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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #76  
Unread 11-19-2019, 07:56 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Thankyou for the link to the sidereal
the sidereal is is for kalinka who prefers VEDIC which is sidereal

Thank you I already judged that chart previously

so your previous judgment of that chart is sidereal then

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  #77  
Unread 11-19-2019, 09:22 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
It would seemingly be a straightforward no if heís L7. However I wasnít sure which house to definitively assign to the question, which is why I came here. It could be 8, in which case the answer would be yes
The question is about him, his "work".
So we should actually evaluate him, as 7th.

I don't believe the relationship between the querent's significator and his significator is relevant, since we weren't asked about the relationship (except in a subsequent, unrelated question).
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  #78  
Unread 11-19-2019, 10:46 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
The question doesn’t boil down to another question. Those are other factors to give context since there were many people asking for it, and in case any details would explain anything else in the chart. I do wonder those things but they’re not what this specific chart was drawn for. Cazimi didn’t trigger my fears but as I said, I wondered the significance of it, for ME, for a question such as this. Since my initial interpretation was about no aspect between L1-L7, but I wasn’t really sure which house to use for the matter, my question about that conjunction was about why I (Merc.) relate to the matter in that way
Dear Lux
According to what you said in your previous comments: "The other questions were the about interpreting the chart. The question was “is X connected to the mafia (in other words working with/for/under/alongside in some significant way) in his business” the initial question was whether X is connected to the mafia (in other words working with/for/under/alongside in some significant way) in his business
  1. following the horary traditionally principles neither he or his job give us a hint that indeed there's a connection and me as other members also explained that previously

  2. following modern technics, which however are unrelated to horary principles, other members here see a connection

  3. following sidereal, i can't have a personal saying since i don't practice sidereal.So it would have been better to ask those who do


So it seems that either way you got your answer.It's up to you now to distinguish which approach-technic has solid foundations and which hasn't

In real terms, however you said :" It has an annual turnover of hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of dollars but my ex barely has enough money to cover basic living costs." if a person actually is laundering money for the mob, i would have expected this person to live at least comfortably.And since the question, as you clearly stated was about him and his job and not his father, his uncle or else, please try to stay to the facts related to him and only him.
I wish you all the best

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  #79  
Unread 11-19-2019, 11:08 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Dear Lux
According to what you said in your previous comments: "The other questions were the about interpreting the chart. The question was “is X connected to the mafia (in other words working with/for/under/alongside in some significant way) in his business” the initial question was whether X is connected to the mafia (in other words working with/for/under/alongside in some significant way) in his business
  1. following the horary traditionally principles neither he or his job give us a hint that indeed there's a connection and me as other members also explained that previously
  2. following modern technics, which however are unrelated to horary principles, other members here see a connection
  3. following sidereal, i can't have a personal saying since i don't practice sidereal.So it would have been better to ask those who do

So it seems that either way you got your answer.It's up to you now to distinguish which approach-technic has solid foundations and which hasn't

In real terms, however you said :" It has an annual turnover of hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of dollars but my ex barely has enough money to cover basic living costs." if a person actually is laundering money for the mob, i would have expected this person to live at least comfortably.And since the question, as you clearly stated was about him and his job and not his father, his uncle or else, please try to stay to the facts related to him and only him.
I wish you all the best
At first I'm always judging the chart with traditional methods. If the outcome is a No, then it's a No. I'm only looking for modern planets for additional informations. And as I tried to explain several times: mars in aspect with Jupiter did give me the Yes. Pluto in his second is just another hint. When judging the chart by vedic techniques the answer is quite the same for me.
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  #80  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:19 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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When judging the chart by vedic techniques the answer is quite the same for me.
would you clarify exactly what is meant by vedic techniques
presumably sidereal
but you have not specified whether you used vedic sidereal chart
when you made original judgement
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  #81  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:23 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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At first I'm always judging the chart with traditional methods.
If the outcome is a No, then it's a No.
I'm only looking for modern planets for additional informations
. And as I tried to explain several times: mars in aspect with Jupiter did give me the Yes.

