Scary Saturn + Scorpio Stellium?

Hello everyone

I'm having trouble interpreting my Saturn and making sense of my 5th and 7th houses. My 7th house is empty and ruled by Saturn. Saturn itself (sag) is in my 5th house. I've read a lot of troubling things about both of these and am quite worried.

In addition to Saturn, in my 5th there is also Sun (scorpio), Mercury (scorpio, retro), Venus (scorpio, retro) and Ceres (also scorpio). The house is also in scorpio, and my Pluto is chilling in the 4th. My 4th house is ruled by Venus...and this whole plutonian loop is getting me confused. What do you guys make out of this? Any help is appreciated!

I see a lot of talk about 7th house Saturn meaning delay, or different kinds of issues, and Saturn not being a very welcomed guest in the 5th either, especially in a fire sign like this. I can't figure out if I'm even marriable with all that Scorpio bonanza going on, and what kind of a man would that be to brave these deep waters...

How would this party in my fifth house relate to possible children? Other than them being a plutonian freakshow? Would this be an indicator of quantity as well? And would the 7th house possibly point at a partner with Saturnine qualities, or just the delay?

Thank you for your time!

It's hard to tell without seeing your chart and the type of aspects Saturn or Pluto (ruling the Scorpio Sat and 5H planets) is making but I don't think there is anything to worry about.

Saturn ruling/in 7H can mean a marriage later in life, married to someone older than you, someone with strong Saturn/Cap influences in their chart, or simply a long-lasting marriage! Or maybe all of the above!

I do know it's good to have the rulers of (or planets in) the 5H and 7H in good aspect to each other because that means romance and commitment go hand-in-hand. They don't feel as if they have to sacrifice one for the other. You have the ruler of the 7H, steady Saturn, in 5H - to you, romance IS commitment, and you take it seriously. This again leads us to the idea that regardless of their age or natal placements you should date someone mature.

As for children... with so many planets in 5H there are a lot of ways they could turn out lol. They could be Plutonian, Saturnian, Leonian, Mercurial... some combination of the four. My guess since you have such a packed 5H, and you bothered to ask the question, that you want children, and if you want children I'm sure your Scorpio planets will devise some way or another to get them lol.

Thank you for your reply! I posted my chart in this post http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62448

but no one replied. It has a little background on what my problems are and what's plaguing me. But I also want to learn about these things in general, so I can make more sense of these occurrences in other charts, as I am trying to learn.

In my case, romance IS commitment, but having my heart broken by a silly sag with serious plutonian overtones and issues, I do plan on taking more notice in astrology. I now I should find someone mature and experienced like me, but when will I find them? It's frustrating. I do indeed want children very much while I can still have them, and yes, hats off to scorpio resourcefulness lol But through all my patience, it is testing

Also, as my pluto conjuncts Sun, conjucts Venus, trines Jupiter and has a sextile with both Moon and Neptune, this would be the ruler of my entire chart, yes? Or what is a good way to determine the chart ruler on the general?

I'm sorry about your bad experience. At least you're not wasting anymore time (Saturn buzz word ;-) on something that won't pan out. Did this relationship make you realize how much you want the stability of marriage and a family, or is that something you had in mind going in? (I should probably read your other posts...)

If Scorpio is the sign on the cusp (i.e. beginning) of your 5H than it is the ruler of that house. I don't think your chart ruler is anymore relevant to your question than the rest of your chart.

Your chart ruler is the ruler of your ascendant sign/1H. For instance, I am Taurus Rising so my chart ruler is my Venus.

I don't think I know enough about transits to predict when you'll meet someone, but even if someone were to pinpoint a good time it's still up to you. Are you open to the idea of starting a family on your own, first? Or dating someone with kids from a previous relationship? Because it seems right now you want the whole package (which is not unreasonable!) more than all the courting and ironing-out process to get there.

I'll take a close look at your chart tomorrow and see if I have anything more useful to add. There are people on here much more knowledgable about fertility and relationships in a natal chart than I am, so hopefully they take a look too.

