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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 12-25-2019, 09:31 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Jupiter cazimi in Capricorn would suggest a different result
than Jupiter cazimi in Sagittarius, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Jupiter is depressed/in fall in Capricorn, while he is in his own house in Sagittarius

and also in its own triangle by night, obviously it will have a different result.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=130820


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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Table for 1-4



Table for 7-10



Table for 15-19


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  #27  
Unread 12-25-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Jupiter is depressed/in fall in Capricorn, while he is in his own house in Sagittarius and also in its own triangle by night, obviously it will have a different result.
The question then becomes, will the depression be alleviated or accentuated, since this Jupiter camizi is in tropical Capricorn.
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  #28  
Unread 12-25-2019, 09:56 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The question then becomes, will the depression be alleviated or accentuated, since this Jupiter camizi is in tropical Capricorn.
Alleviated (Lilly would give - 4 for fall and + 5 for cazimi = + 1 power), although some opinions would have Sun in Libra giving less cazimi power to my Mercury, because the Sun is in fall, but this is surely wrong.
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  #29  
Unread 12-30-2019, 10:54 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Alleviated (Lilly would give - 4 for fall and + 5 for cazimi = + 1 power),
although some opinions would have Sun in Libra giving less cazimi power to my Mercury,
because the Sun is in fall, but this is surely wrong.
Exactly - not to mention hemispheric considerations
not necessarily applicable in your case
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  #30  
Unread 01-01-2020, 03:41 PM
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Re: Cazimi

I have two questions:

1. HOW much time (in minutes per year ) Jupiter (or any other planet) cazimi lasts , compared to the time (in minutes per year ) it is exactly conjunct an angle of a chart?


2. how often does a Mercury cazimi in Virgo/Gemini happen vs.

how often does a Venus cazimi happen in Libra/Taurus?


I`m asking about it because both Mercury and Venus cazimi happen only in certain signs, ASAIK.

And an exact conjunction of Sun with an angle is possible in any sign

My knowledge and experience is limited, but I`ve seen many charts featuring a planet on an angle, but not many featuring a planet cazimi.
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  #31  
Unread 01-01-2020, 04:31 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post

I have two questions:
1. HOW much time (in minutes per year ) Jupiter (or any other planet) cazimi lasts ,
compared to the time (in minutes per year ) it is exactly conjunct an angle of a chart?


2. how often does a Mercury cazimi in Virgo/Gemini happen vs.
how often does a Venus cazimi happen in Libra/Taurus?


I`m asking about it because both Mercury and Venus cazimi happen only in certain signs, ASAIK.
nine thousand years EPHEMERIS is FREE online at https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm
so you may easily check for yourself
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  #32  
Unread 01-01-2020, 04:36 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by dd78 View Post


And an exact conjunction of Sun with an angle is possible in any sign

that's NOT SURPRISING

because

SUNRISE angle is when Sun is on EASTERN horizon aka ASCENDANT

SUNSET angle is when Sun is on WESTERN horizon aka DESCENDANT

MC angle represents MID-DAY SUN FOR YOUR LOCATION

IC angle is simply opposite point of Mid-day Sun for your location

clearly
an exact conjunction of any planet with any angle is possible in any sign


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  #33  
Unread 01-01-2020, 04:37 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by dd78 View Post


My knowledge and experience is limited, but
I`ve seen many charts featuring a planet on an angle, but
not many featuring a planet cazimi.
a cazimi planet is conjunct Sun by Latitude as well as Longitude
that's rare
not many charts feature a planet cazimi whether on an angle or not

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  #34  
Unread 01-01-2020, 05:19 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
I have two questions:

<...>
2. how often does a Mercury cazimi in Virgo/Gemini happen vs.

how often does a Venus cazimi happen in Libra/Taurus?


I`m asking about it because both Mercury and Venus cazimi happen only in certain signs, ASAIK.

And an exact conjunction of Sun with an angle is possible in any sign

My knowledge and experience is limited, but I`ve seen many charts featuring a planet on an angle, but not many featuring a planet cazimi.

Could you or someone else say more about Mercury and Venus only being able to conjoin/cazimi the Sun in certain signs?

I understand that Merc and Venus move closely with the Sun. But as to whether or not they actually conjoin or cazimi Sun in each sign or not, I've never really taken note of.

