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  #1  
Unread 12-15-2019, 04:46 PM
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Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

All,

Suppose you were God and you wanted to create creatures that would act on their own and not be subject to your commands, so they could choose whether or not to follow your commands. You could simply create creatures and make it so they had free will...but how would you KNOW that you hadn't influenced them in some way?

But what if you had a way of creating a random personality generator? A method that would create ON ITS OWN a different personality in every creature. But what could you base the template on? It would have to be on something that would be around for a LONG time so it could ALWAYS be used to generate new personalities. Anything on Earth would not be permanent enough for the very long-time use this personality generator would need. What about the stars? The stars have random patterns that change all the time and a few minutes or even seconds would result in SOME type of change in the star pattern. If you mapped every new person born to the star pattern they would all be randomly different and all could be free to follow or not follow Your commands.

So maybe that's what astrology is: a random personality generator for God.

Wondering,

Tim

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Unread 12-15-2019, 05:17 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

God knows everything in advance through simple foreknowledge, and he does nothing randomly even though he gives choice to his creations. He does give different parents, siblings, sex, longevity, body, mind, livelihood, dignity, occupation, marriage, children, friendship, enmities and times (mazal), not only through genethlialogical and universal astrology, but especially through the nation and region of birth, which is not always synonymous with the latter.

The study of the history of the nations will indicate that drastic changes occur especially with significant changes in morals and ethics (and their corresponding acts). ''He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.'' (Daniel 2)

He may act outside these parameters (as when he will dissolve all heavenly stars and roll up the heavens like a scroll), and he will do this especially forcefully when he comes with his chosen and the myriad of his angels to execute great vengeance on the nations, and glorify the afflicted with victory.

Last edited by petosiris; 12-15-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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Unread 12-15-2019, 06:15 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

I can't speak about God. But that aside, you don't need a random personality generator. That is how things are already. Via genetics and all other influences, no one thing or being is like any other.

Everything in every moment is becoming what it is not--including you and I.
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Unread 12-15-2019, 06:16 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
You don't need a random personality generator. That is how things are already. Via genetics and all other influences, no one thing or being is like any other.

Everything in every moment is becoming what it is not--including you and I.
Yes, nature doesn't appear to have randomness.
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Unread 12-15-2019, 06:27 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Yes, nature doesn't appear to have randomness.

Hi, P. I suspect if you reread my post again you may see that I am asserting the opposite. I suggest that nature and all matters in the universe appear to be random.

So I am asserting that there is no need for a randomness *generator*


I hope it is okay if I suggest in a respectful and also friendly way that we may declare that we do not see things the same way. And then both of us may look to interact with the OP's comments rather than addressing what each of us posts.

With kind respect towards you and all,
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Unread 12-15-2019, 07:43 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
All,

Suppose you were God and you wanted to create creatures that would act on their own and not be subject to your commands, so they could choose whether or not to follow your commands. You could simply create creatures and make it so they had free will...but how would you KNOW that you hadn't influenced them in some way?

But what if you had a way of creating a random personality generator? A method that would create ON ITS OWN a different personality in every creature. But what could you base the template on? It would have to be on something that would be around for a LONG time so it could ALWAYS be used to generate new personalities. Anything on Earth would not be permanent enough for the very long-time use this personality generator would need. What about the stars?

The stars have random patterns

that change all the time

and a few minutes

or even seconds

would result in SOME type of change in the star pattern.


If you mapped every new person born to the star pattern they would all be

randomly different


and all could be free to follow or not follow Your commands.
So maybe that's what astrology is: a random personality generator for God.
Wondering,
Tim
maybe

'......Randomness is an abstract concept
like infinity
that exists only in concept
and has no physical basis.
True randomness is in fact achieved only with maximum entropy
which perhaps only exists when time is at infinity
(the same as the venerated Central Limit Theory).
In short,
never.....'

IS NATURE STABLE, DELICATE OR RANDOM?
https://climatecommunication.yale.ed...licate-random/

'....Americans conceptualize the balance of nature in very different ways.
Some think the balance of nature is very stable,
while others think it is very delicate, or alternatively,
random and unpredictable...'
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Unread 12-15-2019, 07:52 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Hi, P. I suspect if you reread my post again you may see that I am asserting the opposite. I suggest that nature and all matters in the universe appear to be random.

