Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

[Oddity]

I can see it - thanks. Ran it up in my own software anyway because I use some calculations astro.com doesn't.

The almuten can actually skate into mystical territory - some people believe it's the link to your holy guardian angel (this predates Crowley by many hundreds of years, it's not Thelemic). Lord of the Geniture can be similar.

I've never found an astrological technique that works 100% of the time for everyone, but the almuten often shows the most important aspects of life for you - with Venus it would be beauty, love, art, with Jupiter it could be the quest for philosophical knowledge.

Mars is your out-of-sect malefic, so it can show some real trouble spots in your life, but - it doesn't define you. The accident-prone and clumsiness probably comes of Mars square Saturn, since Saturn rules your ascendant, and the ascendant represents you, your life, and your body.

You have a complicated chart.

[JUPITERASC]

Lord of the Geniture info http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/geniture.html
Detailed article

[happywhovian]

Originally Posted by Oddity

The almuten can actually skate into mystical territory - some people believe it's the link to your holy guardian angel (this predates Crowley by many hundreds of years, it's not Thelemic). Lord of the Geniture can be similar.

I've never found an astrological technique that works 100% of the time for everyone, but the almuten often shows the most important aspects of life for you - with Venus it would be beauty, love, art, with Jupiter it could be the quest for philosophical knowledge.

Mars is your out-of-sect malefic, so it can show some real trouble spots in your life, but - it doesn't define you. The accident-prone and clumsiness probably comes of Mars square Saturn, since Saturn rules your ascendant, and the ascendant represents you, your life, and your body.

You have a complicated chart.

In what way does it seem complicated?
Always got problem using Cappy as my ascendent, never felt like its me.
When I first begin learning astrology, i used the wrong time of birth, which was 3.43 pm, accidentally. Used the wrong asc, Aqua.

Thank you!

Still got a lot of readings to do on this. Waiting patiently to figure out my friends'.


To JUPITER,

Thank you!!

[emily23]

Lord of the geniture! Wtf does that mean?sorry, sounds so strange and ridiculous bye

Suppose its slightly better than Almuten of the figure lololol

Dont get me wrong i love our astro forefathers but toooo funny!!!

[Bunraku]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Geniture?s=t


geniture
[jen-i-cher, -choo r]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun
1.
birth; generation.
2.
Astrology, nativity.


1540-50; (Middle French) < Latin genitūra. See genital, -ure

___
Origin of genital
1350-1400; Middle English < Old French < Latin genitālis of birth, equivalent to genit (us), past participle of gignere to beget + -ālis -al1

Word Origin and History for -ure
suffix forming abstract nouns of action, from Old French -ure, from Latin -ura.

[Bunraku]

I must admit that the archaic words and sentence structures are one of hurdles when learning traditional astrology.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by emily23

Lord of the geniture!
Wtf does that mean?
sorry, sounds so strange and ridiculous
bye

In this particular context of an astrological chart
geniture = natal chart
Lord = one of the planets ~ i.e. Lord of Aries is Mars, Lord of Taurus is Venus and so on

keep in mind that future generations may be weirded out by the idea that
'wicked' has changed in meaning

and for some

'cool' has nothing to do with temperature

Originally Posted by emily23

Suppose its slightly better than Almuten of the figure lololol

ALMUTEN - The strongest planet when all essential dignities are considered.
The term is Arabic and derives from al-mateen, meaning 'the firm one' or 'strong in power',
but the concept exists in the works of Ptolemy and other early classical astrologers.

The method of identifying the almuten involves considering the full range of essential dignities,
so that rulership by sign, exaltation, triplicity, term and face is considered - not just rulership by sign.
Hence Venus is said to rule the sign of Libra but Saturn is the almuten,
being capable of assuming rulership by exaltation, triplicity, term and face. h http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/almuten.html

A point scoring technique is often used to determine the almuten of any given point.
This, and further details are outlined in part 5 of the tutorial Understanding Planetary Dignity and Debility.

The Almuten of the Figure is the most dignified planet in the chart.
This is often confused with the Lord of the Geniture
but generally the Almuten of the Figure does not recognise accidental dignity whereas the Lord of the Geniture does.

Originally Posted by emily23

Dont get me wrong i love our astro forefathers but toooo funny!!!

archaeologists reading ancient manuscripts from the 21st Century may someday wonder what Wtf meant

[emily23]

Thanks Jupiter for the explanations, they DO make sense now, I was being facetious and, well, I did have a laugh!

