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  #126  
Unread 08-02-2020, 11:48 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Another strawman.

Not talking about infection rate. I'm talking about death rate.

But keep missquoting
Um, um-- Dirius-- you do get that there's a connection???

And that the figures are in a state of flux?

And that you seem pleased if states with Democratic leadership have more dead people?

Of course Trump didn't cause CV-19, but his woeful lack of leadership in containing the disease while his executive branch had the chance is also causing his approval ratings to decline?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

Trump remains at heart the reality TV star who takes ratings very seriously. Which is why his campaign messaging is now veering into QAnon territory.

You know about them, don't you?

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  #127  
Unread 08-02-2020, 11:53 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Most of the Left Media agree with you that Cuomo's response was a big failure.

Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe.
His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office.


On March 25, New York governor Andrew Cuomo made one of deadliest mistakes of the coronavirus crisis, signing an executive order forcing nursing homes in his state to accept patients who tested positive for coronavirus. Around 4,800 New Yorkers died from COVID-19 in those nursing homes from March to May — approximately 25 percent of all fatalities in the state.

There is no measurement at our disposal and no level of gaslighting that will change the fact that Cuomo-led New York was an utter failure.:
sick:








https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...mos-defenders/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/n...se-delays.html

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Data shows the death rate was much higher in NYC because Cuomo (democrat) was useless in handling the pandemic. As it is now, all the evidence shows the blue states have been performing much worse than red states. Lets also review some of the majestic blunders from NY state:

- Inefficient bureaucratic delays when purchasing medical/protective supplies.
- Not closing schools or business after the pandemic had begun its spread (took them one month to begin their lockdown).
- Sending infected covid19 patients into nursing homes, killing over 6000 people.

"Dr. Frieden said that if the state and city had adopted widespread social-distancing measures a week or two earlier, including closing schools, stores and restaurants, then the estimated death toll from the outbreak might have been reduced by 50 to 80 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/n...se-delays.html

Last edited by blackbery; 08-02-2020 at 11:57 PM.
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  #128  
Unread 08-02-2020, 11:58 PM
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Most of the Left Media agree with you that Cuomo's response was a big failure.

Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe.
His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office.


On March 25, New York governor Andrew Cuomo made one of deadliest mistakes of the coronavirus crisis, signing an executive order forcing nursing homes in his state to accept patients who tested positive for coronavirus. Around 4,800 New Yorkers died from COVID-19 in those nursing homes from March to May — approximately 25 percent of all fatalities in the state.

There is no measurement at our disposal and no level of gaslighting that will change the fact that Cuomo-led New York was an utter failure.:
sick:








https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...mos-defenders/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/n...se-delays.html
Governor Newsom is apparently looking good regarding the pandemic.
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  #129  
Unread 08-03-2020, 02:29 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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I agree in the main, David. Of course, there are healthy and rural parts of NY and NJ, as well as parts of CA and FL that are not healthy-- or with a lot of retirees who, by virtue of their age, are high-risk.

In contrast, New Yorkers' approval rating of New York governor Andrew Cuomo (D) is climbing.
Da-mn right... thank God that the likes of Cuomo and Dr. Fauci are there to maintain some semblance of sanity and good leadership during these stressful times, and thereby help maintain some balance to the otherwise highly incompetent, "do-nothing" except pass-the-blame WH twit and his useless team.
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  #130  
Unread 08-03-2020, 02:37 AM
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Da-mn right... thank God that the likes of Cuomo and Dr. Fauci are there to maintain some semblance of sanity and good leadership during these stressful times, and thereby help maintain some balance to the otherwise highly incompetent, "do-nothing" except pass-the-blame WH twit and his useless team.
Harry Truman's motto: "The buck stops here."

Donald Trump's motto: "Pass-the-blame."
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  #131  
Unread 08-03-2020, 03:22 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

That is wonderful to hear David. I don't follow the pandemic much at all anymore but if the numbers are dropping in California, I'm really pleased to hear it. Hope the numbers keep dropping all over the country and around the world.


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Governor Newsom is apparently looking good regarding the pandemic.
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  #132  
Unread 08-03-2020, 03:25 AM
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That is wonderful to hear David. I don't follow the pandemic much at all anymore but if the numbers are dropping in California, I'm really pleased to hear it. Hope the numbers keep dropping all over the country and around the world.
Trump is now saying it's going to get worse before it gets better. Hoping he's wrong about it.

