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  #1  
Unread 09-04-2008, 11:35 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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Serious astrology

I have been reading some posts by Theo, and have been impressed by his good sense regarding astrology. He mentions that some astrologers use very dubious methods for making predictions, like confusing their wishes with future trends. The question is, how can we determine a good astrologer from a bad one?

P.S. My knowledge of astrology is basically null, as I am learning mostly what the symbols mean.


Last edited by aquarius7000; 09-05-2008 at 02:43 AM. Reason: Thread moved here as seeking general recommendations on how to distinguish between good and bad astrologers.
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  #2  
Unread 09-05-2008, 02:12 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I have been reading some posts by Theo, and have been impressed by his good sense regarding astrology. He mentions that some astrologers use very dubious methods for making predictions, like confusing their wishes with future trends. The question is, how can we determine a good astrologer from a bad one?

P.S. My knowledge of astrology is basically null, as I am learning mostly what the symbols mean.
Thanks Michael. To elaborate just a bit on this... For some years I've been dismayed to find a kind of "humanism" invading astrology over the past 30 years. It's waning now, but has done its damage to astrology in my view.

Because of the popularity of Astrology, I believe that there have been certain groups who, by design, or accident, have damaged astrological forecasting with a too heavy emphasis on psychology, rather than on TIME, and the effects on the whole human experience.

Perhaps it was my early training as a astrometeorologist that had the most benefit to my classical astrological training, but being able to forecast the climate and weather months and years in advance applying astrological methods greatly helped me to read natal, progressed and mundane charts over the years.

I don't approve of using techniques of astrology as a "one-size fits all" method, and I've been greatly saddened by the lack of proper astrological use, although there are some who apply astrology in a more holistic manner that does help forecasting.

Still, there are many people who use astrology as a game, and I highly disapprove of this because it damages the profession and makes work for serious professional astrologers that much more difficult.

I began studying astrology at the age of 10, and started with the classics (what is called traditional astrology) and long-range weather forecasting. My teachers believed that if one could accurately forecast advance climate and weather using astrological principles, then one could forecast many other kinds of events for clients. This worked for me over the years. Still, I did not begin forecasting for clients until after the age of 30, and I already had 20 years of study under my belt.

Perhaps I was fortunate, as I know some come to astrology late in life, or in parts over the years, as there are few formal training centers for astrologers in the world. I've taught astrology, and continue to do so, but I am dismayed by the rush of some to forecast immediately when they don't have good rates of success using some of the basics. The emergence of astrology software has also allowed many to dismiss the hard work of direct observation of the skies, and writing charts by hand, which is difficult, but required training for the most serious of astrology students.

I start with the basics and also teach weather forecasting, which is a great help to students, as they can see the effects in the real world with advanced weather forecasting. It makes for a much more accurate astrologer to be able to forecast the weather beyond the conventional five-days, but months, and even years in advance using astrological principles.

One of the rules of serious astrology is to not allow one's personal opinions to cloud one's judgment of transits. This is a key rule because the astrologer must be open to seeing what is there in the chart, and not what they want to see. It would be akin to seeing heavy snows, etc., in a weather chart, but wanting to see sunny skies and warm temperatures because that is what you desire. it is inappropriate for any astrologer to confuse what is dictated by the transits with their own personal desires.

I follow this rule, and it works. It is clear, concise, and has made me a better astrologer for the effort. It makes me a much forecaster for my clients who depend on accuracy to plan whatever direction they want their personal and professional lives to head towards.
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  #3  
Unread 09-05-2008, 03:02 AM
kronos kronos is offline
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Re: Serious astrology

I'm interested in weather patterns but have until now only vaguely considered observing the effects of transits on my local weather or weather at the global level for that matter. I have been putting so much energy into trying to comprehend the psychological side of astrology that I have overlooked this. Theo, I found your blogspot, so i'll be learning more.
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  #4  
Unread 09-05-2008, 03:47 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

A good way to test an astrologer's predictive ability is to have him/her point out incidents or exceptional cycles in your past. If the astrologer can't do that without hints from you then there's no reason to believe they'll be accurate about your future.
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  #5  
Unread 09-05-2008, 05:43 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