Pluto in his second is just another hint.
translation of light and collection of light is very basic horary
dwarf planet pluto can neither collect nor translate light - hence unable to hint at anything
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  #82  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:29 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
translation of light and collection of light is very basic horary
dwarf planet pluto can neither collect nor translate light - hence unable to hint at anything
I know Never talked about pluto translating any light in the chart.
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  #83  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:34 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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I know Never talked about pluto translating any light in the chart.

dwarf planets, including pluto - and at least one is bigger than pluto
but mysteriously it somehow is not cited
- are simply irrelevant for horary
would be useful if you post the sidereal chart you used
for the vedic techniques you mention
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  #84  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:34 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
would you clarify exactly what is meant by vedic techniques
presumably sidereal
but you have not specified whether you used vedic sidereal chart
when you made original judgement
The second judgement is based on prashna kundali methods...and yes I'm using the vedic sidereal chart. For my first judgement I used the original chart, which the querent posted in this thread with regiomontanus houses.

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  #85  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:41 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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The judgement is based on prashna kundali methods
...and yes I'm using the vedic sidereal chart.

sidereal chart planets are located in different signs from Tropical charts
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  #86  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:43 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

For my first judgement I used the original chart, which the querent posted in this thread

with regiomontanus houses
perhaps you used whole sign with vedic sidereal however
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  #87  
Unread 11-20-2019, 12:53 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
perhaps you used whole sign with vedic sidereal however
Don't know if you understand me right. My original judgement is based on the tropical chart the querent posted, not in whole sign but regiomontanius . After she replied today I judge the question with a Rasi Chart based on vedic techniques.

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  #88  
Unread 11-20-2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
At first I'm always judging the chart with traditional methods. If the outcome is a No, then it's a No. I'm only looking for modern planets for additional informations. And as I tried to explain several times: mars in aspect with Jupiter did give me the Yes. Pluto in his second is just another hint. When judging the chart by vedic techniques the answer is quite the same for me.
My dear Kalinka
I will repeat it once more since you are referring to the traditional method regarding mars in this chart and since you mentioned previously Frawley, an astrologer that personally i consider a traditional one, aside the usual controversy related to reception, or other things which are irrelevant to this specific thread :
  1. mars in this chart is not related to radix 8th as you said,cause i explained that 1.traditionally saturn has natural connection to 8th house .Mars has natural connection to the 8th house only in medical charts.mars is considered related to 8th house only according to modern rulership
  2. mars in this chart has been explained what it represents, either as natural sig or as accidental sig
  3. Frawley in his books and particularly real astrology makes a very clear distinction about outer planets (frawley, 2000, p:63-72) :" The need to incorporate these new planets into the system is itself erroneous, and betrays an ignorance of that system. The workings of the traditional system are based on light and the providential appearance of the Heavens to the naked eye: a planet with no light has no power, hence the weakness of whichever of the luminaries is darkened at an eclipse. The new planets and other miscellaneous objects have no appreciable light. They cannot be seen from Earth without artificial aid. Some of them cannot be seen from Earth with artificial aid. Light is the visible manifestation of truth, the substance of creation. These objects lack it, and are irrelevant to us. Of course, they are "there"; but they are there in the same way that ultraviolet and infrared wavelengths of light are "there". Theseextremes of the spectrum exist and with artificial aid can be made visible to thehuman eye; but they are irrelevant to us. So too are Uranus, Neptune and Pluto....That these new planets should be incorporated into astrology at all is by no means a necessity: no one has found any need to place the moons of Jupiter, discovered long before Uranus, into a chart, despite the fact that several of them are significantly larger than the great majority of the asteroids with which some modems are so obsessed, and that they are visible through a child's telescope while obscure bodies such as Neptune and Pluto are not. If one day there is "something new under the Sun" in man's soul, there may perhaps be need in the chart for Uranus, Neptune and Pluto; until then, they remain nothing but superfluities."
    then in his other book (Frawley,2005, p:38-39)he states:"... If the placement of an outer planet demands our attention, it can, like a
    powerful fixed star, provide a shorthand answer
    . We will never need to go looking for them ('What is Uranus doing in this chart?') and we will never find them telling us anything that is not equally well shown by the seven planets of the traditional cosmos."
  4. The fact that you are saying that according to Frawley we don't need an aspect in order to have reception.(frawley, 2005, p:44-46) " The aspect is an important part of judgement, but it is only a part. What the aspect provides is the occasion for an event to take place. No occasion: no event....For this reason, dignity and reception are of supreme importance. They are the twin keys to judgement....There is a clear theoretical distinction between essential and accidental dignity. In theory it is accidental dignity that shows the power to act, while essential dignity shows how pure is the motive behind this action.." ...

