Vedic Astrology questions

curiousgal

Well-known member
I had a couple of questions in going through the basics of vedic astrology

(1) When trying to read what does 1st lord in 2nd house mean, do we look at the Rasi Chart or the Bhava chart?
(2) Similarly, if I have to look for say planets in houses eg., Mars in Taurus, would I look at the Rasi chart or the Bhava chart?

I can see in the Bhava chart that some of the planets have moved houses and signs....hence this confusion.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I have avoided these problems by making the rasi chart and the bhava chart identical: I do this by using the whole sign house format, originally used throughout BOTH the East and the West, but now (in Vedic astrology) continued only by the Jaimini school of practice.
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
I had a couple of questions in going through the basics of vedic astrology

(1) When trying to read what does 1st lord in 2nd house mean, do we look at the Rasi Chart or the Bhava chart?
(2) Similarly, if I have to look for say planets in houses eg., Mars in Taurus, would I look at the Rasi chart or the Bhava chart?

I can see in the Bhava chart that some of the planets have moved houses and signs....hence this confusion.

I, schoolless so far,
have relied on the obvious?

First the sign and then the bhavas and adding the so called Jaimini coordinates that BPHS always included but for some reason others seem to separate from BPHS?

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I believe that all classical literature prior to Sripati (c1000 AD) applied, fundamentally, whole signs (and used special bhava constructs only for making various specific analyses, as Hellenists used trisection of arc-ie "porphyry"-quadrant analysis only for making judgements regarding angularity and relative planetary strengths, but using whole sign format for delineation of houses)
Signs always predominant-as Varahamihira said, "Planets have their lives IN THE SIGNS..."
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
I believe that all classical literature prior to Sripati (c1000 AD) applied, fundamentally, whole signs (and used special bhava constructs only for making various specific analyses, as Hellenists used trisection of arc-ie "porphyry"-quadrant analysis only for making judgements regarding angularity and relative planetary strengths, but using whole sign format for delineation of houses)
Signs always predominant-as Varahamihira said, "Planets have their lives IN THE SIGNS..."


Yes I have heard some say also rather emphatically that the Sripati bhava calculations (and a few other things) were 'inserted' (with not necessarily ill intentions) at a later date and were not in the original script (which came after the very ORIGINAL discourse between the Sage and his disciple, hence an oral conversation!

Now how these claimants came upon this 'insertion' hypothesis was a bit puzzling to me. Maybe they were experts in time-travel or using hypnotic past life regression to acquire the information by viewing the 'original' since it presumably does not exist anymore in modern times! So, any hypothesis goes!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
I had a couple of questions in going through the basics of vedic astrology

(1) When trying to read what does 1st lord in 2nd house mean, do we look at the Rasi Chart or the Bhava chart?
(2) Similarly, if I have to look for say planets in houses eg., Mars in Taurus, would I look at the Rasi chart or the Bhava chart?

I can see in the Bhava chart that some of the planets have moved houses and signs....hence this confusion.

Astrology, unfortunately, is riddled with such confusing items. If you seek opinions, there would be many since that is the nature of the beast, metaphorically stated! The best way is to look at charts where the planetary shift or relocation occurs (avoid planets too close to a sandhi between rashis, such as a planet at 29.30 of leo for example, because then you would be fighting with two variables! Then use what you have learned as fundamentals in jyotish (remembering that if you apply yourself this collection will or should keep growing!). See if physical and other attributes (as per fundamentals) are fitting more with whole sign or bhavas or a mix of the two. The final answer will not pop into your consciousness suddenly but over time you will be seeing a pattern and that is the only way to reduce confusion if not eliminate it entirely. I say that, because, when it seems to be eliminated entirely, you will be running into a nativity where the pattern does not fit and the head-scratching will begin. But by then your learning would have progressed some more than the time before! :)

A 'processed food package' answer would be that a planet expresses (or as I maintain, indicates) more confidently and firmly if the sector remains the same by whole sign as well as bhava (you will find at times that there will be differences in positions between Sripati system and equal house divisions as well). If it shows up in different sectors (rashi vs bhava) then the energies represented (and attributes) would tend to be scattered. As you study and come to grips with timings (dasa and transits for starters), the correlation between sector positionings and events etc will further provide confirmation and verification. Going just by attributes (mars in first so an angry person or over energetic) may not be the ideal way to go, though does provide a good starting point. And always do this against the backdrop of which rashi the planet is in! At times it may feel almost as if you are working with a 3-D jig-saw puzzle where some pieces fit perfectly but others do not, hence the importance to view the matrix as an interacting whole!

