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Unread 07-07-2019, 09:06 AM
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Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

This is a thread that is focused on generational & familial astrology, although it comes from it from a different perspective.

I was having a conversation with moonkat about her adopted family, and the uncommon position that they are currently in. She indicated to me that her dad and brother are the last family members with their peculiar surname (apparently its very rare), and after these two males have passed the specific family line will become extinct, and along with it this special last name.

Particularly we were discussing her father and how his life was full of tragedy and how it seemed like a pall of death was continuously over his head, as if to drive home that he was in the midst of wrapping up or ending something significant.

Moonkat gave me a brief background of his history

Quote:
His mother had Alzheimer's. His dad had a blood clot and was in recovery in the hospital. The day before he died, the doctor said, he's definitely going to make a full recovery. He died the next day from an infection.

He had 5 aunts and uncles, siblings of his parents. None had children. They grew up in the great depression and lived frugally to say the least. The family estate was a large house built by his maternal great great grandfather.

When his mother passed away, he sold the estate. It was torn down and turned into two houses on Long Island. His maternal grandmother lived with him and frequently saw an astrologer. His father was a NYC policeman.
As if we were on a psychic hotline, a couple of days later moonkat was contacted by her father and he came "out of left field" stating that he wanted to write about his family lineage. He also clarified to her that he did actually have a couple of aunts who had children, although they do not share his last name and were also decades older than him. His family name will still end with his son.

But at this point you are probably wondering, if he had a son can't he just continue the family line with children of his own? The answer to that is that this man has a lot of obstacles in his way and is not likely to ever have any children.

By Moonkat's account -

Quote:
My brother, his son, is developmentally challenged, with Asperger's, Bipolar, Clinical Depression, ADHD, discalculia, dyslexia, etc. He will never be independent. My parents have created a trust for him to live off of.

He is a miracle child. When my mother and father were dating, she had an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit that burst one of her arteries and destroyed her ovaries. The doctors said she would be barren. She collapsed in front of my father as he was leaving and he took her to the hospital and she survived.

They were about to try in vitro fertilization. It was scheduled for the week they found out they were pregnant. It was a difficult pregnancy. She was on bed rest for 8 months.
If the difficulty of the conception wasn't enough, then the child would be wrought with conditions that makes it for him nigh impossible to live a normal life. And unfortunately this seems to include any chances at romance and building a family of his own.

These days, the father spends the majority of his time watching his son play video games. The father also has a history of self-harm and depression, but on the other hand is very intelligent with a prodigious memory - I've been told that he can quote chapter and verse passages that he read from his high school days.

Astrologically speaking, is it possible for us to see the ending of the family line in either of these individuals' charts? Does the natal chart have encoded in it the genetic legacy & origin of a family? Can an "origin chart" be reverse engineered by looking at the ending of a familial line? What can a single chart say about multi-generational patterns? Can it say anything about that at all?

Father's chart
https://i.imgur.com/Rq1imq3.jpg

Brother's chart
https://i.imgur.com/oG6k4B2.jpg

Here are the charts of the two "last men". The Father's chart looks like one that is more befitting of "the end". Very apparent is that his MC/IC axis is on the 29th degree of fixed signs Scorpio and Taurus, with the 29th degree of Taurus signifying "permanent endings". The IC is one's legacy, family and the grave.

His nodal axis across the ASC-DSC axis is also descriptive of one who is coming from a place of "others" (SN-DSC) to a place of "self" (NN-ASC). His is a path of developing individuality and independence. Where he comes from (SN) is also conjunct Pluto which on the one hand can indicate that where he is coming from is dying or going underground. This configuration also tells the story of the death of his best friend and how that shocked him into closing himself off from the world and embracing a more loner existence.