So I am asserting that there is no need for a randomness *generator*


I hope it is okay if I suggest in a respectful and also friendly way that we may declare that we do not see things the same way. And then both of us may look to interact with the OP's comments rather than addressing what each of us posts.

With kind respect towards you and all,
Hi, Ilenek. I apologize for the misunderstanding. The OP mentioned God, which implies purpose rather than nothingness. I am sure a non-theistic approach such as Buddhism or maybe even existentialist philosophy or atheism would see things the opposite way.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 04:16 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

Tim, this is a really interesting and fun idea.

But then, who or what is God? Perhaps humans are part of what God is.

Is complete free will even possible? (I'd say not.)

Meanwhile, your proposal gives me comfort in thinking that my character flaws are not personal moral failings, but the result of a random personality generator.

Big relief there.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

I will be back. Interesting.

Tim, Do you or have you read The Creation of Adam from the Gnostic texts? It beautifully answers you. The secret Book of John.

Last edited by Opal; 12-16-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 04:48 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Meanwhile, your proposal gives me comfort in thinking that my character flaws are not personal moral failings, but the result of a random personality generator.

Big relief there.
Doesn't determinism imply passivity of the subject?
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Unread 12-16-2019, 06:11 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Hi, Ilenek. I apologize for the misunderstanding. The OP mentioned God, which implies purpose rather than nothingness. I am sure a non-theistic approach such as Buddhism or maybe even existentialist philosophy or atheism would see things the opposite way.

Absolutely no apology needed. And thank you for your thoughtful and kind response.
Season's greetings to all!
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Unread 12-17-2019, 04:34 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

365 entities, gave a part of themselves, so that no one of them could claim his creation singularly. Now we are teaching, a one creator theology. Odd.

