David Phoenix
Active member
Hi everyone,
Just how important is finding and using the precise location when casting an astrological chart? The answer? Very. For many people creating astrological charts using a precise latitude and longitude is not considered a necessity. Why not? For years finding the location to use when creating a chart involved looking in huge atlases filled with center of city latitudes and longitudes. But in many large metropolitan areas a birth can occur some significant distance from the city's center.
Fortunately these days there are handheld GPS units, cellphones with GPS capabilities and mapping programs on the internet. This makes things far easier when looking for precise co-ordinates of birth locations. Many commercially available astrology programs have the aforementioned atlases built in as databases. Be careful if you are relying on their information. The following example shows why.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York returns
40°N43'
073°W52'
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
40°N41'59''
073°W48'55''
"So, what's the big deal, the difference is a small amount?" you might ask. The difference is accuracy. Those small amounts of latitude and longitude affect the calculation of the house cusps. This often makes chart verification difficult or impossible. That is because longitude is time, true local time actually. TLT is used when determining the MC from whence all the other house cusps are derived. The latitude determines the degree of the sign on the ASC. Therefore precise location of the native at birth is very important. Using the two slightly different locations above returns the following.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York After a run through Incarn2 with this data it returns
ASC 27 ° Cancer 49' 31"
MC 12° Aries 08' 34"
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
ASC 27° Cancer 47' 37"
MC 12° Aries 06' 45"
A two minute difference on the ASC.
A two minute difference on the MC.
I work with a 4', of arc, orb to verify charts. A two to three minute difference of the ASC or MC can make it difficult or impossible to verify a chart with this built in error. And the two minutes of difference in the MC or ASC would mean that many secondary progressions to the MC or ASC might not show anywhere close enough in time to be useful. This is from Trump's natal chart with secondary progressions to 8 November, 2016. The US Presidential Election.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York returns
1. PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, exact on 16 November. Sun ruler combined with MC
2. PRO MC parallel NAT North Node, in north declination. Destiny?
3. PRO MC conjunct PRO Uranus. Something new and different.
4. PRO MC parallel PRO Uranus, in north declination. Strongly reinforces the above aspect.
5. PRO Uranus parallel NAT Sun, in north declination.
6. PRO North Node contra-parallel NAT Moon. Activation of the ASC as well.
7. PRO North Node parallel NAT Uranus, in north declination.
8. PRO Mercury conjunct PRO Pluto. The Sun ruler combined with Pluto. Very powerful.
9. PRO North Node parallel NAT Venus, in north declination. This one is a bit wide of 4'
Progressed declinations and outer planet longitudes often take a considerable amount of time to form exact aspects. That is why having good data is so important in determining the correct ASC and MC. In the example above only one aspect involves the MC directly. The difference in time is eight days from that which uses the precise LAT & LON.
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
1. PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, exact on election day. Sun ruler combined with MC
Have you any idea how powerful this single aspect is in determining that the correct TIME and LOCATION for the chart has been used?
A progressed inner planet is forming an EXACT aspect to the proper natal angle on the day of the event.
If the time were off by a few minutes or possibly even less than 60 seconds or if the location data were inaccurate this aspect would not have formed exactly on the day of the event.
2. PRO MC parallel NAT North Node, in north declination. Destiny?
3. PRO MC conjunct PRO Uranus. Something new and different.
4. PRO MC parallel PRO Uranus, in north declination. Strongly reinforces the above aspect.
5. PRO Uranus parallel NAT Sun, in north declination.
6. PRO North Node contra-parallel NAT Moon. Activation of the ASC as well.
7. PRO North Node parallel NAT Uranus, in north declination.
8. PRO Mercury conjunct PRO Pluto. The Sun ruler combined with Pluto. Very powerful.
9. PRO North Node parallel NAT Venus, in north declination. This one is a bit wide of 4' orb.
Now imagine how much more error could creep in using whole minute birth times or indifferent locations, like the center of New York City. Or even worse physical birth times.