The rulerships of his nodal axis is also telling. The SN is ruled by the Sun in the 12th house. This house has significations toward wider karmic cycles and the "collective unconscious". It's a house of bondage, isolation and anguish. It is a house of "summing up" as the accumulated experiences are distilled and generalized in such a way as to be transformed into collective wisdom or those mythical/spiritual insights that remain alive and relevant for humanity all the time, everywhere. The Capricorn Sun/Chiron conjunct in the 12th is gloomy, but the potential for deep wisdom and insight is there, born from a life that constantly challenges and undermines the ego as it is constantly shown the ways it is inadequate and not as in control as it would like to be. The connection between the 7th house of others/intimate partnerships and the 12th house of anguish, the collective and karma/moksha is integral to this man's destiny.

Since this is an introduction I will stop there and briefly look at the chart of the brother. This one doesn't strike me as a chart of finality, but there are still some interesting patterns I spot. His nodal axis is awfully close to the end of the zodiac at 28 Virgo/Pisces with the NN pointing toward the ground (Imum Coeli). In a way, this does show the potential of his birth to be that of an ending.

An important configuration in his map is the Uranus opp. Chiron at the bendings (square the nodes) of the chart. Chiron in the 7th shows "wounding" in the relationship sphere, while Uranus in the 1st can show an erratic and stubbornly independent personality. Chiron in Gemini may also show problems with communication and the proper relating with others, and in the 7th house, this becomes even more of an issue. This could show his various mental disorders and the hampering that this does on his ability to become independent, as well as his ability to take part in one-on-one intimate partnerships. This config. has a direct bearing on his life outcomes (contacts to his nodes) and may be the drivers to the completion of his destiny (SN in 10th/NN in 4th).

Apart from the "where one is coming from" view of the south node, there is also the more traditional view of where one finds difficulty. For this chart it is the 10th house and indeed, his reputation has been tarnished in most places as he is seen as a disruptive influence that others rather not deal with. As well, his employment options aren't great although he does currently have a job.

The Mars/Pluto square Moon shows up quite apparently in his personality as he has displayed explosive outbursts, abusive tendencies and he constantly needs to be placated as the family rather not find out if he will make good on his threats. While the effect on the mentality is obvious, I wonder what this configuration may say about the family and the wider legacy that he finds himself in (Mars/Pluto is on the 12th house cusp. Moon is general Significator of Mom & family). There is a much more speculative consideration that I have in mind that this man could have his ascendant at the 29th degree of Scorpio (which would mean that his father and him have the their angles in conjunction), but moonkat has implored me that his birthtime is accurate.

These are no means the complete analysis of these natal charts, and anyone can feel free to jump in with what they see as pertinent placements to the phenomena (and if they don't agree about these charts being the end, then they can state why). Persons can also introduce other charts that they think may be pertinent.

I am interested in every and all viewpoints and opinions on this aspect of family and generational astrology. You are also more than welcome to introduce any resources or authors who made a study of the ending of family lines, or anything that you think would be even remotely related or tangential to the topic at hand.

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Unread 07-07-2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Thank you so much, CT!

My dad says he might have second cousins (children of his 2 cousins?), but they have different last names and we don't have contact with them. Both of his cousins were born in the early 1930s and have passed away at this point.

To me, my father seems like a scribe. He has an amazing memory, can recall information he read in high school and what pages it came from. Right now, he's working on compiling all of the stories he knows from his family. He's also tracing a few generations back to see where they come from.

It really feels like my dad's side of the family is disassembling, breaking down, turning to dust.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 06:48 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

I know of a father-son couple that also signals the end of a family line, though the "end" part is more on the son's side than the father's (the son came from the father's second marriage). I'll see if I can get their info and upload their chart. The father's birth data is confirmed by his birth certificate, but the son's birth hour comes from his memory so it may not be that accurate.


So a bit off-topic, I have always been curious about Kat's brother's chart. I can see a severe lack of air in his chart. The only thing closet to an air placement is his Gemini Chiron in 7H, so Chiron and the 7H is quite the focus here. I do agree with CT that he may have problems with communication and the problem hinders him from getting a good relationship. With Chiron opposite Saturn, I think he is self-aware of this problem and over time prefers to just shut off completely out of self-doubt. Sometimes people who look "lazy" on the surface are just too self-defeated to even try.