Your second question is simpler! Mars in Taurus remains mars in Taurus whether it shifts to the sector (in bhava chart) where the cusp belongs to Aries or Gemini.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 
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curiousgal

Well-known member
Ok...so I have to be honest. I guess just after going through the basics (since the past 10 days) , I expected to now begin to be able to interpret. But I guess I was wrong. I'm so confused...there are so many dimensions to this, it only seems to be getting more and more complicated.
I've not read texts on Jaimini astrology, so cannot tell the difference. Nor do I have knowledge yet about what the whole house system means.
I guess I need to read more...focus more...work on more and more examples (horoscopes) to clearly understand the basics better. I'm infact having to read and re-read the same text over and over again to even understand a little bit. So, I have a long long way to go.

For some reason, I'm not able to read sequentially. For eg., I might be reading about aspects and then I suddenly switch to Karakas and then somewhere else from there. Don't know why I've started doing that. I think I should read from books rather than the internet.

But anyways, thank you both so much for taking your time to answer my query. I think I have to go back and review the basics yet again.
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
Ok...so I have to be honest. I guess just after going through the basics (since the past 10 days) , I expected to now begin to be able to interpret. But I guess I was wrong. I'm so confused...there are so many dimensions to this, it only seems to be getting more and more complicated.
I've not read texts on Jaimini astrology, so cannot tell the difference. Nor do I have knowledge yet about what the whole house system means.
I guess I need to read more...focus more...work on more and more examples (horoscopes) to clearly understand the basics better. I'm infact having to read and re-read the same text over and over again to even understand a little bit. So, I have a long long way to go.

For some reason, I'm not able to read sequentially. For eg., I might be reading about aspects and then I suddenly switch to Karakas and then somewhere else from there. Don't know why I've started doing that. I think I should read from books rather than the internet.

But anyways, thank you both so much for taking your time to answer my query. I think I have to go back and review the basics yet again.

I don't think most (probably all...?) did not getting all the facts under our bonnet before we began interpreting charts! :) It is a sequential process and as long as we do not get discouraged too quickly and do not get afraid of making bloopers (even very experienced ones do that, all the time!), the fascination simply keeps growing and newer ways get learnt. I have been at it for decades now (and so many others too) but still keep learning new things and at times get reminded about something I read long ago and thought I had forgotten or gotten a bit fuzzy about the details. This makes me go back and relearn or re-examine facts and factoids and I have never felt any shame or embarrassment in that :) Like they say, the OCEAN is very large and all we are doing is to try and empty it with a sieve. All I can say is that the tiny holes in the sieve do get tighter and tighter over time!

It is a shame that what I personally consider one of the most useful learning and research tools available to all astrologers did not get support from the astro-community and met with a sad demise. I am talking about Rodden and Mark's Astrodatabank software which though not perfect or fully comprehensive was extremely useful!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 

Virinchi

Well-known member
Yes, astrology is an ocean and you can't cross entire ocean and know its depth in your lifetime.
But atleast learn to an extent where you can swim to the nearest island, whenever you required.

reading few books and trying to analyze your own chart is like jumping into ocean without learning how to swim.
will you try medicines and treatment on your body by reading some medical journals when you're sick ?
 

curiousgal

Well-known member
I have now realized that the more and more I read the same topic or listen to the same lecture from astrologers on youtube etc, I learn something new. The terms start getting familiar and I understand one more thing than what I did previously.
But hats off to all of you here who are masters in this science. I kind of underestimated the complexity involved in this science. I honestly didnt expect it to be so difficult to understand. There are so many layers...so many things we need to put together before we make predictions!
 

curiousgal

Well-known member
Yes, astrology is an ocean and you can't cross entire ocean and know its depth in your lifetime.
But atleast learn to an extent where you can swim to the nearest island, whenever you required.

reading few books and trying to analyze your own chart is like jumping into ocean without learning how to swim.
will you try medicines and treatment on your body by reading some medical journals when you're sick ?