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Originally Posted by Spin
A good way to test an astrologer's predictive ability is to have him/her point out incidents or exceptional cycles in your past. If the astrologer can't do that without hints from you then there's no reason to believe they'll be accurate about your future.
Yes, that is one way, which is too easy for me, because it is a matter of looking at progressions. The real problem is experience. Many people lack astrological experience, yet because of the unique nature and draw of astrology get into the science without being properly vetted. A good student always needs a master astrologer.
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  #6  
Unread 09-05-2008, 05:47 AM
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Lightbulb Serious Astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronos
I'm interested in weather patterns but have until now only vaguely considered observing the effects of transits on my local weather or weather at the global level for that matter. I have been putting so much energy into trying to comprehend the psychological side of astrology that I have overlooked this. Theo, I found your blogspot, so i'll be learning more.
Hi Kronos, that's a very good attitude to take. Good for you! If you will learn Astrometeorology, I can gurantee that you will become an excellent astrologer. You will be also able to dismiss skeptics with proof of the scientific validity of astrology by forecasting the weather in advance ~ in the real world. And, since you will be able to forecast "outer plane weather" you will also be able forecast "inner plane weather" for clients.

I've written some articles in the past on weather forecasting. Here is one I wrote in 2006 ~

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewto...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

This should help you to get started. I have more to post for you if you would like to get started. Cheers!

Last edited by Theo; 09-05-2008 at 06:24 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 09-05-2008, 09:13 AM
Spin Spin is offline
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Re: Serious astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo
Yes, that is one way, which is too easy for me, because it is a matter of looking at progressions. The real problem is experience. Many people lack astrological experience, yet because of the unique nature and draw of astrology get into the science without being properly vetted. A good student always needs a master astrologer.
I was very lucky to train with a knowledgeable and experienced astrologer. After an impressive reading by him, I kept calling, asking when he'd be teaching a class and then one day he told me his assistant had quit and to bring over my chart for an interview. I didn't have to say a word while he looked over my chart, guess he decided we were harmonious (he's a capricorn with moon in pisces and I'm a pisces with leo moon). And from that day on, for several years I calculated all his charts--he saw at least 5 clients a day, five days a week. I did all the mathematical grunge work since it was before computers. And I sat in on many consultations after he gained permission from his clients, saying I was his assistant. Very valuable experience.

But I think a person who has natural ability and understands the astrological alphabet can excel if they're constantly examining charts of friends, family and anyone who will provide a birth time.
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  #8  
Unread 09-05-2008, 11:10 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

I can see the point of the 'humanistic' approach from one point of view. I know it began with Dane Rudhyar, who made the famous statement that 'events don't happen to people, nearly as much as people happen to events, in other words, pointing out that a transit may be experienced as difficult or easy, depending in your level of awareness.

And who in all honesty, does want to feel 'fated' or 'doomed' in any traditional sense to, say, being unlucky in love, to give an example? The promise of this 'psychological' approach, seized enthusiastically by Liz Greene and all hose other post-Rudhyar enthusiasts, is that free will and some freedom from whatever components in your astrological makeup that may prevent you from finding happiness in love, can either be transcended or taken to another, more inclusive level of awareness.

Anybody here who may be unlucky in love at any point in their lives, let us say with a hard aspect between Venus and Saturn, may agree with that.

The trouble is, that the humanistic approach in the end may have its limitations too. For example in the end, I found the humanist preoccupation with discovering the Holy Grail of the great Self on high to be ultimately, potentially a very negative exercise which could lead to a great deal of self-obsession on the one hand and other forms of far less healthier splittings into what might be deemed as 'self' or not 'self' on the other. One or two of R D Laing's earlier books is fuill of case histories of some of the casualties of this kind of 'humanistic' astrology, which takes it origins from the theosophists and the esotericists - but that, maybe, is anoher story.

Rudhyar apparently actually went on to say that if an apple falls on our head, then we must take the 'blame' as we possess a whole lot more sentience than the apple, which to my mind at least, implies a lot of the worst of another kind of set of excesses within the humanistic movement. Most human beings are not actually gods and there may well be economic forces as well as meteorological ones (ask anyone in the path of a hurricane or tornado, or even, forthat matter, in the trail of a good-old fashioned thunderstorm in Central Europe, to say nothing of looming credit crunches and global slumps) that may prove to be a lot bigger than we are. Up to a point we may be able to create our own reality at interview time and hopefuly get hired, but to say that we are responsible for everything else that happens to us still smacks of hubris and magical thinking to me.

