and their solstice points in the common chart wheel to explore these energies.
So many times a transit appears to wait until after it is exact by longitude to manifest, or it "hurries" up and is in operation sooner than expected. The explanation by conventional astrologers is that "some planets have a wider orb", or "Saturn is slow", or, "this is a sensitive soul" etc. However, once you start [/FONT][FONT="]using the declination equivalents[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]you will see that the planet has another two locations in a chart, and that these are what actually are triggered when transits or progressions appear to be activated early or late.[/FONT][FONT="] Declination Charts show the third dimension of the planetary energies [/FONT][FONT="]and let an astrologer view it in the format that he is accustomed to using -- the chart wheel. With a Declination Chart you will see where the planet really is located.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]Also, we should observe the times when planets or other bodies cross these cardinal points, either by change of direction across the ecliptic at 0 declination or when going OOB or returning from outside the solar path and crossing 23°27.5' of declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]It follows that planets at these degrees of declination, either 23°27.5' or 0° will be at a crucial point. These are the turning points of the solar energy. Actions and changes and events happen along the ecliptic. Therefore it would be wise to consider carefully any planetary bodies falling on these points by declination in the natal chart, the progressed chart or by transit. [/FONT][FONT="]
Also, we should observe the times when planets or other bodies cross these cardinal points, either by change of direction across the ecliptic at 0 declination or when going OOB or returning from outside the solar path and crossing 23°27.5' of declination.
A significant point to ponder is that the Moon's Nodes in their approximate 19 year cycle are tied to declination. When the Moon's orbit coincides with the 0 point of Aries the ascending Node will be at Aries or crossing the ecliptic, and the Moon then attains its greatest declination to the Earth's equator during its 19 year cycle, about 28°35'. However, it can continue to exceed the bounds over and over again for several months. In 1950 the Moon's declination was at 28°44' on September 19th. About 9.5 years later when the ascending node crossed the autumnal equinox point ( 0 Libra), the Moon reached its minimum declination for the 19 year cycle. In 1959 this was 18°10'. And it remained well within the bounds of the solar path for many months thereafter[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
leomoon
Well-known member
When I thought I'd study this, (but never really jumped into it with two feet afterall....
)
I made these notes:
[FONT="]interesting that Bernie Sanders also has an OOB [/FONT][FONT="]Mercury[/FONT][FONT="] Seems to me that this position is evident in people who have a timely message or have a gift and a need for communicating by the spoken word. Others with OOB[/FONT][FONT="] Mercury [/FONT][FONT="]include Pope Francis, Jack Kevorkian and Emily Dickinson.[/FONT]
It seems on the face of it, these people with the OOB Mercury - really do things their OWN unique way, and don't follow others as much as their brethren might without an oob Mercury?
It can bring uniqueness of thinking OR (as with me) scattered thinking...hard to focus and needs to remind myself to do so. Thinking of too many things at one time.
D.J.Trump Sr. Mercury OOB – and Pluto both – (law unto himself, and backwards thinking)
Melania – possibly her Moon
Ivanka – her Venus is OOB
Barron Trump – his Moon and Mars both OOB (Moon S Mars N) and his Sun is 0 degrees .07’
Deb – Mercury & Pluto (scattered thinking and law unto self)
(Still unsure if I even did this correctly, I'll have to check again) and correct, if not.
)I made these notes:
[FONT="]interesting that Bernie Sanders also has an OOB [/FONT][FONT="]Mercury[/FONT][FONT="] Seems to me that this position is evident in people who have a timely message or have a gift and a need for communicating by the spoken word. Others with OOB[/FONT][FONT="] Mercury [/FONT][FONT="]include Pope Francis, Jack Kevorkian and Emily Dickinson.[/FONT]
It seems on the face of it, these people with the OOB Mercury - really do things their OWN unique way, and don't follow others as much as their brethren might without an oob Mercury?
It can bring uniqueness of thinking OR (as with me) scattered thinking...hard to focus and needs to remind myself to do so. Thinking of too many things at one time.
D.J.Trump Sr. Mercury OOB – and Pluto both – (law unto himself, and backwards thinking)
Melania – possibly her Moon
Ivanka – her Venus is OOB
Barron Trump – his Moon and Mars both OOB (Moon S Mars N) and his Sun is 0 degrees .07’
Deb – Mercury & Pluto (scattered thinking and law unto self)
(Still unsure if I even did this correctly, I'll have to check again) and correct, if not.