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-meyer.html


THE CREATION OF ADAM
Yaldabaoth said to the authorities with him, Come, let us create a human being after the image of god and with a likeness to ourselves, so that this human image may give us light.
They created through their respective powers, according to the features that were given to them. Each of the authorities contributed a psychical feature corresponding to the figure of the image they had seen. They created a being like the perfect first human and said, Let us call it Adam, that its name may give us power of light.
The powers began to create:
The first one, goodness, created a soul of bone.
The second, forethought, created a soul of sinew.
The third, divinity, created a soul of flesh.
The fourth, lordship, created a soul of marrow.
The fifth, kingdom, created a soul of blood.
The sixth, jealousy, created a soul of skin.
The seventh, understanding, created a soul of hair.
The throng of angels stood by and received these seven psychical substances from the authorities in order to create a network of limbs and trunk, with all the parts properly arranged.
The first one, who is Raphao, began by creating the head,
Abron created the skull,
Meniggesstroeth created the brain,
Asterechme the right eye,
Thaspomocha the left eye,
Yeronumos the right ear,
Bissoum the left ear,
Akioreim the nose,
Banen-Ephroum the lips,
Amen the teeth,
Ibikan the molars,
Basiliademe the tonsils,
Achcha the uvula,
Adaban the neck,
Chaaman the vertebrae,
Dearcho the throat,
Tebar the right shoulder,
N——the left shoulder,
Mniarchon the right elbow,
——e the left elbow,
Abitrion the right underarm,
Euanthen the left underarm,
Krus the right hand,
Beluai the left hand,
Treneu the fingers of the right hand,
Balbel the fingers of the left hand,
Krima the fingernails,
Astrops the right breast,
Barroph the left breast,
Baoum the right shoulder joint,
Ararim the left shoulder joint,
Areche the belly,
Phthaue the navel,
Senaphim the abdomen,
Arachethopi the right ribs,
Zabedo the left ribs,
Barias the right hip,
Phnouth the left hip,
Abenlenarchei the marrow,
Chnoumeninorin the bones,
Gesole the stomach,
Agromauma the heart,
Bano the lungs,
Sostrapal the liver,
Anesimalar the spleen,
Thopithro the intestines,
Biblo the kidneys,
Roeror the sinews,
Taphreo the backbone,
Ipouspoboba the veins,
Bineborin the arteries,
Aatoimenpsephei the breaths in all the limbs,
Entholleia all the flesh,
Bedouk the right buttock,
Arabeei the left buttock,
. . . the penis,
Eilo the testicles,
Sorma the genitals,
Gormakaiochlabar the right thigh,
Nebrith the left thigh,
Pserem the muscles of the right leg,
Asaklas the muscle of the left,
Ormaoth the right leg,
Emenun the left leg,
Knux the right shin,
Tupelon the left shin,
Achiel the right ankle,
Phneme the left ankle,
Phiouthrom the right foot,
Boabel its toes,
Trachoun the left foot,
Phikna its toes,
Miamai the toenails,
Labernioum. . . .
Those who are appointed over all these are seven in number:
Athoth,
Armas,
Kalila,
Yabel,
Sabaoth,
Cain,
Abel.
Those who activate the limbs are, part by part:
the head, Diolimodraza,
the neck, Yammeax,
the right shoulder, Yakouib,
the left shoulder, Ouerton,
the right hand, Oudidi,
the left one, Arbao,
the fingers of the right hand, Lampno,
the fingers of the left hand, Leekaphar,
the right breast, Barbar,
the left breast, Imae,
the chest, Pisandraptes,
the right shoulder joint, Koade,
the left shoulder joint, Odeor,
the right ribs, Asphixix,
the left ribs, Sunogchouta,
the abdomen, Arouph,
the womb, Sabalo,
the right thigh, Charcharb,
the left thigh, Chthaon,
all the genitals, Bathinoth,
the right leg, Choux,
the left leg, Charcha,
the right shin, Aroer,
the left shin, Toechtha,
the right ankle, Aol,
the left ankle, Charaner,
the right foot, Bastan,
its toes, Archentechtha,
the left foot, Marephnounth,
its toes, Abrana.
Seven have been empowered over all these:
Michael,
Uriel,
Asmenedas,
Saphasatoel,
Aarmouriam,
Richram,
Amiorps.
Those who are over the senses are Archendekta,
the one who is over perception is Deitharbathas,
the one who is over imagination is Oummaa,
the one who is over arrangement is Aachiaram,
the one who is over all impulse to action is Riaramnacho.
The source of the demons that are in the entire body is divided into four:
heat,
cold,
wetness,
dryness.
The mother of them all is matter.
The one who is lord over heat is Phloxopha,
the one who is lord over cold is Oroorrothos,
the one who is lord over what is dry is Erimacho,
the one who is lord over wetness is Athuro.
The mother of all these, Onorthochras, stands in the midst of them, for she is unlimited and mingles with them all. She is matter, and by her they are nourished.
The four principal demons are:
Ephememphi, the demon of pleasure,
Yoko, the demon of desire,
Nenentophni, the demon of grief,
Blaomen, the demon of fear.
The mother of them all is Esthesis-Ouch-Epi-Ptoe.
From the four demons have come passions:
From grief come jealousy, envy, pain, trouble, distress, hardheartedness, anxiety, sorrow, and others.
From pleasure comes an abundance of evil, vain conceit, and the like.
From desire come anger, wrath, bitterness, intense lust, greed, and the like.
From fear come terror, servility, anguish, and shame.
All these are like virtues and vices. The insight into their true nature is Anaro, who is head of the material soul, and it dwells with Esthesis-Z-Ouch-Epi-Ptoe.
This is the number of angels. In all they number 365. They all worked together until, limb by limb, the psychical and material body was completed. Now, there are others over the remaining passions, and I have not told you about them. If you want to know about them, the information is recorded in the Book of Zoroaster.
ADAM RECEIVES SPIRIT AND LIFE
All the angels and demons worked together until they fashioned the psychical body. But for a long time their creation did not stir or move at all.
When the mother wanted to take back the power she had relinquished to the first ruler, she prayed to the most merciful mother-father of all. With a sacred command the mother-father sent five luminaries down to the place of the angels of the first ruler. They advised him so that they might recover the mother’s power.
They said to Yaldabaoth, Breathe some of your spirit into the face of Adam, and then the body will arise.
He breathed his spirit into Adam. The spirit is the power of his mother, but he did not realize this, because he lives in ignorance. The mother’s power went out of Yaldabaoth and into the psychical body that had been made to be like the one who is from the beginning.
The body moved and became powerful. And it was enlightened.
At once the rest of the powers became jealous. Although Adam had come into being through all of them, and they had given their power to this human, Adam was more intelligent than the creators and the first ruler. When they realized that Adam was enlightened, and could think more clearly than they, and was stripped of evil, they took and threw Adam into the lowest part of the whole material realm.
The blessed, benevolent, merciful mother-father had compassion for the mother’s power that had been removed from the first ruler. The rulers might be able to overpower the psychical, perceptible body once again. So with its benevolent spirit and great mercy the mother-father sent a helper to Adam, an enlightened afterthought who is from the mother-father and who was called life. She helped the whole creature, laboring with it, restoring it to its fullness, teaching it about the descent of the seed, teaching it about the way of ascent, which is the way of descent.
Enlightened afterthought was hidden within Adam so that the rulers might not recognize her, but that afterthought might be able to restore what the mother lacked.
THE IMPRISONMENT OF HUMANITY