Signed Sag Moon conjunct Jupiter

[emily23]

Originally Posted by Bunraku

I must admit that the archaic words and sentence structures are one of hurdles when learning traditional astrology.

All good educational fun.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by emily23

Thanks Jupiter for the explanations, they DO make sense now, I was being facetious
and, well, I did have a laugh!

Signed Sag Moon conjunct Jupiter

Great. Laughter is the best medicine

[vanila]

Interesting thread, I know almuten for me is Mercury, but if help me with LoG I will be thankful

[Oddity]

Probably Venus since it's in domicile and angular. The opposition to Saturn is a little worrying, but I don't think that would overrule.

Almuten is (usually) a straightforward calculation. LoG is more a matter of judgement, but strongly based on a planet having the most accidental as well as essential dignity.

[cspencer]

Originally Posted by happywhovian

Hello, a newbie here,

Would love to know how to tabulate or calculate the Lord of Geniture in our charts, and also would love to know how this affects the chart and the person.
Below is my chart, could you hep me calculate it? and explain how the ruler is obtained. Tq.

[IMG]

I believe the doctrine to be corrupted.

Why is the chart ruler for a mundane chart determined differently than a natal chart?

That's not making sense.

Determining the chart ruler for mundane charts is effectively a drill down to find the best situated star.

I reject Mars and Venus since they are combust.

I reject retrograde Jupiter that is not in sect.

I reject Moon for being above the earth in the 8th Place.

That leaves Saturn in joy in the 12th Place, Libra Mercury in the 10th Place and Sun in joy in the 9th Place.

Even though Mercury is in the 10th Place, the pivot is in the 11th Place. Saturn is cadent and in aversion to the ascendant.

Sun trines ascendant.

Sun is chart ruler (and Sun significates generosity).

Originally Posted by Oddity

Why did you resurrect a 10-year-old thread??

Maybe to save bandwidth and reduce global warming.

Originally Posted by happywhovian

Just another question, how Pluto in my chart is not considered?

Pluto does not emit radio waves.

Originally Posted by happywhovian

If Venus, does taking the easy route and escaping conflicts be part of the characteristics?

Venus is corrupted in this chart. Venus should be nocturnal, but isn't; should be in a feminine sign, but isn't; and should be in a feminine quarter, but isn't.

I would reject Venus as chart ruler for those reasons, and the fact that other Stars are better situated.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by cspencer

I believe the doctrine to be corrupted.

Why is the chart ruler for a mundane chart determined differently than a natal chart?

That's not making sense.

Determining the chart ruler for mundane charts is effectively a drill down to find the best situated star.

I reject Mars and Venus since they are combust.

I reject retrograde Jupiter that is not in sect.

I reject Moon for being above the earth in the 8th Place.

That leaves Saturn in joy in the 12th Place, Libra Mercury in the 10th Place and Sun in joy in the 9th Place.

Even though Mercury is in the 10th Place, the pivot is in the 11th Place. Saturn is cadent and in aversion to the ascendant.

Sun trines ascendant.

Sun is chart ruler (and Sun significates generosity).

Maybe to save bandwidth and reduce global warming.

Pluto does not emit radio waves.

Venus is corrupted in this chart. Venus should be nocturnal, but isn't; should be in a feminine sign, but isn't; and should be in a feminine quarter, but isn't.

I would reject Venus as chart ruler for those reasons, and the fact that other Stars are better situated.

This thread forms part of our Traditional Astrology forum
guidance notes to the Traditional Astrology forum state:

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
(Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras.
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction)
and exludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,)
non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids.
The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation and more on prediction.
Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.) http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80531

[cspencer]

Another method also used is the chart ruler being the Star ruling the sign the Moon enters after leaving its natal sign.

Maternus elaborates some on that method.

If natal Moon is in Aries, then Venus is the chart ruler, since the next sign is Taurus.

If natal Moon is in Gemini or Cancer, then the chart ruler is Mercury, since the Sun and Moon cannot be chart rulers and the next sign is Virgo.

[tsmall]

Originally Posted by cspencer

Another method also used is the chart ruler being the Star ruling the sign the Moon enters after leaving its natal sign.

Maternus elaborates some on that method.

If natal Moon is in Aries, then Venus is the chart ruler, since the next sign is Taurus.

If natal Moon is in Gemini or Cancer, then the chart ruler is Mercury, since the Sun and Moon cannot be chart rulers and the next sign is Virgo.

