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  #1  
Unread 05-15-2012, 12:29 AM
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Opinions

Wondering about theories on the following;

Relationship horary
Quesited is Mercury in Querent/Jupiter's sign, Pisces
So Mercury feels for Jupiter but is also in fall AND detriment

For planets in this situation, what does it mean exactly? If you are in love, shouldn't that strengthen your mood, your optimism, your ability to face life, etc.,? But what do i know about love really? How could that love put you in such a poor condition?

Specifically, for Mercury say - does this mean the feeling he has for Jupiter is not good for them? It makes them weak in the worst way possible, I know, but how is that likely to manifest in the relationship?


Last edited by SagiCap; 05-15-2012 at 01:53 AM.
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Unread 05-15-2012, 01:53 AM
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Re: Opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Wondering about theories on the following;

Relationship horary
Quesited is Mercury in Querent/Jupiter's sign, Pisces
So Mercury feels for Jupiter but is also in fall AND detriment

For planets in this situation, what does it mean exactly? If you are in love, I truly grew up thinking that strengthens your mood, your optimism, your ability to face life. But what do i know about love really? How could that love put you in such a poor condition?
Consider this situation,

Ms. Mercury is in love with Mr. Jupiter who's already in a relationship/love with Ms. Venus.
Now, that's certainly not something to be happy about.
A significator in detriment/fall & peregrine shows that the querent is at a disadvantage, powerless & unable to maneuver the situation to her advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Specifically, for Mercury say - does this mean the feeling he has for Jupiter is not good for them? It makes them weak in the worst way possible, I know, but how is that likely to manifest in the relationship?
Ms. Mercury is in an unhealthy relationship with Mr. Jupiter. This guy abuses her, cheats on her or/& doesn't satisfy her needs( something as simple as not spending quality time with her).
It could even be a long distance relationship which instead of pumping more dopamine, ***** out whatever sunshine she has in her life. She could be brooding over the distance.

If Jupiter was in detriment, lord of a malefic house, aspecting Mercury from a malefic house, combust or in a sign where mercury is in detriment/fall, then I'll say that Jupiter is not Mr. perfect.
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  #3  
Unread 05-15-2012, 02:05 AM
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Re: Opinions

Scorpittarian has this one pretty well down. The only thing I could think to add as a comment is that the two feelings are probably related. Mercury being in detriment and fall definitely shows that it is unable to face or overcome the problem in some way, but it could also show these feelings and this attention to be detrimental to other areas of Mercury's life. Maybe Mercury is falling behind at work or not sleeping well because of this attraction to Jupiter.

Just some things to consider.
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  #4  
Unread 05-18-2012, 04:51 AM
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Re: Opinions

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Originally Posted by scorpittarian View Post
Consider this situation,

Ms. Mercury is in love with Mr. Jupiter who's already in a relationship/love with Ms. Venus.
Now, that's certainly not something to be happy about.
A significator in detriment/fall & peregrine shows that the querent is at a disadvantage, powerless & unable to maneuver the situation to her advantage.

Ms. Mercury is in an unhealthy relationship with Mr. Jupiter. This guy abuses her, cheats on her or/& doesn't satisfy her needs( something as simple as not spending quality time with her).
It could even be a long distance relationship which instead of pumping more dopamine, ***** out whatever sunshine she has in her life. She could be brooding over the distance.

If Jupiter was in detriment, lord of a malefic house, aspecting Mercury from a malefic house, combust or in a sign where mercury is in detriment/fall, then I'll say that Jupiter is not Mr. perfect.

Interesting slant. Well, in this case, I'm Jupiter and he's Mercury. I'm not abusing anyone, lol. Why do you think that Jupiter is so ruthless and awful here? (Jupiter was in Taurus and in the 5th. I think I've posted it here before...?) I see the nature of Jupiter to be quite the opposite.

Jupiter and Merc were not aspecting, but Moon and Merc were eventually. I will try to find the link of the chart soon for more clarity. Tks!
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Unread 05-18-2012, 10:23 AM
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Re: Opinions

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Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Interesting slant. Well, in this case, I'm Jupiter and he's Mercury. I'm not abusing anyone, lol. Why do you think that Jupiter is so ruthless and awful here? (Jupiter was in Taurus and in the 5th. I think I've posted it here before...?) I see the nature of Jupiter to be quite the opposite.