Last edited by david starling; 08-03-2020 at 04:05 AM.
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  #133  
Unread 08-03-2020, 03:33 AM
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I credit the very health-conscious attitude prevalent in California, along with relatively mild climate, for the less severe impact of the virus.
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  #134  
Unread 08-03-2020, 03:38 AM
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Also, California, despite its large population, is a large State with a lot of rural areas, and even L.A. has its somewhat isolated canyon communities and its suburbs.
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  #135  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:05 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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waybread brought it up in page 2 when she mentioned covid19 as a factor in the election in her anti-Trump rant.

And you didn't shut her down then - so its part of the discussion now.
Since when would David have the ability to "shut me down"?

Big there, Dirius.

For sure, CV-19 and how elected leaders handled it will be major factors in the upcoming general election.

For anyone interested in the Electoral College, keep your eyes on what happens in the state houses and federal House of Representatives.
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  #136  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:16 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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The thread completely off-track now with all the fighting about Covid-19. wtf, how did that happen?

The virus came from Wuhan. Ccommunist China did not react quickly or tell the rest of the world that a very contagious, respiratory virus had erupted. They allowed international travel & the spreading of the disease began. By Jan, 2020, the world was finally aware of what was coming with the China virus but nobody predicted how contagious it is & it spread like wildfire.

Italy, which has a very larger older population had thousands of elderly deaths for they weren't prepared or even knew what was happening until it was too late. World Health Organization did not warn the world and chose to support China and their lies.
Europe has been hit very hard, U.K. has the highest death rate there. Much higher that the U.S. per million. France, Italy, Belgium higher too. Many of these nations dead were elderly and sick and probably would have died but nobody talking about the natural death rate throughout the world. No country was prepared for this plague but each country have adapted with the resources and the health system that they have. U.S. has done the most testing and so they have a high number of recorded infections. Other countries have higher rates of infection but no testing. Everyone might get it at some point, herd immunity will kick in and we will carry on like we do after a bad flu season.

Dr. Fauci is not a god and doesn't have all the answers but he's on the Left and gets the support of the Media and the Democrats. They have classified him as the 'good guy' and Trump as the 'bad guy'.
Fauci is a part of the Task Force but they have held him up to be in charge of the pandemic but he's not. He's a paid medical consultant who is very often clueless like the rest of us about the course that the pandemic is taking. He & nobody else recommended wearing masks. Not until recently.


In the March 2020 60 Minutes clip, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”


He was wrong
of course and in April, 2020 the CDC gave the following press release.

April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:


For many living in urban cities and fixed incomes with no jobs, buying a mask is impossible. How effective are scarfs and bandanas?

Bottom line, no medical personnel should be exalted as having all the answers and no data can be fully understood in this early stage. However, the statisticians have consensus that the death rate is extremely low but higher in aged homes, high density, urban areas and with certain minorities. & people with underlying illnesses.
Nobody is "exalting" Dr. Fauci, for Pete's sake. Some of us happen to think that a senior medical research scientist has got a better handle on CV-19 than a real estate developer and former reality TV star who doesn't read very much.

Dr. Fauci has consistently been more correct on CV-19 than Donald Trump has.

Once more, Bleckbery, let's remember that when CV-19 first hit our shores, nobody knew very much about it. It was a new virius. It took the medical scientists a while to work it out. In the meantime there was a dire shortage of masks and PPE, so the thought was to give them to front-line medical personnel as a high priority.

It is an open question whether "herd immunity" will actually happen, for the simple reason that ex-patients' antibodies don't seem to stay in their systems for very long.

CV-19 will be a major issue in the upcoming general election. So watch how major swing states with big Electoral College votes have been handling it.

Where are you getting your news from, Blackbery? I'd like to follow up on it. Your posts seem to follow Fox News, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
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  #137  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:38 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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I don't understand why you are so gleeful that florida death rate has increased in the past few days. Do you want them to catch up to NJ and NY which have the highest death rates in the country? Here's a graph of the death rates and Florida listed at above 15.
What is the celebrating of deaths due to Covid-19 about?

Do you really want more people to die so you can try to beat Trump in Nov?
He's going to win regardless and I'm troubled by the Left Democrats salivating at the thought of more deaths. I don't even recognize the DNC anymore, they are the death cult now.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s-us-by-state/
I am hardly gleeful, blackbery. The rising death toll is clearly a major tragedy for millions of Americans who have gotten really sick and lost loved ones. Rather, you and Dirius seem to be the ones who don't get the severity of the pandemic crisis.

