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  #26  
Unread 05-04-2010, 08:02 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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CC -

Alan Leo and John Willner, and perhaps other astrologers, were aware of the relationship of Sun-Moon-Uranus-Asc. It is mentioned in the table of contents of one of Leo's books. I had the chance to buy it at a used book store a several years ago and when I went back it was gone. Willner kept the formulas secret because they were given to him with that condition.
Then the SEARCH IS ON!

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Unread 05-04-2010, 08:06 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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CC -

Alan Leo and John Willner, and perhaps other astrologers, were aware of the relationship of Sun-Moon-Uranus-Asc. It is mentioned in the table of contents of one of Leo's books. I had the chance to buy it at a used book store a several years ago and when I went back it was gone. Willner kept the formulas secret because they were given to him with that condition.
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I can tell you without reservation that the so-called "first breath" theory does not give consistently reliable natal chart results. It isn't that it is "wrong," as much as it was made by those who were only viewing "birth" through linear eyes boxed in by matter, speculating metaphysically instead of getting information from real experience. We have Near Death Experiencers now who can tell us what they experienced in death, a kind of birth in reverse.
I'm in full agreement with that statement.
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Unread 05-04-2010, 08:13 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

I seem to have forgotten how pointless it is to say anything regarding house systems unless I first preface treatment of the Asc.

I do not use physical birth time Ascendants, nor does any INCARN Astrologer. Incarn astrology calculates Asc with the birth time (if there is a reliable one) only as a starting place, but determined by the algorithms known by Alan Leo, John Willner, Fred Bickum, which involve the use of the Sun, Moon, Uranus to determine what are essentially the inter-dimensional doorways through which a person can "enter" this dimension. Astrologers who have known these algorithms have not shared them with others. They are available now to everyone in the form of the INCARN software. [ INCARN2 for windows www.sbastro.com ]

Seems a little weird "big secret to be had in software" what's your take on this Kannon?

Or is macthebull perhaps better, pic sure looks like you.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...F64C0D96062107

All mixed up CC.
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Last edited by Cosmiccradle; 05-04-2010 at 12:19 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 05-04-2010, 08:45 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

This reminds me a bit of what I posted regarding the "3 sealings" and "blood-line karma" concepts, and also a little bit regarding the "Past Life Chart" concept. However, in the esoteric tradition from which these ideas spring, the nodes are regarded as the principle doorways, and also certain stars.
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  #30  
Unread 05-06-2010, 02:59 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

[B]Seems a little weird "big secret to be had in software" what's your take on this Kannon?

Or is macthebull perhaps better, pic sure looks like you.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...F64C0D96062107

All mixed up CC.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't like the secrecy either. Whatever the reasons were originally, I don't think they are relevant any longer. I don't view astrology as "occult." To me it is part of nature, and while there may be deeper or more 'esoteric' aspects of it, I see it as something Universal that should be shared. I'm not mathematically inclined at all, so I've had to learn a roundabout method of roughly back-engineering accurate Ascendants.

Each birth chart holds all of its own secrets, so if you study it in reference to the person it belongs to then you can unlock these things.

What I learned is that by the time a person is a 30-40 year-old adult, they've experienced enough (probably even by age 21 or so) to reveal their correct Asc by transits of Uranus angular to the correct Asc. These angular Uranus transits quicken, or at least, disrupt the normal rhythm and patterns of the person's life so that things abnormal or unusual occur during about a 2-year period during the transit. So I look for this during an initial client intake. It is often actually easy to arrive at. A two year period of disturbance in the stability of relationships/work/home life. Very often when you have t.Uranus square the (correct) Asc it will be preceded or followed by a conjunction or opposition to the (correct) MC, giving further clues to the correct Asc.

Also helpful are angular transits by Jupiter. This one is how I discovered my mom's correct Asc. She had no idea what time of day she was born and no document or anyone with any memory of the timing of the event. After proper study of the Asc Signs, it was obvious Aries is hers. After looking at dates of moves (via dad's memory and mine) while I was growing up a pattern emerged. She is the family leader, the impetus of decision-making. On dates of moves Jupiter and/or Uranus were in mid-late degree areas, especially Cardinal signs. I've since seen a similar pattern that allows me to adjust the charts of others.

