Will Trump become the first US Dictator?

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david starling

Well-known member
Again, excluding the miscounted Year 2000 Presidential election, which, as it turns out, Al Gore actually won both by both Electoral and Popular Votes, here's the results from the Electoral College system since 1888, when Benjamin Harrison won the Electoral College and lost the Popular-vote:

In the 32 Presidential Elections since 1888, only ONE President won the Electoral College Vote, but LOST the Popular Vote!

So, there goes the theory that the Electoral College is needed to prevent the more populated States from deciding every Presidential Election based on Popular Vote alone.

Bush Jr. has the distinction of becoming President even though losing both the Electoral College Vote AND the Popular Vote.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
In 2016, there was a concerted, and by all accounts, effective effort by foreign agents, posing as Americans on social media, to demonize and denounce one of the Presidential candidates. It's well-known and documented, and is entirely separate from the issue of whether or not the opposing candidate solicited these attacks. It was, however against the law according to the Constitution for print media.

My point is, these foreign interests deliberately "gamed" the Electoral College system, by concentrating on the "swing-States" that could determine the Electoral vote, so that wasn't a fair test of whether the Electoral and Popular votes would have been in agreement--maybe, maybe not.

The law now extends to internet media, and steps have been taken to prevent illegal foreign interference from happening again. So, it will be interesting to see if there's a repeat of the wide disparity between the Electoral College and Popular votes in the next Presidential Election.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
Here is a very well written and documented article about the Electoral College. Something for you to chew on for the moment, David. It explains the creation, and goes into depth about the Bush/Gore debacle, and the current reason why Electoral choices tend to align with the popular vote.

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=honors

It looks long, but it's easy reading. Good for a lazy Sunday!
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Thanks! I have read a lot of articles pro and con, but I just realized on my own how seldom they are out of alignment.

Does that suggest that the more populated and less populated States aren't really so opposed to each other as everyone seems to assume?

1 time in 32 elections, and only 3 times before that is a very good record of agreement between the Popular and the Electoral vote-counts.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
I thought you were in the states, where it should be minimum 2am!

Recently, the electoral members are under pressure to vote following the popular vote, which is why they two align. Not because they are independently coming to the same conclusions.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
I thought you were in the states, where it should be minimum 2am!

Recently, the electoral members are under pressure to vote following the popular vote, which is why they two align. Not because they are independently coming to the same conclusions.
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How recently? It sure didn't make them align in 2016! When did this "pressure" start, and who's doing the pressuring ?

Almost all the States are using the "winner-takes-all" system for the Electoral College, meaning that a bare majority of the popular vote in each State is enough to give all the Electoral votes to one candidate.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
I thought you were in the states, where it should be minimum 2am!

Recently, the electoral members are under pressure to vote following the popular vote, which is why they two align. Not because they are independently coming to the same conclusions.
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It's currently 11:18 p.m. where I am.
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
I thought you were in the states, where it should be minimum 2am!

Recently, the electoral members are under pressure to vote following the popular vote, which is why they two align. Not because they are independently coming to the same conclusions.
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That is Eastern Time (where NJ/NY are)

California is on the other side of the country, West Coast, and 3 hours behind, so 2am on the East Coast would be 11 pm there.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Trump sent U.S. Military agents into Oregon without the consent of the Governor, which is illegal according to the Constitution. They arrived in unmarked vehicles and began arresting peaceful protesters and holding them for "questioning". The Governor has filed a formal complaint.

Even Trump supporters should be alarmed about Trump's disregard for citizen's rights under the Constitution. Sets a very bad precedent for any President in the future.
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
david starling said:
Trump sent U.S. Military agents into Oregon without the consent of the Governor, which is illegal according to the Constitution. They arrived in unmarked vehicles and began arresting peaceful protesters and holding them for "questioning". The Governor has filed a formal complaint.

Even Trump supporters should be alarmed about Trump's disregard for citizen's rights under the Constitution. Sets a very bad precedent for any President in the future.
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What alarms me is that even when something is so clearly against the constitution, nothing happens to the citizen breaking the law.:unsure: Is the President of the US really above the law?:surprised:
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
CapAquaPis said:
Trump said he will not honor an all mail-in ballot election, esp. the results are he's not re-elected, what do you all think? :annoyed:
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Mail in ballots, as differentiated from absentee ballots, are ripe for manipulation. There isn't even a valid reason for having mail in ballots.
Trump did not say that he will not honour them "especially if he isn't re-elected", that is your supposition.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
Mail in ballots, as differentiated from absentee ballots, are ripe for manipulation. There isn't even a valid reason for having mail in ballots.
Trump did not say that he will not honour them "especially if he isn't re-elected", that is your supposition.
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Covid-19 is one. And in many places, there aren't enough polling places. Imagine 6ft distancing and lines stretching around the block. We can't assume the contagion will just "blow over" by November 6th. How many have gotten sick or died since Trump said there was nothing to worry about? The Spanish Flu was at its deadliest for a full year from when it started, and continued to claim lives for years after that.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
You do keep late hours!

No, sorry, we have it here, have had it worse than many others, but voting can still be done.

Anyone who can't get to a polling place can request an absentee ballot.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
You do keep late hours!

No, sorry, we have it here, have had it worse than many others, but voting can still be done.

Anyone who can't get to a polling place can request an absentee ballot.
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In Florida, for example, ALL registered voters are ALREADY permitted to vote by mail, no reason given.

Trump's reason for not wanting it for all the other States is because there will be more registered voters who are Democrats voting. If it were about more Republicans voting, he would be all for it.

A lot of the States have been allowing "no excuse" mail-ins for years, with no real problem.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
"ALL registered voters "

So, not mailing to everyone on an outdated list, and delivering without knowing whether there is a live person or not, and the person doesn't even know they should receive it.
If everyone receives it, registered voters, and you don't receive yours, you can request it and they can check if there are duplicates under the same name.
So there is a system.

"Trump's reason for not wanting it for all the other States is because there will be more registered voters who are Democrats voting. If it were about more Republicans voting, he would be all for it."
Your supposition.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
ElenaJ said:
"ALL registered voters "

So, not mailing to everyone on an outdated list, and delivering without knowing whether there is a live person or not, and the person doesn't even know they should receive it.
If everyone receives it, registered voters, and you don't receive yours, you can request it and they can check if there are duplicates under the same name.
So there is a system.

"Trump's reason for not wanting it for all the other States is because there will be more registered voters who are Democrats voting. If it were about more Republicans voting, he would be all for it."
Your supposition.
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You're supposing widespread voter fraud. Five States, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, and Utah are already almost entirely no-excuse vote-by-mail.
No evidence of fraud in those States. If Republicans weren't afraid of higher numbers of registered Democrats voting, they wouldn't be making this an issue.
 
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