And I think maybe the "golden child" treatment comes from Leo Moon and Aries Jupiter in 5H which is IC's and Asc's ruler. He may be conditioned since childhood that he is somehow special. Jupiter also trines Sun, further amplifying this belief. So when he was finally faced with a less-than-ideal world he just completely fell apart (fire signs aren't good at dealing with thwarted passion. Since he has a lot of Sag focus in 1H, the house of self, one his sense of self is shattered, it's pretty hard for him to pick up the pieces again (disillusioned idealist). I think this man is in a rather difficult position. With no air for an objective intellect, and too little water and earth to balance fire's overpowered passion, he will need a lot of conscious will-power to balance himself (but from what Kat said, it isn't happening soon


As for his job, I think he may have some problems, but "being a disruptive force"? His SN is in Virgo. I'm thinking this is more like he is so much of a perfectionist that he ends up accomplishing nothing. His NN is calling for him to just stop holding onto everything.
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Last edited by Gemini888; 07-08-2019 at 06:52 AM.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 10:38 AM
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Father's chart:
https://imgur.com/a/bQ5tm6X

Son's chart:
https://imgur.com/a/xrFSiBL

I will not disclose their info until you see them so that you can avoid bias in your interpretation. See if you can see anything peculiar in their charts.

Last edited by Gemini888; 07-08-2019 at 10:45 AM.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 10:43 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

I have no astrological research to add.

It has always struck me as odd that not only has my direct paternal family name reached its end, but the family names of the married daughters in it have too. [My father had one sister, who produced daughters.]

My only brother has two children. The son 'shot blanks', so has remained childless. The paternal name has ended.

I married into a family with two sons.
Grandfather was one of 4 boys, who remained childless or produced daughters.
Father's brother remained childless.
My son has daughters,
my husband's brother has a son with no children of his own.
Our direct branch of the paternal family name ends.

A sister married into a family with one son and 2 daughters.
She has only daughters.
Paternal Family name ends.

Other sister marries into a family with one son and daughter.
She has a son who produced two sons.
Neither have children.
(Hopeful that youngest, now 30, will have children through second partner.)

My eldest daughter married into a family where father was only male of 5 children!
He produced two sons.
Each son has daughters!
End of branch paternal family name.

Youngest daughter married into a family with two sons and daughters. Produced 8 children with FIVE sons, of which 3 hopefully carry their family name forward.... including our only grandson.

Hypothetically, I have wondered if the family (blood) strain has become weaker through the generations. Life's blood sees rulership of Mars (masculinity). This thread intrigued me to look.

Nothing is known of my paternal great grandfather, other than that 'he was in the theatre', a trait my father followed. Neither reached 'fame'.
Paternal grandfather married the fishmongerís daughter.
Dad and my brother were both very keen fishermen.
All involvement of Neptune?

Is it coincidence that Mars in Fire runs through 3 male generations after grandfatherís Mars in Pisces?

Yet even more, that Saturn-Neptune in harsh aspect is so generalised in the family charts that it seems to be a Ďfamily curseí.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 10:48 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Do you have any of their charts with you? There could be more subtle signs that we can only see through a complete chart.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 10:56 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

The 4th house symbolizes "heritage"...hence "the family name". Saturn is endings, Mars is cutting off; Neptune dissolves and Pluto extirpates, extinguishes.

First house is given name, fourth is family name.

Astrology shows "beginnings", primarily. I think the question lacks substance.

Last edited by greybeard; 07-08-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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Unread 07-08-2019, 11:13 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

@ G8

Thank you for adding the Dad-Son pair to the mix. Are you requesting for me to do a general reading of the birth-charts? I can't imagine why else you would mention avoiding bias otherwise.