To narrow down the correct degree you'll have to rely on transits by quicker moving planets, Sun, Mercury, Moon, Mars. These are the planets that time actions to within 1* or so. See Planets in Transit by Robert Hand and really study the Rules for Transit Timing. I've seen some astrologers I know here online who don't and they leap to conclusions with errant rectifications as a result. (Even R. Hand uses an incorrect birth chart for Nixon, included in book. Nixon's correct AS = 19CAN52 with t.Pluto opp n.MC at the time of his resignation).

So I don't need the secret Incarn formulas. I've learned to make adjustments to find the Asc degree using Transits for significant life events, and to find tune that using secondary progressions.

So while I think some of the others here have actually answered the question better - in terms of astrological concepts - I find the only answer that matters is to the question that matters, which is, "What were the birth chart specifics (Asc, MC) of this specific person, so that I can understand and interpret their original intentions/history before incarnating?"

That question I can answer. There is no reliable formula (outside the "secret" ones I mentioned) or time interval that applies to everyone.
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Last edited by Kannon; 05-06-2010 at 03:09 AM. Reason: left out key phrase
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  #31  
Unread 05-06-2010, 03:00 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

And yes, macthebull is me on myspace. That was my old yahoo ID as well.
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  #32  
Unread 05-17-2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

This is an extremely interesting thread! I am glad to see other astrologers (such as Cosmiccradle) employing the INCARN technology and methods of horoscope verification and total functionality. I would like to know more about what specific books by Alan Leo mentioned the Sun-Moon-ASC relationship to the precise moment horoscope elements become "fixed" in a horoscope. (Willner mentions a connection among the Sun-Moon-Uranus.)

I was fortunate enough to get to know John Willner for a short time before he died (although, through e-mail correspondence - not in person) and to purchase the program from Fred Bickum (updated as Incarn2) shortly thereafter. I also agree that this method needs to be explicity known, because I think it will help so many astrologers (and the astrological community as a whole) to raise astrology to the standard of precision and practical application to which it is highly capable (and attainable).

The only other thing that I know plays a role in the moment cosmic elements become fixed in a horoscope - other than the Sun-Moon-Uranus connection - is the zodiacal signs of Cancer and Sagittarius (which have a correlation to the Pineal and Pituitary glands, respectively, in the human body).

If anyone has more insights into this I'd be very much interested in hearing more.

Shaun
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  #33  
Unread 05-18-2010, 08:03 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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Originally Posted by Astro-Intuitive View Post
This is an extremely interesting thread! I am glad to see other astrologers (such as Cosmiccradle) employing the INCARN technology and methods of horoscope verification and total functionality. I would like to know more about what specific books by Alan Leo mentioned the Sun-Moon-ASC relationship to the precise moment horoscope elements become "fixed" in a horoscope. (Willner mentions a connection among the Sun-Moon-Uranus.)

I was fortunate enough to get to know John Willner for a short time before he died (although, through e-mail correspondence - not in person) and to purchase the program from Fred Bickum (updated as Incarn2) shortly thereafter. I also agree that this method needs to be explicity known, because I think it will help so many astrologers (and the astrological community as a whole) to raise astrology to the standard of precision and practical application to which it is highly capable (and attainable).

The only other thing that I know plays a role in the moment cosmic elements become fixed in a horoscope - other than the Sun-Moon-Uranus connection - is the zodiacal signs of Cancer and Sagittarius (which have a correlation to the Pineal and Pituitary glands, respectively, in the human body).

If anyone has more insights into this I'd be very much interested in hearing more.

Shaun
Although the Sun-Moon-Uranus has already been mentioned before, someone is yet to say how this contact looks like or takes place in the horoscope. As for the Sun-Moon-ASC what you mention sounds like the Truitine of Hermes, or at least the Moon-Asc part.
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  #34  
Unread 05-18-2010, 11:08 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

this is fascinating.

my niece was born premature - 2 months. she has mainly fire but does have some water.her mother was involved in a car accident which brought on the labour.

however this thread then also got me thinking about spirits and death! I think there is a link. I guess we are less comfortable with this side of the spirit leaving the body.

my dad died July 1996 at the time Sun in cancer etc - I need to check the chart of this. but I saw his spirit leave his body which was sometime after he had 'officially died' . this started a whole chain of stuff for me and an interest in spirituality etc.

I found the whole thing quite comforting,
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Unread 05-18-2010, 11:31 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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this is fascinating.

my niece was born premature - 2 months. she has mainly fire but does have some water.her mother was involved in a car accident which brought on the labour.

however this thread then also got me thinking about spirits and death! I think there is a link. I guess we are less comfortable with this side of the spirit leaving the body.

my dad died July 1996 at the time Sun in cancer etc - I need to check the chart of this. but I saw his spirit leave his body which was sometime after he had 'officially died' . this started a whole chain of stuff for me and an interest in spirituality etc.