Jupiter and Merc were not aspecting, but Moon and Merc were eventually. I will try to find the link of the chart soon for more clarity. Tks!
I don't know what the real situation is. These are just a few interpretations.

It's highly possible that Mercury is not doing well in some life area(doesn't have to be related to Jupiter). eg. : bankrupt.

Once I was Moon in Capricorn. I simply felt terribly insecure(& hurt by his words) in that relationship, to the point of obsession.

The relationship could be truly detrimental to him. eg. : friends don't like Ms. Jupiter so they decide to part ways, family pressure. He's so much in love with you that he neglects his studies, job, responsibilities.

It could be descriptive of his character(in detriment).

Or could be that he has to behave out of character for some reason.
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A man was wandering around a fairground and that's when he happened to see an astrologer's tent. Thinking it would be good for a laugh, he went inside and sat down.

"Ah!", said the woman as she gazed at the stars. "I see you are the father of two children."

"That's what you think," said the man scornfully. "I'm the father of THREE children.

"The woman grinned and said, "That's what YOU think."

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Unread 05-19-2012, 09:00 AM
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Re: Opinions

Wait, I have to say more about this. Looking back over this, some mistakes were made.

Quote:
Relationship horary
Quesited is Mercury in Querent/Jupiter's sign, Pisces
So Mercury feels for Jupiter but is also in fall AND detriment
No, Jupiter receives Mercury into his domicile, but this isn't even really important yet. First we must consider if these two planets are even in an aspect. If no, well that's not good, if yes, then cool. I'm assuming Jupiter is in Taurus for this.

So, we're going to assume that Mercury is in Pisces and represents the queisted (I believe this is correct), whereas Jupiter is in Taurus and represents the querent. You consider speed to show who is more interested in pursuing the relationship. Typically it would be Mercury which shows that our queisted is more interested in the relationship right now. Assuming an aspect between the two, it would be a sextile which is beneficial as it's friendly. If Mercury is applying the sextile, it could show that the queisted is interested in developing the relationship further, if Mercury is separating the sextile, it could show Mercury's willingness to end the relationship.

Now we can look into the reception to see how the sextile will be expressed. Mercury is being received by Jupiter into his domicile, which shows our querent's acceptance of whatever advances Mercury might make. Jupiter cannot be received by Mercury because Mercury is so heavily debilitated.

Basically to summarise all this (assuming an applying sextile), Jupiter is open to Mercury's advances, Mercury would like to develop the relationship because he moves more quickly, but Mercury won't approach Jupiter because Mercury is so heavily debiliated. Mercury is either not confident (and thus fears rejection) or has something else going on in its life that makes this relationship not as important or likely in reality.

I hope this helps. Sometimes I read through things too quickly without really understanding what I'm agreeing with.
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Last edited by Kaiousei no Senshi; 05-19-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 05-19-2012, 12:39 PM
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Re: Opinions

oh this is a good thread
sagicap you allways have great questions

answers a question i had also



Quote:
Jupiter is open to Mercury's advances, Mercury would like to develop the relationship because he moves more quickly, but Mercury won't approach Jupiter because Mercury is so heavily debiliated. Mercury is either not confident (and thus fears rejection) or has something else going on in its life that makes this relationship not as important or likely in reality.
what if mercury was applying to a conj with jupiter in taurus with no interfearance, moon in pisces headed for jupiter

I dont want to jump in on sagicaps thread but i wondered about mercury being in taurus aspecting jupiter.
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Unread 05-19-2012, 01:34 PM
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Re: Opinions

Just take what I said above as a framework and plug in your significators and situation to it to see what you can't work out.