I know that I have to put myself out there to meet someone it was more of a random lament, though I wouldn't mind knowing when to pay more attention to it, this seems to be an ugly year with saturn all over the place. I'm trying to focus on making the best of it, using the chart mostly as a tool for some introspection. But since I know that other things can be seen there, I am quite curious, with that saturn-jupiter square of mine, I want to look forward to that next "up" period while I labor through the hard times that are now I would appreciate it very much if you would look at my chart, more data to feed this inquisitive mind and is always very good!

Since your Saturn is Sagittarius, I'm guessing you're 24-26 years old? Either way, you have some time yet before you start to feel Saturn's effects on you.

1st, I don't think you need to worry about your chart. What you have is what you have... you can't change it so you can't prevent or alter what can/will happen to you just from reading your chart. You gotta live and just try things out.

2nd, Scorpio stellium is scary LOL but it's not the end of the world. My father has Scorpio stellium (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Saturn) in the 7th house and guess what? He married my mother when he was 23. The kicker was, he was going to marry some other girl at 21 (before he got with my mother) but that girl broke off the engagement. Saturn ruling the 7th doesn't mean you won't marry nor does it mean that marriage would be delayed, nor that you won't find a partner until late in life. All that are MAJOR misconceptions about Saturn! Saturn ruling the 7th says more about YOU than it does about others. It's possible that you won't feel comfortable or mature enough to have a long-term relationship until you're older. It also may be an indicator that you won't know what a responsible, adult relationship/partnership is until you're past your 1st Saturn's return (30 years old) and may not know what you want out of a relationship until you're "older." Saturn ruling the 7th doesn't mean you'll be a spinster LOL so don't fret!

3rd, everyone has had their heart broken, and some have had it broken many times. That's just part of life and reality that when something doesn't work, it creates problems and you have to do something to remedy the problem... even if it means separation. That's a really tough lesson for any Scorpio stellium person to learn, and I'll have to say, even my father who's nearly 60 (he's going through his 2nd Saturn's return), he still has MAJOR difficulties letting go of anything. Eventually you'll find someone more suitable for you... it may take some trial and error. But what's life without trying? That's just how things go.

hello again, antique-loving saturnian! thank you for your encouraging words. The trouble is, my predictions about being able to have my own children (by a doctor not an astrologer!) weren't very favorable, essentially I was told that if I pray everyday, then til 30, after that, too risky and not going to happen. I'm turning 27 this year and I have to start from scratch (not only did my fiancee leave me, it also complicated my financial situation a lot. But in this sense, I do believe in my Saturn not letting me down if I work hard enough for it like I do and so I don't despair about this at all) Starting my own family is very important to me obviously, so I want to know if it is realistic or if I should just start coming to terms with it not really being an option...which is harsh, but if it would be the case, that is also life.

Trust me, my divorce started a few months before Saturn entered Libra and my divorce was finalized on the day that Saturn cross my chart. I do know what it's like to go through such a time of uncertainty and chaos and the thought of having to START all over?! OMG I was in shambles! I understand the dread and horrors about finding someone to love, someone who'll love and appreciate in return, and getting to the point where both agree to have a family and live life together. I understand that very much. I'm part of the Libra Saturn generation, and we're VERY insecure about that sort of thing!

I still say don't be too worried. I'm not saying your doctor is wrong, but you're still very young, and you have time. You may have to prep your body in specific ways to prepare for conception but there's been many couples who were told they can't conceive and yet they did. I think you have a lot of options available and you have time on your side to decide what options suit you.

My ex and I never had kids. I never gotten pregnant... I have empty 5th house in Aquarius/ruled by Saturn in the 1st. I'm pretty good with youngsters, I relate them, if they're not brats. I like well-mannered, smart children. But for me, I never truly envisioned myself with children. I honestly NEVER thought I'd marry either. And yet, marriage happened for me and when my ex and I were together, we talked about kids and I was fine with having one with him. We didn't set out to try, thankfully, and now, I wonder if maybe it's too late for me to find someone to have a solid, loving relationship and have a family. I can't seem to answer any of that, but I do know, after my 1st Saturn's return, my concept of what I want out of a relationship is crystallized. And I've made peace with myself that if I missed the boat on that part of life, I'll be ok with it. I tried and it didn't work out. So there's something to be said for Saturn being in charge of relationship houses, you gotta learn to ease up on yourself first.

may28gemini: well, for you it wasn't time wasted, as you did learn a lot about yourself and apparently have become much more comfortable with and mostly BY yourself. And that is definitely a victory. It is also "easier" to give yourself to another now, that your mind is much more clear and you have come to terms with many things, as you can focus more on *them* and not so much on your own issues and troubles, I do see that as a good thing! And I wish you luck in finding a mature partner with sufficient qualities to value this (and well, everything else ) about you.