@Frisiangal

Thanks for participating in this thread. Your recent family history sounds very similar to moonkat's case. I would also second Gemini's request of posting some charts, if you desire. This discussion now brings to mind recent statistics of declining birth rates in Europe, and how the 10 fastest declining populations are located in Eastern Europe. I wonder if one could see this downturn astrologically, both in the micro (with individual families like yours and moonkat's) and in the macro (like the 10 countries in Eastern Europe). I'm glad to have more persons contributing data if the inspiration takes them.

@greybeard

Yet, I've encountered studies where Jupiter was found active in death charts. I think its fine to explore new questions and periodically question the nice and pat astrological axioms that are easily recited. Could you explain more on why you think the questions the thread poses lack substance?
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Unread 07-09-2019, 02:02 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

I don't think the cosmos is much interested in the end of a line. It's a personal view.

We seem to be witnessing the Sixth Extinction in the "natural world" around us. In at least a couple of the previous extinction events about 95% of all species went extinct. The world turns.

Jupiter is often involved in death...nothing new there.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 02:12 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

@CT I want you to do the same analysis as Kat's charts above. Do you see anything that looks like a dysfunction?

All you need to know right now is the son can't produce any more children, and the reason isn't a genetic defect or something.

Last edited by Gemini888; 07-09-2019 at 02:15 AM.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 04:00 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I don't think the cosmos is much interested in the end of a line. It's a personal view.
Maybe
A different perspective
Maybe not.

I try not to speak for what the cosmos thinks or deems important; I'm not perpetually plugged into the ALL-MIND. Thank you for the clarification.

@G8

I will revisit the charts some other time since I am currently preoccupied.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:33 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I don't think the cosmos is much interested in the end of a line. It's a personal view.

We seem to be witnessing the Sixth Extinction in the "natural world" around us. In at least a couple of the previous extinction events about 95% of all species went extinct. The world turns.

Jupiter is often involved in death...nothing new there.
Why wouldn't the cosmos be influential in the end of a line?

I mean, if you think astrology works and can map out an individual's life, then doesn't the 'cosmos' have interest in the mechanics of ending a line, which consists of individuals? I just figure astrology can be personal (micro) as well as macro.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 10:00 AM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
@Frisiangal

Thanks for participating in this thread. Your recent family history sounds very similar to moonkat's case. I would also second Gemini's request of posting some charts, if you desire.
Charts would not be helpful as I only have dates to go on for the paternal lines. No significance can be given to angles, houses, nodes.
Astrological symbolism can be very assumptive and taken on supposition to make it fit.

A check was made out of interest on my part. I thought the recurring Mars/Fire, and Saturn-Neptune links with the 19th century birth dates were surprising enough.

Repetitive harsh Mars-Uranus links have made their appearance in the family charts for the 20th/21st century.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 04:08 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
I know of a father-son couple that also signals the end of a family line, though the "end" part is more on the son's side than the father's (the son came from the father's second marriage). I'll see if I can get their info and upload their chart. The father's birth data is confirmed by his birth certificate, but the son's birth hour comes from his memory so it may not be that accurate.
Does the son not want children or is he sterile? Just curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
So a bit off-topic, I have always been curious about Kat's brother's chart. I can see a severe lack of air in his chart. The only thing closet to an air placement is his Gemini Chiron in 7H, so Chiron and the 7H is quite the focus here. I do agree with CT that he may have problems with communication and the problem hinders him from getting a good relationship. With Chiron opposite Saturn, I think he is self-aware of this problem and over time prefers to just shut off completely out of self-doubt. Sometimes people who look "lazy" on the surface are just too self-defeated to even try.
He doesn't look lazy to me. He loses himself in violent video games and is absorbed and obsessed to the exclusion of material 'reality'. It's understandable though. The world has not been kind to him. He's been severely bullied by teachers and peers alike, rejected by the church continuously, though he believes fanatically in the Bible. He doesn't completely shut off due to self-doubt. It's more like he buries himself in delusion.