If it is true, does its explanation have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits being between Earth and Sun, while Earth lies between the orbits of the rest of the planets and the Sun? Does anyone know?
Happy New Year all!
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  #35  
Unread 01-01-2020, 05:44 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post

Could you or someone else say more about Mercury and Venus
only being able to conjoin/cazimi the Sun in certain signs?
I understand that Merc and Venus move closely with the Sun.
But as to whether or not they actually conjoin or cazimi Sun in each sign
or not, I've never really taken note of.
If it is true, does its explanation have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits
being between Earth and Sun, while Earth lies between the orbits
of the rest of the planets and the Sun? Does anyone know?
Happy New Year all!
check the very useful
nine thousand years EPHEMERIS FREE online
at https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm
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  #36  
Unread 01-01-2020, 05:48 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
check the very useful
nine thousand years EPHEMERIS FREE online
at https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

Thank you, JA, and this does not address my question, as I am seeking an explanation of the dynamic. As you may know, ephemerides do not tend to explain but rather report, much like yourself

I welcome anyone sharing what they know about my inquiry?
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  #37  
Unread 01-01-2020, 05:57 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you, JA, and this does not address my question, as I am seeking an explanation of the dynamic.
As you may know, ephemerides do not tend to explain but rather report, much like yourself

I welcome anyone sharing what they know about my inquiry?
As you may know
an Ephemeris is a checkable database
on which anyone may check for themselves whether or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post

Mercury and Venus
only being able to conjoin/cazimi the Sun in certain signs?
for those unfamiliar with an EPHEMERIS
planets are shown by sign location
and so

one may check
location of any planet or planets
and
in this particular case
one may then check

whether Mercury and Venus
are in same degree and minute of same sign
on any given date of any given year


nine thousand years EPHEMERIS FREE online
at https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm
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  #38  
Unread 01-01-2020, 06:23 PM
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Smile Re: Cazimi

Mercury/Sun cazimi January 10, 2020 in tropical Capricorn.
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  #39  
Unread 01-01-2020, 06:39 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Mercury/Sun cazimi January 10, 2020 in tropical Capricorn.
so that's longitude cazimi - not latitude as well
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  #40  
Unread 01-01-2020, 06:53 PM
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so that's longitude cazimi - not latitude as well
Are both required for a Traditional definition of "cazimi"?
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  #41  
Unread 01-01-2020, 07:35 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Are both required for a Traditional definition of "cazimi"?
discussed on page one of this thread
i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Most traditional authors don't mention latitude, and only require longitude.
The Sun is never north or south of the ecliptic, and traditionally
does not miss applications and separations anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

perhaps not all
some
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post




BONATTI prescribes 16’ from the Sun BOTH in longitude AND in latitude
Bonatti’s rule is astronomically more accurate
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  #42  
Unread 01-01-2020, 08:57 PM
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Smile Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
discussed on page one of this thread
i.e.
In that case, cazimi for Mercury requires that Mercury must be nearly at its own node, which is in the plane of the ecliptic as delineated by the Sun. Very rare occurrence, then.
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  #43  
Unread 01-01-2020, 09:07 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

In that case, cazimi for Mercury requires that Mercury must be nearly at its own node,
which is in the plane of the ecliptic as delineated by the Sun.
Very rare occurrence, then.
The Ecliptic is a great circle on the celestial sphere
representing the sun's apparent path during the year
so called because
lunar and solar eclipses can only occur when the moon crosses the Ecliptic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic


As seen from the orbiting Earth
the Sun appears to move with respect to the fixed stars
and the ecliptic is the yearly path the Sun follows on the celestial sphere.
This process repeats itself in a cycle lasting a little over 365 days.


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  #44  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:06 PM
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Smile Re: Cazimi

When the Moon is cazimi (according to Bonatti), it's a total eclipse of the Sun.
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  #45  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:09 PM
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Smile Re: Cazimi

Strange that when the two Luminaries are together, darkness is the result!
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  #46  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:26 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


When the Moon is cazimi

(according to Bonatti), it's a total eclipse of the Sun.
as stated

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post


lunar and solar eclipses can only occur when the moon crosses the Ecliptic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic


As seen from the orbiting Earth
the Sun appears to move with respect to the fixed stars
and the ecliptic is the yearly path the Sun follows on the celestial sphere.
This process repeats itself in a cycle lasting a little over 365 days.





Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


Strange that when the two Luminaries are together, darkness is the result!






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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 01-01-2020 at 10:32 PM.
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  #47  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:28 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Strange that when the two Luminaries are together, darkness is the result!
Traditionally, eclipses are not always inauspicious. They are just affluential.
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  #48  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:32 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
I have two questions:

1. HOW much time (in minutes per year ) Jupiter (or any other planet) cazimi lasts , compared to the time (in minutes per year ) it is exactly conjunct an angle of a chart?


2. how often does a Mercury cazimi in Virgo/Gemini happen vs.

how often does a Venus cazimi happen in Libra/Taurus?


I`m asking about it because both Mercury and Venus cazimi happen only in certain signs, ASAIK.

And an exact conjunction of Sun with an angle is possible in any sign

My knowledge and experience is limited, but I`ve seen many charts featuring a planet on an angle, but not many featuring a planet cazimi.
Depends on what is your definition of ''exactly conjunct''?

Cazimi planets by 16 minute longitude are quite rare, I am one of the blessed children of mother nature. I even have it exactly at IC.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-01-2020 at 10:35 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Depends on what is your definition of ''exactly conjunct''?

Cazimi planets by 16 minute longitude are quite rare, I am one of the blessed children of mother nature.
Is Mercury at its node?
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  #50  
Unread 01-01-2020, 10:35 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Is Mercury at its node?
Nope, but it doesn't need to be!!!
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