Last edited by Opal; 12-17-2019 at 05:42 AM.
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Unread 12-17-2019, 04:40 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Doesn't determinism imply passivity of the subject?
Oh, I give up!
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 12-17-2019, 09:50 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Oh, I give up!
Oh, thanks cadent planets.

How does modern science explain moral failings? Has neurology found free will?

From macro perspective, the blank slate model implies (contradictory) complete determinism by culture, while the sociobiological model implies some determinism by the nature of the individual, so that he is able to act on his own, although based on adaptions by ancestors.

Perhaps the spirit of God is required to have free choice.

Last edited by petosiris; 12-17-2019 at 10:12 AM.
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Unread 12-17-2019, 10:03 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

I've read a number of books about hypnotic past-life regression therapies, which have examined the question of whether we choose our time-date-place of birth or whether it's random. It seems it makes a difference how 'old' the soul is, ie how many incarnations it has had.

New souls just starting out on this earth journey dive in and out of bodies without pre-selection. "Experience" is all they need in order to start creating a proper human soul, which is a repository of the higher-value qualities in human nature. These early souls are 'just' an aggregate of elemental forces making up the physical-emotional-mental bodies. They are at the mercy of the genes passed down in the family they unthinkingly incarnate into, and at the mercy of the corresponding astro patterns and influences conditioning the moment at which they are born. They go through life reacting unconsciously to their surroundings and often their lives are short and painful. They return quickly if not instantly into the next body because little self-awareness has been gained allowing for a consideration of experience gained and the lessons learnt by it.

Older souls have started to create their permanent soul body into which is poured the best of each of their lifetimes. This permanent body becomes active in between lifetimes and is able to start selecting the place, body, and family that will be ideal for the next stage of its evolutionary journey.

Mature souls have developed enough self-awareness to be able to lift themselves above the automatic, instinctual responses to life's events, and to direct those events with real choices and intentional selecting of the 'higher' pathway when a crossroads is encountered. The Soul is un-patterned (not subject to astro forces) unlike the personality. As the Soul becomes more influential in the daily life, it sidesteps or overcomes the personality responses that astro influences would have upon the person.
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Unread 12-18-2019, 05:55 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Oh, thanks cadent planets.

How does modern science explain moral failings? Has neurology found free will?

From macro perspective, the blank slate model implies (contradictory) complete determinism by culture, while the sociobiological model implies some determinism by the nature of the individual, so that he is able to act on his own, although based on adaptions by ancestors.

Perhaps the spirit of God is required to have free choice.
"Free will" and determinism are both equally mistaken. Neither one is entirely possible. "Moral choice" is a better concept than "free will" if we wish to get at the possibility of one's autonomous control over one's actions.

Here: read this: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/ .

I don't think neuroscientists believe that each of their own thoughts and actions are beyond their conscious control-- thus reducing them to the status of pre-programmed robots.

I'm OK with "the spirit of God," however one understands it.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 12-18-2019, 12:54 PM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

I think the Cosmos does show mathematic patterns therefore a creator.
I'm a big fan of Phi/Golden ratio patterns that draw life:-

Last edited by Monk; 12-25-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Unread 12-19-2019, 03:49 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
All,

Suppose you were God and you wanted to create creatures that would act on their own and not be subject to your commands, so they could choose whether or not to follow your commands. You could simply create creatures and make it so they had free will...but how would you KNOW that you hadn't influenced them in some way?

But what if you had a way of creating a random personality generator? A method that would create ON ITS OWN a different personality in every creature. But what could you base the template on? It would have to be on something that would be around for a LONG time so it could ALWAYS be used to generate new personalities. Anything on Earth would not be permanent enough for the very long-time use this personality generator would need. What about the stars? The stars have random patterns that change all the time and a few minutes or even seconds would result in SOME type of change in the star pattern. If you mapped every new person born to the star pattern they would all be randomly different and all could be free to follow or not follow Your commands.

