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  #1  
Unread 10-28-2019, 09:33 PM
jgm0228 jgm0228 is offline
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Natal retrogrades

Hello, I have natal mercury and venus, both in gemini and both retrograde at 22 degrees, exactly conjunct my gemini sun at 22 degrees (i know, i know).



i'd like to figure out if/when my mercury or venus will have turned direct based on my chart's progression...can anyone help? i'd also welcome any general info about this 3-planet exact conjunction and the retrogrades involved.


thank you!!
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  #2  
Unread 10-29-2019, 12:55 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgm0228 View Post
Hello, I have natal mercury and venus, both in gemini and both retrograde at 22 degrees, exactly conjunct my gemini sun at 22 degrees (i know, i know).



i'd like to figure out if/when my mercury or venus will have turned direct based on my chart's progression...can anyone help? i'd also welcome any general info about this 3-planet exact conjunction and the retrogrades involved.


thank you!!
Birth data would be helpful.

Once the astrologer has birth data in hand, quick reference to the ephemeris will answer your questions.

Note that Venus is retrograde in only about 8% of all horoscopes. Therefore, when it occurs, it must be very significant, a strong influence in the character and destiny. The combustion (possibly cazimi) adds to the emphasis.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-29-2019 at 01:07 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 10-29-2019, 01:00 PM
jgm0228 jgm0228 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Birth data would be helpful.

Once the astrologer has birth data in hand, quick reference to the ephemeris will answer your questions.

Note that Venus is retrograde in only about 8% of all horoscopes. Therefore, when it occurs, it must be very significant, a strong influence in the character and destiny. The combustion (possibly cazimi) adds to the emphasis.
Thank you SO MUCH for the reply! I am trying to upload my birth data now; i guess new members have to post 3 times before it’ll let you upload. But if it helps in the meantime, I was born June 13, 1988 at exactly 4am in Munich, Germany.

I looked up on an ephemeris online, and it looks like Venus went direct July 4, 1988–21 days after I was born. Am I understanding correctly that Venus in my progressed chart would have gone direct when I was 21 years old? I will have to look up cazimi, those are new terms to me, but I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your reply. Im so excited to be learning!!
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Unread 10-29-2019, 04:58 PM
jgm0228 jgm0228 is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

Trying again to attach this...I hope it works.


https://www.astro.com/tmpd/ce05filer...5129.52268.png
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File Type: png astro_w2gw_jude.55129.52268.png (39.7 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by jgm0228; 10-29-2019 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Deleting my other post; the attachment didn't work
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Unread 10-29-2019, 07:38 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

Mercury turns direct at age 11, Venus age 20.

Cazimi is when a combust planet is "within the heart of the Sun", or within 16' of the center of the Sun (32' is one solar diameter.) It supposedly converts the adverse meanings of combustion into brilliance or genius.

Your chart features the 30th, or Last degree...the Asc in Taurus, the partile conj of Saturn-Uranus in Sagittarius.

It holds 2 partile conjunctions.

The Common signs are strongly preponderant and there are 6 rx planets, with all planets in the west rx.

Both Lights plus the cazimis form a Gemini/First House stellium, ruled by Mercury but administered by Jupiter. Pluto stands apart.

There is an open sesquiquadrate formation involving all planets except Mars and Pluto. The pattern is very irregular, off-balance...a "bowl" with strong "splay" traits. I lean toward "splay"; the separation of Pluto from the partile conjunction is about 45° (insufficient), while Mars stands apart from Neptune by 64° (sufficient separation). So it's a splay pattern with Mars as Reins. Mars is conjunct North Node.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-29-2019 at 08:32 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 10-29-2019, 08:10 PM
jgm0228 jgm0228 is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

Thank you!! So my natal mercury and venus would both be considered cazimi, then...right? Does the fact that they were both retrograde affect the cazimi? Or would that have been more of a concern before ages 11 and 20 when they went direct? Just curious, as I don't think I've experienced any particular brilliance or genius in anything ruled by either planet, sadly, lol
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Unread 10-29-2019, 08:41 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

I put little stock in cazimi.

What it does for sure is put Emphasis on the 23rd degree of Gemini. The Sabian Symbol for this degree is "Three fledglings in a nest high in a tree".

I also have both Mercury and Venus Rx and combust. They both turned direct when I was around 16 and took my independence from a dysfunctional parental family. The 2 planets co-rule the 4th.

The implications of the Rx planets remain in the personality for life. They do not vanish when the planets turn direct by progression.

Oh. Does Rx affect cazimi? Treat each planetary condition separately. Rx does this or that; combustion produces whatsis. Being in Gemini has its (more complex) significance. Then synthesize.

The duality in the chart is overpowering. What a scintillating Sun. Strong and narrowed foci of interest.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-29-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 10-29-2019, 10:18 PM
jgm0228 jgm0228 is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

Oh wow, what are the odds that you also have mercury and venus Rx and combust! I am so grateful you saw my post and responded.

Am I doomed, then, or might there be a more optimistic interpretation of those placements that I can strive towards? Any tips on where to find more info on the complex significance of them being in Gemini?
I so admire your knowledge and am thrilled to be learning (though I admit your responses have shown me how little I actually know...haha. I'd never heard of Sabian Symbols but I'm furiously researching that and duality!)
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  #9  
Unread 10-29-2019, 11:09 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal retrogrades

For a novice...

Astrology has four fundamental symbol sets: Planets, Signs, Houses and Aspects. Master them. They form the foundation on which you will build your superstructure.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-29-2019 at 11:14 PM.
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