Sun square Saturn

Sagmoon

Well-known member
I want to explore this aspect; more information from personal experience etc., would be really helpful. So far i only read a few books which included Carter's The Astrological Aspects, and numerous amount of internet sites where the conclusion is almost always optimistic, although Carter's definition is altogether quite unfortunate for the native. In my own life-searching i begun to realise that this configuration is one of the hardest one to sustain and that not a lot can be done to alleviate it, and therefore is of an outmost importance to me. Of course, no interpretation can be sufficient without looking at the chart as a whole, but here in particular, i'm concerned with what the aspect represents as a singular feature in more abstract form. This in turn, hopefully can shed light into how the aspect can be managed throughout one's life, which leads me to another question of whether it is karmic and one has nothing left but to grind their teeth and endure what saturn brings. The question of destiny, karma etc and whether we have the power or volition to change it with the knowledge of astrology can also be incorporated into the discussion.

Looking at some famous people with this aspect i noticed one common factor: their sun was also aspected by mars, not necessarily harmoniously, or was located close to the sun, the sign next to it. It seems only then they are able to 'fight off' the saturn influence. I would imagine it's a competition within themselves, speaking from personal experience. I wouldn't know though to what extent they were/are aware of the influence of saturn in themselves and in their lives however.

many thanks,
Sagmoon
 
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MaeMae

Banned
Sag Moon -

My son has Sun-Saturn square (Aries-Cap). He also has Mars sextile Sun (Gemini-Aries). Truly, he only competes with himself, to better himself as a musician and though he is aware of the levels of musicianship of others, he never sees himself at competition with them, but uses his own internal thermometer to determine his achievements, of which, he has many.

Also - Sun square Saturn, as I've seen it in others, gives a Saturnian edge to the person. My son, again, with this square, but also with 3 planet stellium of Cap in 1st, is very Saturnian, despite his Sun-Venus conj Aries and Moon in Cancer and Sag. rising.

Sun square Saturn is at odds with complacency, I think. They are inclined to want to constantly better themselves, making adjustments in their own character when they see something that isn't working for them. Though they do get stuck in the mud. Definitely, the Saturnian influence of the strong aspects (conj-square-opp) to Sun lends itself to a serious nature that strives for achievement and has a pretty rigid personal code.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
Sag Moon -

My son has Sun-Saturn square (Aries-Cap). He also has Mars sextile Sun (Gemini-Aries). Truly, he only competes with himself, to better himself as a musician and though he is aware of the levels of musicianship of others, he never sees himself at competition with them, but uses his own internal thermometer to determine his achievements, of which, he has many.

Also - Sun square Saturn, as I've seen it in others, gives a Saturnian edge to the person. My son, again, with this square, but also with 3 planet stellium of Cap in 1st, is very Saturnian, despite his Sun-Venus conj Aries and Moon in Cancer and Sag. rising.

Sun square Saturn is at odds with complacency, I think. They are inclined to want to constantly better themselves, making adjustments in their own character when they see something that isn't working for them. Though they do get stuck in the mud. Definitely, the Saturnian influence of the strong aspects (conj-square-opp) to Sun lends itself to a serious nature that strives for achievement and has a pretty rigid personal code.

yes, you've summarised it very well, i can identify with everything you said. i'm always aware of my own internal thermometer as you called it, and strangely enough never understood till later in life the idea of competition with others.

when speaking to other people they can often detect the fact that i'm very hard on myself and that i have certain weaknesses. I'm wondering here if this is worsened when projected and at some point, if it wouldn't be for the sake of mars synthesised along, the energy is lacking, saturn would begin to overtake and destroy one's internal balance, if i'm guessing one cannot/didn't achieve the set of goals and dreams. this in turn creates a problem to others as they might react defensively and therefore feel uneasy around a person like that. hence, the saturn's native is projecting the vulnerable side to the world and cosequently seeing it reflected in others as well as meeting bad luck along the way.
 
We are all visual people and need to see charts please?

These people fear their own feelings of inadequacy! They want to be considered accomplished and important people, and when they face obstacles, they don't always want to believe that they are their own worst enemy. They long to be considered important in the eyes of the world, yet they harbor fear of success at the same time.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunsaturnaspects.html
quite often this aspect can be linked to father issues and feelings of being held back, restrained etc.
Remember planets are modified by sign, where they express are houses and how they express are *aspects*
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
We are all visual people and need to see charts please?

Yeah sure, here is my chart. Though i didn't really want the discussion to be about myself, but about the aspect. I would like to know more about how other people approach this aspect from personal experience rather than just book knowledge. Would be good to see their charts too:).
 

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Yeah sure, here is my chart. Though i didn't really want the discussion to be about myself, but about the aspect. I would like to know more about how other people approach this aspect from personal experience rather than just book knowledge. Would be good to see their charts too:).

