Astrological Parts. Known and Unknown...a project

Phoenix Venus said:

well ptv i'm a very curious person and that can lead to my being nosey.... but my intentions are to learn astro, not to pry... so if you say something is embarassing, i was thinking... i shouldn't even go look into that part of yours and just take your word for it... idk.. just trying to take the right/respectable course of action...​

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I meant it as that it could be construed to be self aggrandizing to state it as such.


...and Lord knows that I've been accused of enough of that already...

and the one for princess v! phew... i can see why it would fit in a spiritual context.. though... you would know better than i would if it fits for you, PV.

Phoenix Venus said:

okay lol i read it... yeah, it fits...​

and the one for princess v! phew... i can see why it would fit in a spiritual context.. though... you would know better than i would if it fits for you, PV.

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Yes I think it is quite fitting! It sums up my philosophy very well.

Phoenix Venus said:

Ahh.. and the parts of reincarnation.

so I think this list pretty much covers the parts that we've recently changed:

Asc + MErc - Pluto: transformation of others mind
Asc + Pluto - Merc: transformation of mind
Asc + Ven - Plu: Self Sacrifice (still in proposal phase)
Asc + Sat - Jup: Current life/reincarnation
Asc + Jup - Sat: past life/reincarnation

Of course, those titles aren't necessarily exact, change them to whatever you see as most fitting.

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To all: I updated the list according to these suggestions by Phoenix Venus. I posted them in the colour red as I feel there needs to be a little more consensus yet. Although I added Self Sacrifice in purple as it's one that I'm so convinced of that people will have to prove otherwise [IMHO...of course].
...and thank you for a fine job and all the effort you put into this, P.V.

As Phoenix Venus has given proposal and a decent demonstration for the two formulae concerning the Sun and Pluto in relationship to the ascendant as the Personal Point. I've added two proposed titles in red.
For the Part of Asc.+ Sun - Pluto, I have titled it the 'Part of Suppression of the Ego to the Spiritual.'
For the Part derived by Asc. + Pluto - Sun, I have titled it as the 'Part of Sublimation of the Ego to the Spiritual' [both titles are still somewhat tentative, depending upon criticism, further suggestions or ...?]
'

The link to the thread where-in Phoenix Venus is conducting this challenge:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67911

Greetings. I reviewed, reconsidered and retitled the two parts given as alternative names in the above post for the two Sun/Pluto combinations as Significators and Triggers to the Asc. as the Personal Point. What I had was very awkward and difficult to comprehend. I hope these two revised titles are more appropriate and fitting... I think so.

...but, that is imho.... of course....

I'm open to other suggestions or critique.

Hmm.. ill have to think more on this but just for now, i looked up "sublimation"and i found it interesting in the wiki it said the "reverse process" of sublimation is "deposition"

Phoenix Venus said:

Hmm.. ill have to think more on this but just for now, i looked up "sublimation"and i found it interesting in the wiki it said the "reverse process" of sublimation is "deposition"

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wiktionary: "Deposition (politics), the removal of a person of authority from political power.."

I like that even better.

At first I was unsure about sublimation, as I thought that it meant more towards the meaning of acquising...

Merriam Webster: "Sublimation (psychology) : to express a desire or feeling by changing it into a form that is socially acceptable."

...and realized... yeah, that's what I was searching for...only, rather, in a 'spiritually acceptable" sense.

So, I'll change 'suppression' to 'deposition'.

Nicely done!

I am adding the reversed formula for the Hermetic Lot of Eros [Asc. + Pt of Soul/Spirit - Venus] to the list as titled [suggested by Phoenix Venus] the Lot of Psyche.
I will add it in the colour red pending more examined proofs.

Hi, just to announce that I have given tentative alternate titles for the Part of Basis, both the nocturnal as well as the diurnal formulas and for the Part of Fortune... and I also wrote in the listing as to what gave cause for the reason for these reevaluations and as to what led to the new suggested titles, as proposals for possible renaming, or as alternative names, of these particular Parts, presently.
One can also read the posts in the thread that Phoenix Venus has initiated on the Part of Basis here in the Degree Symbolism sub-forum to get a more thorough explanation or understanding.