To drag some of our Saturn talks from the other thread into here, the line I mentioned about myself might apply to you- maybe you should use the Saturn goodness in another way - "work" to find a someone/be in a place to be found to still be able to acquire a good functional relationship and possibly a family. Maybe then, it will be even sweeter, if you have truly come to terms with how things are now But I would try again, not just tell myself "oh well, I tried". You seem like quite a lady, one that could make some responsible and stable gentleman very happy and build something real, as opposed to what most people end up doing in relationships these days. I think this is an excellent quality, but too often taken for granted and not valued by other people. It's not all fun and games, when it comes to the heart (points at that Saturn lurking in the 5th), and therein lies my problem.

I have enough relationship experience (in my opinion), since I was 15, I was in long term relationships (1+ atleast) and most of my partners have been live in partners. Talk of children and marriage was very common, and if there was no chance for that relationship to go that route, I mostly wasn't interested. Which was also the problem with my last partnership. As much as we had plans of this sort, he would eventually start talking about not being ready, and was not committed enough for my liking, or willing to actually work on the relationship. I am tired of people who think that a working relationship grows on trees and it magically works by itself. I have been a teacher persona to many of my partners, and I am very dissatisfied with this, as I feel punished for not holding their lack of experience with long term serious relationships against them. That being said, my exs are grateful and many of them are my closest friends til this day, and we help each other out with everything, it partially goes in with my sense of duty, that even though we aren't together anymore, I shouldn't just "abandon them" if I have already broken off the relationship, but I stay as a loyal friend.

So this is why I was asking if Saturn ruling my 7th would indicate a partner with Saturnine traits and qualities, because that would be a very welcomed change in my life. I don't want another person who talks of commitment but doesn't really deliver when it comes down to it. All I ask from a partner are those things I do myself. And while that is pretty demanding, and people don't seem to match that, I do have an ideal of fairness in a relationship that goes a long way.

For BluEyedGrl105: I missed the first part of your post. I did have that in mind going into the relationship. And I have told him before we started dating, that I want to get married and settle down, and if he isn't looking for a serious relationship which would ideally lead to this, then I am not interested in pursuing anything.

Hi Sithae,

I am only a beginner in astrology yet, but I am a scorpio with cancer asc and with a stellium of mercury, mars, venus and uranus in my fifth house (in Scorpio), and I have neptune in the same house (but already in sag). so I have a loaded fifth house, too.

I just wanted to give you a heads up. personally, I never thought I would marry and I never imagined I would ever have kids. I actually planned to live as a hermit, possibly in the middle of a big forest, pondering on the ultimate mysteries of life and writing novels and poems.

So it was totally out of the blue when I met someone on an online forum (discussing depth psychology). We first met in person in less than a year, and we got married within a few months. After about two years of marriage, we had our daughter (now 3). He is an amazing capricorn, by the way. deep, with a big heart and a sharp mind.

So I just wanted to say that things do happen. They often require that we give up our sense of control, however. I don't mean going totally insane, but a bit mad, yes.

I ended up on that forum because I was following what really interested me at the time. so my advice would be: follow what really moves you and maybe you will bump into someone who shares your passion. And chances are it will be a true meeting, where you both are ready to accept yourselves and each other to be who you really are.

T.

Sithae: I do understand your frustrations with encountering unsuitable relationship candidates. It seems as if the world has gone completely bonkers and no one seems to "work" for anything anymore but are in the bad habit of "expecting" things to fall in their lap!! I know that feeling because I see that a lot amongst people born in the 80s (yours and my generation) and I am NOT happy nor optimistic in finding anyone if the majority of people are carrying on that attitude.