I found the whole thing quite comforting,
I'd be interested in the chart of your niece, if she has any planets rising. I'm going to collect and sift through the http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=24388
thread. If you have anything add it there. Also in regards to this thread it would be great if you have any information to add.
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  #36  
Unread 05-18-2010, 12:56 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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Originally Posted by Astro-Intuitive View Post
This is an extremely interesting thread! I am glad to see other astrologers (such as Cosmiccradle) employing the INCARN technology and methods of horoscope verification and total functionality. I would like to know more about what specific books by Alan Leo mentioned the Sun-Moon-ASC relationship to the precise moment horoscope elements become "fixed" in a horoscope. (Willner mentions a connection among the Sun-Moon-Uranus.)

I was fortunate enough to get to know John Willner for a short time before he died (although, through e-mail correspondence - not in person) and to purchase the program from Fred Bickum (updated as Incarn2) shortly thereafter. I also agree that this method needs to be explicity known, because I think it will help so many astrologers (and the astrological community as a whole) to raise astrology to the standard of precision and practical application to which it is highly capable (and attainable).

The only other thing that I know plays a role in the moment cosmic elements become fixed in a horoscope - other than the Sun-Moon-Uranus connection - is the zodiacal signs of Cancer and Sagittarius (which have a correlation to the Pineal and Pituitary glands, respectively, in the human body).

If anyone has more insights into this I'd be very much interested in hearing more.

Shaun
Shaun,

You're lucky to have been able to communicate with John Willner before he died. I missed out and was really sad a couple years ago when I learned he'd died a few years previous. I'd hoped to meet him in person.

I don't have the Incarn software and I've lost touch with Fred Bickum. Do you know anything about him now? I haven't been able to get an email response from him for quite a while.

I think I've already put my insights into this thread. I'll pretty much share everything I've learned. I don't keep secrets. Since I have not been able to spend $500 on Incarn2 (or didn't want to), I determined to learn how to determine the same Asc results (at least within a degree). It starts with knowing your signs really well. Unfortunately most professional astrologers don't, and I had to have some hard lessons from Bickum by email before I turned things around and sharpened my skills considerably.

You can email me anytime about your work and anything else you'd like to say.

Peace
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Unread 05-18-2010, 05:25 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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Shaun,

You're lucky to have been able to communicate with John Willner before he died. I missed out and was really sad a couple years ago when I learned he'd died a few years previous. I'd hoped to meet him in person.

I don't have the Incarn software and I've lost touch with Fred Bickum. Do you know anything about him now? I haven't been able to get an email response from him for quite a while.

I think I've already put my insights into this thread. I'll pretty much share everything I've learned. I don't keep secrets. Since I have not been able to spend $500 on Incarn2 (or didn't want to), I determined to learn how to determine the same Asc results (at least within a degree). It starts with knowing your signs really well. Unfortunately most professional astrologers don't, and I had to have some hard lessons from Bickum by email before I turned things around and sharpened my skills considerably.

You can email me anytime about your work and anything else you'd like to say.

Peace

Hi Kannon,

Fred has been traveling around the world on his boat he built (or several boats he built) for the past couple of years. I am not sure if he is in the States now, because I haven't spoken to him in a while. I just tried contacting about a week ago but will e-mail you with his contact information. Also, I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have about INCARN, John Willner and his astrological insights. Other than John, Fred is the only other astrologer who probably knows the most about INCARN.

Take care,
Shaun
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  #38  
Unread 05-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Soul enters the body
When sperm fuses with ovum
Just before birth
Forty days after conception
Quickening
Does not exsist, it is the breath of God.
Comes and goes (choice of body is not yet decided)
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Unread 06-01-2010, 10:21 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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You seem to be assuming that the soul has a choice of when it is incarnated, what if that time is up to a higher authority?
How it comes to be is not the question, it is the time when it happens.
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Unread 06-03-2010, 01:38 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

The 'higher authority' is your Soul - the REAL YOU. Not the human you in a state of amnesia.

FREE WILL. It is ONLY the Soul that has choice as to when it incarnates. We may get input, but it is our choice.

