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Horary Astrology Ask and answer any horary questions, and discuss theory and technique. Please post a chart of the time, date, and place you asked the question. Please do not ask the same question repeatedly, hoping for a different result: horary works best when you ask the question ONCE and then interpret the chart that results from when the question FIRST came into your mind. Horary forums are ONLY for discussion of horary charts and techniques.


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Unread 11-27-2006, 08:59 AM
Draco Draco is offline
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The Significator when the Reading does not Concern you.

Lately I have been thinking about those charts in which the inquiry does not immediately concern the inquirer, and which cusp should be taken as the main significator for such questions.

I really ought to be clear on this by now, but I am confused as to what is most appropriate, as I have heard conflicting opinions.

For example, Futurist recently asked a very interesting question about Alexander Litvinenko, the former Russian spy who was died from infecton with the radioactive substance Polonium 210 in London last week. She wanted to try and determine where it was that he was poisoned, and perhaps also, who may have done this to him.

As this is a question of worldly significance, and not a personal matter for Futurist, many would just give Litvinenko, the subject of the horary to the first cusp. However, if we give Futurist the first cusp, as she is after all the querent, regardless of whether Litvinenko is the important person in the horary or not, and we give the seventh to Litvinenko, this seems to make much more sense.

In Futurists horary, if we give Litvinenko to the ascendant then he is the Sun in jovial Sagittarius, which hardly seems appropriate. If we give him the seventh however, as 'the other person in general', then he is Saturn in detriment in Leo, which makes much more sense, as we are talking about a murdered man here who suffered greatly, so my reasoning is that he should be considered as the seventh. Having said this, I have interpreted horaries in the past, where if the question does not really concern the querent, but is a question of universal interest, I have taken the inquired of party as the ascendant, but this horary causes me to think that I have done wrong in this - the ascendant should always be the querent - whether they are important to be interpreted into the horary or not, as the case may be. Do you agree?

I once had this dilemma when I had been researching the Jack the Ripper murders, and while doing a bit of amateur sleuthing, the question arose, 'Who was Jack the Ripper?', (I must find the data for this in my notes) and I was very confused as to whether the Ripper should take the ascendant, him being the immediate concern of the inquiry, and it not being necessary to factor myself into the interpretation, or if he should be seen in the seventh, as 'another person' and of course a killer, an enemy.

I took this question to Skyscript, where a hot debate ensued between Deborah Houlding and Sue Ward, Deb believing that the Ripper must take the seventh, and Sue believing that he should take first. This wasn't much help really, as I respect both of them very much, and if they could not agree, that just left me very confused, and so I just had to decide for myself, and I went with Sue, and that the Ripper ought to take the first. However, now looking at this horary of Futurists, I think I was wrong, because Litvinenko is obviously so much better represented by Saturn. So I now think that the querent should always take the ascendant, even if it is not necessary to interpret them into the reading.

What do other's think?

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Unread 11-27-2006, 05:17 PM
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Re: The Significator when the Reading does not Concern you.

Hi Draco! Yes, the querent should always be the Ascendant, except, when you come to me and ask about Litvinenko. Then YOU come in the first, ME in the 7th (the astrologer) and Litvinenko, well, in which house do we find a spy? 12th? Lets say it is the 12th, the he comes there. I am going according to my book here (Astrologer Hamaker-Zondag, a Dutch, THE Dutch most well-known Astrologer. What do you think?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 03:46 AM
virgo96019 virgo96019 is offline
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Re: The Significator when the Reading does not Concern you.

Hey Draco, I just went through this same thing and came to the conclusion that the querent is always the ascendant. It’s hard to place myself in a chart where I have nothing really to do with the subject other than curiosity. When I used the first house as a significator it seemed that I couldn’t quite come up with an answer or that there was something missing…me! The ascendant tells me what my motives are, why I am interested, how I may feel, if I’m serious, practicing or trying to research etc. In your chart for Jack the ripper with you being the ascendant I wonder if it would show your confusion and delays in interperating the chart.
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