Hey.

I just came across a post from Dr. Farr in another thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71669

where he gives the formula "as + mercury - pof" as the part of "Realization of Needs & Desires"

I didn't see it on the list here, but it is the reverse to the hermetic lot of necessity, so it might be one to take note of. Actually, it might be a good idea to start looking into the reverse to all of those "major" lots.

Interestingly, mine personally is at 18.01 pisces, right on the cusp so it might help to rectify my birth time if i can figure this one out. I'm uncertain at this point though which one symbol fits more or if the title is appropriate. Will take some more pondering. But it might be something to add to the list.

Yeshua's is 14 scorpio "telephone linemen at work installing new connections. the need to establish new channels of communication" hmmmmmmmmmm

Usa's part is 21 sag.. "a child and a dog wearing borrowed eyeglasses. the use of imagination and make believe in anticipating higher levels of development."

Phoenix Venus said:

Hey.

I just came across a post from Dr. Farr in another thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71669

where he gives the formula "as + mercury - pof" as the part of "Realization of Needs & Desires"

I didn't see it on the list here, but it is the reverse to the hermetic lot of necessity, so it might be one to take note of. Actually, it might be a good idea to start looking into the reverse to all of those "major" lots.

Interestingly, mine personally is at 18.01 pisces, right on the cusp so it might help to rectify my birth time if i can figure this one out. I'm uncertain at this point though which one symbol fits more or if the title is appropriate. Will take some more pondering. But it might be something to add to the list.

Yeshua's is 14 scorpio "telephone linemen at work installing new connections. the need to establish new channels of communication" hmmmmmmmmmm

Usa's part is 21 sag.. "a child and a dog wearing borrowed eyeglasses. the use of imagination and make believe in anticipating higher levels of development."

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I've been aware of the fact that there is a incomplete pattern to the Hermetic Lots. Someone figured out Asc. + Part of Fortune - Neptune as being a Part of Imprisonment, and I found to my satisfaction, and am completely convinced that it does indicate "that" which one is "Imprisoned' from, and has shown itself to be symbolically that which one will not be able to approach, embrace...etc.

The seven Hermetic Lots being by legend the seven Astrological Parts/Lots that the mysterious Hermes choose to single out from all the rest, the titles given those lots and what I see in my own natal set of seven and of the set of seven for that natal chart of the Man from Naz.[that I'm covinced is produced from data from the right year, day and time and close enough on the locale to be accurate enough to be a guide and guage] have all demonstrated, without exception, that the Seven Hermetic Lots are deserved of V.I.P. as both status and consideration in all matters of ones own natal astrology. Hermes, the man alleged by some to have designed the Great Pyramid and had something to do with it's construction too. Some believe that Hermes and Melchizedek to have been one and the same person...or that He may have also been Enoch, then again possibly even all 3 of those men. They would have been the last Parts/Lots I would be attempting to define for those reasons alone...that they haven't been addressed, publicly at least, as yet as to whether they are actually produced from these formulae [although we both know that the odds of these formulae not producing anything are just about as slim as odds can get.]
I kind of always thought that what those other formulae might produce had be best saved until a time when I had years of experience instead of days and weeks, or even months, spent studying Parts & Lots

I'm surprised to hear of what Dr. Farr has there. I would've thought that He would have been considerate enough to mention it to this thread. ...afterall, He has been aware of this thread and thi Astrological Parts List since it's inception...makes me wonder if Dr. Farr hasn't just gone and posted the Hermetic Lot of Necessity and got the formula reversed or confused with something altogether else.Most likely, Dr. Farr continues to believe in the idea that one should reverse the formula for births depending on whether one was born during the night or during the day. As in consideration of his intelligence I figure that he either doesn't have an interest in the Sabian Symbols and thus hasn't been following these threads where-in we've demonstrated to the contrary over and over again as not once has the 'dirunal/nocturnal' camp of belief been given anything to support that view.

