Thank you for this forum

IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
Hello,

My first love is psychology. I think I have always been interested in how we understand ourselves [or not] and how that affects our relationships with others. I studied the Jungian framework of symbolic psychology for a number of years until I discovered around 1990 that it dovetailed with a branch of astrology called psychological astrology. Then I read every astrology book I could get my hands on and attended classes with an astrologer here where I live from about 1992 to 1998. For two years, I answered cold questions from my teacher's web site that had a feature where you could talk with a live astrologer.

Astrology was my passion until transiting Pluto opposed my natal Mercury, ruler of my chart, and I lost interest in it. I was really annoyed and very upset at the loss, but with Pluto, we can only submit and hope to understand its purpose later on. I did and do continue to enjoy talking about astrology with my friends and to look at the charts of people I know, but I lost interest in generally interpreting charts.

For some reason [I need to look at my transits and progressions more carefully to see what is going on, although we all know how hard it is to understand our own charts] I've become interested in chart interpretation again, and I am very happy about that. So I have come to this forum to read about other people's ideas and to brush up on my interpretive skills. I appreciate the opportunity to do so here.

Thank you.
Ilene
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
IleneK said:
Hello, My first love is psychology. I think I have always been interested in how we understand ourselves [or not] and how that affects our relationships with others. I studied the Jungian framework of symbolic psychology for a number of years until I discovered around 1990 that it dovetailed with a branch of astrology called psychological astrology. Then I read every astrology book I could get my hands on and attended classes with an astrologer here where I live from about 1992 to 1998. For two years, I answered cold questions from my teacher's web site that had a feature where you could talk with a live astrologer.[/B]

[COLOR=Navy][B]Astrology was my passion until transiting Pluto opposed my natal Mercury, ruler of my chart, and I lost interest in it. I was really annoyed and very upset at the loss, but with Pluto, we can only submit and hope to understand its purpose later on. I did and do continue to enjoy talking about astrology with my friends and to look at the charts of people I know, but I lost interest in generally interpreting charts. [/B][/COLOR]

[B]For some reason [I need to look at my transits and progressions more carefully to see what is going on, although we all know how hard it is to understand our own charts] I've become interested in chart interpretation again, and I am very happy about that. So I have come to this forum to read about other people's ideas and to brush up on my interpretive skills. I appreciate the opportunity to do so here. Thank you. Ilene[/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Navy][B]IleneK, IMO the outer planets are generational and not personal... IMO [U][I]you simply did not notice aspects made by other planets at that time, but just focused on Pluto[/I][/U].

The outer planets are newcomers on an astrological scene that was already many thousands of years old [/B][B]when they made their appearance[/B][/COLOR]. [COLOR=Navy][B]Uranus was discovered 13 March 1781, Neptune was discovered 23 September 1846 and Pluto was only discovered 18 February 1930 [/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR=Navy][B]Modern Astrologers are only able to use Uranus, Neptune & Pluto since they were discovered with the use of powerful telescopes. So in relation to the outer planets, Modern Astrology depends upon the use of telescopes

[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Navy][B]Traditional Astrologers did not have these telescopes so could not and did not delineate Uranus, Neptune or Pluto. It is not possible to cram Uranus, Neptune or Pluto into Ancient Astrology. IMO delineation involving the outer planets is speculative currently. Here's a link to a previous discussion [/B]http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39021

[B]Modern astrology is firmly based on ancient astrology and IMO its a great idea to learn the original techniques as practiced two thousand plus years ago so here are some links to threads you may find both useful and informative [/B]http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48308 [B]as well as [/B]http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920 :smile:
[/COLOR]
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IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
Hello, JupiterAsc.

Thank you for your comments and references.

You are correct, Pluto is an outer planet. However, as it contacted a personal planet in my chart, the aspect is personal rather than generational. Everyone in my generation did not experience a Pluto transit to their natal Mercury, since Mercury is in many, many positions in my generation's charts.

I do agree that the discovery of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are modern and for that reason I tend not to use them as the ruler of the signs. But it is difficult to ignore the effect of an outer planet contact to one's natal chart, even if it cannot be easily understood by our conscious minds. And there is a substantial modern astrology describing the symbolism of the outer planets that can be very helpful in interpreting their meanings.


