Is he manipulative?

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
A Gemini man I started seeing is very likable, and we have a lot in common, but I can't help ut have this paranoid feeling of being love-bombed.

He decided to commit to me very fast and is always giving me compliments. That would have been nice, but he keeps wanting me to also engage with him in the same way.

I absolutely adore Neptune/Uranus energy and I'm well aware it fits my natal rulers of the 7th, 4th, and 12th house.

I guess my question is whether he can be trusted or anything to look out for based on his chart or our chart together?

He has a nice venus-Moon and Pisces Moon, but what do I know?

I feel like he is trying to have me fit a fantasy of the perfect partner.
 

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ElenaJ

Well-known member
His moon in pisces represents the women he will attract and seek in his life. The 12th house moon is in a trine to 8th house pluto, both in intuitive water signs, so he can be very psychic and highly intuitive, and will have a life long passion in digging into the psyche of others.
The symbolic meaning is a search for women who are also very deeply rooted emotionally, in touch with the inner realm. Pluto is also transformation and power, and the trine gives an easy edge to this energy. The moon however is in a square to sun, so that in selecting a female figure he doesn't always make the choice that best fits his inner ego, and finds himself in a conflict in this area. While he is impulsively concentrating on understanding the roots of her emotions, she as an individual is not comfortable with this energy and doesn't quite "click" with the pattern he presumes he has found.
Your scorpio moon has the emotional intensity he is attracted to, but your moon/mercury opposition is triggered by his pluto on your moon. In this way you satisfy his need to analyse your emotions and transform them, not necessarily with a negative intent, but it can be very powerful and imposing on you, and hard to escape.
We look at your sun to understand the type of male you attract into your life, and we find a stable, nurturing concrete energy in taurus, but it opposes pluto. So you yourself need a male figure who is in control, but there is a conflict to how this control is expressed. You are yourself quite a powerful personality, and there is a basic urge to control those around you and your environment.
So we have him delving into your emotions, trying to transform your psychological impulses, and you trying to control who and what he is.
Pluto is very difficult to escape from, it is compelling and impelling, and your relationship with him will have many layers, and touch some very sensitive spots. Be prepared for it.
His mars on your Neptune/uranus conjunction can create sparks as well as illusions. At the beginning the physical attraction will be strong, but then the energy can be diverted and become anger and irritation.
There is a mutual sun/jupiter contact that helps to ease things up and make each of you forgiving of the other's trespasses, and mars/venus contacts will keep you physically attracted, plus the exact moon/venus trine promises you will feel very comfortable together.
At the beginning of a relationship it is the positive, easy aspects that draw us to the other person, then with time the more negative aspects, that we were overlooking, start to come to the forefront and can overshadow the positive.
You do each satisfy the other's identikit of a partner, but it will be a bit of a roller coaster and a therapy session.
Finally, the juxtaposition of the ascendent/descendent axis is very very appealing, you can intuitively mirror each other, and that is a very good feeling to have with another person.
His Jupiter on your descendent reflects your descendent energy.
That same Jupiter in pisces on his ascendent is probably what is making him intensely emotional and positive towards you, but that is actually his way of expressing himself.
You can certainly learn a lot from this contact.
The mercury near your moon's node and Neptune near his moon's node ties the ascendent/descendent rulers to a karmic fulfilment.
Before you go any further, you should decide if you want in or out with him, because once you are in, you will never be able to get out again!
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
You are a wonder ElenaJ! Thank you so much for covering something so complex and making it sound easy. I love your writing style and can really feel it :love:
(For any Pisces out there- you guys are the strongest sign period.) I won't requote but I'm replying to all you said.

...Doesn't always make the choice that best fits his inner ego, and finds himself in a conflict in this area. While he is impulsively concentrating on understanding the roots of her emotions, she as an individual is not comfortable with this energy and doesn't quite "click" with the pattern he presumes he has found."