I believe that Maternus is the only astrologer whose writings have survived to put forth this method, even though he "claims" that it is both the easiest and most preferred by his contemporaries.

[Oddity]

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

In most older writings I do see people being described by planets - jovial, martial, etc., but not solar or lunar.

Which is kind of interesting.

[tsmall]

A very quick and not entirely complete exploration of the LoG.

http://www.medievalastrologyguide.co...d-almuten.html

[cspencer]

Originally Posted by tsmall

I believe that Maternus is the only astrologer whose writings have survived to put forth this method, even though he "claims" that it is both the easiest and most preferred by his contemporaries.

What does the chart ruler bring to the table?

I remember Dykes writing something about almutens/victors and saying that the whole process wasn't very satisfying.

What would the chart ruler tell us that we don't already know from the chart?

I just think there should be some utility to the methods and procedures used. It doesn't make sense to jump through hoops and get nothing out of it.

I would like to nail down the correct doctrine, and then see what, if anything it adds.

Originally Posted by Oddity

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

In most older writings I do see people being described by planets - jovial, martial, etc., but not solar or lunar.

Which is kind of interesting.

Sun and Moon are more like attributes, status for Sun and life for Moon.

The chart ruler method should be consistent for all charts. I just wish we knew which one actually is the real deal.

I never really spent much time with chart rulers, because too many chiefs and not enough indians.

I'm more into predictive astrology, so I'm not seeing much value in a chart ruler when we already have time lords and profected lords and such.

[tsmall]

Originally Posted by cspencer

What does the chart ruler bring to the table?

I remember Dykes writing something about almutens/victors and saying that the whole process wasn't very satisfying.

What would the chart ruler tell us that we don't already know from the chart?

I'm no expert but I believe the original purpose of ascertaining the ruler of the chart was for length of life calculations, and directions to and by the planet were useful in determining critical times.

Originally Posted by cspencer

I just think there should be some utility to the methods and procedures used. It doesn't make sense to jump through hoops and get nothing out of it.

Two thoughts. The first is that perhaps there are differing methods for finding the chart ruler because it evolved from the predominator to the hyleg to what later became either the LoG or the Almuten of the Figure. The secnd is that maybe it needed to evolve because primary directions seem to be a **** shoot.

Originally Posted by cspencer

I would like to nail down the correct doctrine, and then see what, if anything it adds.

No kidding. I suppose that in conjunction with temperament calculations it would give a clearer picture of what manner of person the native is. Bonatti spent quite a long chapter in his book on nativities just going over how to determine the quality of the soul. It would seem to be useful in predictive work, because to understand what the native will do it helps to understand what motivates him and how he will react to specific situations.

Originally Posted by Oddity

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

So many books, so little time to read them all. Though if it is anything like trying to figure out Masha'Allah's "hot potato" pushing disposition method...

[cspencer]

Originally Posted by tsmall

Two thoughts. The first is that perhaps there are differing methods for finding the chart ruler because it evolved from the predominator to the hyleg to what later became either the LoG or the Almuten of the Figure. The secnd is that maybe it needed to evolve because primary directions seem to be a **** shoot.

That's a good point. At least it gives me a starting place to look. I'm not much on PDs either.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.ar.../incontri.html

Originally Posted by tsmall

No kidding. I suppose that in conjunction with temperament calculations it would give a clearer picture of what manner of person the native is. Bonatti spent quite a long chapter in his book on nativities just going over how to determine the quality of the soul. It would seem to be useful in predictive work, because to understand what the native will do it helps to understand what motivates him and how he will react to specific situations.

Okay. See I find temperament to be worthy of my efforts. You spend a little time, but it's very satisfying and tells you something important.

[Oddity]

Finding the almuten is also useful if you do astrological magic, but that's slightly outside the scope of this forum.

I also disagree a little bit with Ry's article - the LoG, to the best of my knowledge, does not use the planetary day and hour in its calculations, but the almuten does so sometimes they end up being different planets, albeit I think both calculations are probably trying to express the same concept.

[theV]

Insightful thread. I didn't this.I want to know what is my LOG

[theV]

I done it with Astrofox website,and I found it confusing.The site calculated my ascedant in cancer while it should be in Leo like it was calculated by astro.com and solargold fire. I guess they got the time zone wrong.

[theV]

This is the result that I got,when I had to add one hour to ASTROFOX.COM software to get my birth chart with the Leo ascedant in it correct degree.