JUPITERASC said:
IleneK, IMO the outer planets are generational and not personal... IMO you simply did not notice aspects made by other planets at that time, but just focused on Pluto.

The outer planets are newcomers on an astrological scene that was already many thousands of years old when they made their appearance. Uranus was discovered 13 March 1781, Neptune was discovered 23 September 1846 and Pluto was only discovered 18 February 1930

Modern Astrologers are only able to use Uranus, Neptune & Pluto since they were discovered with the use of powerful telescopes. So in relation to the outer planets, Modern Astrology depends upon the use of telescopes

Traditional Astrologers did not have these telescopes so could not and did not delineate Uranus, Neptune or Pluto. It is not possible to cram Uranus, Neptune or Pluto into Ancient Astrology. IMO delineation involving the outer planets is speculative currently. Here's a link to a previous discussion http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39021

Modern astrology is firmly based on ancient astrology and IMO its a great idea to learn the original techniques as practiced two thousand plus years ago so here are some links to threads you may find both useful and informative http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48308 as well as http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920 :smile:
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
IleneK said:
Hello, JupiterAsc. Thank you for your comments and references.

You are correct, Pluto is an outer planet. However, as it contacted a personal planet in my chart, the aspect is personal rather than generational. Everyone in my generation did not experience a Pluto transit to their natal Mercury, since Mercury is in many, many positions in my generation's charts.
I do agree that the discovery of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are modern and for that reason I tend not to use them as the ruler of the signs. But it is difficult to ignore the effect of an outer planet contact to one's natal chart, even if it cannot be easily understood by our conscious minds. And there is a substantial modern astrology describing the symbolism of the outer planets that can be very helpful in interpreting their meanings.
Click to expand...
IleneK, approximately three hundred thousand people world wide share your birthday. To allow an orb of only one degree either way means nine hundred thousand people worldwide experienced a "Pluto opposition to their natal Mercury" at the time that you did. That's close on a million people with most of their planets in identical placements to your planets (except for the Moon) all potentially losing interest in astrology at that precise time solely "because of Pluto" :smile:
 
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IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
I rest my case. Thank you for the conversation.

JUPITERASC said:
IleneK, approximately three hundred thousand people world wide share your birthday. To allow an orb of only one degree either way means nine hundred thousand people worldwide experienced a "Pluto opposition to their natal Mercury" at the time that you did. That's close on a million people all losing interest in astrology at that precise time solely "because of Pluto":smile:
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
IleneK said:
I rest my case. Thank you for the conversation.
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That's ok - however there is no proof that close to a million people all either gained or lost interest in astrology at that precise time :smile:
IleneK said:
Hello, JupiterAsc. Thank you for your comments and references. You are correct, Pluto is an outer planet .
Click to expand...
Perhaps not IleneK! Because it seems that approximately five years ago, astronomers declared that Pluto does not qualify as a planet - according to this article at this 2006 link from the National Geographic: - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060824-pluto-planet.html

QUOTE

Pluto has been voted off the island. "Whoa! Pluto's dead," said astronomer Mike Brown, California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, as he watched a Webcast of the vote. "There are finally, officially, eight planets in the solar system." In a move that's generating controversy and will force textbooks to be rewritten, Pluto will now be dubbed a dwarf planet. Not an exclusive club, since there are more than 40 of these dwarfs, including the large asteroid Ceres and 2003 UB313, nicknamed Xena—a distant object slightly larger than Pluto discovered by Brown last year. "We know of 44 dwarfs” Brown said. "We will find hundreds. It's a huge category."

IMO there's insufficient information and therefore IMO delineation of the two outer planets (and/or one dwarf planet) remains speculative pro tem in any event - however that is only my own opinion:smile:
 
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R.J.

R.J.

Banned
IleneK said:
Hello,


Astrology was my passion until transiting Pluto opposed my natal Mercury, ruler of my chart, and I lost interest in it. I was really annoyed and very upset at the loss, but with Pluto, we can only submit and hope to understand its purpose later on. I did and do continue to enjoy talking about astrology with my friends and to look at the charts of people I know, but I lost interest in generally interpreting charts.
Click to expand...


Hello Ilene:

Thanks for visiting this forum....

It's perfectly okay to lose interest in natal astrology and interpreting charts..