So maybe that's what astrology is: a random personality generator for God.

Wondering,

Tim
Hi Tim. I think Einstein had is right in that God does not play dice with the universe. My worldview sees an overall unity of God in the wholistic sense but each of us has a particularity that is expressed to make God more conscious of itself. We evolve God as much as God evolves us. Our notions of God has changed over time e.g. the old judgmental God to the loving God. Our notion continues to change as we move from one mythology to another as represented by our astrological symbols. For instance - Moses brought in the Fiery Aryan God - I am that I am in a burning bush but dealt with a regressive episode of resurrecting the Taurean Golden Bull before the new myth could coalesce. Then we have the Piscean myths with all the miracles of water and fish, etc. We move now to Aquarius with hopefully our collective consciousness of how astrology decorates our lives with the richness of new myths that we participate in and co-create. Astrology is encoded in the Genesis of our Judeo-Christian texts - see attached.

Each of us has a part to play in the plan for greater consciousness of our unique playgrounds. Astrology helps us see our unique blueprints that were settled upon before entering the game. I believe that we choose to pretend that we are in a random space. My sense is that it is anything but random.
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Unread 12-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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maybe God DOES play dice with the universe, to Kite

Kite,

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Hi Tim. I think Einstein had is right in that God does not play dice with the universe. My worldview sees an overall unity of God in the wholistic sense but each of us has a particularity that is expressed to make God more conscious of itself. We evolve God as much as God evolves us. Our notions of God has changed over time e.g. the old judgmental God to the loving God. Our notion continues to change as we move from one mythology to another as represented by our astrological symbols. For instance - Moses brought in the Fiery Aryan God - I am that I am in a burning bush but dealt with a regressive episode of resurrecting the Taurean Golden Bull before the new myth could coalesce. Then we have the Piscean myths with all the miracles of water and fish, etc. We move now to Aquarius with hopefully our collective consciousness of how astrology decorates our lives with the richness of new myths that we participate in and co-create. Astrology is encoded in the Genesis of our Judeo-Christian texts - see attached.
When Einstein said that famous quote, he was trying to refute quantum physics, which to Einstein was an impossibly random way of looking at the world. Well, it turns out that quantum physics WAS a thing, and Einstein was wrong about that. Quantum physics has opened up a whole new way of looking at the universe, and shown us a world of massive interconnection. Some even use it as a way to understand astrology. But what is the SOURCE of that interconnection and WHY?

Perhaps it is not GOD that is changing, but our perception of God that is changing. As you say, the view of God changes according to the ages: Aryan followed by Piscean followed by Aquarian view. And, it's interesting that part of the Aryan God of Moses is REFUTiNG the old Taurean God in the story about Golden Calf idolatry.

Continuing this thought, the thing that concerns me about the Aquarian age is that the lesson of the sign is in the sign that follows: so Aries needs to be more grounded like Taurus, Pisces needs to take their scattered nature and bring it into a focus on simply being like Aries. Keeping this idea in mind, the nature of the grouping of Aquarius is about the chaos of Pisces: the goal of Aquarius IS chaos and dissolving all barriers (Pisces). Certainly we've begun to see that at all levels of society now.

But is all this change random or part of a divine purpose. And if it IS part of a divine purpose, can we then be said to have free will, if our efforts are to serve a larger, divine goal?

Still wondering,

Tim
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Unread 12-26-2019, 10:54 PM
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Re: maybe God DOES play dice with the universe, to Kite

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.....

Perhaps it is not GOD that is changing, but our perception of God that is changing. As you say, the view of God changes according to the ages: Aryan followed by Piscean followed by Aquarian view. And, it's interesting that part of the Aryan God of Moses is REFUTiNG the old Taurean God in the story about Golden Calf idolatry.
I think our perceptions of God are changing, at least for Christian/post-Christian countries. The old Biblical tropes about God the Father, the King, or the anthropomorphized patriarchal supreme deity are not positive images for many modern western people.

Some eastern religions worship more in terms of a formless Divine Presence that permeates the cosmos, including the small parcels of the cosmos that we inhabit on Planet Earth. If we stop and empty our minds of all of our day-to-day worries, each of us can experience this Divine Presence. We can call it God (omnipresent) or something else meaningful to us.

