Do asteroid aspects matter

[waybread]

Moondance, nobody knows how or why astrology works.

One important point, however, is that it has little to do with visible magnitude, beyond a crude level. In Hellenistic astrology, the ascendant was more important than the sun as identifying the "me" point in the horoscope; and the sun more typically referred to one's monarch or father. The rising degree was often paired with a conjunct fixed star or planet that supposedly guided the person throughout his life, for good or ill. The part of fortune ("Fortuna") was extremely important, to the extent that astrologers erected special charts setting the P of F to the first house, in order to predict one's success or ignominy in life.

No causality model for astrology has ever passed a logic sniff-test.

I tend to take a holistic view towards humans and the cosmos. We are not separate entities, but together we form a holistic unit. Obviously, what we believe influences how we are even capable of measuring and interpreting the heavens.

Astrologer Geoffrey Cornelius argued that astrology was a form of divination. Many astrologers of the past believed this, as well. I think this viewpoint bears further exploration. However, I am more inclined to see astrology as a discipline that helps us to unlock latent "psi" abilities. The ancient Graeco-Roman myths resonate today because they are metaphors and allegories for human experience-- in which we all partake.

If the study of asteroids helps you to make more sense of your life, or to help others, I say, "More power to your wheel."

[graay ghost]

I do wonder, if anyone who does think that asteroid aspects matter, would have any thoughts of Pallas in Sagittarius as the point of a yod between Mars in Taurus and Sun in Cancer, with orbs of about 1 degree.

[waybread]

I would use only actual planets (Pluto OK) in aspect patterns like the yod, not asteroids, angles, or sensitive points. But again, I pretty much stick to the conjunction with asteroids.

[graay ghost]

I guess I keep trying to look up sources and they say things like "prominent [insert asteroid here]", and considering asteroids do not have sign associations (Chiron maybe), aside from like conjunction to angles, aspects would be the main thing that makes an asteroid "prominent."

[Moondancing]

Originally Posted by waybread

I would use only actual planets (Pluto OK) in aspect patterns like the yod, not asteroids, angles, or sensitive points. But again, I pretty much stick to the conjunction with asteroids.

Hold on to your hat! In Wescott's book 'Mechanics of the Future - Asteroids' she says "The only thing that separates the use of asteroids from planets is the meaning! All the other techniques with which you are familiar remain the same."

She notes that "major configurations involving asteroids may not rank with those of purely planetary composition" but she delineates them, and the focal point of the yod has been a planet from what I've seen so far.

Graay ghost: It isn't often you see her use signs with asteroids. The emphasis on signs and houses comes from first studying the natal chart, before adding asteroids. In regards to Pallas she does say to evaluate both sign and house position to understand its effect. Such as a Sagittarius Pallas might have used philosophy to gain father's attention and a 12th house Pallas may have felt exploited by his efforts to gain approval. Add the meanings of Mars and Sun from your understanding of your natal chart to Pallas and you see a fuller picture of how you use Pallas.


Moondance

[graay ghost]

Originally Posted by Moondancing

Hold on to your hat! In Wescott's book 'Mechanics of the Future - Asteroids' she says "The only thing that separates the use of asteroids from planets is the meaning! All the other techniques with which you are familiar remain the same."

She notes that "major configurations involving asteroids may not rank with those of purely planetary composition" but she delineates them, and the focal point of the yod has been a planet from what I've seen so far.

Graay ghost: It isn't often you see her use signs with asteroids. The emphasis on signs and houses comes from first studying the natal chart, before adding asteroids. In regards to Pallas she does say to evaluate both sign and house position to understand its effect. Such as a Sagittarius Pallas might have used philosophy to gain father's attention and a 12th house Pallas may have felt exploited by his efforts to gain approval. Add the meanings of Mars and Sun from your understanding of your natal chart to Pallas and you see a fuller picture of how you use Pallas.


Moondance

My Pallas is in the 8th, not the 12th. But I guess I can see what you mean.

I was wondering if you all thought that Pallas could have to do with gender identity whatevers because I'm not sure the rest of the chart could explain that in me.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by waybread

.....You are probably aware that

many modern astrologers do not use asteroids,

or

very few.