Who is faster? Is there an aspect? Is there reception? What about the two planets individually?
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Unread 05-20-2012, 02:34 AM
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Re: Opinions

thanks
umm i was just replacing merc in pisces with merc in taurus in this same question sagi/cap has asked about
i dont know about reception i get stuck in this part of astrology sorry

id say taurus merc going to taurus jupiter without interfearance would be good? I dont know if merc in taurus is good or not?

id say its probably just like what you said here... If this is the case then Ive learnt something here.. much thanks

Quote:
Jupiter is open to Mercury's advances, Mercury would like to develop the relationship because he moves more quickly, but Mercury won't approach Jupiter because Mercury is so heavily debiliated. Mercury is either not confident (and thus fears rejection) or has something else going on in its life that makes this relationship not as important or likely in reality.
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Unread 05-20-2012, 04:44 AM
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Re: Opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiDi View Post
oh this is a good thread
sagicap you allways have great questions

answers a question i had also





what if mercury was applying to a conj with jupiter in taurus with no interfearance, moon in pisces headed for jupiter

I dont want to jump in on sagicaps thread but i wondered about mercury being in taurus aspecting jupiter.
Please DO jump in. I learn from you as well. Yea, I tend to have A LOT of questions. I don't think I'll ever 'get' horary.

For your example - I think it could be very positive as a conjunction/ "blending" of the two signifactors, but depending on how you phrased the question, it could be just a sexual union, which is how I've often seen conjunctions manifest in relationship horaries. The question here would be very important.

KNS, would you say you use a different method of reception that some here on the thread use too? Its opposite from what the others have said. This has been my pet peeve that we don't post enough outcomes to really know what works. Would be so helpful to do that. Can't stress it enough and I try to follow up with mine as well.

So in your specific case, Did, who is Mercury? Querent? Leaving that out, I'll say,

Taurus - they are both in signs exalting the Moon. That's a positive here. Also positive that both signifactors' dispositors happens to be the lovely Venus. Where is Venus in the chart?
Mercury in Taurus is iffy in quality I'd say. Mercury is super-quick, Taurus is s l o w and deliberate. It's debilitated in that way to act. Mercury isn't very strong in the beginning 15 deg of Taurus at all I think. It only gets a face dignity when it reaches 10 from what I recall. I guess a love interest of this placement would be slow, methodical, deliberate and stubborn to act upon and start an action. Jupiter in Taurus is peregrine. I wouldn't say either players here are strong, but this a conjunction we're talking about. The aspect/action is there. It'll happen. Will they be strong enough to sustain a relationship would be my concern. Are they also cadent? What house are they in?
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Last edited by SagiCap; 05-20-2012 at 04:50 AM.
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Unread 05-20-2012, 06:24 AM
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Re: Opinions

thanks sagi/cap

Ill give you the senario
suprisingly bumped into my ex of 8 yrs.. I called it of 2.6 yrs ago, other than seeing him driving past and staring at me and some unexplained private calls after seeing me we have not talked.

I ran into him in the groc store and my mind was on so many other things and there he was all facing me away from his goods and eyes & face smiling at me like we never split. ( hes usually a extreem causious man)
he wantd to say hi and keep talking but i was in shock and after saying hi i turned away from him and i was looking sad and looking at the floor and went on to go thru the checkout he was watching me throu the crack and when driving in front of me was looking in his revision at me as he turned into his street.
I felt so bad but i feel very insecure (as kns has explained about mercury) I have lots of pain in me when i looked at him (suprised me cause im normally happy to pretend im happy)
so I couldnt make small talk to a man im in love with who hurt me and yes ive put on heeps of weight so i feel very insecure... but i do love him and want to work things out

the reason i wanted to say this whole story was to get the message of the mercury jupiter aspect that kns had described to a "T"

I came home thinking well hes seen me fat now and i gave him no reason to think i wanted to sort something out so Ive fked it up!

I did an event chart... you know just like a horary but at the time we seen one another to see what was going on.

why was he so happy to see me what does he want out of it?

me merc in taurus 10.30 = 11th H
him jup in taurus 23.31 = 11th H
moon pisces 18.31 = 9th H
venus gemini 23.59 = asc my house ruler of venus 11th H

what I got was moons next aspect to him jupiter
merc applys a conj to jup with no interfearance
I liked that venus in my asc also ruled the 11th H where our conj takes place
moon rulership is under his rule jupiter