Could it be that the reason I'm distrustful is that I feel there is a dissonance between what he is feeling and his other needs? (Sun square Moon).

I am usually very good at reading people and knowing motives they have even hidden from themselves. this makes me very trustful of people and the world.
I know Scorpio Moon gets a rep of being suspicious but in reality, I find most of us are actually too trusting because we assume we know the other person's motives (their needs and wishes) and therefore feel in control enough to open up.
I shamefully admit I do not understand this man. I can't see into him at all and this makes me really uneasy.
You are also right about me not "clicking" with the pattern she keeps finding and his 'translations.'

You've made the wonderful observation that people in relationships first notice the easy aspects more. I can tell you I am already irritated and angry with him :innocent:
I can't stand someone psychoanalyzing and focusing on my feelings openly.
I usually don't know what I'm feeling until much later anyhow!
My emotions and mind are my secret sacred fantasy space. They are the process worth living for! He just entered the palace without asking.

I am suspicious of him because

1. He decided to commit to me after ONE meeting.
2. He decided I'm his perfect dream partner before getting to know me over time.
3. He keeps talking about "our" future and things he knows I would like to do.
4. I feel great when I'm with him and very at peace but when alone I just want space and disappear on him. Perhaps it is my Uranus/Neptune conjunct his Mars.
5. He keeps giving me too many compliments and they are about things I don't care about like my appearance or parts of my personality I thought were invisible.
For example, I have often written on this forum about my singleton Aries Mars that is pretty much sleeping. He assumed I'm very sporty after meeting me once. He saw that Mars.
6. The greatest issue I am struggling with is that I feel he chose me with his MIND, not his HEART. It is like I tick his list of boxes and now I must fit into it.

I guess my question is if he is prone to over idealize and create this unreal image of a woman in his mind and after become disappointed in her?
I don't want to be just that rational image that fits his ideal. (ideals are based on reason, not the heart).

I don't believe we really know people until after some time...So him being so sure about me right away is unusual.

Astrologically :rightful: I noticed his has no easy aspects to Jupiter or Saturn. Yes, his beautiful Venus-Moon and Moon-Pluto would make him a wonderful partner to women.
But I'm wondering if a lot of it is a pipe dream Jupiter-Uranus, Venus opposing Neptune, Sun square Jupiter. OVER PROMISING.

You can certainly learn a lot from this contact.
The mercury near your moon's node and Neptune near his moon's node ties the ascendent/descendent rulers to a karmic fulfilment.
Before you go any further, you should decide if you want in or out with him, because once you are in, you will never be able to get out again!

I'm an old and tired Taurus Elena, I had a decade of "learning experiences" and karmic relationships. I just want to settle down or be single.

I feel he decided I am in and I can't run away now. He just trapped me unless I run now. I don't have a rational reason to run just this awful suspicion. He is very sweet and kind and good to me.

I loved how you wrote this and appreciate your kindness and time.
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
"I can't stand someone psychoanalysing and focusing on my feelings openly. "
"He keeps giving me too many compliments and they are about things I don't care about like my appearance or parts of my personality I thought were invisible. "

This is scorpio speaking. I know this without a doubt, I'm a scorpio, and when someone right off pays me a compliment, I'm immediately on my guard and suspicious! We like to hide and feel we are hidden. In his enthusiasm he unwittingly touched a live wire in you that makes you take three steps back. Normal reaction for scorpio.

"he chose me with his MIND, not his HEART."
No, it was his pisces moon in 12th that picks up on a psychic level.

"I feel he decided I am in and I can't run away now. He just trapped me unless I run now."
Exactly.
Up to you to decide.
The irritation from mars/uranus will always be there, but so will the rest.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
"I can't stand someone psychoanalysing and focusing on my feelings openly. "
"He keeps giving me too many compliments and they are about things I don't care about like my appearance or parts of my personality I thought were invisible. "

This is scorpio speaking. I know this without a doubt, I'm a scorpio, and when someone right off pays me a compliment, I'm immediately on my guard and suspicious! We like to hide and feel we are hidden. In his enthusiasm he unwittingly touched a live wire in you that makes you take three steps back. Normal reaction for scorpio.

