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View Poll Results: Which Astrology do you use Modern or Traditional?
Traditional Astrology 5 50.00%
Modern Astrology 5 50.00%
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  #1  
Unread 01-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

This has been conflicting me, I am still new to astrology; now I am hearing about traditional astrology and whole house system. I am conflicted to find out if my sun is really 11th or 12th. 12th house in traditional astrology sounds demonic...... also my mercury would move from 12 to 1st house....... I don't know how to decide I can relate to any one of these when I read the descriptions? Any advice or any similar issues? Please share...
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:32 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Well a 12th House Sun is a Bad placement, but a 1st House Mercury is a +, since it is Mercury's house of joy (though Mercury is in Fall and in Leo and Retro. and the Sun is Peregrine). It seems that either house system makes a 'good' and a 'bad' planet, which in this case, are the Sun and Mercury.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal. I find people who are too negative or tell you negative things are really just manipulative. I find the 12th house descriptions in traditional, manipulative. I don't want horrible placements. Does 6th house mars Capricorn mean my teeth will fall out?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Don't know, babe. I have one of those charts that is virtually the same in both house systems, so I can't personally comment. I do find that looking at trad house rulers is very useful. That changes my 7th house ruler to jupiter not neptune and my jupiter is powerful....and i've been lucky to find my true love in this lifetime. So maybe take a look at rulerships...hopefully someone will come along and explain how it could ever make sense that you are a 12th house sun.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:41 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal.
Nah not intimadated, just astonished! Both your Sun and Mercury, one way or another are badly placed. Though Whole Signs, may be saving your Mercury, and Placidus, your Sun......which do you value more?

I have Jupiter and Venus in the 12th Libra, so I know what it mean to have planets in the 12th.....nothing.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:50 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

if it means nothing why is it bad, thanks twelth you are blessed indeed so is he hehehe I value all my planets.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
Nah not intimadated, just astonished! Both your Sun and Mercury, one way or another are badly placed. Though Whole Signs, may be saving your Mercury, and Placidus, your Sun......which do you value more?

I have Jupiter and Venus in the 12th Libra, so I know what it mean to have planets in the 12th.....nothing.
Well, venus and jup in the 12th are arguably the "easy" ones to have there...more like good karma protection for you than anything else.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Cause one way or another your Sun is Peregrine and (would be) in the 12th

While your Mercury is Fall and Retro. ( and again, would be in the 12th).

Which agai raises the question, which do you value the most? Though it doesn't matter, since one cannot choose a house system (technically they can) to soot their averages.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:54 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

SO does that mean I suck at life? Yes this is making me mellow dramatic
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:56 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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SO does that mean I suck at life? Yes this is making me mellow dramatic
Nah, it just means you have sucky placements (if you take astrology that seriously lol)
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Unread 01-17-2012, 05:24 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Be sure to see where progressions have moved your planets. 12th house sun at birth can be an angular sun later on.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:31 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Hmm interesting point moog
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:43 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Hmm I dunno equal house, what that would change... yes I do have a certain joie de vie. I try to make everything I do fun.
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:44 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal. I find people who are too negative or tell you negative things are really just manipulative. I find the 12th house descriptions in traditional, manipulative. I don't want horrible placements. Does 6th house mars Capricorn mean my teeth will fall out?
dang lady, I just realized you have a lot of retrograde planets. :P

I dunno, a 12th house Sun doesn't HAVE to be worse than 11th. I read a great astro article about the 11th house, which says it's basically a "complicated place." It's a long read, but I'd recommend at least the second half: http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgelevhouse_e.htm

....But if we can pick and choose between the two systems, I'd take 1st house Merc and 11th house Sun.

I had this same revelation last week when I did my whole house chart and realized my Mercury moved from the second to the third house. Now I'm feeling overprotective about my confused little lamb.

EDIT: Wait, is whole house different than equal house? Now I'm truly confused.
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Last edited by saturnsayshi; 01-17-2012 at 06:45 PM. Reason: I'm a spazz
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:45 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Progressions are silly. Your planets don't change signs because you've been alive long enough.