There was a point in my own astrology career when, I too, lost faith in astrology and threw it into the proverbial trash can... But, I came back (to astrology) on my own volition and now, I am a better astrologer and a better human being for it ?

Obviously, you have come to astrology for some very good reason and the natal chart is the first place to start...

But, there are other good reasons to study astrology...

Astrology... to known your place in the universe...

Astrology... for self-awareness

Astrology... to understand your family and human relationships...(composite astrology)

Astrology... to understand world events and events in your own country (mundane astrology), beyond your own neighborhood...

Astrology, for special questions, special events, as in career and personal event planning...(horary astrology)

Medical Astrology...to diagnose illness and/ore disease that medical science alone cannot diagnose or treat ?

Relocation astrology...to find out where on Earth... is the best place for you to live...

The list goes on and on...

Finally, if astronomers claim that Pluto is now a dwarf planet, please do not dismiss Pluto entirely...

I was born with natal Pluto in the 1st house and I can clearly see the energies of Pluto operating in my own daily life.

I do not need a "smart-*ssed" astronomer to validate what I already know about astrology... Most astronomers can be very prejudiced towards western astrology...and what is interesting is that many astronomers do not know how to construct and interpret a simple natal chart...

I was doing a public lecture on the History of Astrology at the University of Calgary, some years ago, when an astronomy student interupted my lecture and pretty much told me that astrology was "garbage " and a " pseudo-science " and what I was lecturing about was nonsense !

So, I said to him..okay Mr, Astronomer, please come up to the head lecturn,,,I have something to show you... Well, he had a stupid look on his face, like he didn't know what to expect next.. ?

So, I whipped out my OWN natal chart...and told him to interpret an actual natal chart in front of the whole lecture hall...(some 300 plus students in attendance ?)

Well, he kept making excuses, like... I'm NOT GOING to do THAT...astrology is NONSENSE according to my professor...Okay then, if astrology is so nonsensical, please interpret the natal chart... !.LOL

Well, he couldn't do it, so I replied... So, you think that astrology is full of sh*t, YET you can't even interpret a simple natal chart...after ALL , you are an expert in ASTRONOMY... LOL

So, in other words, you really don't understand western astrology at all, do you ?

How can you determine, then, that something is invalid, or " garbage"... if you have never formally studied it before ? That doesn't seem very scientific to ME !

Anyhow, the astronomy student had to return to his seat, sheepishly, like an inflatable rubber doll that had lost all of its air and shut up, since he knew that what I had told him was the truth ! LOL

Since 1975, I have performed approximately 6,000 natal interpretations and yes, natal Pluto speaks louder for some than for others...

But the transit of Pluto does impact the natal planets..And natal Pluto does impact the natal chart, especially if natal Pluto is found in the foreground of your natal chart...(ie in an "angular" house, such as houses 1, 4, 7 or 10?)

If you stopped doing natal charts when Pluto happened to oppose your natal Mercury, that is not so critical, since transits are MERELY transits...

The placement and transit of URANUS is much more important, since IT rules astrology and not Pluto...

In any event, the starts impel, they do NOT compel...


-Carl Payne Tobey


all the very best,


R.J. Smith
 
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IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
Hello, R. J.

Thank you for your kind response to my introduction. I have great respect for the symbolism of Pluto, Uranus and Neptune as they work in our lives, both natally and by transit. And I have greatly enjoyed this sudden re-awakening of interest in interpretation that, in fact, has coincided with a Uranian transit to the ruler of my Sun!

I appreciate your outlook and your generosity of spirit.

Kind regards,
 
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R.J.

R.J.

Banned
IleneK said:
Hello, R. J.

Thank you for your kind response to my introduction. I have great respect for the symbolism of Pluto, Uranus and Neptune as they work in our lives, both natally and by transit. And I have greatly enjoyed this sudden re-awakening of interest in interpretation that, in fact, has coincided with a Uranian transit to the ruler of my Sun!

I appreciate your outlook and your generosity of spirit.

Kind regards,
Click to expand...

thanks, dear...

Oh, transiting URANUS aspecting the natal SUN ! LOL

Do you realize what that's gonna do...It's going to mess up all your relationships with men ! LOL

I was born with natal Sun semi-square Uranus... with five minutes of arc !