Lol!
No way am gonna experiment treatments on myself...change in diet in terms of treatment yes....medicines...no way!
I do get scared sometimes when I read what certain planets in certain conditions signify (am using my husband and my chart; kids charts - am not finding them useful because of the very few life experiences they have had so far) and start wondering if I should continue.

I dont know how long is this obsession with astrology going to last :smile:
 
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Astroenthusiast

Well-known member
Lol!

I do get scared sometimes when I read what certain planets in certain conditions signify (am using my husband and my chart; kids charts - am not finding them useful because of the very few life experiences they have had so far) and start wondering if I should continue.

I dont know how long is this obsession with astrology going to last :smile:


For however long it lasts, do your self a favour and don't read your or your family's chart. A half cooked meal can cause indigestion.
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
For however long it lasts, do your self a favour and don't read your or your family's chart. A half cooked meal can cause indigestion.

While I know that many astrologers and teachers insist that a person first read their own chart or of family, and many beginners end up doing that, my recommendation (personal preference) would be exactly as yours. Particularly since in many beginners (unless they are coming from a firm background in other types of astrology and thus more familiar and experienced) the expectation (understandably so!) is that in most charts planets reveal (express?) their messages directly! This misconception, unfortunately, arises from text books including scriptural writings which generally always devote many pages to descriptions of effects of planets in signs, planets in houses and different combinations of planets in a given sign or house. It can get rather frustrating initially when we begin running into charts where the written (expected) does not match the actual (observed)! Little wonder that many begin learning astrology but then drop out! And there is nothing wrong in that. Who knows maybe it was meant to be?

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 

curiousgal

Well-known member
I understand why everyone suggests that while learning astrology, it is better not to read one's own or loved one's charts because half knowledge is pretty dangerous. But I seem to understand the topics better when I look at our own charts. Even if I were to pick a famous person, I only know how that person has projected himself to us...I do not know what how he/she thinks. I understand that in astrology, we learn more as we keep working with various charts. In my own personal experience, when I read about the influence of planets in various houses/signs, I could see how it related to me and then I was able to piece it together. I dont think I would follow/understand if I study someone else's chart....atleast not when I'm still learning.
 

Virinchi

Well-known member
Its the 'motive' behind learning astrology, that is more important.
When someone asks me they want to learn astrology and how to start, i would first check if they have the 'horoscope' of an astrologer or not
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
N how do you check that? Like which house and what combinations of planets?

Hi Crystalsoulz,

List of birthdata of jyotishis (names masked) in QCK format for your personal studying!

.QCK, I believe, is a simple string format readable by several software.
SELECT all in a block
Paste the block in the simplest ascii text-editor, such as Windows Notepad
Use courier font
Make sure that the name fields (e.g., Astro,01) occupy the first 23 character spaces before the birthdata string (MON name MUST begin from character space#24). FORUM software removes the extra spaces which are critically necessary! Please do this meticulously and carefully for each line!
Each string (birthdata, name etc) should occupy a single line with no blank spaces between each line! Or at the beginning of the QCK file!


Save the ascii notepad file as astro.qck. Hopefully it gets picked by your astro software and Good luck!

