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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 01-25-2015, 09:42 PM
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Degrees: Masculine, Femine, Lucid, Smokey, Dark, Void, Deep, Azemene, Increase f.

Hi, everyone
This is a thread for the different classifications of zodiac degrees. I hope you can help in clarifying which of them is the better...

The oldest classification of degrees that I know is F. Marternus’s list. They have some flaws —as you can see—: some missing degrees in Virgo and Scorpio, and 31 degrees in Cancer, Leo and Virgo…




These are the pitted and elevated degrees of Ib Ezra and Al Biruni



These are the full classification of Bonatti and Lilly, I had assumed that their lists were much more similar.



As you can see, There are very few similarities. What authors you trust?

And one last thing. Can someone post the complete lists of Ibz Ezra?
Thank you



Last edited by A Yian; 01-25-2015 at 10:17 PM.
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Unread 01-27-2015, 10:47 AM
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Re: Degrees: Masculine, Femine, Lucid, Smokey, Dark, Void, Deep, Azemene, Increase f.

The rest I can't speak to with any authority, but ibn Ezra's degrees were set for the year 1148 CE, or 5908 in the Jewish calendar. He wrote at some length about how they would have to be adjusted based on the positions of the fixed stars, which do move, albeit slowly.

All of which can be found in the Book of Reasons. In the first iteration of the text, after the explanation, we have:

But if he wants to pass astrological judgment by the method of the shapes [i.e., the zodiacal constellations], the bright and dark degrees, and the pits (so-called because they are very dark stars, as if a man had fallen into a pit), this year, which is the year 5908 he should subtract eight whole degrees. The positions of the large stars in each zodiacal constellation, mentioned in Reshit Hochmah, are given according to the method of the scholars who rely on experience and is the position of these stars in this time [i.e., in 1148].

In the second iteration of Book of Reasons, he says to subtract 8.5 degrees, but the two iterations contain enough differences that they were probably composed in different years.

He gets into a few of the controversies around corrections, but the important point is that the various types of degrees are based on the position of fixed stars, and since the fixed stars aren't completely immobile, you will need to correct for whatever year you're in.
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Unread 07-10-2016, 04:12 AM
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Re: Degrees: Masculine, Femine, Lucid, Smokey, Dark, Void, Deep, Azemene, Increase f.

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
The rest I can't speak to with any authority, but ibn Ezra's degrees were set for the year 1148 CE, or 5908 in the Jewish calendar. He wrote at some length about how they would have to be adjusted based on the positions of the fixed stars, which do move, albeit slowly.
If that is the case then what is the most up to date tables for the degrees? Is it Lilly's?
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Unread 07-10-2016, 04:16 AM
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Re: Degrees: Masculine, Femine, Lucid, Smokey, Dark, Void, Deep, Azemene, Increase f.

Go, thou, and read The Book of Reasons. The 'how to' is spelled out, in copious footnotes.
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Unread 07-10-2016, 04:17 AM
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Re: Degrees: Masculine, Femine, Lucid, Smokey, Dark, Void, Deep, Azemene, Increase f.

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Go, thou, and read The Book of Reasons. The 'how to' is spelled out, in copious footnotes.
Thank ya Odd
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