A while back, I came across someone on a different forum who was equally critical of humanistic approaches, particularly those which take generalised and untested notions and applied them without really checking to see how founded they were in actual astrological prediction.

I suppose, what I am looking for is the answer to the question 'what is astrology for?' - particulerly after a recent encounter with someone who told me that surely there is 'bad karma' in the whole exercise of giving any kind of advice or guidance in an astrological session? What should be the good of it?

As said, I found myself repelled by the 'one size fits all' approach of a lot of the 'psychobabble' side of 'modern' too, particularly when this means loking no further than a sun-sign column. What can a more traditional approach offer, the horary offer, that the the humanistic approach can't?

Please expand.

Last edited by Nexus7; 09-06-2008 at 01:28 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 09-05-2008, 11:28 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

The ongoing argument with the sceptics is another major question mark at the moment, as someone pointed out.

Theo, I just looked at your blog.

Two things - I remember coming across a book by Arnold Lieber called The Lunar Effect, though this does not go into the weather quite so much. Aparently it has now been debunked, most of it.

I see you made a prediction involving Saturn in Aquarius and a 'flu epidemic.

Reminds me of similar prediction made whent here was once a triple conjunction between Mars, Jupiter and Saturn in Aquarius. (Neptune was in Aquarius too, but not involved with the conjunction).

It was during a time of great meteorological upheavals. It certainly got much colder in the UK. An epidemic - or should that be pandemic - took place, where the very air (Aquarius) became poisoned and the disease attacked the whole circulatory system, poisoning it, too (Aquarius again).

The disease was the Black Death, which kills by poisoning the blood, through scepticeamia and spread, at its most virulent, via air droplets.

Nothing wrong with the estrapolations taken from tropical ephemerises with these predictions, anyway.
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  #10  
Unread 09-06-2008, 12:15 AM
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Re: Serious astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus7
I can see the point of the 'humanistic' approach from one point of view. I know it began with Dane Rudhyar, who made the famous statement that 'events don't happne to people, nealry as much as people happen to events, in other words, pointing out that a transit may be expereinced as difficul or easy, depending in your level of awareness.

And who in all honesty, does want to feel 'fated' or 'doomed' in any traditional sense to, say, being unlucky in love, to give an example? The promise of this 'psychological' approach, seized enthusiastically by Liz Greene and all hose other post-Rudhyar enthusiasts, is that free will and some freedom from whatever components in your astrological makeup that may prevent you from finding happiness in love, can either be transcended or taken to another, more inclusive level of awareness.

Anybody here who may be unlucky in love at any point in their lives, let us say with a hard aspect between Venus and Saturn, may agree with that.

The trouble is, that the humanistic approach in the end may have its limitations too. For example in the end, I found the humanist preoccupation with discovering the Holy Grail of the great Self on high to be ultimately, potentially a very negative exercise which could lead to a great deal of self-obsession on the one hand and other forms of far less healthier splittings into what might be deemed as 'self' or not 'self' on the other. One or two of R D Laing's earlier books is fuill of case histories of some of the casualties of this kind of 'humanistic' astrology, which takes it origins from the theosophists and the esotericists - but that, maybe, is anoher story.

Rudhyar apparently actually went on to say that if an apple falls on our head, then we must take the 'blame' as we possess a whole lot more sentience than the apple, which to my mind at least, implies a lot of the worst of another kind of set of excesses within the humanistic movement. Most human beings are not actually gods and there may well be economic forces as well as meteorological ones (ask anyone in the path of a hurricane or tornado, or even, forthat matter, in the trail of a good-old fashioned thunderstorm in Central Europe, to say nothing of looming credit crunches and global slumps) that may prove to be a lot bigger than we are. Up to a point we may be able to create our own reality at interview time and hopefuly get hired, but to say that we are responsible for everything else that happens to us still smacks of hubris and magical thinking to me.

A while back, I came across someone on a different forum who was equally critical of humanistic approaches, particularly those which take generalised and untested notions and applied them without really checking to see how founded they were in actual astrological prediction.

I suppose, what I am looking for is the answer to the question 'what is astrology for?' - particulerly after a recent encounter with someone who told me that surely there is 'bad karma' in the whole exercise of giving any kind of advice or guidance in an astrological session? What should be the good of it?

As said, I found myself repelled by the 'one size fits all' approach of a lot of the 'psychobabble' side of 'modern' too, particularly when this means loking no further than a sun-sign column. What can a more traditional approach offer, the horary offer, that the the humanistic approach can't?