...and, gee, I don't know P.V., "Realization of Needs and Desires" sounds to me to be the same concept as ''Necessity'' but just worded differently. So, with that in mind, I'm willing to bet that Dr.Farr was likely reversing the formula for a nocturnal birth...{and that does give an impetus to try tackle that formula and discover its true meaning.}

But, I do agree with you that all this should be addressed to in the Parts List in post #1, and, I did just add the rest that were missing from the list that utilize either the Part of Fortune or the Part of Soul/Spirit as the 'Significator' and one of the Planets as the 'trigger' and registered them as solely, "unkown".

...it's you're proposal and thus your call , but If I decide to sit this one out then you'll at least know what for.
.
You did a pretty good job of tackling the unknown that is the reverse formula of that for the Hermetic Lot of Eros some weeks ago, I'm not going to say what you may or may not be capable of as of yet. You've done no worse than I have on any of the topics we've addressed and scored the goal on a few others that I'll galdly and happily take the assist for.
But these, you are preposing, are the reverse formulae of those for which are of a certain high held esteem, being that of seven in number, which were, obviously deemed to be rather special by Hermes. The last thing I would want to do is interpret them wrongly, better, ere I just left them be until I felt 100% confident that I totally understood the precepts and the concept of using two "V.I.P. Parts", the Part of Spirit/Soul and the Part of Fortune, and which are Hermetic Lots themselves, as either the 'Significator' and, or, the "Trigger'.

I cleaned up the list in that for those Parts whereas the "Significator is the Sun or the Moon, I put the forumlae in orange coloured text so as to distinguish it better from the Part titles and the commentary>

While I was musing over one of the foumla listed as an unknown, that is Asc. + Venus - Part of Fortune, I had an idea that it may be a 'Part of Compassion'.
I did add that suggested title in red even though I've done no research on this as yet. Just so the idea doesn't get lost in my mind somewhere or buried in one of the umpteen notebooks I have floating about the apt.

I hope to get a chance to tackle it soon, but anyone that wants to do any research of their own, please let me know what you think.
ptv

...it's like the theme music for the 'Twilight Zone' should be playing in the background.

I did get to testing out the formula Asc. + Venus - Part of Fortune on the chart I've submitted and have been promoting for consideration as to being the actual natal chart for Yeshu'a/Jesus of Naz. That was as far as I could get as it calculates to be in the 20th degree of Virgo, which happens to be my brothers natal Asc. {and my brothers natal M.C. is in the 19th of Gemini and conj. the placement of Mars on the Yeshu'a/Jesus natal chart}. It also happens to be the 20th of Virgo that the progressed natal chart of my good friend, and fellow Yogi, Suryakant has presently for his progressed Asc. It is also the degree of the Zodiac that my Part of Sudden Advancement, {aka Part of Nemesis or Hermetic Lot of Nemesis} is.
I can't say from the little research that I have done, so far, that it is indeed a Part of Compassion or enough use and studying to suggest any other possible title at all, yet.
...but here's the Sabian Symbol for the 20th degree of Virgo: [ibid.]

"A CARAVAN OF CARS HEADED TO THE WEST COAST.

KEYNOTE: The need of cooperative effort in reaching any 'New World' of experience.

It is difficult to know, from the original formulation of the clairvoyant's vision, the type of caravan of cars that was visualized; what seems to be clearly implied is a process in which a group of persons are journeying together — thus linking their consciousnesses and energies (the 'car' symbol) — in order to safely reach the goal of destiny. Here there is no longer any sense of competition, but an ordered and structured endeavor.

At this last stage of the five-fold sequence the past is entirely left behind; men cooperate in the great 'adventure in consciousness' in a TOTALIZATION OF PURPOSE AND EFFORT."