You are succumbing to the same short-term thinking that Dirius has. You need to look at the data trajectory for states with the fasted growing rates of new cases. Because CV-19 isn't over yet. Right now the states with the highest rate of increase during the past week were Arizona (23%,) Mississippi (22%,) and Florida and Alabama at 19%

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-is-increasing

I might point out that Mississippi is the poorest state in the US, with Alabama ranked #5. So you can project that these states will have higher death rates as the disease progresses.

Please do not fabricate such malicious beliefs about me or the Democratic party (to which I do not belong, incidentally.)

For shame.

There are multiple reasons why Donald Trump is manifestly unfit for office. More deaths will merely extend and deepen the national tragedy that Trump has repeatedly shown himself unable to handle.
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  #138  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:43 AM
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Since when would David have the ability to "shut me down"?

Big there, Dirius.

For sure, CV-19 and how elected leaders handled it will be major factors in the upcoming general election.

For anyone interested in the Electoral College, keep your eyes on what happens in the state houses and federal House of Representatives.
Waybread, it surprised me that there's a rule that, if someone posts something legitimately peripheral to the thread topic (apparently thst was you in this case), and the OP (me in this case, which is what Dirius was referring to) doesn't report it, then someone else (Dirius, in this case) is free to make it the central topic, in place of the topic as named in the thread title.

It's funny that you said "for anyone interested in the Electoral College", because that was originally intended to be the major topic of discussion!
I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised by the "permission to hijack a thread unless the OP doesn't immediately take steps to prevent it" rule.

The Supreme Court came out very recently with a landmark decision that a State Elector has to vote for the winner of the State's Popular-vote, even if that State's law was permitting them to jump ship in previous elections.

Last edited by david starling; 08-03-2020 at 04:51 AM.
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  #139  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:44 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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I'm happy you finally admit that BLM,Antifa and the thugs and domestic terrorists are part of the Democrat Party.
By definition, they are not part of the Democratic party.

Antifacists, thugs, and domestic terrorists, whatever their explicity ideology, are radical extremists far to the left of the Democratic party platform.

Which you can read about here, if you dare to look at the truth:

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

These are revised every four years at their national convention.
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  #140  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:52 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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This link came from another thread and if you watch it, you can see for yourself how Dr.Fauci supports the Left Democrats. He won't admit that protesters should be banned from gathering in large crowds but has said that nobody can go to places of faith, work or school because they will spread the disease.

He is clearly biased against Trump and should be removed.


https://youtu.be/66Jhq-zGV88
For Pete's sake, Blackbery. Dr. Fauci doesn't make the rules. These are made at the state and local levels, normally by governors.

As a MD, he has promised to save lives. I trust you have heard of the Hippocratic Oath.

Fauci doesn't answer to Democrats. It's the other way around, where educated liberals actually believe in the science behind Dr. Fauci's recommendations.

Whatever else might be his strengths and weaknesses, Donald Trump has no expertise in epidemiology. And apparently does not care to acquire any.
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Last edited by waybread; 08-03-2020 at 05:14 AM.
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  #141  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:00 AM
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For Pete's sake, Blackbery. Dr. Fauci doesn't make the rules. These are made at the state and local levels, normally by governors.

As a MD, he has promised to save lives. I trust you have heard to the Hippocratic Oath.

Fauci doesn't answer to Democrats. It's the other way around, where educated liberals actually believe in the science behind Dr. Fauci's recommendations.

Whatever else might be his strengths and weaknesses, Donald Trump has no expertise in epidemiology. And apparently does not care to acquire any.
Trump has been free to fire Fauci from the beginning, and still can.
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  #142  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:07 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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So now you've changed your position to the "its not over yet". Guess you just can't go against actual data huh?

Data shows the death rate was much higher in NYC because Cuomo (democrat) was useless in handling the pandemic. As it is now, all the evidence shows the blue states have been performing much worse than red states. Lets also review some of the majestic blunders from NY state:

- Inefficient bureaucratic delays when purchasing medical/protective supplies.
- Not closing schools or business after the pandemic had begun its spread (took them one month to begin their lockdown).
- Sending infected covid19 patients into nursing homes, killing over 6000 people.