You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

your chart is hugely lobsided in placidus. Your saturn only has two major aspects, so not surprised you wanted to focus on this one. I Equal house saturn would be 5th house along with mars. also notice every planet below the horizon suggests far to much subjectivity and focus on self.

Saturn square MC can knock your confidence in career matters early in life.

Saturn in Square to Midheaven
You can lead people because you have an aura of authority and responsibility that others pick up on and your advice is often sought out by those who need what they perceive to be a reliable source of input. Saturn aspecting your career cusp demands a kind of perfection and those who have it are often successful after deciding to persevere no matter what, through trying times and obstacles.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssaturn.htm
Suitable career options may include: politician, government worker, manager, accountant, corporate executive, construction and building worker, chiropractor, doctor, or dentist. Wherever precision combines with form, or reliable leadership qualities can be brought into play, you have a career possibility.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssaturn.htm
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer.

Good point. Originally I was a fan of the equal house system, but I think now that it works both ways. Although I haven't really explored this as such, except for my own chart. Here is another chart, I also excluded extra aspects to angels etc so it looks less cluttered.

Many thanks,
Sagmoon
 

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Saturn rules your 7th and is placed in 5th, suggesting you want marriage partners to be involved in all 5th house matters ie: children, romance, recreational matters etc.

Sun/leo is ruled by 2nd and placed in 2nd, So personal beliefs values, property, purchases are ultimately important as is how you earn your money and spend it. Did father instill lots of stern measures during childhood?
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I think Sun square Saturn may feel insecure, may start off life with a lot of feelings of inferiority. And not feel as free to do as they want in life, whether for personal or economic reasons. So they have something to prove.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
Did father instill lots of stern measures during childhood?

Unfortunately I'm one of those Saturn square Sun people where father was not present from about the age of seven, so I wouldn't be able to tell. He was very warm and kind to me when he was around. But i feared him anyway. Him not being present later produced lots of pain for me, and it's a wound that took a long time to heal.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
Sun/leo is ruled by 2nd and placed in 2nd, So personal beliefs values, property, purchases are ultimately important as is how you earn your money and spend it. Did father instill lots of stern measures during childhood?

I always wanted to be able to earn enough to be able to spend money for things I need. I think when thinking about a career I never really thought how beneficial it will be later in monetary matters, only later in life i begun to think about it. I tend to spend my money carefully, though I like spending them.
 

joyrjw

Well-known member
I have :sun: :square: :saturn: in my chart :)scorpio:-:leo:) and :sun: :conjunct: :mars: :)scorpio:-:scorpio:)

I'm told I'm too hard on myself and I've always felt inferior to other people.

I guess it gives me a kind of serious side.

Please excuse the very large chart I've placed here. I don't know how to upload the thumbnail version.

picture.php
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
I have :sun: :square: :saturn: in my chart :)scorpio:-:leo:) and :sun: :conjunct: :mars: :)scorpio:-:scorpio:)

I'm told I'm too hard on myself and I've always felt inferior to other people.

I'm wondering if the complex of inferiority stems not so much from your sun square saturn but from your ascendant rather? Since it is so close to Cancer, it could just as well be considered cancer rising, and it's a trait that cancerians usually have. I have that too, and I think, although Sun square Saturn can bring a lot humility and bring itself down, in a way, it can also exalt itself above all else. In my experience, it's the inner struggle to first reject or destroy myself, then bring myself up, it's peculiar to satrun aspects as the esoteric doctrine teaches us that saturn symbolises the gate of hell etc. Two sides are in accord with each other, when i'm guessing they are not out of balance.
 
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MaeMae

Banned
I might add, in jory's chart, that chiron is close to 11th cusp, which can have an impact on how one sees themselves in comparison to others, as a whole.
 

joyrjw

Well-known member
I'm wondering if the complex of inferiority stems not so much from your sun square saturn but from your ascendant rather? Since it is so close to Cancer, it could just as well be considered cancer rising, and it's a trait that cancerians usually have. I have that too, and I think, although Sun square Saturn can bring a lot humility and bring itself down, in a way, it can also exalt itself above all else. In my experience, it's the inner struggle to first reject or destroy myself, then bring myself up, it's peculiar to satrun aspects as the esoteric doctrine teaches us that saturn symbolises the gate of hell etc. Two sides are in accord with each other, when i'm guessing they are not out of balance.

What you say is entirely possible about my ascendant, It is definitely close to Cancer rising.
What's really strange is that I don't get along with people who have a Cancer sun. I kind of do with Cancer moon people and I have no clue about Cancer rising people. Usually the sun sign people don't like me very well for some reason.

You have Cancer rising?:cool:

From what you're saying maybe Sun Square Saturn explains my feeling of arrogance vs. humbleness? I hadn't completely thought about it until now.