I'll keep you all updated as best as I will be able to.
ptv

Well the title "Compassion" immediately reminds me of the symbol taurus 10 which is "the compassionate linking of all men"...so maybe Rudyar's summation of that symbol could give some clues.... "This symbol reveals the feeling of human cooperation at the stage of pure altruism and service to the social Whole. On that foundation of Christ love (agape, or true companionship), man can reach a still higher level of experience made possible by the refinement of the substance of his being, his consciousness and his will. "

So when I read the symbol for virgo 20, this line struck "what seems to be clearly implied is a process in which a group of persons are journeying together — thus linking their consciousnesses and energies (the "car" symbol) — in order to safely reach the goal of destiny. "

so..... there is a consistency there. compassion could fit. It also make sense with mine, which is pisces 8 (conjunct my pos)

By contrast, here is the symbol for Yeshua's reverse part which is AS + POF - Venus

7.06 Scorpio

"A CALM LAKE BATHED IN MOONLIGHT.
KEYNOTE: A quiet openness to higher inspiration.
One could stress the romantic suggestions such an image evokes, but even at the level of a love relationship what is implied is a surrender of two personal egos to the inspiration of transcendent feelings which are essentially impersonal. Love expresses itself through the lovers, for real Love is a cosmic undifferentiated principle or power which simply focuses itself within the "souls" of human beings who reflect its light. The same is true of the mystic's love for God. Man strives hard to achieve great things through daring adventures, but a moment comes when all that really matters is to present a calm mind upon which a supernal light may be reflected.
This is the third stage of the forty-fourth five-fold sequence. It tells us that beyond all efforts lays the need for peace and the readiness to accept the illumination from above. The Keyword is QUIESCENCE. "

so... i could almost see it as.... Love from the source flows through the person and into others.... A loving inspiration turned to others as compassion... as with many of the parts when compared to their reverse, there seems to be the dynamic between what is flowing towards the person (what outer influences the person draws from/taps into) and what flows from the person to others.

Phoenix Venus said:

Well the title "Compassion" immediately reminds me of the symbol taurus 10 which is "the compassionate linking of all men"...so maybe Rudyar's summation of that symbol could give some clues.... "This symbol reveals the feeling of human cooperation at the stage of pure altruism and service to the social Whole. On that foundation of Christ love (agape, or true companionship), man can reach a still higher level of experience made possible by the refinement of the substance of his being, his consciousness and his will. "

So when I read the symbol for virgo 20, this line struck "what seems to be clearly implied is a process in which a group of persons are journeying together — thus linking their consciousnesses and energies (the "car" symbol) — in order to safely reach the goal of destiny. "

so..... there is a consistency there. compassion could fit. It also make sense with mine, which is pisces 8 (conjunct my pos)

By contrast, here is the symbol for Yeshua's reverse part which is AS + POF - Venus

7.06 Scorpio

"A CALM LAKE BATHED IN MOONLIGHT.
KEYNOTE: A quiet openness to higher inspiration.
One could stress the romantic suggestions such an image evokes, but even at the level of a love relationship what is implied is a surrender of two personal egos to the inspiration of transcendent feelings which are essentially impersonal. Love expresses itself through the lovers, for real Love is a cosmic undifferentiated principle or power which simply focuses itself within the "souls" of human beings who reflect its light. The same is true of the mystic's love for God. Man strives hard to achieve great things through daring adventures, but a moment comes when all that really matters is to present a calm mind upon which a supernal light may be reflected.
This is the third stage of the forty-fourth five-fold sequence. It tells us that beyond all efforts lays the need for peace and the readiness to accept the illumination from above. The Keyword is QUIESCENCE. "

so... i could almost see it as.... Love from the source flows through the person and into others.... A loving inspiration turned to others as compassion... as with many of the parts when compared to their reverse, there seems to be the dynamic between what is flowing towards the person (what outer influences the person draws from/taps into) and what flows from the person to others.

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As for using Venus and the PoF, both formulae are unknowns. So you feel/think that they both have to do with compassion?

I'm not as inclined to the use of the word, compassion, as I was at first.
I'm awaiting more results...hopefully we'll get some additional contributions from others as well.

Nice to hear from you P.V. and to see you participating, once again.

I hope all is well.

Phoenix Venus said:

Nice to be back.

Well, seeing as how His chart is like a template, if we look at the symbol for virgo 20 and ask "In what way has Yeshua linked human consiousness in order to reach the goal of destiny?" we could be led toward the appropriate part title.

Compassion would be an answer to that question, so it is a possible theme for both parts... (remembering that polarizing parts will likely deal with two sides of the same coin...)