"he chose me with his MIND, not his HEART."
No, it was his pisces moon in 12th that picks up on a psychic level.

"I feel he decided I am in and I can't run away now. He just trapped me unless I run now."
Exactly.
Up to you to decide.
The irritation from mars/uranus will always be there, but so will the rest.

:innocent: Yes, it is somewhat the Scorpio. Still, I think gut-feelings and intuition are warning me here.

That is my issue :) I guess you don't see any red flags in his chart?
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
His mercury is square Jupiter/ascendent.
From astroTarot:
Typical features that this square brings: you have a clever mind with a broad philosophical outlook on life. You love to express your ideas, sharing them with other people pretty readily. Jumping to conclusions can be a problem. You often overlook details. Also, your thinking and studying habits are not always disciplined. So, this can result in sloppiness. With this Mercury – Jupiter aspects, you might vacillate between logical thinking and an optimistic conclusion-drawing bent of mind. So, it can be challenging for you to truly get to the heart of a subject. Your intentions are generally good. But you might promise more than you can deliver. Be careful not to cultivate a reputation for being unreliable, simply because you desire to make others happy with what you say. You can be extraordinarily funny and interesting. You possess an acute but disorderly mind. So, you must learn to be more disciplined, to concentrate more on details. Your optimism can sometimes distance you from reality. You learn mostly through interacting with others and through personal experience. Also, you may travel widely, talk a lot, or be very productive, in whatever you manifest from your mind. Your full potential can be realized by consciously working on your concentration level.
Positive traits: You have the potential to grasp abstract ideas. And you can acquire a good understanding of any subject you wish to study. You certainly have the capabilities and are willing to keep learning and improve your skills.
Negative traits: Concentration and self-discipline may hold you back from reaching your full intellectual potential. Sloppiness may apply to your thinking, in your writing style or how you organize other aspects of your life.

Basically, he could exaggerate things, become over enthusiastic.

His sun opposes Saturn:
The opposition reflects an inner conflict externalized into the outer environment of relationships. The issue of self-esteem and worth is highlighted, and you may experience a degree of hidden insecurity and fears of full involvement in life.
From astromatrix, here is a link to the page:
https://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Sun-Opposition-Saturn

The midpoint of Neptune/pluto is at Saturn, and opposing sun.
Here is what John Sandbach has to say about this configuration:
To tap into or be affected by extreme subtleties. The process of refining and transforming energy. Tremendous often overpowering imaginings. Obsessive imaginings and visions. Hallucinations. Profoundly deep idealism. Supernatural occurrences. To be transformed and evolved by one's visions.
And the link to the page, which is very detailed and informative:
http://john-sandbach.blogspot.com/2010/12/planets-activating-neptunepluto.html

But to have a proper evaluation you also have to look at sun opposite pluto, who is you.
From astromatrix:
This suggests that most of your problems and challenges will arise in the area of interpersonal relationships, often created or stimulated by your own unconscious expression of this energy, which requires a deeper understanding and inner adjustment to be achieved before you can consistently benefit from its power.
and a link to the page:
https://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Sun-Opposition-Pluto

Your Venus of love and affection is exactly trine Uranus/neptune and square Saturn.
You might like to check that out as well.

Keep in mind, you can exercise as much control and transformation energy over yourself as you fell you need, but you have to be careful about applying it to other persons or to the situations around you.
Sometimes you just have to fly by faith and take it the way it is.
Pluto energy works both ways, towards you and from you.
At the end of the day, you will have to decide how much you are willing to live with this in a relationship, how far are you willing to go.
This is an issue for you to resolve that goes beyond just this person and this relationship.
 

katydid

Well-known member
You two have some amazing synastry.
Your Jupiter in Virgo makes a KITE out of his natal Grand Trine. His natal Moon is locked away in his 12th. Your Jupiter gives him an escape and allows him to unlock that emotional trove of feelings, desires, hopes for the future.