So thank you for making me think:)
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
What you say is entirely possible about my ascendant, It is definitely close to Cancer rising.
What's really strange is that I don't get along with people who have a Cancer sun. I kind of do with Cancer moon people and I have no clue about Cancer rising people. Usually the sun sign people don't like me very well for some reason.

You have Cancer rising?:cool:

From what you're saying maybe Sun Square Saturn explains my feeling of arrogance vs. humbleness? I hadn't completely thought about it until now.

So thank you for making me think:)

Thank you for making me think too. I like posting on this forum, I always find it easier to understand what it is that I'm looking for after I expressed something and got some feedback.

Cancer rising, we're one of the best ;)

Arrogance vs. humbleness is a good way to say it, I feel that too, even though I have the opposite aspect to yours:). Still, you will probably agree, that it's the humbleness that mostly present. Or if not, then a certain leash, like something is holding us back and makes restrictions. On one hand it's a good thing, on another it can be hard to deal with. And yet, on another level, if it wouldn't be for astrology I would never come to truly understand the nature of it:).

Edit: I just wanted to add that, although it's a feeling of arrogance, it's a kind of controlled and restricted one. I don't know if it's for the reason of being modified, in my case, by Saturn placed in Scorpio, but it's also a private matter, somehow concealed. Only once in a while do I let my Sun in Leo shine. My sisters, both being Leos are constantly recognized as Leos, where as for me, I always get labelled as either cancer or they just can't say anything at all.

Oh and as for cancer people, I usually feel attuned to them straight away, although they do tend to shy away most of the time at first, and maybe for this reason may come across as unfriendly..?
 
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szanne

Active member
The "mighty" sun/saturn square. This is the tightest aspect I have, Squaring my 10th house Sun. Arrogance vs humbleness describes this aspect very well. I have battled self doubt my whole life and have experienced my share of tough lessons. Too many times in the past I thought I knew...and pushed through for all the wrong reasons (my will and arrogance) and saturn corrected bringing along the humbleness.

What has really helped in my life was replacing all the fear and self doubt with self knowledge and acceptance. Turning to my inner spirituality and getting out of my own way.

We all have to work with what we are given. This square has been tough but it also has brought me to a place in life I would not give up for anything.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
The "mighty" sun/saturn square. This is the tightest aspect I have, Squaring my 10th house Sun. Arrogance vs humbleness describes this aspect very well. I have battled self doubt my whole life and have experienced my share of tough lessons. Too many times in the past I thought I knew...and pushed through for all the wrong reasons (my will and arrogance) and saturn corrected bringing along the humbleness.

What has really helped in my life was replacing all the fear and self doubt with self knowledge and acceptance. Turning to my inner spirituality and getting out of my own way.

We all have to work with what we are given. This square has been tough but it also has brought me to a place in life I would not give up for anything.


Thank you for joining:).

Trying to push through, and being overly ambitious is the hardest and the main lesson I had to learn. Saturn also symbolises responsibility, and only through these lessons where I had to learn acceptance, I begun to acknowledge a deeper meaning of taking responsibility for myself as well as for others. Is this where Saturn's real karma lies, in learning these lessons?

It would be great to see your chart too:)
 

LWalton

Member
Thanks for opening this topic, SagMoon! I'm also a Sun square Saturn person, with a quintile to Mars. Many of the traits I'm hearing here are spot on: a sense of inadequacy coupled with serious drive to prove oneself; periods of complete denial of life and responsibility; a tendency to despondancy and "hardness."

However, I'm also well-known in my community as a good person, a free spirit, a "hero" to some because I've made my own life in the arts. All of it stems from my stubborn, perverse inner drive to do my own da*n thing, in spite of.

Now, my traits may be exacerbated by other factors. Sun opposition Pluto, for instance, and a seriously afflicted Moon in Capricorn (Moon opposed Saturn, square Pluto.) My childhood was marked by extreme criticism, unrealistic expectations, emotional and physical abuse, almost-covert blackmail and hatred by my Scorpio mother, power struggles, complete parental narcissism, etc.. We were a "good family" by outside appearances, and still are, but the insiders' reality was much much different.

Anyway, with afflicted lights, it's really only natural to lean into work, career, a sense of duty and vocation. Personal relationships are difficult at best :)
 

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Sagmoon

Well-known member
Hello yet another cancer rising:). You seem to have a very good intuitive undersanding of how the aspect influences you. There is a t-square between Saturn, Pluto and Sun. It's a tricky configuration but a concentration of energy at the same time. Saturn being the main object, no question coupled by your Sun's position at the top of the chart and moon in Capricorn, a pronounced Saturnian persona:). Hence you naturally inclined to shift your attention towards career and work, and Saturn usually indicates achieve a great deal, despite the uncomfortable aspects that one needs to grow through.
 
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