Thanks for the nice words. I am very fiery and my excessive air planets fans more of that fire so when I oscillate from my nice/meek/controlled Saturn Libra AC to my egotistical Aries DC, watch out! I can be quite ruthless and set everything ablaze! The only people that seem to understand me well are those with heavy Saturn and Pluto influences. But generally those that I encounter with such influences are already married or they're other females to which we become friends. Ach.

The issue is that there's NOT a lot of Saturnine people. If there were, we'd be blissfully enjoying the Golden Age 2.0 instead of competing with all the insane technologies, esp. handheld technologies and websites instead of just going out there and socializing with others to find someone. (No offense Therese)

We can't really do anything about making people more Saturnine... the world we live in now turned gross... I don't know what planet is the strongest now, maybe psychotic Uranus is running the show promoting everything and anything weird and perverted which is why traditional family values is now all muddied and casted down further than Hades.

...But that's just my rant as a Saturn 1st houser. We're "old" people even thought we don't necessarily look old or advanced in age LOL

As for the 5th house Saturn people... I am truly sorry. To be quite honest, I think that's really a very tough house for Saturn to inhabit as Saturn is all about control and 5th house is all about LOSING control! I think Therese is right. 5th house Saturn people need to "loosen" up a little of that planning and control and just go with the flow more. That doesn't mean that 5th house Saturn people aren't fun to be around with... I think they usually are but then they're always worried about where their fun will lead them which can put a damper on things prematurely.

One of my friends has Saturn, Jupiter, Pluto in the 5th house (OUCH) all in Libra. She's never been married, but she really wants to be, and have a family. She's had plenty of relationships but none of them panned out to anything that would lead to full commitment. She's been on like billions of dates with lots of people and quite frankly, I have NO idea how the heck she can handle all that BS. Any guy she meets she keeps thinking it would lead to something when those guys are the most UNSUITABLE not only for her, but for anyone who wants to have a mature relationship with. But then again, she has Neptune in 7th so there's the element of delusional relationships with truly unsuitable mates.

I think, particularly in your case Sithae, your loaded 5th house is literally the gateway to your 7th. If people don't past the muster in 5th, they're not advancing to the 7th. In the most real way, I think that's prudent to filter out people while having fun and spending some bonding time with them over sharing recreational activities. However, in practice, it's a major drag as that could seem like an eternity for you meet someone that you can have fun with but also is responsible/serious enough to get down to business and grow up. Very difficult to find that sense of balance. I know this.

Sithae, you have Capricorn 7th H and Capricorn moon... I go by whole signs chart system and that would mean you have Moon in the 7th. You find great emotionally fulfillment in relationships and love it very much. The unfortunate thing about 7th house Moon people is their relationships come and go with the tides... somewhat unstable and volatile. My mother has Pisces Moon in the 7th and yup... she and my dad had a very long moody 25 yr marriage filled with lots of highs, lows, and every other emotion possible. The thing is, after their divorce, they keep in touch. Moon in 7th people don't ever truly disappear from their former partners lives for good, nor do they want to get rid those from their past either.

As for your question on having Capricorn in 7th and whether that will attract a Saturnine individual as your mate... I cannot give you a definite answer. I would say, it's possible, but I observe the 7th house as being more purely about the individual and how they act/operate in relationships and very little insight to what their spouse/partner will be like.

That's a lot of text! (yay! that's a good thing in my world ) The thing is, before this last ex, I tried a guy who was quite a bit older (another scorp, what's wrong with me?) and I found out that as much as he's almost 40, he is just as bad if not worse than guys my age! Crazy expectations, selfish and refusing to work on things (I got so hurt last time excuse card), and in the end even a cheater. The last commitment worthy and able person in my life was another ex fiancee, a Taurus/Aries kind of guy, a couple of years ago. Since I've left him though, things have been awful. I thought I broke the spell with the last guy, who for the first half year seemed great, but his true colors eventually did shine through, even though he hid his "i want everything without doing anything" stance for a very long time. So now I'm fighting paranoia, because if someone can fake it/hide it so well for so long, then things are even worse out there, eek!

And I hear you, ALL the very Saturnian people are married/taken and have been for ages. And don't conveniently have similar friends, so I'm left to my own devices.