Rohiniranjan



Astro,01 SEP 04196803:54:30 PM ?ST-05:30077E42'00 28N59'00 Meerut,India=INDIA,IN
Astro,02 OCT 19197100:10:00 AM ?ST-05:30073E02'00 26N17'00 Jodhpur(Raj),India=INDIA,IN
Astro,03 DEC 02196809:43:00 AM EST+05:00075W09'51 39N57'08 Philadelphia,PA
Astro,04 APR 18195104:54:00 PM EST+05:00083W33'19 41N39'50 Toledo,OH
Astro,05 OCT 16195197:36:00 PM EST+05:00080W08'00 26N07'00 Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Astro,06 SEP 27194709:47:00 AM PST+08:00121W16'00 37N53'00 French Camp,CA USA
Astro,07 SEP 13195100:30:00 AM ?ST-05:30077E12'00 28N38'00 New Delhi,India
Astro,08 SEP 01195304:20:00 AM CST+06:00087W38'00 41N52'00 Chicago,IL NCGR
Astro,09 FEB 25194707:35:00 PM CST+06:00087W39'00 41N52'00 Illinois,USA
Astro,10 OCT 25198207:34:55 PM ?ST-01:00018E41'00 50N13'00 City,Poland
Astro,11 OCT 01195208:29:00 AM EST+05:00071W09'20 41N42'05 Fall River,MA
Astro,12 MAY 18196004:42:00 AM PDT+07:00122W16'00 37N48'00 California,USA
Astro,13 SEP 27195710:12:00 AM CDT+05:00089W28'46 41N50'20 Dixon,IL
Astro,14 APR 13194712:51:00 AM CST+06:00093W36'00 41N36'00 Des Moines,
Astro,15 JUN 12196307:22:00 AM CDT+05:00087W41'00 42N02'00 Michigan?,USA
Astro,16 MAR 10192004:36:00 AM ?ST-05:30077E30'00 30N00'00 Saharanpur,
Astro,17 MAY 12193412:55:00 AM ?ST-05:30079E25'00 28N21'00 Bareilly,
Astro,18 OCT 31194311:29:00 PM ?DT-06:30072E55'00 26N43'00 Osian,India=INDIA,IN
Astro,19 JAN 13195202:47:00 AM ?ST-05:30081E18'00 24N32'00 Rewa,India
Astro,20 NOV 01190812:11:00 PM ?ST-05:30079E06'00 10N53'00 Thiruvaiyaru,India
Astro,21 MAY 17194600:35:00 AM EST+05:00081W42'00 41N30'00 Cleveland,OH
Astro,22 OCT 29196612:01:00 AM ?ST-05:30076E24'00 30N19'00 Patiala,India=INDIA,IN
Astro,23 OCT 20195703:28:43 AM ?ST-05:30075E49'00 26N55'00 Jaipur,India
Astro,24 NOV 04197003:13:00 PM ?ST-05:30080E59'00 26N55'00 ,India=INDIA,IN
Astro,25 AUG 08191207:46:09 PM ?ST-05:30077E34'00 12N59'00 Bangalore,India
Astro,26 JAN 15191004:54:00 AM ?ST-05:30080E59'00 16N27'00 Gudivada,
Astro,27 APR 04197005:50:00 PM ?ST-05:30081E08'00 16N10'00 Machilipatnam,India
Astro,28 SEP 07193808:56:00 AM ?ST-05:30083E27'00 18N07'00 Vijiyanagaram, AP =INDIA, IN
Astro,29 MAY 21194407:02:00 PM ?WT-06:30079E25'00 13N39'00 Tirupati,
Astro,30 JAN 22192011:06:00 AM ?ST-05:30080E35'00 16N15'00 South India,
Astro,31 MAY 25192511:30:00 PM ?ST-05:30077E08'00 13N20'00 Tunkur,Karnataka
Astro,32 OCT 05190911:20:00 PM ?ST-05:30081E09'00 16N43'00 Eluru,
Astro,33 NOV 26196211:10:00 AM EST+05:00085W10'00 42N19'00 Battle CreekMI
Astro,34 SEP 04194304:20:00 PM ?ST-10:00145E00'00 37S50'00 Melbourne,Australia
Astro,35 SEP 21194811:56:00 AM ?ST-02:00024E54'00 60N11'00 Helsinki,Finland
Astro,36 AUG 15195309:00:00 PM ?ST-05:30075E34'00 31N19'00 Jullundur(Punjab),India
 
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