However, just as when going from your house to another's, a door must be opened. We cannot just blast through to this dimension at any moment. It first cooperates with the Universal order of things, which Superstring Theory is starting to put into scientific terms. It also cooperates with biology, but biology does not define it. It is the manifestation of it.
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Unread 06-03-2010, 08:42 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

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The 'higher authority' is your Soul - the REAL YOU. Not the human you in a state of amnesia.

FREE WILL. It is ONLY the Soul that has choice as to when it incarnates. We may get input, but it is our choice.

However, just as when going from your house to another's, a door must be opened. We cannot just blast through to this dimension at any moment. It first cooperates with the Universal order of things, which Superstring Theory is starting to put into scientific terms. It also cooperates with biology, but biology does not define it. It is the manifestation of it.
Ah now I follow, yes I do believe the soul has a choice, (to a point, we are sent to make that choice) not only that it's choice is directed towards the lessons that need to be learned, the karma that needs to be fulflled. Once the choice has been made, and the soul enters all is wiped clean of the memory or reason for that choice, so that the lessons are not influenced and are in fact learned. This is an extremely painful stand, because we find ourselves on a plain with things like child abuse, born into poverty, illness. There are many who believe we choose our parents, and do so with reason. The whole foundation on incarnation as far as I'm concerned is based on that "what we must finish before we can move on." Some are lucky and may fulfill this in heaven, others will have to return and do it via the flesh.
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Unread 06-05-2010, 11:50 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Hi All,

From what I am able to understand, conception starts in the MIND (the fourth dimension) of both parents. It is their intents and purposes that call forth the act of sex (or the motivative power that gives rise to and unites the higher mental-physical-emotional forces of creation) through which a child is made. Whatever was BORN INTO that influence (and whether their purposes were in harmony or at-variance – spiritual or carnal – explicitly stated and known – or assumed and not known) determines the BEGINNING of what is to take place thereafter in the process of the offspring/developing body within the womb.

Based on what I have studied thus far in my astrological and spiritual-related studies, the biological, astrological, and etheric or aerial forces (this last one, the “aerial”, pertains to those sympathetic influences that derive from the mother’s mental and emotional vibratory influences and their impact upon the umbilical cord and pineal of the growing biological body during the periods of gestation) ALL have an impact upon the growing biological organism representative of a human body.

These factors play a significant role in establishing the physiological and vibrational foundation of a body whose attunement would be in such a manner as to attract or (((…call forth…))) a particular soul (through that soul’s own attraction to same and by its own choice and objective for this period of development) that is seeking to incarnate. The planetary elements that are to become fixed in a soul’s astrological signature (or horoscope) would have to coincide not only with the attunement of the body that has been developed over the period of gestation (so that the soul’s encasement in same will enable it to attain or accomplish its purposes physically and mentally – or energetically, as a whole – via the capabilities instilled in the body that has been built for it) but also with its individuality (Sun sign), personality (Ascendant sign), predominate cosmic influence, overall life purpose/s and parallel associations with soon-to-be parents, siblings, friends, etc. (In some way or another, all of these signatures tend to mesh together like pieces of a puzzle – and the unitation of such highly complex configurations of astronomical [and utterly amazing!] proportions can only be explain by, or attributed to, one single force: God, Universal Mind, Cosmic Consciousness or whatever one wants to call it.)

This would imply that while the biological organism is very much alive, and of a human nature, the soul itself does not enter into that body until it is ready to enter into this world (via birth). It is during this time (during labor) that the soul is involved in the decision-making process as to what horoscope elements it much choose for the body in which it seeks to inhabit. Since such would involve consuming a huge amount of information, understanding that information thoroughly and the implications that a choice with respect to same would entail, I can only speculate that soul minds operate at a much higher and faster level and must be of super intelligence!

In any case, upon completion of same (i.e., of the cosmic template being instantaneously and energetically “locked” into the infant’s body . . . this usually occurs within a six-hour time frame before physical birth entry), the physical birth (or first breath) takes place (which might be the phase that “activates” the cosmic template and puts it into motion).

In spite of the above-mentioned information, any matters regarding the spiritual, soul-birth entry, et cetera, is quite hard to demonstrate or validate with ironclad proofs (although, certainly not impossible). A key component to finding answers would be for there to be a scientific interest in studying the electron energy of the soul (for that which we call life is, indeed, of an electronic source). In fact, the functionality of the biological, mechanical, chemical, spiritual (cosmic/astrological) and electrical forces within a human body is what enables the soul to stay alive therein. When any of those stop functioning and the body becomes short-circuited (either through the heart or brain) to a point where the most essential resources needed to replenish, rejuvenate and renew the vital energies of the body, or they are depleted, the soul is either pushed out of, or exits, the body . . . into infinity.


