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View Poll Results: Which Astrology do you use Modern or Traditional?
Traditional Astrology 5 50.00%
Modern Astrology 5 50.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Unread 01-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

This has been conflicting me, I am still new to astrology; now I am hearing about traditional astrology and whole house system. I am conflicted to find out if my sun is really 11th or 12th. 12th house in traditional astrology sounds demonic...... also my mercury would move from 12 to 1st house....... I don't know how to decide I can relate to any one of these when I read the descriptions? Any advice or any similar issues? Please share...
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Last edited by Love2Know; 01-19-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Adding Deep Photo
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:32 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Well a 12th House Sun is a Bad placement, but a 1st House Mercury is a +, since it is Mercury's house of joy (though Mercury is in Fall and in Leo and Retro. and the Sun is Peregrine). It seems that either house system makes a 'good' and a 'bad' planet, which in this case, are the Sun and Mercury.
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Last edited by SniperBomber328; 01-17-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal. I find people who are too negative or tell you negative things are really just manipulative. I find the 12th house descriptions in traditional, manipulative. I don't want horrible placements. Does 6th house mars Capricorn mean my teeth will fall out?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:41 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal.
Nah not intimadated, just astonished! Both your Sun and Mercury, one way or another are badly placed. Though Whole Signs, may be saving your Mercury, and Placidus, your Sun......which do you value more?

I have Jupiter and Venus in the 12th Libra, so I know what it mean to have planets in the 12th.....nothing.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:50 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

if it means nothing why is it bad, thanks twelth you are blessed indeed so is he hehehe I value all my planets.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Cause one way or another your Sun is Peregrine and (would be) in the 12th

While your Mercury is Fall and Retro. ( and again, would be in the 12th).

Which agai raises the question, which do you value the most? Though it doesn't matter, since one cannot choose a house system (technically they can) to soot their averages.
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Last edited by SniperBomber328; 01-17-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
Nah not intimadated, just astonished! Both your Sun and Mercury, one way or another are badly placed. Though Whole Signs, may be saving your Mercury, and Placidus, your Sun......which do you value more?

I have Jupiter and Venus in the 12th Libra, so I know what it mean to have planets in the 12th.....nothing.
Well, venus and jup in the 12th are arguably the "easy" ones to have there...more like good karma protection for you than anything else.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:44 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Yeah thanks I know now I am conflicted to which one I fit more. I think also it's retarded to make a whole house placement deviant. Maybe you are intimidated by my glorious 12th placements...... mortal. I find people who are too negative or tell you negative things are really just manipulative. I find the 12th house descriptions in traditional, manipulative. I don't want horrible placements. Does 6th house mars Capricorn mean my teeth will fall out?
dang lady, I just realized you have a lot of retrograde planets. :P

I dunno, a 12th house Sun doesn't HAVE to be worse than 11th. I read a great astro article about the 11th house, which says it's basically a "complicated place." It's a long read, but I'd recommend at least the second half: http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgelevhouse_e.htm

....But if we can pick and choose between the two systems, I'd take 1st house Merc and 11th house Sun.

I had this same revelation last week when I did my whole house chart and realized my Mercury moved from the second to the third house. Now I'm feeling overprotective about my confused little lamb.

EDIT: Wait, is whole house different than equal house? Now I'm truly confused.
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Last edited by saturnsayshi; 01-17-2012 at 06:45 PM. Reason: I'm a spazz
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Unread 01-19-2012, 12:25 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

I know this is late to post and doesn't have much to do with trad, but I found an answer to your question a while back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Does 6th house mars Capricorn mean my teeth will fall out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aq17 View Post
For example - A Capricorn Mars in sixth house is an awesome placement and many of the great worriers and leaders have it - Cricketer Imran Khan of Pakistan has it. Maharaja Ranjeet Singh of punjab had it. The effects are shown in the right dasha periods.
The 6th house (trad):

"Mars joys here.
Lilly notes: "we usually find that Mars and Venus in conjunction in this house are arguments of a good physician" ([CA], p.54).
Cosignificators are Virgo and Mercury. "

I've tried trad. My experience with it is that it's just as bad as modern. I still have other types of astrology to dabble with before I decide either which one to use or to become a full-time skeptic (or at least a little bit closer to one) in the mainstream sense of the word.

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 01-19-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 12:52 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Very interesting Rebel thanks, Roy I am just utterly confused.
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-19-2012, 04:22 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Love2know-- Apologies if you know this already.

It is important to be a connoisseur of astrology writing. There is the good, the bad, and the downright idiotic. (Sun as Dad) + (12th house as misfortunate) = Dad problems, according to the interpretation you posted. I would place this in the idiotic category, unless other chart factors support it. For one thing, we have to look at how that sun is aspected.

To many astrologers the sun is Dad only in a day birth: it's Saturn in a night birth. Then the 4th house and IC traditionally represent the father. However, it gets more complicated, and perhaps the best thing is to look at the MC/IC axis.

