Wealth potential in the natal chart

fullmoonlibra said:

How can we predict if someone has potential for becoming rich?

Do we have to look at Venus placement and aspects or has the second house more say on it?

This is for peoplewho build on their own wealth.

But some people get wealthy through others. By marrying a rich guy for example.
And I think that has to do with the seventh house, eight house.

My Venus is in Taurus, and being in the 10th house I think I have to build up my wealth through a career.
And it is almost not aspected. So not that easy I think.
And with Virgo on the second house cusp I will earn a modest amount of money in my life.

Am I right or wrong about my own chart?

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BobZemco said:

There are three main lines of thinking.

Ptolemy uses the Lot of Fortune, the Almuten of the Lot Fortune and any Planets that aspect the Almuten of the Lot of Fortune. The Almuten of anything is simply that Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity at a particular point on the chart.

33°24' is the same as 3° Taurus 24'. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Term Ruler, while Moon is the Exaltation Ruler. In a Day Chart, Venus would be the Sect Triplicity Ruler, so Venus has the greatest Dignity in that point. However, in a Night Chart, Moon is the Sect Ruler of Earth Signs and so Venus and Moon would each have two dignities.

In that case, which one, Moon or Venus aspects that point? The one that does is the Almuten. If neither aspect it, or they are equally close in aspect, then take the one that is in the correct facing, and if neither are, then take the one that is closer in degrees.

Sometimes you have multiple points, like the Almuten of Marriage. That is the Planet that rules the Lot of Marriage, Venus, and the Sun for women or Moon for men. The Planet that has the greatest Dignity in those three points is the Planet that actually rules marriage in that chart, and so when you did your Profections and Solar Returns, you would be looking at the Almuten of Marriage to give you hints that marriage is possible, then you would look at Primary Directions (using the Almuten) to determine the exact date (since transits are guaranteed to fail).

Ptolemy says the quadrant the Almuten is located will tell you roughly when in life someone will gain/lose wealth, and directed the any Planet that afflicts the Almuten of Wealth will tell you when they'll lose it.

Others of the Hellenistic group, the Romans, Persians and some of the Medieval ones use the Almuten of the 2nd House cusp, Ruler 2nd House, Jupiter (the general significator of wealth), and the Lot of Wealth (aka Lot of Substance or Lot of Possessions) which is ASC + 2nd House Cusp - 2nd House Ruler.

From that point they follow Ptolemy. Really important are Planets that afflict the Almuten of Wealth and from where. For example, a square, is it ten Houses away (a Dexter square) or four Houses away (a Sinister square). Dexter aspects (Dexter sextiles, trines and squares are more powerful than Sinister sextiles, trines and squares), and also is the Planet that squares (or opposes) the Almuten Angular or elevated above the Almuten.

The Almuten will give you hints at how you acquire whatever wealth you might get, through your own labor, through inheritance, through luck, through your own wit and cunning and skill, through arts and crafts and other Venusian things and so on, through leadership and command ability (like running your own business or running someone else's business) or other Martian things and so on.

That method is much better than Ptolemy's (who had a peculiar bias against Greek Lots) and when you start looking at a lot of charts, you'll see that the Lot of Fortune has little to do with wealth, rather it is about the Native's general fortune in life and the good and bad that happens to them.

Another method that is not as complex but worth the effort is that of the later Medievals, like Bonatti and Lily.

Here, you're looking at the the area 5° before the 2nd House Cusp up to 5° before the 3rd House Cusp. You consider any Planets in the region, plus the 2nd House Ruler and the Planet that rules any intercepted Sign in the region. So if the 2nd House Cusp is 15° Taurus and the 3rd House Cusp is 22° Gemini, you'd be looking at the region between 10° Taurus in the 1st House up to 17° Gemini and you'd look at both Venus and Mercury who rule Taurus and Gemini, plus any Planets in that region.