Regards,
Shaun
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  #43  
Unread 06-06-2010, 04:19 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Along the above lines, specifically regarding the initiating first breath, among advocates of swara-shastra (pranayama) in India, the subtle channel through which the first pranic breath is drawn by the newborn makes a difference upon which subtle elements will "imprint" upon the field of that infant:
-if an "ida" (left nostril) first breath, - polarity (or, to use a Chinese term, "Yin") influences will primarily imprint the subtle field
-if a "pingala" (right nostril) first breath, + polarity ("Yang") influences will primarily imprint the subtle field
-if a sushumna (both nostrils) first breath, both + and - polarities will equally imprint the substle field

By this swara-shastra explanation, the differing life results of exact time-twins can be accounted for: if time twin A drew an "ida" breath, and time twin B drew a "pingala" breath, in the case of time twin A the -polarity (Yin) elements of the natal cosmic state would have imprinted, while in the case of time twin B the +polarity (Yang) elements of the natal cosmic state would have imprinted; results would obviously be quite different between the two!

An interesting concept-actually there is a great deal more to swara-shastra and its applications to astrological considerations than my very brief mention above-I learned about this theory/practice from Jaimini jyotishi in Ponmudi forest, Kerala, some time ago. I will post more about some of these unusual ideas in the future.
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Unread 06-06-2010, 05:11 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Shaun, and Dr. Farr it is a pleasure to read your posts, and take up this interesting side of conceptional astrology. Thank you both.
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Unread 11-15-2010, 02:50 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Refreshing this intersting thread...

Last edited by dr. farr; 12-12-2010 at 04:38 AM.
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Unread 11-15-2010, 10:21 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

I can see Uranus having a potential affinity to this, but relative to psychedelic and entheogenic effects Neptune is the "king" (according to my studies and experiences)
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Unread 11-15-2010, 12:33 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Ive read that some astrologers do a chart for the moment of conception and that this is an alternative chart for the native. But I assume this is not easy to do, because many women probably dont know the exact time of conception unless they are charting their cycles very closely....
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Unread 11-22-2010, 08:46 PM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

It's usually impossible to find the date of conception, much less the exact time. It's hard enough to determine the correct physical time of birth. It seems that you would have to examine thousands of people before you could find one that could prove date and time of conception. You also have the problem of "unnatural" birth, meaning odd amounts of time spent in utero. The gestation period of humans is a bit of an average anyway. It just reminds me that the "average person" doesn't actually exist.

Beyond that, my recent research has been changing my opinions on a few things. I've found a couple of Edgar Cayce readings in which soul birth took place after physical birth. So, some individuals experience soul birth prior to physical birth and some after. This contradicts some things I've said on this forum in the past. The time window for soul birth seems to be highly flexible. Further, I've also found a Cayce reading which explicitly states that the physical birth time should be used for horoscopes, not the time of soul birth. The reason given is the fact that the physical birth chart will describe influences and inclinations in the experience of the body, without regard to will.

This seems to infer that the soul chart might include some "defaults" of will. This would necessarily mean that the astrological influences of the soul are in a perpetual state of flux and thus are subject to change according to the will of the individual. I get the feeling that our charts are an inadequate method of talking about astrology that pertains to the soul. It's too rapidly changing and doesn't always throw indicators that we can catch. According to Cayce, what we here know to be astrology should be applied only to the physical birth time. I've read so many lately that it's difficult to sort them, but I believe that statement was in 3744-4.
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Unread 04-15-2011, 07:30 AM
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Jesusistheway Jesusistheway is offline
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

Dr. farr. is the third seal the culmination of the 1st and 2nd seals? what exactly are the seals in each stage? so the spark enters the 3rd seal or the first?
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Unread 04-15-2011, 07:36 AM
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Re: Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically

The Spark enters at the time of the first sealing (according to this tradition) and the 3rd sealing is the culmination of the previous 2 sealings; but this 3rd sealing impacts the ectodermal cell level, from which we develop our brain and nerves (and skin), so this 3rd sealing (the Cosmic influences operativeat that time) would have a major impression upon our mind, emotions, senses, personality, and the nerve-communication/program in our body.
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