My parents have raised him to think he's completely normal and capable and that all he needs to do is 'catch up' to his peers. He's in his early 30s and asks my parents constantly when he can move out and be on his own and when he should start his career and get a girlfriend. They've already made a trust for him to live off for the rest of his life. They prefer he never live in a group home as the group home may have un-Christian values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
And I think maybe the "golden child" treatment comes from Leo Moon and Aries Jupiter in 5H which is IC's and Asc's ruler. He may be conditioned since childhood that he is somehow special. Jupiter also trines Sun, further amplifying this belief. So when he was finally faced with a less-than-ideal world he just completely fell apart (fire signs aren't good at dealing with thwarted passion. Since he has a lot of Sag focus in 1H, the house of self, one his sense of self is shattered, it's pretty hard for him to pick up the pieces again (disillusioned idealist). I think this man is in a rather difficult position. With no air for an objective intellect, and too little water and earth to balance fire's overpowered passion, he will need a lot of conscious will-power to balance himself (but from what Kat said, it isn't happening soon
I'm sorry if I made him sound as if he got 'golden child' treatment. That is not the case. He was treated as an invalid almost. His growth was stunted by the parenting style. Instead of having him tie his own shoes, he would demand my parents do it for him until he was in his mid-20s.

If they tried to have him do it, he'd throw a tantrum, complete with physical threats and emotional bullying. The occasions where he beat them were enough of a deterrent for my parents. Everything in the home has to do with placating him. It really is his way or the high way, but not in a doting sort of way, but more of a fearful-avoidant sort of way.

I wouldn't describe him as a disillusioned idealist, so much as a delusional idealist. Dream the impossible dream with no ounce of hope for achievement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
As for his job, I think he may have some problems, but "being a disruptive force"? His SN is in Virgo. I'm thinking this is more like he is so much of a perfectionist that he ends up accomplishing nothing. His NN is calling for him to just stop holding onto everything.
This is somewhat true. He does have an obsession with perfection. He's a talented artist. He paints Lord of the Rings miniatures with exact precision and they are 'perfect' renditions. The most minute of details is replicated with an OCD-like obsession. He frequently draws miniature soldiers as well in elaborate battle scenes. They are objectively impressive.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 04:58 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Your situation with your brother sounds similar to my dads childhood. He had an older sister who was born Ďchallengingí because the doctors or midwives made a mistake at birth. I remember my dad always being resentful of his sister and was overjoyed when he finally heard feedback from the doctors in her nursing home that most of her illness was learned behaviour from being spoiled. Unfortunately, my dad never seemed to grasp that she was still a victim to her circumstance and not just him being the victim. He always felt resentful of having to a caretaker and needing to take her out on dates he had.

Then my mum was ill for many years and once she died he made a promise not to look after anyone ever again, including his children. He then married a woman who needed taking care off, although it wasnít apparent at first, and he cared for her and still kept neglecting his children.

So itís like he had an emotional response to not feel tied to anyone and went the extreme path of sacrificing his duties as a father to be free, but didnít foresee he ran right back into a similar situation anyway. Iíve read itís usual for people to go to an extreme decision but it turns out not being any better (canít remember the psychological term for it).

Anyway, to mine and my siblings life, we are all fragmented. My dad had a son who hasnít had any children yet and doesnít want any. My dads sister didnít have any children. And my mum was an only child.

So we are seeing the end of a family as well, I donít intend to have any communication with my siblings because they projected heir pain on to me. Iím not seeing any marriage or children in my horizon even though keeping the family name would be down to my brother.

The keeping of a family name is irrelevant to the ending of family dysfunction and having a sibling who has a physical representation of what that it. With my siblings, Iím labelled the problem child, yet I feel Iíve been scapegoated and Iím certainly the only spiritual one who is able to look at the bigger picture. I was emotionally bullied and thatís led me to not want any more contact with my family.