    but in this case: mars is not our main significator l7 or l7's turned l10!!!!mars in this chart in Jupiter's face while Jupiter's in mars term, so there's is reception but this reception has to be interpreted according to the house that this mars as an accidental significator is.And this mars rules his turned 4th(parents, his father,..etc) 5th(sex, fun, children..etc) and 12th(his fears , self undoing etc) and is placed in his turned 11th in his detriment having essential dignity by term though and is also accidentally succedent and not angular....But you cant take mars only cause is considered as a lessen malefic by nature and regarded him as criminals, only because mars is in an aspect with Jupiter.There is no reasoning behind that, because mars represents many different things in this chart and basically is mercury's and sun's (her third)dispositor. So if there's one planet here that has influence on someone this is mars on mercury, our querent here who asked this question.mars in mercury's triplicity , while mercury in mars domicile and triplicity, while at the same moment moon as querent's co-ruler in mars detriment..So i suppose if you want to speak about reception here you can see which mutual reception is stronger.Mars could be also querent;s 10th (job, mother..etc), 11th(friends etc..) or 6th and so forth.As a natural sig also i explained previously that mars can be so many different things.
    i dont know how else to explain that in this chart mars traditionally is simply irrelevant to the question whether her ex is working for the mob.What you are saying here is inventing your own rules and mixing hypothetical scenario which stem from your imagination with an horary reading and this is not acceptable to horary.Mayby according to sidereal you tend to reach to such conclusion, but i am not practicing sidereal and i cant have a saying on that... and this chart was cast in regiomontanus and tropical ..not in whole houses..not in koch or whatsoverer.And another thing that is important while we use a method...we don't jump from one system to another simply trying to justify our reasoning
  5. 4.To sum up my dear Kalinka: i am not judging you for using sidereal, modern assumptions or whatsoever.Of cource you can choose whatever method suits you...as long you state clearly which method you use.So in case you say: i know traditional horary and i judged this chart and i saw that there is a connection with Jupiter and mars and additionally i mentioned pluto , this is your own rules or something else. Moreover repeatedly in this chart you have made basic mistakes regarding planets dignity or position and it's no excuse to tell sorry i haven't checked the table of dignities...or i havent seen where mars is, or where mercury is...etc.In other words you dont know how to read this chart according to the rules that horary dictates.
    Perhaps according to prashna kundali methods indeed this chart gives a connection and for that i would kindly ask experts of this method to give their opinion, either in this thread or in a different section more suitable where sidereal practices are discussed.And once more i kindly ask you to forgive me if a make this distinction over here, but you are forcing me to do that since you claim you use traditional rules.Well no you don't ...and that's the only reason i am responding to this thread once more, stems from my need to clarify this confusion ....because if someone else reads this post who doesn't know horary then he would be misled by such a comment.By no means is personal, you have to understand this:

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  #89  
Unread 11-20-2019, 03:22 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Guys
Read this chart as rumor true or not
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  #90  
Unread 11-20-2019, 03:30 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by tikana View Post

Guys
Read this chart as rumor true or not
AJ advised similarly
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

Hi ElenaJ,
Before introducing irrelevant celestial bodies,
you'll probably want to pin down
the correct house to answer the question.


Hi lux111,
I do not believe so.
Umar would tell you to use H4, because
you have a suspicion or matter that you want to know would be true or not.
If your suspicions are based on a rumor, then
H5 might be the appropriate house.
....the house will also determine the correct significator for your question.
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  #91  
Unread 11-20-2019, 05:23 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by tikana View Post
Guys
Read this chart as rumor true or not
According to Frawley if we read it as rumor:
-axis in fixed signs= no
- L1, L3, moon in fixed signs= mercury in scorpio, sun in scorpio, moon in taurus, = yes
- L1,L3, moon in angular or succedent houses: mercury+sun=no, moon=yes

If we use the 4th house and his ruler for the end of the matter = mercury and venus in mutual bad reception by detriment,
moon in venus'domicile, venus in moon's face, venus receives jupiter by rulership and triplicity.