They also want you to look at Jupiter and the Lot of Fortune and any Planets that aspect Jupiter or the Lot of Fortune.

They pay more attention to the condition of the Planets, so, for example Jupiter as the general significator of wealth should be Angular, Direct, in Dignity, preferably in Sagittarius, Pisces, or Cancer and if not then in his own Triplicity or Term, Oriental, Diurnal and not in square or opposition to Mercury, Sun, Mars or Saturn and not Combust (and that's true for any Planet).

What you don't want to see is Jupiter in Capricorn, Gemini or Virgo, or Retrograde or Peregrine, Combust, Cadent, Occidental, Nocturnal in a Day Chart or other things like that, and especially not in square or opposition to a Malefic or Accidental Malefic (like Sun or Mercury).

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fullmoonlibra said:

Jupiter as significator.
It's in Pisces, direct and angular.
But square Saturn.

And ruler of 2nd house is in 8th house, in Mars and afflicted.

So maybe money is not that easy to gain.

I have moon in libra in second house, trine venus.
Still no chance?

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BobZemco said:

Sextiles are the weakest, and a Sinister sextile from a Cadent House is almost a non-event (in fact from the 12th House it wouldn't even be an aspect).

I don't use Neptune, but to the extent that I would, I consider the Outers to be the Upper Octaves of Mercury, Venus and Mars. I would first look at the condition of Venus. A strong Venus, Direct, Fast in Motion, in an Angular/Succedent House, in her own Dignity would make Neptune strong. I'd want to see if Jupiter received Neptune by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term or Decan, because any Reception is good, even if it's only simple Reception, and the more Reception the better.

Since Jupiter is the faster Planet, he's the one squaring Neptune and that square will be powerful if Jupiter is Angular or Succedent, and if Jupiter is Dexter, he has the upper hand and would decimate Neptune.

An Almuten can be Peregrine, or Retrograde or Combust (or all three and worse) and you would look at that when judging chart.

You look at it sort of on a "Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest..." and if the Peregrine Almuten is in the 10th or 5th or 9th or 11th or 1st or 7th that's better than being in the 6th, 8th or 12th.

Also, you have to view everything in the context of region, ethnicity, parentage and socio-economic status. A middling Almuten that isn't very strong but isn't absolutely horrid would indicate "average" and if you were Middle Class, you'd be smack dab in the Middle Middle Class, or if you were Lower Class in the middle of the Lower Class and so on.

If there are indicators of a change in class, you'd go from Lower Class to the middle of the Middle Class, or maybe you go from Upper Class to middle of the Middle Class if the indicators show a loss.

And part of that too, is that you might end up better off, the same or worse off than your parents.

It's confusing. I'd prefer another term myself, but suffice to say that a Planet is Occidental when in the 1st, 2nd, 3r, 7th, 8th or 9th Houses, but it is also Occidental when it rises after the Sun.

You always want Venus and Mars rising after the Sun, ie Occidental, because they are Nocturnal or Feminine Planets. You always want Jupiter and Saturn to be Oriental, rising before the Sun because they are Masculine and Diurnal.

Mercury is a different animal. If the Sun is in Gemini, then you want Mercury Oriental rising before the Sun and in Gemini (a few degrees ahead of the Sun and not Combust), but if Mercury is Occidental, you'd want him behind the Sun in Cancer.

I ignore Uranus and never really found it useful in a Natal Chart.

Those are also called Welled or Deep Degrees, and they're exactly what they sound like, you dug your grave, or you made your bed and have to lie in it, or you dug yourself into a hole and can't get out, or you've trapped yourself in a corner like a cockroach.

In a Natal Chart, Planets in Pitted Degrees struggle a lot. Sometimes struggle is good, it's Nature's way of strengthening.

At other times, struggle gets to be a freaking headache.

If a Planet in a Pitted Degree is strong, it will survive the struggle, if not, then it's going to become tedious, if not downright frustrating.