But... let's look at this from all angles. We both have parts conjuncting Yeshua's As + Ven - POF and that is one major help in deciphering it's meaning. You have nemesis conjunct this part of Yeshua's.... what do you think Yeshua embodies that could be considered a nemesis/sudden advancement for you?

My part of astrology is virgo 20 and though I don't think astrology has altered my sense of compassion, it has been an outlet for relating with others in a more compassionate way.

After spending some time contemplating it, i think it's possible that venus-pof might be about cooperative efforts; how we blend in with others to arrive at a mutual goal, whereas the reverse pof-venus could be about seperation from others, how we set ourselves apart to reach our purpose. It seems to relate to what we give of ourselves to humanity vrs. what we take of humanity.

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It wasn't until about two years ago, when I first heard of the "Hermetic Lots" that I heard of the Lot of Nemesis. The "Young Astrologer", Chris Brennan, had it listed as a Lot of Nemesis and I informed Him that I knew it by another name and that the title I knew it by comes on as being Beneficent and not Malevolent sounding as 'Nemesis".{He was surprised and somewhat puzzled by my message and I was going to continue a correspondence with him but he dropped me from his 'Friend' list at facebook as I'm apparently a 'Known Threat" to "Traditional Astrologers" and as Chris is a recent, and a member of the last graduating class, of Keplar Astrological College [it went under or lost accreditation...something as like that.] He was obviously told to do so even though I hadn't given Him cause to and in fact had helped him with a problem he had solicited advice for as to a presentation/speech he was scheduled to soon give. He has announced upon his graduation from Keplar, which caught the attention of national news as it was the last graduating class of Keplar, that He was some sort of harbinger of a new generation of Astrologers, a very fresh and exciting approach, and then proceeded to produce the same old 'Trad. Astrology". Young Astrologers, ...huh? I didn't start that young but I do know enough to not make promises I don't know I can deliver on or not, and also, to not go around trash talking the senior members of the guild/craft that I'm hoping to be accepted into and stay employed in. ...although I suspect it may have been those very senior Traditional Astrologer that encouraged him to do so... so as to 'bring in some new "customers", ...so to speak.}.

I thought about it and wondered if there was in fact a nocturnal formula claimed as to exist and being a 'Trad.' Astrologer if he wasn't referring to a reverse formula and He informed me that He wasn't and that it is the same formula given for the Part of Sudden Advance [although, I can't remember if he said to reverse it for nocturnal births... doesn't matter, to me anyways, as i don't believe in different formulae for day and nights and neither does Clarisse, my trusty Clairvoyant friend, according to what see saw in her minds eye.] Then I gave it some more thought.
But first let me present the part of Sudden Advance, aka Hermetic Lot of Nemesis [Asc. + Part of Fortune - Saturn] from that chart I've been calling "A Template of Understanding", i.e the proposed natal chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a @ 10* 34', that is the 11th degree of Gemini: [ibid.]

"NEWLY OPENED LANDS OFFER THE PIONEER NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR EXPERIENCE.

KEYNOTE: The power and joy of new beginnings.

These 'newly opened lands' can refer to any as yet unexperienced field of potential activity at any level — material, emotional, mental or supermental. We are now dealing with the third level of experience, at which individuality — or at least the ego character — operates more definitely. While in the preceding phases much was said concerning the powers of the mind, this mind was essentially based on the collective patterns of a culture and a society. Now, at this third level, we find the human being essentially engaged in his personal and particular struggle for full and effective individualization. And the initial realization he has to experience is that he has reached a potentially virgin field of consciousness and activity. He is facing the unfamiliar. Anything could happen.

This is the first stage of the fifteenth five-fold sequence of symbols. Having conquered, at least to some extent, the collective and material energies of nature and society, man has become relatively "separate" from the past. He faces the future. Every step ahead should show him RISING TO THE OCCASION."