In prashna kundali we also use the 4th house for the end of the matter:
L4 sun in 6th/his 12th in conjunction with L7 and mercury (his 11th and 8th),moon in opposition with L4 and mercury = L4 , outcome is negative for querent

i stay with my judgement but I can also understand very well why others see it differently.

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Unread 11-20-2019, 05:33 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
According to Frawley if we read it as rumor:
-axis in fixed signs= no
- L1, L3, moon in fixed signs= mercury in scorpio, sun in scorpio, moon in taurus, = yes
- L1,L3, moon in angular or succedent houses: mercury+sun=no, moon=yes

If we use the 4th house and his ruler for the end of the matter = mercury and venus in mutual bad reception by detriment,
moon in venus'domicile, venus in moon's face, venus receives jupiter by rulership and triplicity.

In prashna kundali we also use the 4th house for the end of the matter:
L4 sun in 6th/his 12th in conj. with L1 and mercury (his 11th and 8th),moon in opposition with L4 and mercury = L4 , outcome is negative for querent

i stay with my judgement but I can also understand very well why others see it differently.
(Frawley, 2005, p: 164)
To be true:
the angles of the chart should be in fixed signs
Lord 1, Lord 3, the Moon and the Moon's dispositor should be in fixed signs and angular houses, or at least fixed signs and succedent houses.


1.angles not in fixed signs
2.mercury and sun fixed and cadent, while moon fixed and succedent and also moon's dispositor venus=mutable and angular...!!!!! but this is not a rumor

a rumour question would have been something like that...but even then i would be very careful whether to judge it as above:
  1. i heard recently that my ex is implicated to the mob..is that rumour true? or his parents..uncle whoever..
  2. i read on the news that my ex ...bla bla did this or that...is that rumour true?
  3. a friend came and told me that my ex is implicated to the mob...is that rumour true?etc

Last edited by Aria Venue; 11-20-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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  #93  
Unread 11-20-2019, 05:51 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

yes her question wasn't a rumor for me, too.
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  #94  
Unread 11-20-2019, 08:09 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

The querent in fact wrote that she had first hand suspicions, not that she had heard a rumour from someone.
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Unread 11-20-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
The querent in fact wrote that she had first hand suspicions, not that she had heard a rumour from someone.
Correct
I have suspicions, my mother also has suspicions, but Iíve never heard a rumour. Italians do not mention the m-word.
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  #96  
Unread 11-21-2019, 01:13 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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yes her question wasn't a rumor for me, too.
not saying that the question is a rumor....
3rd house is querents thought in another way
are my thoughts suspicions correct = is the rumor true
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Unread 11-21-2019, 07:20 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

"are my thoughts suspicions correct = is the rumour true"

This doesn't sound right, Tikana. A rumour is necessarily other people talking, not the querent.
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Unread 11-21-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"are my thoughts suspicions correct = is the rumour true"

This doesn't sound right, Tikana. A rumour is necessarily other people talking, not the querent.
Wrong
You dont need other ppl talking about it.
Open wiliam lily when will i hear from my brother.
She s asking if the guy is in mafia
Her thoughts could b faulty.
Which house rules thoughts? 3rd house
U dont need to look at digity of 7th cause he could be godfather of mafia ie dignified
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Unread 11-21-2019, 10:12 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

"when will i hear from my brother. "
This would be news, about my brother, all 3rd house.

"She's asking if the guy is in mafia"
This is about his work. Mafia is a "job".
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Unread 11-21-2019, 10:14 AM
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tikana tikana is offline
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"when will i hear from my brother. "
This would be news, about my brother, all 3rd house.

"She's asking if the guy is in mafia"
This is about his work. Mafia is a "job".
whatever. querent asked. i answered how to look at it..
you can continue trying to figure out if he is or he isnt
btw you should read carefully the question.. the question is is he connect to to the mafia ..
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