A Kite allows someone to rise above their difficult circumstances. You give him that sense of freedom/hope.
Also, his pluto connects to your moon. That might be a bit much for you, but it is deep and passionate.

His mars is on your Neptune/Uranus conjunction—again, it might make you nervous or anxious, but maybe it is good for you to have this energy/focus upon your goals/dreams/future?

On top of the above, you also have:
A double whammy Sun/Jupiter connection
Mutual Mars/Venus aspects
An exact Moon/Venus trine
Reversed Ascendent/Descendent axis
His Jupiter on your Descendent
Mercury /Moon's node
Neptune /Moon's node


Those are very beneficial, positive aspects in synastry . These types of aspects don’t come along too often.

I’d hate to see you throw in the towel so early. I am wondering if it is your Saturn T-square in the 5th of Love that is being so resistant?:whistling:

I hear that you don’t trust his words as you feel he could not be having these feelings so prematurely. But simple truth is, you are a taurus and he is a Gemini. So he can get there much faster. It doesn’t mean his feelings are not valid. He is just less guarded and less cautious than a Taurus with a Scorpio moon and Virgo rising. Lol :cool:
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
You two have some amazing synastry.
Your Jupiter in Virgo makes a KITE out of his natal Grand Trine. His natal Moon is locked away in his 12th. Your Jupiter gives him an escape and allows him to unlock that emotional trove of feelings, desires, hopes for the future.

A Kite allows someone to rise above their difficult circumstances. You give him that sense of freedom/hope.
Also, his pluto connects to your moon. That might be a bit much for you, but it is deep and passionate.

His mars is on your Neptune/Uranus conjunction—again, it might make you nervous or anxious, but maybe it is good for you to have this energy/focus upon your goals/dreams/future?

On top of the above, you also have:
A double whammy Sun/Jupiter connection
Mutual Mars/Venus aspects
An exact Moon/Venus trine
Reversed Ascendent/Descendent axis
His Jupiter on your Descendent
Mercury /Moon's node
Neptune /Moon's node


Those are very beneficial, positive aspects in synastry . These types of aspects don’t come along too often.

I’d hate to see you throw in the towel so early. I am wondering if it is your Saturn T-square in the 5th of Love that is being so resistant?:whistling:

I hear that you don’t trust his words as you feel he could not be having these feelings so prematurely. But simple truth is, you are a taurus and he is a Gemini. So he can get there much faster. It doesn’t mean his feelings are not valid. He is just less guarded and less cautious than a Taurus with a Scorpio moon and Virgo rising. Lol :cool:

Thanks, Katy, yes the Synastry seems so good so I was surprised by my own reluctance or even attraction. There are many emotional/mental things that fit. He is awesome.

BUT

I just keep feeling like escaping him. It could be my Neptune conjunct his Mars, making me evasive?

Surprisingly with such good synastry, he is not my "type" and I don't feel at ease with him on the physical level. Strange.
Venus trine Mars usually works great.

I think he will tire soon of me not being responsive and so elusive. A part of me is hoping he will...I just can't help it.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
So...I gave this time and I have been open and vulnerable with him. I absolutely agree there are signs of competability BUT I believe in my own intuition and if something feels off...Not like anxiety but like a quite nagging feeling. It probably is indicative of something.

Too many times we mistrust ourselves and give people the benefit of the doubt.

His Sun has zero easy aspects. No support at all.

A good person he may be but his is absolutely trying to control me. He tried several times to find out wether I have high self esteem and where my point of weakness is. I didn't budge...But that is a red flag.

We live in a world where being careful of strange men as a woman is smart. Sadly.
 
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