"Dr. Frieden said that if the state and city had adopted widespread social-distancing measures a week or two earlier, including closing schools, stores and restaurants, then the estimated death toll from the outbreak might have been reduced by 50 to 80 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/n...se-delays.html
Dirius, it would be helpful if you actually read what I wrote, vs. fabricating what you wish I'd said so that it would be simpler for you to launch an argument. (aka your "straw woman" debate fallacy.)

Surely you understand that all that "the data" show are deaths from cv 19 (and cases of CV-19.) These data make zero reference to political party.

David and I have patiently and repeatedly tried to explain the outlines of epidemiology to you.

No doubt New York elected officials and public health officers wish they had done things better and differently during the early stages of the virus, when they were metaphorically flying by the seat of their pants.

But you cannot make the case that somehow the state would have had a brilliant outcome had right-wingers been in charge.

"I think it's funny how" Governor Cuomo's approval rating among New Yorkers rose in connection with his handling of the pandemic. if Democratic bunglers were out there wantonly killing people, as you imply.

You still haven't answered my question as to why right-wing Republicans haven't managed to convince poor city dwellers to vote Republican.

Ironically, when Democratic leaders did what Dr. Frieden suggested, and closed restaurants and schools, the right-wingers cried bloody murder. And still are.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 08-03-2020 at 05:15 AM.
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  #143  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:26 AM
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Dirius, it would be helpful if you actually read what I wrote, vs. fabricating what you wish I'd said so that it would be simpler for you to launch an argument. (aka your "straw woman" debate fallacy.)

Surely you understand that all that "the data" show are deaths from cv 19 (and cases of CV-19.) These data make zero reference to political party.

David and I have patiently and repeatedly tried to explain the outlines of epidemiology to you.

No doubt New York elected officials and public health officers wish they had done things better and differently during the early stages of the virus, when they were metaphorically flying by the seat of their pants.

But you cannot make the case that somehow the state would have had a brilliant outcome had right-wingers been in charge.

"I think it's funny how" Governor Cuomo's approval rating among New Yorkers rose in connection with his handling of the pandemic. if Democratic bunglers were out there wantonly killing people, as you imply.

You still haven't answered my question as to why right-wing Republicans haven't managed to convince poor city dwellers to vote Republican.

Ironically, when Democratic leaders did what Dr. Frieden suggested, and closed restaurants and schools, the right-wingers cried bloody murder. And still are.
Well, this is the second time "the door has been opened" for Dirius to totally derail the thread by espousing his Neoliberal economic philosophy concerning why the poor city-dwellers have been duped into voting for Democrats.

I'm hereby exercising my right as OP to object to a discussion about that particular topic on this thread. (Now I'll see if it works.)
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  #144  
Unread 08-03-2020, 12:56 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

All,

As David mentioned, please get back on topic. Relate your post in SOME way to the Electoral College. This thread has already veered off that topic, so, going forward, please bring the focus BACK to the Electoral College.

Following up,

Tim
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  #145  
Unread 08-03-2020, 03:43 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

No, I don't think the Electoral College should be eliminated and it likely never will.....................



.for all the reasons I mentioned before it got turned into the China virus thread.



Of which David fully participated in and encouraged until he suddenly changed his tune & complained........and not allowed any
response to Way Bread's lengthy and rude postings.



It is what it is.







Last edited by blackbery; 08-03-2020 at 03:59 PM.
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  #146  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:41 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

The electoral college was meant to keep presidential elections in check, a way to prevent any possible cheating to occur. Trump managed to win an election without a popular vote and in this case, he turned out to lack experience and qualifications to hold the presidency. In 3 months, our country braces itself for what I call it's most epic historic event since the Civil War in the early 1860s.
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  #147  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:19 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

It's happened before, I posted about it earlier......


Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump).


I expect in Nov Trump will win both the electoral college and the popular vote for he's gained a lot more support since 2016 with creating the strongest economy in decades (before the China virus brought the world economies to a grinding halt).... benefiting not just the wealthy but everyone from every minority group. He has the full support of the police unions and the people of faith. They voted for a pro-life President who respects their faiths. Many legal immigrants like his tough stance on illegal immigration.
His votes will round up to around 66 million this time around, bringing him both the electoral college & the popular vote & that will silence the Democrats who want to change the electoral system.