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Continuing this thought, the thing that concerns me about the Aquarian age is that the lesson of the sign is in the sign that follows: so Aries needs to be more grounded like Taurus, Pisces needs to take their scattered nature and bring it into a focus on simply being like Aries. Keeping this idea in mind, the nature of the grouping of Aquarius is about the chaos of Pisces: the goal of Aquarius IS chaos and dissolving all barriers (Pisces). Certainly we've begun to see that at all levels of society now.
I hadn't heard this description of the great astrological ages previously. I don't know whose idea it is, but I doubt that it operates beyond the level of the history of western religion. Theoretically when the spring equinox was in Taurus, the Cretan religion was involved with bull worship. Ancient Egyptians had several cow-themed gods like Hathor. Theoretically when the equinox was in Aries, the OT/Jewish Bible had leaders who were shepherds (Moses, David) or metaphors for God as shepherd (23rd Psalm.) A new important Egyptian god emerged: ram-headed Ammon.

In the New Testament, written about the time that the equinox moved into Pisces, Jesus befriends fishermen, multiplies loaves and fishes, and walks on water. The fish symbol (ichthys) is one of the most ancient symbols of Christianity. I think Revelation shows the struggle between siderealists (Pisces equinox) and tropical astrologers (Aries equinox.) The book ends with the Triumph of the Lamb.

Pisces, regardless, is surely much more than chaos. The sun-sign is associated with compassion for unwashed humanity, intuition, and emotional adaption. (mutable water.)

Aquarius/Uranus rule science, and things futuristic and electronic. Surely we have abundant evidence of the Age of Aquarius upon us, with the Internet, IT (the fixed air sign,) and the advent of driverless vehicles.

Both signs have less structured views of how people ought to behave in terms of marriage and the family, which seems more like Capricorn/Saturn. On the other hand, new barriers are being strengthened, like more legal protection for vulnerable children. The #MeToo movement is about ending the open season on women by predatory males.

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But is all this change random or part of a divine purpose. And if it IS part of a divine purpose, can we then be said to have free will, if our efforts are to serve a larger, divine goal?

Still wondering,

Tim
Complete free will is an impossibility. It's too bad the early Church Fathers settled on this term. Complete determinism is contrary to our natures even if neuroscience increasingly argues its case. Neuroscientists themselves don't believe they are pre-programmed automatons.

Maybe we can settle on the indeterminate grey zone in between these two untenable extremes. We can talk about ethics and moral choice.

So far as Divine Purpose goes, as one rabbi once asked, "If we could understand Him, could He really be God?"
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Unread 12-27-2019, 02:09 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

In a nutshell ...


If you read esoteric philosophy (theosophy) or Hindu philosophy (I've been a student of both), then we are all "God" in the form of conscious energy. All of life is "God" energy. The nature of God energy is pure consciousness - peaceful, aware and timeless. Therefore, there is order. We are parts of God who are separated from this knowledge in physical reality, evolving to become more aware of who we are - God consciousness. It's like God is the ocean and we are drops of that ocean. When we realize that we are God consciousness, we are enlightened. Then we can choose not to come back into physical form. Until enlightenment, the individual soul reincarnates until it becomes aware of its true nature while in the body. When the Soul is not in a body, it cannot grow in consciousness, so it reincarnates into a physical body where there are challenges that force us to grow and become. Everything is connected to everything else. That's the foundation for astrology. That's how we can see ourselves in our Sun signs and Moon signs and Ascendants. The planets are of the same consciousness we are. Esoteric philosophy - metaphysics - has it all worked out down to minute details of the atom and how it works in consciousness. There's book entitled "The Consciousness of the Atom". It's heady stuff. It's not for everyone, but I love it! Much of theosophy is actually Hindu Philosophy. Here's a link to Lucis Trust (Alice Bailey books) if anyone is interested. https://www.lucistrust.org/books/alice_bailey_books
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Unread 12-27-2019, 02:17 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Originally Posted by Harmelia View Post
In a nutshell ...