The PITFALL of Sun/Uranus is that people might find you a LITTLE ODD or strange...at times ! LOL

After all, there's ALWAYS that temptation to be a COMPLETE maverick or eccentric !

Don't worry, you'll get used to it ! Others may not, though...

LOL

all the VERY best,


R.J. Smith
 
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IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
R.J. said:
thanks, dear...

Oh, transiting URANUS aspecting the natal SUN ! LOL

Do you realize what that's gonna do...It's going to mess up all your relationships with men ! LOL

I was born with natal Sun semi-square Uranus... with five minutes of arc !

The PITFALL of Sun/Uranus is that people might find you a LITTLE ODD or strange...at times ! LOL

After all, there's ALWAYS that temptation to be a COMPLETE maverick or eccentric !

Don't worry, you'll get used to it ! Others may not, though...

LOL

all the VERY best,


R.J. Smith
Click to expand...

The more we talk about it, the more I realize how transiting Uranus so surprised me! Its transiting square to natal Venus, ruler of my Sun and the 9th house, rekindled my attraction to and relationship with astrology...

I feel so pleased. Thanks for the chat!
 
RaptInReverie

RaptInReverie

Well-known member
Greetings Ilene K!

I just saw your reply to one of my comments on another thread, and I'm confused as to why I hadn't seen it before (the comment was posted days ago). Forgive me. I was probably too tied up in debate.

Anyway, glad to have you here. :cool:
 
IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
RaptInReverie said:
Greetings Ilene K!

I just saw your reply to one of my comments on another thread, and I'm confused as to why I hadn't seen it before (the comment was posted days ago). Forgive me. I was probably too tied up in debate.

Anyway, glad to have you here. :cool:
Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind welcome; glad to be here.
 
MaeMae

MaeMae

Banned
yes, thank you.
as long as our posts aren't subjectively, randomly edited or deleted with no notice, thank you.
as long as principle over personality reigns, thank you.
as long as you keep idiot trollers and spammers at bay, thank you.
you're doing great and keeping things real when you do.
a lot of work.
don't take shortcuts.
 
R.J.

R.J.

Banned
IleneK said:
The more we talk about it, the more I realize how transiting Uranus so surprised me! Its transiting square to natal Venus, ruler of my Sun and the 9th house, rekindled my attraction to and relationship with astrology...

I feel so pleased. Thanks for the chat!
Click to expand...


Interesting, since I happen to have natal Venus square Uranus ! Venus (10th house) and Uranus (conjunct ascendant) are "angular" in my own natal chart, so we can expect this dynamic to play out in the daily life...

That said, I believe that I have been quite faithful or loyal in my overall approach towards astrology and was once a full-time professional astrologer for many years... However, Venus/Uranus aspects can sometimes indicate strained relationships with internet colleagues and the like... ? LOL

Well, that has been demonstrated QUITE GENEROUSLY on this very forum...by the way !

That said, the RJ has a personal slogan in life...If you DON'T 'mess' with the RJ.... then the RJ won't MESS with YOU ! LOL

Oh Yeah.....

Your own personal transit (of Uranus) may not necesarily indicate strained relationships, but experience tells me that Uranus transits to the personal planets do not necesarily bring about permanent situations...

Therefore, it is quite possible.... that you MIGHT lose interest in astrology, again...!

So, how come I didn't lose (permanent?) interest in astrology... Well, I am not really sure...

I guess that my own perserverance with astrology demonstrates that the road to hell...is paved with good intentions ?

Anyhow, very nice chatting with you, Miss...

I really hope that you stay with our forum, since the level of astrological talent here is brilliant...and of a very high standard...And I'm not just speaking about myself...There are some very learned people... coming to this site and it's up to you beginners to take in this new knowledge ...

thank you...all the best...bye for now...

R.J.
 
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R.J.

R.J.

Banned
MaeMae said:
yes, thank you.
as long as our posts aren't subjectively, randomly edited or deleted with no notice, thank you.
Click to expand...

Hey Mae Mae:

LOL

That was a very important and profound comment. Thank you for mentioning it !

It probably p*ssed off... more than a few moderators ! LOL

After all, censorship is the enemy of truth...and the truth shall come out... in the wash, as my late Virgo grandmother often said...



R.J. Smith
 
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