And it's true, traditional values seem to mean nothing to people, or again, they talk about it, but do nothing to prove the views. I think it's a time period where at first signs of issues people leave, and still think that out there there is something better, while often there isn't and they will chase after someone who doesn't exist, instead going into serial monogamy (the better result) discarding people left and right at any sign of disharmony. These same people want to be married until they die, but they barely even ever move in with anybody, let alone form something that can last a few years.

And with this in mind, it is very hard to loosen up, because the only way these broken relationships ever work is when I'm controlling it and myself. It's not what I want to do, but if no one else will, I'll do it. I would very much like to be more feminine and the less dominant one, but I have no idea where to get people like that. I met one fairly recently a Leo with Scorp rising, and lots of other volatile powerful things in the mix, and I wouldn't mind throwing a dish or two at someone. But I do question the same thing with everyone else, the commitment. He doesn't seem like someone who wants to settle down, so even though I am attracted to the idea of him (note the wording), I am scared it will go horribly awry. He is gone on a long vacation, but we'll meet again in a few months, so who knows. But the synastry was pretty scary, unless I would just be looking for some fun. But also on a psychological level, I don't exactly know what to make of him yet, and see both several issues and both rare traits I haven't seen in anyone since my first relationship.

I assume the 5th house would also say something about what kind of people would I find attractive? Because that would play into being demanding. My two biggest loves were both Scorp suns with strong and nicely aspected Mars, but still mostly plutonian people with water as the strongly dominant element in it. With both of them the issue was meeting too early, and silly mistakes were made, and things cannot be fixed anymore. After the second one, the line of pretty decent partners (i didnt value enough, or didnt want to tolerate a few things in my young age) kind of stopped, and after that save one, there was one bad choice after another, where I tried to be more patient and tolerant. And now it's at a point where I'm probably too patient and tolerant, and easily abused by all these broken inexperienced people. I took my cap moon and it's placement as one of the reasons why I go on and fix people instead of just passing on them.

Less ranting, more astrology. The Uranus and the freedom and unconventionality it brings well...mine is, surprisingly, guess where lol. I totally forgot about it in the first post, but, that too is in the 5th. My relationships do tend to be very interesting and original with original people, this coupled with my jupiter-saturn square does make for a very interesting life indeed. Though I would prefer a more boring one to be honest I'm up for all sorts of fun and trying different things and activities with my partners, as long as the main theme still is that it's a serious relationship. I joke about the fact that in these times my unconventional views on relationships = marriage, children and settling down since it's the opposite of what everyone else is doing

But I've also read some pretty bad stuff about Uranus in the 5th. So not sure how this one goes with all the rest there...

I think the psychotic part of Uranus is the wonkiness and unpredictability. Having a loose cannon in your 5th isn't really helpful as you're bound to encounter unstable types in your dating career. What's funny is those with Uranus 5th can also surprisingly be uber conventional/traditional/orthodox. But that goes back to the Uranus effect of being unpredictable, so anything can go!

Yup, the Saturnine people tend to marry very early on in life (as I did) and they usually stay married for a long duration (not like me). The thing with Saturnine people is if at the core level that they realize things aren't working, they will no longer stick with it and will do conscious things to separate themselves... without giving much notice. I've done that all my life, with all sorts of people- family, friends, and my exs. I find that it's quite easy for me to detach from others when I see that it's a repeated pattern to undermine solid foundations for the relationship. I got really good at weeding out useless people in my life during my Saturn's return. I especially got better at evaluating who's a solid person for me to keep in touch with. The reality of relationships is that it's not only pleasant but it has to be mutually beneficial in that both parties get something they want out of it. Those who don't have strong Saturn influences may not grasp that concept because it seems too harsh and even mercenary but life's all about exchanges. Quip pro quo. That's just how it is.

Society now isn't interested in seeing potentials and trying to test the waters to see if something good can get unearthed from it. That concept is lost among our generation, unfortunately. Although that concept isn't entirely lost upon those with strong Saturn and Pluto influences.

You're both Saturnine and Plutonian so I can understand where you're coming from. The downside to heavy Saturn and Pluto influences is the strong need to control and have power/ discipline over everything. I know this as I'm both Saturnine and Plutonian. It's sorta a struggle for me to let go of "control" because to me, I think most people are NOT strong nor worthy enough of any sort of power and forget about them being capable to operate on their own. I am suspicious of my environment and I'm not trusting of others in general. I see power slipping through the cracks and people getting battered by it and I only wish to correct that as I think that's wrong. However, oscillating to my Saturnine side, I realized my limitations is just as upsetting as it is useful. NOT the easiest lesson to learn. But it must be learned.