Please expand.
What is Astrology for? That usually is the question, isn't it? Astrology is mainly TIME itself, and is the way God regulates all creation ~ through the mathematical motions of the stars, our Sun, the planets and the Moon. It is one giant clock, and the clock is ticking....

There are mainly two kinds of people in the world ~ they who cannot see, and those who can see. This means that those who have knowledge of astrology are aware of transits, but within that group, some or more aware, and some are less. There's a saying that goes, "Minds are like parachutes. They only work when open." The transits, when known in full by a person (s) means one can control and navigate their lives by this knowledge. Those who do not know what time is, cannot, and are "controlled" and influenced by the transits, substituting their free will to that of the transits, as they affect them, and others, to them.

For instance, most of the people of the world use a false calendar. Any serious, true astrologer knows that the first month of the new starts in mid-March ~ not on January 1st. However, people everywhere, for the most part, do not even know this, even though some months of the year clearly spell out which month it is ~

March - 1st month (0-Aries, equinox)
April - 2nd month
May - 3rd month
June - 4th month (0-Cancer, solstice)
July - 5th month
August - 6th month
September - 7th month (Sept = number 7) (0-Libra, equinox)
October - 8th month (Oct = number 8)
November - 9 month (Nov = number 9)
December - 10th month - (Dec means number 10) (0-Capricorn, solstice)
January 11th month (face of Janus looking both ways, number 11)
February - 12th month

This in itself proves that most people do not have the basics of even time itself in its most primative form ~ the sequence of the months and seasons of the year, so it is no wonder that most people have little clues as to what Astrology is in their own world.

There is no "bad karma" in giving astrological advice, not from a real astrologer. The focus only on psychology greatly limits astrological practice, since most of what a astrologer can tell a person usually is a focus on common sense and the basics of time ~ like telling the correct months from the false months. Most clients do not even know the day of the week they were born on, much less their own lunar position.

The astrologer is as much teacher, as life coach, and first must master the knowledge & usage of global transits. The astrologer MUST acknolwedge that most people they encounter are living with blindfolds on, and "believe" that they can "see" when they are truly blind.

The astrologer must be tough-skinned, and consistent in this knowledge. This means working the client from this blinded life to a life of having eyes open, and removing the blindfold for good. This is very difficult because most of the world supports being blinded, just by the sheer number of ignorants in the world. History is replete with the actions of fools who cannot see the open skies above them, nor read the language that speaks to them in the natural world.

In the times of Europe's Middle Ages, one can find prints of astrologers talking to one another with their eyes open, while they are surrounded by people blindfolded, smiling, and who are chasing rabbits daily. This depicts the world we inhabit, and it is the astrologer's strict duty to attempt to help remove the blindfolds of the others; however, this cannot be accomplished fully without the free will of the blindfolded person, who is unaware that they are, indeed ~ blind.

Humanists who have invaded astrology over the past 30 years have attempted to enter astrology via the belief that humans can "see." Traditionalists maintain that humans cannot see, and prove it with simple tests of knowledge. Psychological profiling is useless unless the person is first "freed" from the blindfold. Only then can healing begin. It is much like having an alcoholic first "admit" to being one BEFORE therapy can start. In much the same way, a person has to be made to see that they are "blind" to the world around them (Transits) before they can fully be placed on the rroad towards healing through knowledge, in this case, learning to "preact" to the world, rather than "react" ~ which is why the Earth has such a horrible history to begin with. Lack of knowledge of time itself ~ transits ~ is the prime cause of ignorance, and from ignorance comes all manner of disruption and mischief that makes for chaos.

The transits are about order, and regulation of time. All things are regulated by God ~ and it is this that the humanist does not accept. Any astrologer that does not believe in God is not a astrologer. Why? Because in order to be an astrologer, one must accept that God The Creator regulates ALL THINGS and this means the God created the universe, and the transits, which are the reasons for astrology itself ~ to read the Will of God and to transmist this will to the world via those trained to "read" this celestial language.

Humanism, by its very nature, is anti-astrology. Therefore, it is curious that those humanists who seek to practice astrology should also deny God, who created the stars, and planets, and who regulates all things via the transits. Why would a humanist choose to practice THE celestial science, and yet manage to deny the existance of God? Curious, it is not?

Last edited by Theo; 09-06-2008 at 12:21 AM.
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