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  #1  
Unread 05-22-2012, 08:45 PM
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Elansome Elansome is offline
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Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Hi there!
I am having a terrible dilamma with my pregnancy at the moment. I was trying to conceive a baby for a long time. This was my 3rd try and I finally got pregnant! I was over the moon until they told me that it is triplets! They said it is high risk to carry them all and i need to reduce one of them. That procedure has its own risks as well. I amy lose them all. So i made a chart and asked astrology if i should go with it. Any comments might save the lifeof my babies please help.

I could not attach a map because i am using an ipad. The time I asked this quesion is 22 may 2012 Birmigham England 20:22 pm

Ascendant is 25 scorpio which is appropriate as i only have a few weeks left to decide. Lord of the first house, Mars is on the 9th and in Virgo which makes sense because Virgo related to the hospitals and 9th house is related to the University hospitals and surgeries. Virgo is also suits my being so anxious. Mars also the lord of the 5 and this I think shows that I need an medical interference. The 5th house also ruled my venus in the 7th house will be conjoined soon by Moon very soon and they will be having perfect their nice angle to the Saturn (longevity) The only problem is Mars associated with abortions and in this case reductions, is going to be trine with Jupiter after frustrated with venus moon with a square. I think jupiter is in a good house but conjunct with the worst fixed star.
Any comments?

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Unread 05-24-2012, 04:53 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Hi Mama,

Firstly, my congratulations to you and Dad after your struggles. So beautiful to have your dream come true. Here is your chart posted below:



I cannot answer this question and to be honest, I doubt you will find any astrologer finding this easy - for many and obvious reasons.

I hope all will be delivered with a beautiful outcome. I grew up with triplets in high-school. They were just a joy to know. I am of the belief that its not our place to decide who gets to live and who doesn't but when it comes to the mother's health, that takes precedence. In the end, what is meant to be will occur, no matter what we do. I wish you the absolute best. Bless you and your family. x
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  #3  
Unread 05-24-2012, 05:51 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

SagiCap, thank you so much for your message and uploading the chart.

It is not easy decision i have to tell. The chance of all the embryos working was %5. And I am constantly crying since I have learn that. Either i will try to carry them all and lose them on the way or cause them to be disabled. They could be blind, or end up with a disability due to the brain damage. And I am thinking isn't my heart ache in deep sorrow when I see that I cause them to be disabled. How can the enjoy life living with a machine. Yes not all the triplets and up in prematurity but %80 does! I am a little short women and I know I would have serious problems.

Since I have to make this decision I die every day a little. If i go for this procedure there is a possiblitiy that I can lose them all about %5-9 but I can give the other two a much healtier life.
All I am hoping at the moment that one of them will give up before the week 10 and I dont have to go for the operation.
Believe me if I had more chance of carrying them all to the full term, I would never do iit!
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Unread 05-24-2012, 06:02 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

-the triplets = 5th whole sign house = Pisces = Jupiter
-lord of the 6th house from the 5th (house of health problems for the triplets) = Leo = Sun
-Sun is conjunct the South Node: negative health indications for the triplets (as a group)
-Jupiter is in a pitted degree of Taurus (blocked degree, negative indication)
-lord of their house of health, the Sun, flows away from their over-all significator, Jupiter = further - testimony

All testimonies for them as a group of 3, are negative; you might wish to draw your conclusions re to reducing to 2, from these indications.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 08:15 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Thank you so much Dr. Far. You give me hope that I can save the two of them.
I appreciate so much all your input and astrology always have the right answer.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

I just want to put this chart in the thread. The above chart is for the 23rd but, it appears the question was asked on the 22nd...? The OP can clarify if neccessary.

And, I have to agree with SagiCap regarding it is not an astrologers place to decide life and death. Yet, I sincerely empathize with your dilemma and, I feel, that somwhow, some clarity about this situation will come to you. In your heart, after the emotional impact f this matter subsides somewhat, you will hear that small guiding inner voice that will lead you to take the right action.

I did ponder this chart for some time and had a very difficult time trying to answer it. I can only imagine your own quandry in light of that.