My sister has her South node in the 3rd house of siblings conjunction to Neptune. This symbolises me perhaps.

Whatever is happening to your family and to mine there are similarities, the illness can be seen as symbolic or a representation, and we can see a sort of conclusion happening to generations of dysfunction.

I remember seeing your chart on the forum and how itís has north node in the 4th house (if I remember correctly), and so does your adopted brothers. And itís again relevant that youíre extremely psychic and can astral travel.

My dad was psychic and so are others in my family but itís not really been discussed or recognised outwardly I think because not only my family but the world is petrified of psychic abilities. Whatever is happening, dysfunction is becoming realised and has a chance to end. Families are symbolic, itís like we can have a chance to start again and witness the end of lifetimes of doing things wrong.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:05 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

It occurs to me though that we shouldnít just Ben talking about your brother or using him as a route to discuss your family but avoiding discussing yourself. If they spoil and placate him, then they do the same to you and give you everything you need, especially if they have money which it sounds like they do, yet they arenít giving everything emotionally, and so you donít give of yourself to others but keep yourself at a distance too, which needs to be unlearnt. Youíre an Aries after all, so what about being brave and not necessarily discussing how you feel publicly, but allowing yourself to do it privately and then slowly changing the dysfunction from the inside out.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Also, my moon is at 28 degrees in the 3rd house and is waning gibbous. Unfortunately I think this means there will be one more lifetime with my siblings (who I have remembered some past life history with) and then I will be free of them. Or fingers crossed this is the last and if Iím coming back then itís to start again. Most highly spiritual people I talk to say they think is their last life though so itís probably wishful thinking because we are all scared to come back and have to do this all over again.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:29 PM
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

I actually have North Node conjunct Pluto in the 10th. My South Node is in my 4th.

My adopted brother and I have a complex relationship. I try very hard not to demonize him into something he's not. I see how the label 'victim' and 'bully' can describe the same person, but neither the individual labels nor the combination of the two is fitting imo. Life isn't cut and dry or black and white.

In all honesty, I had wanted to focus on my father and the ending of his family more so than my brother and his issues.

When I was 14ish, my father sat me down and told me that my brother would never make a contribution to the world, that he didn't have the opportunities that I have. He said the burden of the ending of our family is on him and not us. It was a conversation I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

Life has been riddled with death. My dad might have some second cousins, but everyone he knew growing up is dead. My earliest memory is of my father coming home from his father's funeral and crying. The last of his relatives were dead by the time I was in my teens I think. Talking with my peers, this seems unusual. My paternal familial branch feels like a black hole. My father has told me how it's a heavy burden to have no extended family like how my mother has.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:37 PM
moonkat235 moonkat235 is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
It occurs to me though that we shouldnít just Ben talking about your brother or using him as a route to discuss your family but avoiding discussing yourself. If they spoil and placate him, then they do the same to you and give you everything you need, especially if they have money which it sounds like they do, yet they arenít giving everything emotionally, and so you donít give of yourself to others but keep yourself at a distance too, which needs to be unlearnt. Youíre an Aries after all, so what about being brave and not necessarily discussing how you feel publicly, but allowing yourself to do it privately and then slowly changing the dysfunction from the inside out.
I wanted to discuss my paternal familial branch rather than just myself. I'm more interested in how my father's chart shows the end of his line and the burden he carries as a result. I want the discussion to be organic and 'bigger picture' oriented rather than focused on just me.

Btw, I'm adopted anyway so it's not as if I could carry on my father's genetic legacy. If karma is a thing, then I probably carry karma from both my biological family as well as my adopted. I sort through things on my own and with people I trust generally, but CT and I felt the end of a genetic line could open a worthwhile discussion for other people.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:41 PM
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Ukpoohbear Ukpoohbear is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Wow so Pluto conjunct northnode will be very difficult for you but you have a lot of personal power. Youíre going to transform a lot. It seems like with the south node in 4th house could be why youíve been Ďadoptedí into this family, it certainly fits the conversation you had with your father about having opportunities in this world.