Hopefully if you read the sun as a modern astrologer would, as your identity, you've found some things that make sense about the 12th house placement. The 12th house isn't unusually problematic in modern astrology, and nice sextiles or trines to the sun could make it fortunate, indeed.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Don't know, babe. I have one of those charts that is virtually the same in both house systems, so I can't personally comment. I do find that looking at trad house rulers is very useful. That changes my 7th house ruler to jupiter not neptune and my jupiter is powerful....and i've been lucky to find my true love in this lifetime. So maybe take a look at rulerships...hopefully someone will come along and explain how it could ever make sense that you are a 12th house sun.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:51 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
This has been conflicting me, I am still new to astrology; now I am hearing about traditional astrology and whole house system. I am conflicted to find out if my sun is really 11th or 12th. 12th house in traditional astrology sounds demonic...... also my mercury would move from 12 to 1st house....... I don't know how to decide I can relate to any one of these when I read the descriptions? Any advice or any similar issues? Please share...
I think it is valuable to look at both types of placements. For one thing, if your sun is in the 11th house in a quadrant system such as Placidus, it will progress into the 12th house. Ditto for your Mercury.

I view the issue of houses a bit like taking a snapshot of somebody. If I photograph you in "frontal" position, I will get a good impression of what you look like. If I photograph you in profile, it will still resember your first picture, but it will also look different.

Houses work like that. So my best recommendation is that you look at different houses (Astrodienst has quite a few to choose from) and read up on planets in houses. Also think about planets progressing and getting pinged by transiting planets. Eventually you will find the best fit.

If I really want to spend a lot of time with a chart, I will run it using different house systems. Where your planets stay in the same house regardless, you know you've got something.

The whole signs house discussion, moreover, really applies to the early period of Hellenistic astrology. By late antiquity, astrologers developed and used a range of quadrant house systems. These developed further, into the Renaissance period. Placidus was a traditional astrologer! You might also look up the reasons why each of these systems was developed, and find one that makes sense to you. I believe wikipedia has entires on the different house systems and how and why they were constructed.

Also, there is no reason why you couldn't use whole-signs with a modern, less doom-and-gloom interpretation of 12th house meanings!
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Last edited by waybread; 01-17-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:55 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Very very interesting and educated response waybread, I am pleased with this thank you. Also, if I want to continue studying astrology I would like to focus on one system to start. I can get really scattered and flighty with things so I need to stay focused then branch out! I do believe I need more research on the houses instead of getting caught up in the negatives and look at them more rationally, I need to keep my ego out of it. I am protective of my precious chart!
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It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi

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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:04 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Very very interesting and educated response waybread, I am pleased with this thank you. Also, if I want to continue studying astrology I would like to focus on one system to start. I can get really scattered and flighty with things so I need to stay focused then branch out! I do believe I need more research on the houses instead of getting caught up in the negatives and look at them more rationally, I need to keep my ego out of it. I am protective of my precious chart!
Whole signs system is cra-p. I acknowledge more the equal house system.

I have the same problem , my Sun,Mars and Venus change in another house when I change the house system from Placidus to equal or Koch! I hate that! I don't like changes on something that personal a.k.a. the personal planets.

Last edited by Choe; 01-17-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Yes either way I am full of retrogrades! My moon venus stay first either way so thats ok I guess.............. What does retograde in traditional mean again? So msg my cancerian qualities are dulled down or hidden deep within me?
Not necessarily dulled down or deeply hidden. Think instead of being a clam. You still have the traits, but they're guarded from others with a heavy, thick shell that only you can open.
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

BUT isn't that all cancer suns in general MSO?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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BUT isn't that all cancer suns in general MSO?
Do you think you're a typical Cancer Sun?
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:03 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Define typical cancer sun/ please.
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:35 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

houses are one of the quagmires of astrology... astrologers typically don't agree on them... according to my reading signs and houses were terms that were interchangeable a long time ago.. this still doesn't address the many ins and outs to the numerous house systems..

an alternative way to look at your chart is to consider learning as much as you can about astrology to let you make a better informed decision on just which house your planets land in..

either way love2know i see planets on angles having the most amount of say... in your chart moon/venus on the ascendant dominates and i say this from the limited amount of time i have been on this site watching the activity of members like yourself.. indian astrology, or vedic places more emphasis on the ascendant in comparison to pop astrology here in the west with emphasis on the sun... also, i think the moon is much more informative in a womens chart then the sun position..

moon/venus on your ascendant with venus connected to the midheaven suggests finding some artistic outlets for your leo energy... moon strong in a chart, and it has an even more important role in a sun in cancer person - suggests you need to be on stage, or doing something artistic where you can be the center of attention with a certain degree of drama going on to keep you entertained.. mercury at your sun/moon midpoint in combo with a focal moon might imply writing as well.. mercury is stationary as well which makes its position in your chart quite powerful given the nature of stationary planets..

i wouldn't get caught up on the house sign conundrum that tends to plague those new to astrology, as well as those who have been doing it a long while.. instead you might learn more from understanding planetary relationships through knowing more about aspects.. sun/mars opp in your chart is quite pronounced and saturn feeds right into this too via 45/135 aspects.. your sun has a very nice trine from jupiter to help offset some of the challenges associated with how it is set in your chart.. hopefully this is of some value to you.. cheers james
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Unread 01-17-2012, 07:47 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

Thank you sandstone that is true I need to focus more on basics before I get discouraged over house systems and placements......... and I am happy for my sun opp mars and sun trine jupitur <3
Stillone how many ways was mso's post funny in?
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Unread 01-17-2012, 08:25 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Love2Know
Join date, oct 2011
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Yeah.............................................. ........ hey I joined here like knowing nothing, now I actually learnt some stuff!
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The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-17-2012, 08:27 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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Yeah.............................................. ........ hey I joined here like knowing nothing, now I actually learnt some stuff!
You can't say you've wasted your time can you
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Unread 01-17-2012, 08:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology Vs Traditional Astrology Placements

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You can't say you've wasted your time can you
LOL omgosh *hides*
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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