The main reason for keeping the electoral college is to maintain the federal republic and to ensure the minority voice is not drowned out by the majority. It's worked extremely well as the Founding Fathers knew it would and no need to change it ever.


The Electoral College, enshrined in the Constitution, is a system that forces candidates to tour all of the nation’s 3,007 counties, 64 parishes, and 41 independent cities. Otherwise, large blue or red states with high density populations would determine the Presidential election and nobody else would be heard.

Cheating is another good reason.

No need to change a good electoral system because someone a voter personally disliked got elected. We live in a democracy and even the small, rural areas need to be heard.







Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
The electoral college was meant to keep presidential elections in check, a way to prevent any possible cheating to occur. Trump managed to win an election without a popular vote and in this case, he turned out to lack experience and qualifications to hold the presidency. In 3 months, our country braces itself for what I call it's most epic historic event since the Civil War in the early 1860s.

Last edited by blackbery; 08-03-2020 at 05:28 PM.
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  #148  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:20 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
No, I don't think the Electoral College should be eliminated and it likely never will.....................



.for all the reasons I mentioned before it got turned into the China virus thread.



Of which David fully participated in and encouraged until he suddenly changed his tune & complained........and not allowed any
response to Way Bread's lengthy and rude postings.



It is what it is.






That ship has sailed, regarding all the Covid-19 posts, including death-statistics. Waybread inadvertently opened the door in one post, and that, according to forum rules, gave Dirius the opportunity to make it all about Covid-19 statistics and who handled the pandemic worst, Trump or Governor Cuomo. Now I know to head that sort of thing off.
So, feel free to talk about the pandemic and rail against Dr. Fauci all you like. Dirius was able to make that happen. But now, he won't be able to turn the thread into an Econ 1A course in Neoliberal economic theory.
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  #149  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:44 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
It's happened before, I posted about it earlier......


Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump).


I expect in Nov Trump will win both the electoral college and the popular vote for he's gained a lot more support since 2016 with creating the strongest economy in decades, benefiting not just the wealthy but everyone from every minority group. He has the full support of the police unions and the people of faith. His votes will round up to around 65 million this time around, bringing him botteh the electoral college and the popular vote.

The main reason for keeping the electoral college is to maintain the federal republic and to ensure the minority voice is not drowned out by the majority. It's worked extremely well as the Founding Fathers knew it would and no need to change it ever.


The Electoral College, enshrined in the Constitution, is a system that forces candidates to tour all of the nation’s 3,007 counties, 64 parishes, and 41 independent cities. Otherwise, large blue or red states with high density populations would determine the Presidential election and nobody else would be heard.

Cheating is another good reason.

No need to change a good electoral system because someone a voter personally disliked got elected. We live in a democracy and even the small, rural areas need to be heard.
The Electoral College system caused Andrew Jackson to lose the Election in 1824. He denounced it as "unfair".

When it looked as though Mitt Romney would win the Popular-vote and yet lose to Obama due to the Electoral vote in 2012, Donald Trump denounced the Electoral College system as "incompatible with a democracy".

When the Electoral College system enabled Jeb Bush to ensure his brother George would win in Florida by intentionally delaying the final vote-count which was therefore completed too late to change the outcome, but which proved that Al Gore had, in fact, won BOTH the National Popular-vote AND the Electoral College Vote, it was the Democrats who denounced the Electoral College system.

So, it's the loser who blames losing on the Electoral system itself, and denounces it. And, it's the winner who makes up phony excuses for why it's absolutely fair and necessary.
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  #150  
Unread 08-03-2020, 05:45 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Posts: 1,163
Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

You participated FULLY and prodded the China virus postings as long as you and Way Bread got to ignore Dr. Fauci's mistakes & got to ignore what Cuomo did in NY. When Dirius & I challenged the angry, misleading postings by you & Way Bread, you decided it needed to be closed down.....even though I had mentioned that it had been diverted long before then.

It is what it is. Can we please move on?





Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
That ship has sailed, regarding all the Covid-19 posts, including death-statistics. Waybread inadvertently opened the door in one post, and that, according to forum rules, gave Dirius the opportunity to make it all about Covid-19 statistics and who handled the pandemic worst, Trump or Governor Cuomo. Now I know to head that sort of thing off.
So, feel free to talk about the pandemic and rail against Dr. Fauci all you like. Dirius was able to make that happen. But now, he won't be able to turn the thread into an Econ 1A course in Neoliberal economic theory.
d
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