Of course I know the term victim and bully is not black and white. If I didnít know that, then I would be full of hatred for my family and I would still be depressed, and Iíve done a lot more introspection that being black and white gives me credit for. However, it is relevant that we are discussing your brother and not yourself as I have seen you do times before and you are also reluctant to post things yourself, which I have seen before.

I do think itís very precious you wanting to discover your dads family history though and is a beautiful way to connect with him deeper. You can move together the pieces of the dysfunction from generations back hopefully but building your relationship with him on an emotional level he is capable of is fab.

Apologies if you picked up on my resentment itís not personal but because I was the one always discussed, but that doesnít mean I still believe in victims and bullies and good v evil.

I donít have any cousins because my mum had no siblings and my dads sister was ill. My dad and mum moved away for their careers after they married and so even where I live I have no distant relatives, except the reputation of my mum and dad being teachers.

I as a result, I have never felt connected to reality. Just like MM and I guess so do you and your adopted brother and I guess your dad too because heís had so much death shoved in his face.

Whatever it is, we are being separated from the humdrum so we can see the bigger picture.

I too feel a great compassion for my dad yet felt so disconnected from him, even when I saw him. It sounds like your dads heartbreak has kept him from you too and I feel your love and sadness for him.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 07-09-2019 at 05:51 PM.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:43 PM
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Ukpoohbear Ukpoohbear is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Well my opinion about the genetic line is as Iíve shared. Whether or not itís what you and CT intended, I couldnít give a monkeys as to what I deem the real truth.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:48 PM
moonkat235 moonkat235 is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

What would you have me share about myself?

For my own clarification, can you recap your opinion on genetic lineage?
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:52 PM
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Ukpoohbear Ukpoohbear is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Youíre doing it again, trying to put it on me. I didnít say you need to talk about yourself publicly but allow yourself to do it privately and I think itís a shame youíre mostly talking about your brother and not yourself.

If you need to recap then read what Iíve written. Over and out.
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Unread 07-09-2019, 05:59 PM
moonkat235 moonkat235 is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Youíre doing it again, trying to put it on me. I didnít say you need to talk about yourself publicly but allow yourself to do it privately and I think itís a shame youíre mostly talking about your brother and not yourself.

If you need to recap then read what Iíve written. Over and out.
I feel there has been a misunderstanding. It was not my intention to put something on you. I do a lot of thinking privately and with people I trust, which by nature of privacy other people do not see. I appreciate your perspective, even though I didn't quite grasp the core of what you're saying. I can re-read and see if anything resonates.

I'm genuinely confused as to why it is a shame I'm discussing my brother. He's an interesting person and my complex relationship with him is something I grapple with continuously. I tend to view my perception of others as projections of myself, so when I discuss someone else, I think I gain new insights into who I am.

Either way, I was attempting to explore lineage as a means of insight and familial healing. I guess it wasn't perceived that way...
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Unread 07-09-2019, 06:05 PM
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Ukpoohbear Ukpoohbear is offline
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Re: Astrology - The end of a genetic line?

Itís only a shame because Iíve seen it as a pattern. Itís good you talk about things with people you trust but if youíre publicly discussing people more than what you discuss about yourself, then thereís an issue. Itís also similar to not wanting to post things yourself, which Iíve seen before, so itís also a pattern and Iíve suggested itís to do with your situation with your family. Itís part of the dysfunction which is relevant to family lineage you were discussing (because itís learnt behaviour).

My view point basically is that the ending of family lineage has to do with karmic responsibility and awakening. I discussed chart details of that but I do see the discussion of talking about the end of family lineage as quite flat, because why does it matter? My posts described the only real reason why it does matter, which is to end family dysfunction.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 07-09-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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