If you read esoteric philosophy (theosophy) or Hindu philosophy (I've been a student of both), then we are all "God" in the form of conscious energy. All of life is "God" energy. The nature of God energy is pure consciousness - peaceful, aware and timeless. Therefore, there is order. We are parts of God who are separated from this knowledge in physical reality, evolving to become more aware of who we are - God consciousness. It's like God is the ocean and we are drops of that ocean. When we realize that we are God consciousness, we are enlightened. Then we can choose not to come back into physical form. Until enlightenment, the individual soul reincarnates until it becomes aware of its true nature while in the body. When the Soul is not in a body, it cannot grow in consciousness, so it reincarnates into a physical body where there are challenges that force us to grow and become. Everything is connected to everything else. That's the foundation for astrology. That's how we can see ourselves in our Sun signs and Moon signs and Ascendants. The planets are of the same consciousness we are. Esoteric philosophy - metaphysics - has it all worked out down to minute details of the atom and how it works in consciousness. There's book entitled "The Consciousness of the Atom". It's heady stuff. It's not for everyone, but I love it! Much of theosophy is actually Hindu Philosophy. Here's a link to Lucis Trust (Alice Bailey books) if anyone is interested. https://www.lucistrust.org/books/alice_bailey_books
Trust Lucifer?
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Unread 12-27-2019, 03:14 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

Lucifer was an ancient name for Venus as the morning star. Seen as arrogant because it preceded the sun.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 12-27-2019, 03:15 AM
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Re: Astrology as God's random personality randomizer

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Lucifer was an ancient name for Venus as the morning star. Seen as arrogant because it preceded the sun.
Do you really believe that they named the trust after the planet?

Alice and Foster Bailey were serious students and teachers of Theosophy, a spiritual tradition which views Lucifer as one of the solar Angels, those advanced Beings Who Theosophy says descended (thus “the fall”) from Venus to our planet eons ago to bring the principle of mind to what was then animal-man. In the theosophical perspective, the descent of these solar Angels was not a fall into sin or disgrace but rather an act of great sacrifice, as is suggested in the name “Lucifer” which means light-bearer. - https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_sc...eaning_lucifer

Who is this guy? Can I really trust him?

Last edited by petosiris; 12-27-2019 at 03:27 AM.
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Unread 12-27-2019, 03:22 AM
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Re: maybe God DOES play dice with the universe, to Kite

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Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Kite,



When Einstein said that famous quote, he was trying to refute quantum physics, which to Einstein was an impossibly random way of looking at the world. Well, it turns out that quantum physics WAS a thing, and Einstein was wrong about that. Quantum physics has opened up a whole new way of looking at the universe, and shown us a world of massive interconnection. Some even use it as a way to understand astrology. But what is the SOURCE of that interconnection and WHY?

Perhaps it is not GOD that is changing, but our perception of God that is changing. As you say, the view of God changes according to the ages: Aryan followed by Piscean followed by Aquarian view. And, it's interesting that part of the Aryan God of Moses is REFUTiNG the old Taurean God in the story about Golden Calf idolatry.

Continuing this thought, the thing that concerns me about the Aquarian age is that the lesson of the sign is in the sign that follows: so Aries needs to be more grounded like Taurus, Pisces needs to take their scattered nature and bring it into a focus on simply being like Aries. Keeping this idea in mind, the nature of the grouping of Aquarius is about the chaos of Pisces: the goal of Aquarius IS chaos and dissolving all barriers (Pisces). Certainly we've begun to see that at all levels of society now.

But is all this change random or part of a divine purpose. And if it IS part of a divine purpose, can we then be said to have free will, if our efforts are to serve a larger, divine goal?

Still wondering,

Tim
Fate or Free Will - the big existential question. I believe that astrology deals with the realm of probabilities. Fate sets up these probabilities that are not set in stone (another reference to the Moses story where the original tablets etched by God are broken when the Israelites regressed and then rewritten by Moses - God's determinism or Moses interpretation?).

Carl Jung addressed the ever-evolving God in his book Answer to Job. He posits that God was in a more primitive state when he tested Job's faith. He then seeks to incarnate himself into humanity so that he can continue to evolve. It is a provocative take on our spiritual nature.

I wrote a book a decade ago that touched on many of these themes. One night, in a dream, I was handed a book. It was called the Aquarian Gospel. I searched the Web for it and found it. It was a gospel channeled in the early 20th century. It speaks to the transition of the ages from Pisces to Aquarius and the meaning of Christ's role in his Office of the avatar of the age. It is quite interesting and I included a number of the passages that showed the shift from Aries to Pisces. Here is a link to it for those interested https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/agjc/index.htm
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