Just how important is finding and using the precise location when casting an astrological chart? The answer? Very. For many people creating astrological charts using a precise latitude and longitude is not considered a necessity. Why not? For years finding the location to use when creating a chart involved looking in huge atlases filled with center of city latitudes and longitudes. But in many large metropolitan areas a birth can occur some significant distance from the city's center.
Fortunately these days there are handheld GPS units, cellphones with GPS capabilities and mapping programs on the internet. This makes things far easier when looking for precise co-ordinates of birth locations. Many commercially available astrology programs have the aforementioned atlases built in as databases. Be careful if you are relying on their information. The following example shows why.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York returns
40°N43'
073°W52'
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
40°N41'59''
073°W48'55''
"So, what's the big deal, the difference is a small amount?" you might ask. The difference is accuracy. Those small amounts of latitude and longitude affect the calculation of the house cusps. This often makes chart verification difficult or impossible. That is because longitude is time, true local time actually. TLT is used when determining the MC from whence all the other house cusps are derived. The latitude determines the degree of the sign on the ASC. Therefore precise location of the native at birth is very important. Using the two slightly different locations above returns the following.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York After a run through Incarn2 with this data it returns
ASC 27 ° Cancer 49' 31"
MC 12° Aries 08' 34"
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
ASC 27° Cancer 47' 37"
MC 12° Aries 06' 45"
A two minute difference on the ASC.
A two minute difference on the MC.
I work with a 4', of arc, orb to verify charts. A two to three minute difference of the ASC or MC can make it difficult or impossible to verify a chart with this built in error. And the two minutes of difference in the MC or ASC would mean that many secondary progressions to the MC or ASC might not show anywhere close enough in time to be useful. This is from Trump's natal chart with secondary progressions to 8 November, 2016. The US Presidential Election.
Selecting Queens, New York City, New York returns
1. PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, exact on 16 November. Sun ruler combined with MC
2. PRO MC parallel NAT North Node, in north declination. Destiny?
3. PRO MC conjunct PRO Uranus. Something new and different.
4. PRO MC parallel PRO Uranus, in north declination. Strongly reinforces the above aspect.
5. PRO Uranus parallel NAT Sun, in north declination.
6. PRO North Node contra-parallel NAT Moon. Activation of the ASC as well.
7. PRO North Node parallel NAT Uranus, in north declination.
8. PRO Mercury conjunct PRO Pluto. The Sun ruler combined with Pluto. Very powerful.
9. PRO North Node parallel NAT Venus, in north declination. This one is a bit wide of 4'
Progressed declinations and outer planet longitudes often take a considerable amount of time to form exact aspects. That is why having good data is so important in determining the correct ASC and MC. In the example above only one aspect involves the MC directly. The difference in time is eight days from that which uses the precise LAT & LON.
Finding the coordinates for Jamaica Hospital, Queens, New York City, New York, in an online mapping application returns
1. PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, exact on election day. Sun ruler combined with MC
Have you any idea how powerful this single aspect is in determining that the correct TIME and LOCATION for the chart has been used?
A progressed inner planet is forming an EXACT aspect to the proper natal angle on the day of the event.
If the time were off by a few minutes or possibly even less than 60 seconds or if the location data were inaccurate this aspect would not have formed exactly on the day of the event.
2. PRO MC parallel NAT North Node, in north declination. Destiny?
3. PRO MC conjunct PRO Uranus. Something new and different.
4. PRO MC parallel PRO Uranus, in north declination. Strongly reinforces the above aspect.
5. PRO Uranus parallel NAT Sun, in north declination.
6. PRO North Node contra-parallel NAT Moon. Activation of the ASC as well.
7. PRO North Node parallel NAT Uranus, in north declination.
8. PRO Mercury conjunct PRO Pluto. The Sun ruler combined with Pluto. Very powerful.
9. PRO North Node parallel NAT Venus, in north declination. This one is a bit wide of 4' orb.
Now imagine how much more error could creep in using whole minute birth times or indifferent locations, like the center of New York City. Or even worse physical birth times.