I think you'll be able to learn that in your own way, on your own time. Probably that challenge will present itself upon your Saturn's return. Either way, I think it'll be very useful. I think deep down inside, you wish very much to let go but fearful that if you let go, someone else will come in and misuse power and control you. You having the power and steering relationships may have been what you think is the answer to managing your relationships but I think at this juncture, you're starting to wonder if there's another way and explore other avenues.

hi may28gemini,

no offense taken.

as an aside, I think, however, that technology in itself is neither good, nor bad. It depends what we do with it, and as such, it is more a diagnostic tool. It's a bit like food, I mean, we have always had to eat since we are humans, but as far as I know, there have never been so many cases of eating disorders as there are today.

I consider technology similar. Humans have always used tools, the type of tools have changed, of course, but never before were people so much obsessed with their tools (and personally I count money in the category of "tools" as well) as nowadays. A lot of people seem to be confused and cannot tell the difference between a tool and a goal. Like, how many people you met who are obsessed with making as much money as possible? and when you ask them what they will do with it, they will give you a blank look. They will say things like they will buy the latest, expensive gadgets or other nonsense. A lot of people do not have anything constructive in mind that they would do with money, they want money for itself. for me, it is as weird as wanting a paper bag for itself. Sure it is very handy when you have a lot of stuff to carry from one place to another, it saves time to use it instead of carrying stuff two-three at a time, but I would never put it in the vitrine and worship it, lol.

so, personally, I am grateful for some of contemporary technology, and for the internet, as well. sure enough, there is plenty of waste out there, but such is the nature of life itself. You have always had to make efforts to separate chaff from seed, even if people nowadays are not willing to do that job, and don't seem to mind that they live their life surrounded by all kinds of (mental or physical) junk.

with my virgo moon conjunct with saturn in the third house, I am really not the one to get out to socialize. on the other hand, i do not have the same inhibitions when i write. quite the opposite. I am able to write about anything, even things that most people would never share with anyone. I guess if i had born a century or two earlier, I would be one of those silent ladies living in seclusion, with an extensive correspondance discussing philosophy and art while their immediate environment would have no idea about who they are... and i would probably have a diary of a hundred volumes Yes, I do love Emily Dickinson

About control: for me, changing the way I relate to power changed my whole life. Power IS transformation. Thinking of power as control did not only limit others, most of all it limited myself. Control is actually the opposite of power. I want control when I feel powerless. When I feel powerful, I am able to let things and people do what they want and be who they are because I feel they have no power over me, I am in my own power, so to speak. When I do not feel powerful, however, I want to control. But by now, most of the time, I just catch myself in the act. And say to myself "you are feeling insecure? and do you really think trying to control is the way to make it go away?" and off I go for some introspection.

T.

Hello Therese I love the paper bag analogy and totally agree with you on that one. I grew up in a family where there was money, but while I know it's value, it's not a big deal to me. It's just means and I don't like people who get blinded by it, because I think that's just silly and through this, you can't see many other good things and important things about life.

I'll also side with you on that technology side. I worked in IT, like the field and I am considering getting back to it, when possible. Maybe that's where my Uranus in the 5th comes to play a hand too. Creative use of technology, since I did some programming and was a project manager on a several years ongoing online project. Ultimately though I find that working in IT turns me into a workoholic and as much as I was pretty good at it, I dislike programming, when there isn't that much creativity involved. Now I was looking to learn a different IT field, where analysis is the most important thing, not creation. Thinking I can use all those Scorp things to get to the bottom of the problem

To each their own ladies, I like going out, just as much as I like staying in. There are good things to be found everywhere if one wants to find them I suppose. Using technology as a creative outlet would seem like a good idea in Therese's case, if it makes her feel that much better. Though I guess the point is, don't forget that there is good stuff out there too How's your Jupiter by the way? It wouldn't happen to be retrograde?