I was reading on here (may have been you) lol
asking if both signifers have the same ruler what happens
as someone has said then you look at the moon to see what its doing with the ruler of the 2 signifers

first moon sextiles him then squares venus out signifers

I know it takes a square to bring something about and that is what would be needed to get togther for a chat... funny im mercury wanting the chat lol
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Unread 05-20-2012, 06:40 AM
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Re: Opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiDi
umm i was just replacing merc in pisces with merc in taurus in this same question sagi/cap has asked about
i dont know about reception i get stuck in this part of astrology sorry
Yeah, that's pretty much going to be the difference here. I don't think either planet receives the other in this situation, but you have a conjunction and that's really the most important part. Bonatti tells us that conjunctions don't need reception to perfect the matter, but reception will just make it easier. My main thought on your set-up (not really knowing what's going on in the rest of the chart) Mercury wants to develop the relationship but being peregrine is going to make Mercury hesitant to approach Jupiter. However, Mercury is in a generosity with Venus, so whatever Venus signifies could help Mercury feel more confident. Jupiter is likely to reject Mercury because Jupiter is Combust, which signifies some other person or situation overshadowing Jupiter. Is it possible he is seeing someone else?

Wait wait wait!! Important update! I was just talking with a friend when they reminded me that Jupiter is conjunct Algol. I don't recommend meeting up with this guy. Significator Combust of the Sun and conjunct Algol. Something's not right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap
KNS, would you say you use a different method of reception that some here on the thread use too? Its opposite from what the others have said.
I just follow what Lilly, Bonatti, Ezra, etc have said and shown about reception. John Frawley kind of messed up receptions in the modern era in his horary book which has led to a bit of confusion.
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Last edited by Kaiousei no Senshi; 05-20-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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Unread 05-20-2012, 10:22 AM
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Re: Opinions

Is that what combustion means
that they are with someone else?


Quote:
Lilly wrote of this: "The significator of the Querent combust, shows him or her in great fear, and overpowered by some great person". (CA., p.113)
ref..skyscript


this man is 38 and never been in a relationship he admittingly says he doesnt like the life style and does not want children. we were seeing one another for 8 yrs and the last 4 we were only sexual with each other and was probably like a relationship in which you dont crowd the other person.. I too wanted this to a point.
I wouldnt know if he did decide to change his mind now and started seeing someone, going from his personality he would not have made a big deal out of seeing me if he was with someone as hes the run & hide type and all i would have gotten was a nod of the head if he was committed to someone else.... but like i said i canot know that for sure.

pretty upset seeing it written here I guess if lilly says hes with someone else then that is that!

ive been combust before and i wasnt with anyone else


Quote:
conjunct Algol
this means the person is not good for you hey?

from what im reading here mercury (me) is also combust the sun 14 degrees for mercury
im not being restriced by the sun thou, just my own hurt

Last edited by DiDi; 05-20-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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Unread 05-20-2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: Opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiDi
Is that what combustion means
that they are with someone else?
It doesn't necessarily mean that they are with someone else. Combustion just means that there is some other person or some situation that prevents them from acting, in relationship questions it's usually a safe bet to guess that this represents another person, but it's not always correct (just usually my go-to interpretation). Another idea would be to check what house the Sun is ruling and see if that fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiDi
this means the person is not good for you hey?
Algol is a very malefic star, it's associated with "losing one's head" either literally through death (though very rarely), figuratively through anxiety, fear, paranoia, or rage, and can show an unstable person. Definitely something to keep your guard up about.

Quote:
from what im reading here mercury (me) is also combust the sun 14 degrees for mercury
im not being restriced by the sun thou, just my own hurt
Is Mercury 15° near to the Sun in your chart? If so, it's under the beams. This typically shows someone who is acting without clarity, the situation is fuzzy so they may not be getting the full story before they act.
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Unread 05-20-2012, 11:49 AM
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Re: Opinions

Kaiousei no Senshi

you are a well of information thankyou very much for your responces and help

sun is 24.33 ruler of the 3rd house... so family?

even thou he says he will do what he wants with whom he wants in regards to his family he does have resevations that his family will have something to say about us... im 9 years older with 3 adult children
him very old fashioned italian family, not sure it might be the problem

mercury 10.30 taurus
sun 24.33 taurus

Quote:
Is Mercury 15° near to the Sun in your chart? If so, it's under the beams. This typically shows someone who is acting without clarity, the situation is fuzzy so they may not be getting the full story before they act.
this is how i was for sure
thanks again
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