I am curious, though. Why all the dire predictions from the doctors? I mean, many people have had triplets (and more!) and were all fine. Is there some other complication that would move them to fill you with such fear?
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Last edited by Anachiel; 05-24-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

duplicate post
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Last edited by Anachiel; 05-24-2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason: duplicate post
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Unread 05-24-2012, 01:45 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Anachiel thanks for your message and the chart. It is funny because we now have 4 different charts. In my version which I drew from astro.com Moon and Venus in the 7th house.

May be this is a sign to say that everybody has different take in this and there is no one right answer. Everyday I woke up with the same constant heart ache. I just instinctly know that if I carry on having them all I would hurt them not giving them enough space to grow to nurture. I am 7 and more week now and my belly already look like 15 weeks pregnant I started to feel I am down with lack of energy. If I know for sure that i can carry them all for 36 weeks I will carry on. We sometimes see triplets around but they are the lucky ones and probably makes 6% of the whole triplets and most of them still have respiratory problem and spend a long time in the hospital when they were born. This was not what I had in my mind when I wanted to be a parent. I wanted them so much but I dont want to hurt any soul. I know how ironic I sound.
Astrology doesnt make the decision for you but it can show you the way that what will likely happen as in the same way that the doctors who has seen a lot more than we do.

I am praying with all my heart that God will mercy me and take one of them from me now without me needing to do anything. Please keep me in your prayers.
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  #9  
Unread 05-24-2012, 03:55 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

[QUOTE=
Elansome;........

I just instinctly know that if I carry on having them all I would hurt them not giving them enough space to grow to nurture. I am 7 and more week now and my belly already look like 15 weeks pregnant I started to feel I am down with lack of energy. If I know for sure that i can carry them all for 36 weeks I will carry on. We sometimes see triplets around but they are the lucky ones and probably makes 6% of the whole triplets and most of them still have respiratory problem and spend a long time in the hospital when they were born......

I am praying with all my heart that God will mercy me and take one of them from me now without me needing to do anything. Please keep me in your prayers.
[/QUOTE]

Dear Elansome,

I was a nurse and helped with the delivery of triplets back in the 1980's. They were all boys and boys sometimes struggle, but they were healthy and happy and survived their delivery at 36wks.
The mother needed assistance before the babies were born and she got alot!! of help from the community, before and after the delivery.
I really do respect your intuition about this pregnancy, but just remember, you are in good hands and you will make the right decision.

PS. She named the boys, Clive, Clifford and Clinton.
PPS. Sorry, that i didn't mention anything about your question astrologically, i don't feel i know enough yet to qualify an answer. Good luck.

Last edited by Inline; 05-24-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 05-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Thanks for your encouraging words Inline. Was she a tall lady? I am below the 165cm. Which makes me even more high risk pregnant.
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Unread 05-25-2012, 04:54 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

I can only sense your pain and none of us can imagine what you are going through exactly, so I tried to search and found a thread on the selective reduction decisions with mothers who've done this with no complications: http://community.babycenter.com/post...iplets_to_twin
http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=73112
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  #12  
Unread 05-27-2012, 09:37 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Hi Elansome

I am sorry to hear of your dilemma. This is an exceptionally serious matter and I sympathise with you for having to make this impossible decision.

Should you reduce the triplets? Unfortunately horary can never tell you what you should or shouldn't do, it can only explain the consequences of the actions as well as cast light upon the matter in greater detail so that you are better informed to make your decision.

With this in mind I'm looking to the chart to see if there is indeed danger either to yourself or to the triplets.

It makes sense to me to deal with the triplets as individuals, and so I've chosen to assign them the triplicity lords of the 5th, and see if each or any of them are afflicted, especially if afflicted by another, as this would be strong testimony to the truth of the doctors' words regarding there being a high risk.

So the 5th house has Aries on the cusp and so the triplicity lords are Sun, Jupiter and Saturn.
We can see straight away that saturn is okay. The Sun is weak but is also okay.
However Jupiter is afflicted. It is combust the Sun and the Sun is one of our significators for one of the triplets. So it seems likely that one of the triplets is overpowering the other, it is draining/suffocating/smothering the other.

In addition, we have Mercury performing a translation of light from Jupiter to the Sun. Normally we say that planets combust the sun are not strong enough to transfer light, however Mercury will perfect in its own sign and therefore also receive the sun. So it seems likely that Mercury is prominent. Mercury of course rules the 6th from the 5th and therefore indicates ill health of the triplets, it is also the lord of the radical 8th house of death.