I have that, and I notice that what's outside is not as interesting as the stuff that is inside of me, it connects to the whole 5th house mess by trining both Sun and Venus, squares that Saturn and trines the 5th house ruler, Pluto. The only riches I'm concerned in with life is richness of the emotional sort, the one I want to have in a relationship, and answers to other questions about happiness and spirituality and everything else, I just look in the inside and see what resonates and go with that. Trouble is that with the Jupiter touching everything that way, I feel sort of trapped, because if I don't get that dream of a nice loving marriage and family, I'm probably going to go visit a nearby tree, rope in hand. Also ties in now (heh heh, puns ) with the whole depression and new start period, as I have some Saturn transits on this year, the labor, oh the labor. Come back, Jupiter, dammit.

hi Sithae,

it is funny because i did not grow up with money, and this is an understatement, but i concluded very similar things about money as you did. We did not have much, but this taught me how little we actually need. Most of my clothes were the clothes of outgrown stuff of the kids in the extended family, they always arrived in big sacks, and it was fun to go through them and see what was usable. We used to make two packs: one that we could wear to school, and the other that were too worn or stained, etc, that were only for home. never bugged me. I was happy as long as i had my library membership card, i read about 8-10 books a week...

The only thing i did mind was the cold in winter. There are two luxuries I hope to have for the rest of my life: privacy and heating. I never had my own room until I moved away from home, and being able to spend some time on my own is very important to me. and I would have a hard time getting used to wearing a coat at home again and feeling so cold all the time for months in the winter... but if I end up with that, I will cope with that, too.

And Jupiter ... well, it is the odd-one-out in my chart. I don't really have a handle on it. Well, actually, it is a handle, no, sorry, a lead, of my bowl pattern. But I just don't resonate to what is said about it. It is in the first house, it's leo, and it is square my sun. I don't really feel like a grandiose type of person who has everything landing on her lap for free and who thinks life should be a free ride, nor do I have "VIP" tattoed on my forehead. Nor am I a gambler. And I am not madly optimistic either. so what the heck, i guess i will have to wait and see about that one.

T.

I don't really ever say this, as in reality, the majority of charts are mediocre at best; Therese, can I see your chart? You sound quite interesting to me. If you agree, can you please set it to whole signs system?

Very fascinating read on how Jupiter played out for both you ladies! Sithae, I always wondered about how Pisces Jupiter manifests as Pisces is not concerned about the material world but more intuned with the spiritual world (unless there's an earth Mars counterbalancing that or something to that strong of an effect) and you've illustrated what I thought would be natural for Pisces Jupiter to think: knowing the value of money but not really caring about it.

I have 0 Libra Jupiter which is at the very beginning of my chart, which is really uber cool. So aside from me being Saturnine and Plutonian (in a Libran way), I'm actually predominantly Jupiteran. Since my Jupiter and Saturn are conjunct and in Libra... balancing is always the main theme, no matter what the money circumstances are. Both planets conjunct my AC (lucky person), trine my 8th house Mars (obtaining other people's money-money gains through spouse), sextile 2nd house Uranus (unusual circumstances of obtaining money thru the self), and trine Sun (cheery and practical outlook).

I do know the value money and costs (Saturn) but I also know the pleasures, comforts, and joys it can bring (Jupiter). I really enjoy things when I have more money, I know when to me super frugal when necessary but I never sacrifice enjoyment even when I have less. Everything must operate on a pleasant level no matter what.

I was born into a family that had some money but it wasn't always consistent. My mother came from money (she has 1 Libra Jupiter- must have inherited it from her) but by the time I was a toddler, money was quickly draining. From the ages of when I was 6-10 we were living meagerly and renting. We hardly had any possessions and we were always moving. There wasn't money for any luxury goods such as nice clothes but I was sent to "good" schools, decently groomed, and I was well-fed. I didn't look poor and I didn't acted poor either. If anything, I seemed like I was just a more subtle version of my wealthy friends. I hated wearing my old clothes so very much and I hated that my parents took me to Payless Shoes Store when the other kids at my school were wearing designer labels. But looking back on that, because I went through a period of meager living circumstances as I child, I don't care for labels and go for things I like.