...and YES! Isn't that just sooo perfect, of all the 360 that might have been the symbol as to what Action, emotional response or mental approach [the three manners of applying a Sabian Symbol to a Part or chart axis point. See my recent thread on applying Sabian Symbology to Astrological parts in the Degree Symbolism forum] would result in, or provide, Yeshu'a ben David with a 'Big Leg up' the ladder to his goal? To those of you that have read Edgar Cayce's account of the 'Lost Years" of Jesus/Yeshu'a and, or, "The Aquarian Gospel" by Levi or have seen the documentary/movie, "The Lost Years" that was made in the 60's or early '70's [it used to, and might yet still, run for a few days every year around Easter on channel 2 in the San Francisco Bay Area]. As Cayce stated that the man from Naz. had to make those journeys to Egypt, Persia, India etc. in order to become fully trained and adept at those skills and knowledge He both demonstrated and extolled, apart from what he may have got directly in any sort of 'Divine communique'.

Cayce even named the names of His teachers in those lands. {I read the Aquarian Gospel many years ago and for a time believed that it too was a true and ernest account of those years but have since had to dismiss it because I only more recently became aware that in the forward [I think it was] the author states that Adam and Eve were of a time only some 5 or 10 thousand years ago..or something as screwy as that...and declares that info comes from the same source as the rest of the books material. I feel the author was probably a very sincere and good person that wanted to make a positive contribution aqs to promoting alternative takes on the 'Jesus Story' and meant well, possibly even had some legitimate source material but ultimately did more harm than good.}.

If not for those travels to those other lands..and the trip to Egypt which was a considerable distance in those times, had to be made as for the initiation in the Great Pyramid that Jesus/Yeshu'a had to undergo and complete according to Edgar. Please remember that Sigmund Freud, in his book "Moses and Monotheism", wrote that the Hebrews are the remnants of the ancient "Aton" belief system of Egypt. and Cayce said that it was Melchizedek that was responsible for the Essenes' coming into existence as a sect of Judaism and the number of legends and, or, occult/esoteric accountings', that claim, that Hermes designed and, some say helped construct, the Great Pyramid and that He also was known as Enoch and, or Melchizedek, to the Hebrews and also that Cayce said that both Enoch and Melchizedek were former incarnations of the soul Amilius that eventually became, in His last and final incarnation, born as Yeshu'a ben David, the Man from Nazareth. If Freud was correct and also Edgar then Melchizedek surely knew everything about the Pyramids and all their so called 'secrets' as the Essenes had been deliberately isolated from the other Judaic sects for over 800 years when Jesus was born [avoiding enslavement by the Babylonians apparently or were somehow overlooked or ignored by them.]

So it definitely was, in my estimation, the most valuable {even though it's a degree of the Zodiac identified by Rudhyar as being by Sabian Symbol a degree of the "Third Level", an "Individual/Mental level} action that Yeshu'a/Jesus could have possibly done, and did do, to achieve his destiny, to complete his dharma as the man born to Miriam/Mary and Yosef/Joseph of the Essenes'. But it was also a monumental task, expedition and effort to travel to so many lands and apply himself to the study, practice and mastery of what He was taught by the different teachers in those lands for what must have seemed to be 18 very long and sometimes lonely years.

Then, in consideration of what the Sabian Symbol of my own Part of Sudden Advancement in the 20th of Virgo is declaring, [ibid.] "SCENE TWELVE: EDUCATION (Virgo 16° to Virgo 30°): FIRST LEVEL: ACTIONAL. Virgo 20* ..."a TOTALIZATION OF PURPOSE AND EFFORT." and the fact that I never did apply myself to my schooling as well as I could have. That I certainly but very rarely, if truly ever at all, did give 100% of myself to any endeavor requiring some action on my part as to concerning 'Education' Or if one interprets the symbolism as more to what the 'letter' of the text in which Rudhyar states: [ibid.]