Quite

[Moondancing]

Originally Posted by graay ghost

My Pallas is in the 8th, not the 12th. But I guess I can see what you mean.

I was wondering if you all thought that Pallas could have to do with gender identity whatevers because I'm not sure the rest of the chart could explain that in me.

Look to Lilith. There should be several indicators to produce such a strong feeling, trick is in finding them. Asteroids give clues to what the psyche is like. I'm studying a chart now of someone with these same issues. I'll get back to you if I can add any new information.

Moondance

[graay ghost]

Originally Posted by Moondancing

Look to Lilith. There should be several indicators to produce such a strong feeling, trick is in finding them. Asteroids give clues to what the psyche is like. I'm studying a chart now of someone with these same issues. I'll get back to you if I can add any new information.

Moondance

I don't understand. What does Lilith have to do with anything?

[Moondancing]

Originally Posted by graay ghost

I don't understand. What does Lilith have to do with anything?

Lilith represents sexual complexity.

[graay ghost]

Originally Posted by Moondancing

Lilith represents sexual complexity.

I mean, I guess.

I've been trying to read up on Lilith (astrologically) and people have such strong feelings about it and keep trying to relate it back to the myth, something about evil and women's liberation and everything but I mean... I don't know. I've always thought of Lilith as more like Frankenstein's Monster, created with expectations she was neither willing nor able to fulfill. And we all know who the real monster was in Frankenstein -- not the Monster.

[Moondancing]

Originally Posted by graay ghost

I mean, I guess.

I've been trying to read up on Lilith (astrologically) and people have such strong feelings about it and keep trying to relate it back to the myth, something about evil and women's liberation and everything but I mean... I don't know. I've always thought of Lilith as more like Frankenstein's Monster, created with expectations she was neither willing nor able to fulfill. And we all know who the real monster was in Frankenstein -- not the Monster.

Lilith represents our deepest and darkest fears, rejection and abandonment. Best to take her in small steps. :-) I'd just focus on your key word and work with that. What is your asc. (idenity), it's ruler, sun and moon and how do they interact with Lilith? You can build from there by looking at interactions between other asteroids and planets.

This is a cool web site that lets you enter a date and it will show the asteroids and planet position at that time. You simply pick a planet in your chart that you want to know what asteroids might be connected to it, and there you have a list to peruse.

http://serennu.com/astrology/ephemer...inlo=83w20&h=P

Enjoy the discovery! One thing I like about Wescott is her enthusiasm for astrology. Reminds me of JA but for asteroids.

[CapAquaPis]

In my natal 3rd house in Virgo, Lilith is in the 24th degree right next to Saturn at 25th. They're between Mars at 9th conjunct Jupiter at 6th. To have Lilith in there in a triplicity of 3 planets, the earth's "second moon" represents fear and negativity. Saturn is thought to represent a person's father, and I realize Lilith-Saturn conjunctions foretells a difficult troubled relationship with an abusive, quarreling father in a family. This was true in my parents' divorce when I was 7 and my mother felt my father wasn't the best husband material. Lots of personal issues I don't wanna get into, but the astrological meaning of Lilith is what I believe in to be real.

[graay ghost]

Originally Posted by Moondancing

Lilith represents our deepest and darkest fears, rejection and abandonment. Best to take her in small steps. :-) I'd just focus on your key word and work with that. What is your asc. (idenity), it's ruler, sun and moon and how do they interact with Lilith? You can build from there by looking at interactions between other asteroids and planets.

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about the asteroid Lilith and not the lunar point.

Strangely the asteroid Lilith is at 19 17 Leo in the 4th, exactly opposite BML at 19 18 Aquarius in the 10th. More strangely, these two points make a better opposition to the Mercury/Saturn one in the grand cross I have, meaning they square Mars at 20 37 Taurus and Pluto at 20 14 Scorpio, meaning that both the Ascendant and Descendant are involved because they are at 21 02 Taurus and 21 02 Scorpio, respectively.

I have no idea what to make of that so, there's that. Sun, moon, and Venus aren't really involved. To be honest I am unconvinced of the elevated importance of the chart ruler at this point.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by graay ghost

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about the asteroid Lilith and not the lunar point.