When I was 11, my dad (Scorpio Sun with Libra Mars) was about 37 or 38, he inherited money from his father's death. I don't know what the exact amount was... but it was quite a nice amount being that it was his father's life savings (Capricorn Sun with Scorpio Mars). I think it was nearly 100k back in the very early 90s so that's a lot of money. Anyway, that money gave our family a leg-up... but the timing was uncanny as it also coincided with my father's career taking off and making a lot of money which by then, my mother worked full-time and so money was pouring in from 3 outlets. Suddenly, I went from being the "poorest" kid in my school and neighborhood to being one of the more well off...practically overnight. My parents bought me designer clothes, I got a new car when I was 17 (only because I crashed my mom's car LOL), and they paid for pretty much everything I wanted. But because I spent a large portion of my formative years NOT getting what I wanted, I didn't want anything outrageous or super expensive when my parents had the means to providing.

During college years, my father paid everything for me... car, apartment, food, insurance, etc. He even still gave me an "allowance." Meanwhile, my peers were busting their butts, some had 2 or 3 jobs and supporting themselves and going to school part-time, I was going to school full-time and didn't have to work at all. Even my grad school was paid for.

Before my marriage, my ex (also has Jupiter-Saturn Libra conjunction) got to cash in part of his trust fund and boy were we having a blast then! We didn't party Vegas style but we lived comfortably without having to work for quite a long time. When he got to cash in part of his trust, I also came into some money... again, through my father (to be clear, he's NOT dead). So both my husband and I were rolling. We always ate out - 3 meals a day, wore nice clothes, drove nice cars and there were 6 of them between us (yes, 6 cars), and on top of that... people were super puzzled as to how the heck we've managed that when neither of us were working!

After my divorce, I had to scale back. About 9 months after, I lost my job so then I had to rapid scale back even more. I didn't feel any pain going from living comfortably to just having the basics. I was still paying $1100/mo for my studio apartment in San Francisco (one of the most expensive places to live!) and I was still eating out a lot. I did start to cook more frequently at that time but for someone who was "broke" in terms of being unemployed, I still had ways to pay. Again, people were puzzled how I could live alone without having a job LOL

Anyway, now, in the thick fog of the biggest recession the States has seen (bigger than the 30s and far far worse than the 70s), I don't have a full-time job but I have several little jobs I do as a freelancer. I still live alone... but rent is much cheaper (plus) and the apartment is bigger (big plus). I don't have any furniture except for 3 chairs, a desk, a little end table I use for my laptop, and a decorative little table I use to put my bread on. I've been sleeping on an air mattress for the past 2 years (sounds austere but I don't mind it). I still have nice clothes that I love so much and nice shoes (being a vain Libra rising that I am) from my days of having more money. I was always good at bargain hunting since I was a small child so I started to use that skill more frequently after my divorce.

Now is the MOST meager circumstance I've been in since I was 10 yrs old. I'd say, oddly, it took about 18 years for the scales to tip over on the other side but it coincided with the start of my Saturn's return (so it makes sense). I'm pretty happy now. I wasn't happy during my Saturn's return, but I've been pretty darn happy after it was over. Saturn sorta drained my well but he didn't hang me out to dry, not the way that he did for some of my friend with Libra Saturn (boy do I got a lot of Saturn return stories!) People always wonder why I look so happy and being annoyingly optimistic when I'm always broke. All I can say is, I won't be broke forever and I see no point in being down. Although, I'd probably be ecstatic with more money but who wouldn't be? LOL

hi may28gemini,

I think you will be a bit disappointed with my chart, personally, I don't see anything special in it, but I am an almost total beginner in astrology. The bad news is that my birth time is a half-hour window. they do not register the time of birth in my country of origin, only the date. If there is anything that catches your eye in the chart and you want my birth data, please send me a pm. I am a wee bit too private a person to just put it out there

so as I see it, the main difference between the versions of my chart seems to be that if I was born in the former quarter of the half-hour, then it is only my sun that is inconjunct with my MC, but if I was born in the latter quarter, then my sun and moon (in sextile) are both inconjunct with my MC. and of course the later I was born, the more my MC moves into aries.

hey, in the whole sign system, my sun is in the fifth house (not in the fourth), jupiter is in the second (not in the first) and my neptune is in the sixth (not in the fifth)! Why do you prefer this method?

T.