Combustion is one of the oldest significations of death, and in addition we have the lord of death applying to combustion from our significator of one of our triplets. In addition, the Moon, conveyor of all effluence in a chart, is applying directly to Lord 6, venus, which is retrograde and out of dignity. This is highly suggestive that your own health is being affected by the carrying of the triplets.Once again we have Mercury disposing of the matter which we've already examined.

Another telling testimony is that the South Node, which is malefic due to its desire to bring about reduction, is conjunct the Sun, our signifier for the over bearing triplet.

So all in all I think the horary is very clear that there is very little chance of the triplets being brought to term all healthy. The horary seems quite clear that one of the triplets is causing issues and harm to the others as well as making you yourself sick and ill. This may be suggestive of the wisdom to reduce, but ultimately this is a decision that you alone will have to make.

This may not help you make your decision but it should at least give you more clarity on the situation.

I am reminded of a person I know who herself was a twin. Her mother was an alcoholic though and it became evident that she was incapable of stopping during pregnancy and so in the final months it became highly likely that the twins would suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome. Indeed just after she gave birth it became clear that one of the twins was extremely weak and affected, however the other was like any normal healthy baby. In the days following birth, the weaker twin died having apparently absorbed all of the alcohol poisoning. A psychic many years later who did not know this woman once told her that she was a twin, and that her other twin had chosen to come into the world as a sacrifice for this woman, chose to be conceived so as to shield its twin from harm. That twin chose to save his sister so that she could live a healthy and full life.

Last edited by Paul_; 05-27-2012 at 09:43 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 05-27-2012, 09:43 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Paul:
Excellent delineation!!
Use of triplicity lords in horary is one of the oldtime techniques of the alternative horary approach I follow (what I call "Ankara horary" and which is more correctly known, historically, as Ottoman astrology) and was mentioned as late as the time of Guido Bonatti (13th century). Your application of judgement using the triplicty lords, is admirable!
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Unread 05-27-2012, 10:11 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Thanks Paul that was amazing technique and moving real story. I have not learned Horary yet. thank you for sharing your knowledge to benefit the forum.

Welcome to the community! (just saw your detail as Junior but surely you are not). Looking forward to read your post more. I hope you feel warm and being welcomed here
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Unread 05-27-2012, 10:38 AM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Paul:
Excellent delineation!!
Use of triplicity lords in horary is one of the oldtime techniques of the alternative horary approach I follow (what I call "Ankara horary" and which is more correctly known, historically, as Ottoman astrology) and was mentioned as late as the time of Guido Bonatti (13th century). Your application of judgement using the triplicty lords, is admirable!
Thanks Dr Farr

Bonatti is probably an author of astrology that I most adhere to. I prefer his thinking processes behind most of his horary. I have found too often that the triplicity lords are far too important and reveal far too much to be ignored. Particularly in questions such as these or in 'multiple choice' questions either.
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Unread 05-27-2012, 08:05 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
I can only sense your pain and none of us can imagine what you are going through exactly, so I tried to search and found a thread on the selective reduction decisions with mothers who've done this with no complications: http://community.babycenter.com/post...iplets_to_twin
http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=73112
Thank you SagiCap! I sense that you have a beautiful heart, feel for others, have emphaty. I have read everything online about this, assessing my situation i have to go through for the operation. Hope God will spare my other two for me. I dont wish this situation to anybody, it is so hard. I love soooo much all my children born, unborn and those who will never be born.....
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Unread 05-27-2012, 08:21 PM
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Re: Should I reduce triplets into twins?

Paul,
What a beautiful interpretation! Thats what I was talking about when I say how powerful is the astrology. Its an art! Putting the things into the perspective!
Jupiter is the combust one, does it mean that I am gonna lose the best one? And the strong one is Saturn is malefic also in reverse, could it be that its development as well in small progress? Or it is Jupiter because it is sacrificing itself for its siblings? I wonder the planets represent triplets mean something on their owns? I think Mercury is being between Sun and Jupiter might mean that there will be a medical intervention as Mercury represents that. I was hoping one of the triplets would give up before the reduction time comes but it seems unlikely isn't it?
Thank you again so much. You might be the one who saved the lives of my twins....
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