12th House is just a place where planets don't get expressed properly. They're figuratively "imprisoned." It's not bad any more than having Mars in Virgo is bad. It's just a part of your personality.

It all comes down to how you perceive your planets as acting. Is your Sun inhibited? Or is your Mercury? It's a tough call for you, because both planets, in any case, are badly dignified. A peregrine Sun and a retrograde Mercury (not in fall). ***** either way. Look to the rest of your chart. Is Mars in 5th or 6th? Is Saturn in 4th or 5th?

Edit: Equal sign is different from whole sign. Equal is easy, each house is just 30 degrees starting from the AC. Whole sign is even easier, each sign is a house starting from the sign with the AC in it.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:50 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Yes either way I am full of retrogrades! My moon venus stay first either way so thats ok I guess.............. What does retograde in traditional mean again? So msg my cancerian qualities are dulled down or hidden deep within me?
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It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:51 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
This has been conflicting me, I am still new to astrology; now I am hearing about traditional astrology and whole house system. I am conflicted to find out if my sun is really 11th or 12th. 12th house in traditional astrology sounds demonic...... also my mercury would move from 12 to 1st house....... I don't know how to decide I can relate to any one of these when I read the descriptions? Any advice or any similar issues? Please share...
I think it is valuable to look at both types of placements. For one thing, if your sun is in the 11th house in a quadrant system such as Placidus, it will progress into the 12th house. Ditto for your Mercury.

I view the issue of houses a bit like taking a snapshot of somebody. If I photograph you in "frontal" position, I will get a good impression of what you look like. If I photograph you in profile, it will still resember your first picture, but it will also look different.

Houses work like that. So my best recommendation is that you look at different houses (Astrodienst has quite a few to choose from) and read up on planets in houses. Also think about planets progressing and getting pinged by transiting planets. Eventually you will find the best fit.

If I really want to spend a lot of time with a chart, I will run it using different house systems. Where your planets stay in the same house regardless, you know you've got something.

The whole signs house discussion, moreover, really applies to the early period of Hellenistic astrology. By late antiquity, astrologers developed and used a range of quadrant house systems. These developed further, into the Renaissance period. Placidus was a traditional astrologer! You might also look up the reasons why each of these systems was developed, and find one that makes sense to you. I believe wikipedia has entires on the different house systems and how and why they were constructed.

Also, there is no reason why you couldn't use whole-signs with a modern, less doom-and-gloom interpretation of 12th house meanings!
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:55 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Very very interesting and educated response waybread, I am pleased with this thank you. Also, if I want to continue studying astrology I would like to focus on one system to start. I can get really scattered and flighty with things so I need to stay focused then branch out! I do believe I need more research on the houses instead of getting caught up in the negatives and look at them more rationally, I need to keep my ego out of it. I am protective of my precious chart!
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi

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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Yes either way I am full of retrogrades! My moon venus stay first either way so thats ok I guess.............. What does retograde in traditional mean again? So msg my cancerian qualities are dulled down or hidden deep within me?
Not necessarily dulled down or deeply hidden. Think instead of being a clam. You still have the traits, but they're guarded from others with a heavy, thick shell that only you can open.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

BUT isn't that all cancer suns in general MSO?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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BUT isn't that all cancer suns in general MSO?
Do you think you're a typical Cancer Sun?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:03 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Define typical cancer sun/ please.
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:04 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Very very interesting and educated response waybread, I am pleased with this thank you. Also, if I want to continue studying astrology I would like to focus on one system to start. I can get really scattered and flighty with things so I need to stay focused then branch out! I do believe I need more research on the houses instead of getting caught up in the negatives and look at them more rationally, I need to keep my ego out of it. I am protective of my precious chart!
Whole signs system is cra-p. I acknowledge more the equal house system.

I have the same problem , my Sun,Mars and Venus change in another house when I change the house system from Placidus to equal or Koch! I hate that! I don't like changes on something that personal a.k.a. the personal planets.

Last edited by Choe; 01-17-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:05 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Define typical cancer sun/ please.
I'll bet you would seem more Cancery in person. Online, Venus and Moon in Leo come out to play.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:06 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Cancer Sun
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