There are three Liliths (some claim even four or five) Dark Moon, Black Moon and the asteroid.

http://www.mountainastrologer.com/st...er/lilith.html

http://darkstarastrology.com/triple-...ith-astrology/

[ariescancer]

Originally Posted by Moondancing

Lilith represents sexual complexity.

My Pallas also opposes Lilith. i have no idea how that affects me.

[ariescancer]

Pallas is also quintile my ascendant, as well as Venus, bi-quintile my ascendant.

[theV]

Asteroid aspects do matter,also Asteroids.The asteroid carries the story of the myth or the theme named after.I believe in asteroid,and I am about to start a thread about them,explaining some of the asteroid that are prominent in my chart.

[theV]

Originally Posted by waybread

I would use only actual planets (Pluto OK) in aspect patterns like the yod, not asteroids, angles, or sensitive points. But again, I pretty much stick to the conjunction with asteroids.

Yeah Asteroid shows off in the person's life,when they make a conjunct to a sensitive point.I find other aspects very weak to notice.

[ALRESCHA]

They do matter and they tell the details you normally wouldn't think of. I have soooo many examples, but that's boring to share

I am so happy they got one with my name, even tho I don't quite like it. That one could not explain me and my karma, past life and this one any better, it's conjunct my Mars (I count up to 2 degrees)

[theV]

Originally Posted by ALRESCHA

They do matter and they tell the details you normally wouldn't think of. I have soooo many examples, but that's boring to share

I am so happy they got one with my name, even tho I don't quite like it. That one could not explain me and my karma, past life and this one any better, it's conjunct my Mars (I count up to 2 degrees)

Did you know that your pluto contra parallel mars?

[ALRESCHA]

Originally Posted by theV

Did you know that your pluto contra parallel mars?

thanks for the trouble, yes. My Mars is naive and it lacks patience, and Pluto not cooperating and not doing what it's supposed to makes everything more complicated. But that's what finally made me transform the soldier and the asteroid testifies that and further explains how.

[Kernowerno]

Hi
Glad I bumped into this post. I don't know much about the asteroids but fate has recently led me to address some of them. Briefly, I had a very momentous experience with another person recently, and I began to include the asteroids when drawing up charts at Astrodienst, more by accident than by design, to help understand the nature of our interaction. I was quite blown away at how accurate the transiting asteroids and our natal planets and asteroids were aligning, and when I researched the nature and mythology behind them, I was even more amazed.
I'm now more convinced than ever that the asteroids can play a very significant role, but I'm trying to get confirmation and feedback from more experienced astrologers (see my post 'Transiting Asteroids.., Wow!'). In my case the main asteroids and points relate to Juno, Lilith and 'Lilit', but also Psyche, Sappho and Vesta. If there is anyone that would like to communicate with me on this matter, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for the interesting posts everyone, very helpful stuff

[Kernowerno]

Originally Posted by waybread

I would use only actual planets (Pluto OK) in aspect patterns like the yod, not asteroids, angles, or sensitive points. But again, I pretty much stick to the conjunction with asteroids.

Would you not consider an exact aspect (e.g. for a square, less than 15', for a trine less than 20', for an opposition less than 30' etc) as relevant either? To me, logically, any body or point could be considered if it's exact enough. I'm just considering Jung's synchronicity as the guideline for all astrological elements when I ask that. What do you think?

[theV]

Originally Posted by Kernowerno

Hi
Glad I bumped into this post. I don't know much about the asteroids but fate has recently led me to address some of them. Briefly, I had a very momentous experience with another person recently, and I began to include the asteroids when drawing up charts at Astrodienst, more by accident than by design, to help understand the nature of our interaction. I was quite blown away at how accurate the transiting asteroids and our natal planets and asteroids were aligning, and when I researched the nature and mythology behind them, I was even more amazed.
I'm now more convinced than ever that the asteroids can play a very significant role, but I'm trying to get confirmation and feedback from more experienced astrologers (see my post 'Transiting Asteroids.., Wow!'). In my case the main asteroids and points relate to Juno, Lilith and 'Lilit', but also Psyche, Sappho and Vesta. If there is anyone that would like to communicate with me on this matter, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for the interesting posts everyone, very helpful stuff

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