Jupiter is just one of the significators of wealth. If Jupiter is the Almuten, then to help it, you'd want to see Venus in any aspect with Jupiter, or Mercury or the Sun in sextile or trine with Jupiter. Even Mars in Pisces, Aries, Sagittarius or Leo in sextile or trine with Jupiter would help (especially in a Night Chart because Jupiter rules the Fire Signs at Night).

The Moon conjunct, sextile or trine Jupiter, that would depend a lot on Sign, House and House Type. The Moon represents constant change and fluctuation, just like the song says:

O Fortuna! Velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis;
Vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,

egestatem, potestatem dissolvit ut glaciem.

Fortune, like the Moon
always changing state,
forever increasing and decreasing.


Hateful life:
Now oppressing then soothing
as it fancies,

Poverty and Power, [the Moon] melts them like ice.

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poyi said:

In term of Bill Gates' chart.

2nd house: Jupiter conjunct Pluto by 1 approaching aspect in Leo while 4th Sun in Scorpio ruler of Jupiter & Pluto, mutual reception as per modern rulership.

8th house Aquarius, 5th house Saturn 1 approaching aspect conjunction to Venus in Scorpio in 5th house, tight square between Saturn and Venus to Jupiter and Pluto. Venus in Scorpio is the ruler of 4th and 11th house.

Modern rulership for 8th how he gain other people's wealth, 1st house Uranus known as softwares developer in Leo, so ruled by Sun, ruler of Sun in 2nd house. Traditional ruler Sun is ruled by Mars in Libra, Venus in Scorpio, mutual reception as per signs.

Clearly in his case, wealth comes to him not because of Easy Aspects or Dignified Venus as per sign but through mutual reception. Also both Venus and Jupiter are in the right places 2nd and 8th house ruling the 4th, 11th while Jupiter rules 6th (2nd of 5th, wealth through hobby) traditional ruler of 9th house (ruler of 9th placed in 2nd, income and oversea connection). No matter what you use both traditional or modern rulership both say the same things.

Also Mars is the ruler of 10th house and Moon in 10th at 4th house mutual reception to the Venus in 5th. Hobby 5th>Career/Home>Fame 10th house Moon. See that Moon is chart ruler.

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JUPITERASC said:

Clearly there are factors additional to the brief outline you have mentioned, because from amongst those children born at the same location within a matter of only seconds of each other, Bill Gates was the only newborn who went on to fame and fortune as an internet billionaire

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Zarathu said:

What constitues having money? Being very very wealthy or having enough to live comfortably. I live in an areas where both kinds of people exist and are friends with each other.

I'm friends with a person of a family name that Everyone in America would recognize as being very very wealthy.

Money beyond the basic needs means very little.

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JUPITERASC said:

Exactly. The dude who cleans my windows is a millionaire

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Zarathu said:

If you're paying that much, Heck, I'll clean your windows for you for half what you're paying him.

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jupiterasc said:

we're friends

plus the cost is a bargain in my opinion

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Zarathu said:

Rotflmfao!

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greybeard said:

The problem with this is not "Mars in the Third signifies potential for wealth" of itself.

The problem is the mind-set that insists on seeking out some single indicator for something.

Astrology just doesn't work that way. We can't expect to find "wealth" by just looking to Venus, or to Jupiter, or the Second House....

We must carefully examine the Whole Chart, including things that may seem to hold no connection to wealth

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BobZemco said:

The Almuten will give you hints at how you acquire whatever wealth you might get,
through your own labor,
through inheritance,
through luck,
through your own wit and cunning and skill,
through arts and crafts and other Venusian things and so on,
through leadership and command ability (like running your own business or running someone else's business)
or other Martian things and so on.

That method is much better than Ptolemy's (who had a peculiar bias against Greek Lots) and when you start looking at a lot of charts, you'll see that the Lot of Fortune has little to do with wealth, rather it is about the Native's general fortune in life and the good and bad that happens to them.

Click to expand...