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leomoon
Well-known member
[FONT="]An OOBs planet[/FONT][FONT="]denotes a condition where the planet is orbiting outside the earthly plane and though it may be in aspect with other planets, there is something distant, untouchable, or otherworldly about it. With its energy acting upon the Unconscious, we might say it is hidden from the native's conscious mind and acts in an uncontrolled way. A measure of secrecy and lawlessness may be involved in the planet's activities and this secrecy may 'rub off' on the planet/s it touches by aspect, if it is aspected.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]If you visit the Astrodienst page for charts, and choose the regular "round" chart we all prefer to post - then when it pops up, look to the far left on top of that page and you'll see options like this:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="](drawing for Subscribers)[/FONT]
[FONT="]and
[/FONT][FONT="]Additional Pages - pdf
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Click the "additional pages pdf" and you will see your chart's OOB planets (the Declinations)
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]My Mercury is 24°21 12 S Declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]My BML is 25°01 S Declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="](so I made a mistake, its not the Moon for me, (it is for my husband however), and the description fits him very well. He will never ask for help NEVER. Prefers doing everything himself.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]For me, Mercury feels right ' because I am somewhat scattered brained, lol . and when young my little sister would yell, "Tell her to stop mom, tell her to stop" "She's staring again" as I'd go into my own little staring world and zonk out of this one.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Remember, you are looking at your natal chart, but then look in the far right hand upper corner for PDF "Additional Tables"
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]If you visit the Astrodienst page for charts, and choose the regular "round" chart we all prefer to post - then when it pops up, look to the far left on top of that page and you'll see options like this:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="](drawing for Subscribers)[/FONT]
[FONT="]and
[/FONT][FONT="]Additional Pages - pdf
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Click the "additional pages pdf" and you will see your chart's OOB planets (the Declinations)
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]My Mercury is 24°21 12 S Declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]My BML is 25°01 S Declination[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="](so I made a mistake, its not the Moon for me, (it is for my husband however), and the description fits him very well. He will never ask for help NEVER. Prefers doing everything himself.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]For me, Mercury feels right ' because I am somewhat scattered brained, lol . and when young my little sister would yell, "Tell her to stop mom, tell her to stop" "She's staring again" as I'd go into my own little staring world and zonk out of this one.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Remember, you are looking at your natal chart, but then look in the far right hand upper corner for PDF "Additional Tables"
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
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leomoon
Well-known member
My Mercury is in Capricorn and yes, square Neptune. Actually, I have Sun-Mars-Merc all in this sign in the 6th, so out of the 3, Merc-Mars square Neptune. I don't sleepwalk, never did, but I do space out from time to time still.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
@passiflora
Here's a book that goes through the fundamentals of traditional astrology from the basis of the Thema Mundi chart. I found it to be a very good introductory textbook.
https://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Universe-Astrology-Thema-Mundi/dp/1543403778
There's also a companion book that I've never read, but based on my first whirl I'd be willing to pick it up. Perhaps you might beat me to the punch if you find it compelling enough.
Here's a book that goes through the fundamentals of traditional astrology from the basis of the Thema Mundi chart. I found it to be a very good introductory textbook.
https://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Universe-Astrology-Thema-Mundi/dp/1543403778
There's also a companion book that I've never read, but based on my first whirl I'd be willing to pick it up. Perhaps you might beat me to the punch if you find it compelling enough.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
That's where doing your own legwork comes in
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
It's often called a pedagogical tool whenever it's introduced, and the book I linked does a good job of using it as a teaching tool, but I've personally view it as a basis of inspiration or connecting various streams of astrological thought together -- dowsing for endless meaning like you said. Like I've had personal musings on Libra's position and laws of Ma'at, and also how the exaltations of the Malefics are aligned with houses traditionally related to death. Another interesting one is Scorpio's position as the 5 sign, and how in contemporary times Scorpio has been the sign most associated with sexuality.
One could have the Leo Sun, Virgo Mercury and Libra Venus simultaneously so it's a plausible chart that one could have. I remember encountering a chart of a 1900s Pulitzer prize winner with all 7 planets in domicile, and if memory serves his lineup was the same domiciles outlined in the Thema Mundi.
I hear you on the time factor. It's a pesky problem.
One could have the Leo Sun, Virgo Mercury and Libra Venus simultaneously so it's a plausible chart that one could have. I remember encountering a chart of a 1900s Pulitzer prize winner with all 7 planets in domicile, and if memory serves his lineup was the same domiciles outlined in the Thema Mundi.
I hear you on the time factor. It's a pesky problem.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Speaking of efficient use of learning time, have you ever heard about this?
https://www.blinkist.com/en/nc/books
I've not used it personally but it seems like a valuable service. I might invest in it in the future.
https://www.blinkist.com/en/nc/books
I've not used it personally but it seems like a valuable service. I might invest in it in the future.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Also here is another horoscope of the world found in the Zoroastrianism tradition. This seems to be based mostly on religious cosmology. Instead of the domiciles, the planets are placed in their exaltations, save for Mercury. Link below if anyone wants to know more.
Horoscope of the World
Horoscope of the World
leomoon
Well-known member
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Anytime leomoon
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
The Esoteric Astrologers a la Alice Bailey has the Earth as the esoteric ruler of Sagittarius, supposedly because the highest expression of Sagittarius energy is it's use in focused, practical aims/service. The doer, not dreamer. As arguably the most mundane house, the 6th could be a hedge against spacey Sag energy.
The Sagittarians I've admired the most were all committed to making their visions a reality.
The Sagittarians I've admired the most were all committed to making their visions a reality.