"...what seems to be clearly implied is a process in which a group of persons are journeying together — thus linking their consciousnesses and energies (the 'car' symbol) — in order to safely reach the goal of destiny. Here there is no longer any sense of competition, but an ordered and structured endeavor.
At this last stage...the past is entirely left behind; men cooperate in the great 'adventure in consciousness' in a TOTALIZATION OF PURPOSE AND EFFORT",

...then it is all the more of an effort as to be as near as monumental a task as that which Yeshu'a/Jesus himself found himself challenged with as any I've have and have yet to see in anyone elses chart, and to be totally honest and sincere, I'm presently considering my own to possibly be closer to the amount of the challenge to the task he faced than anyone elses I've seen to date. ...as most will nod their heads in agreement that have observed my writing here at this forum the last five years and...of which I haven't any doubt... my closest and most intimate friends and family would surely swear to be a fact, knowing how many years prior to that I endured all sorts of "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" and 'misfortune' that either prepared me for, or were meant somehow to dissuade me from any consideration in the future to get involved with this task that proceeded all the "efforts" consciously applied directly in purpose, these last 13 years when in June of 2001 I thought that I might like to make it a retirement 'Hobby', or 'Pastime', to noodle around with a couple of theories I had developed about what might have possibly been indicative of the birth of "The Nazz" ... that is to say, what the Magi knew and, or, saw.
For as soon as I had the slightest notion that I actually had a possible viable and good lead, the effort I was expending was far more than what I had initially anticipated...and it's at least five fold more than that presently.

So, what am I getting at?

That I came to a realization that by one possible definition of '"Nemesis", i.e.
"a formidable opponent" {Merriam Webster Dictionary} that such challenges to as such monumental tasks could certainly be said to be "Formidable Opponents" in their own right...and as yet, when accomplished, were also the means of a"'Sudden Advancement" of the most advantageous sort.

It is both a part of Sudden Advancement and Nemesis, in my most humble, but much experienced, opinion... which truly can only be determined as to which title most befitted ones own personal astrology at the end of their life. If they succeeded in accomplishing it, it would be certainly and undoubtedly [to me, anyways, as I'm convinced of this] a "Part of Sudden Advancement".
...and if that individual ignored the call or attempted and didn't succeed, then it could only be said to have been that persons "Nemesis".

Now you've got me thinking and I might have to go on a bit of a tangent here.....

I've been thinking a bit about the hermetic "planetary" lots and the other formulas that relate..... Now, I admit, though I have found the parts to be extremely accurate, I really haven't read up on them much at all. I wonder what Bonatti would have made of the formulas utilizing the outer planets. There's an obvious pattern developing.

We've got:

AS + POF - Merc = lot of mercury/ necessity
AS + Venus - POS = lot of venus/ eros
As + POF - Mars = lot of mars / courage
AS + Jup - POS = lot of jupiter / victory
AS + POF - Saturn = lot of saturn /nemesis-sudden advancement

Now, the immediate logical conclusion would be that you follow this pattern with the 3 outers to arrive at the "Lots" of each planet... so that you get:

AS + URA - POS as the lot of uranus,
AS + POF - NEP for neptune and
AS + PLUTO - POS for pluto..... HOWEVER.....

We might want to ask "why those specific formulas?" and it might lead us to the conclusion that it has something to do with the traditionalist viewpoint of benefic and maelific planets. (at this point i admit i'm speculating as i have not read up on the hermetic lots and how these formulae were ascertained...)

Notice the two benefics Venus and Jupiter are involved with POS as the trigger and the two maelifics Saturn and Mars are triggering the POF. It sort of flows with what we know of negative/positive attributes of a planet and of the dynamic between the part of fortune (Active) and part of soul (receptive)

Also consider that the formula As +POF -Nep (which would follow the linear transgression of the pattern) is "imprisonment" and it doesn't quite flow with the others as far as what a formula would represent if it encompassed the "lot" of that "planet" (at least, in my humble opinion.. the planetary lots seem to encompass what one is equipped with to help accomplish their goals; what attributes to aspire towards.. the part of imprisonment seems contrary to that...)

So maybe a more appropriate pattern would be to match the higher octave planetary formulas to their lower octave counterparts.... to arrive at the "lot" of those planets...

and that would be...

As + POF - URA
AS + NEP - POS
AS + POF - PLUTO

Now... at this point... this is just an idea i am throwing out there. There are so many of these parts utilizing POF and POS that it might be a good "jumping off" point. Let me know what you think of my theory. In the mean time I will look up these three parts for Yeshua and see what I come up with.