The 9th house

poyi · Dec 21, 2013

Libra as the first sign and Jupiter in libra, so your Jupiter ruling the 3rd which is your local community, your sibling, your primary school etc. The damaged Jupiter reflects the malefic areas and from memories you have sadness from sibling which also got confirmed with your natal Mercury then secondly your stories of local neighbourhood and so on.

My Jupiter according to dr Farr information also in pitted degree in Sagittarius ruler of 4th and at IC also conjuncts south node the best example of this malefic condition was my grandfather my blood line from father side had to give up his lands to save his family from communists a landlord and family's legacy fallen. My grandfather was a great man, religious and supported orphans, but no matter how much my grandfather loved me, nurtured me in my early childhood, my own parents/family home were abusive and not religious at all. Personally I wished the pitted degree is not really that bad and I do get a bit confused with the south node combination. In early life the pitted degree was truly malefic yet a mixed of many fortune were still existing otherwise I wouldn't be able to move aboard!! so far since I moved abroad my life is getting much better also internally at peace and have great interest in spiritual matters expressed what Jupiter supposes to do being aboard and seek higher meaning of life, however still living by myself so don't know how it will play out when having a family. I did wonder about pitted degree should it remain malefic for the entire life? perhaps we should also investigate further as now people living much longer. The other question is if the degrees now different to ancient time.

tsmall · Dec 21, 2013

dr. farr said:
I will add that Jupiter posits an elevated degree of Leo (the 4th), which (according to authors such as Abu Mashar, al-Biruni and Ibn Ezra) boost a planet's + qualities and relieve (at least to some extent) from both accidental and essential detriments (Jupiter is out of sect in the chart, in the duodenary of Virgo-Jupiter's detriment-and in the face of Saturn, and in the monomoiria of Saturn)-the angularity issue put aside, Jupiter would have been detrimented except for its positing an elevated degree-which fact, however, I suggest restores Jupiter to balance, perhaps even to functional beneficence...

How many times can I

in one evening. I was looking at the opposition to Saturn (recieved by Jupiter as you just proved) as a compromise between two oos planets...and the Square to the Sun as the impetus Jupiter needs.

dr. farr · Dec 21, 2013

may28gemini said:
I suppose one would conclude that my Jupiter is "damaged." I can attest that it works very well...

Pitted Jupiter can also mean that - influences re to Jupiter are neutralized, or at least partially so. And, of course, pits and elevations (celestial topography) are not "all-powerful": they are additional factors to the totality of essential and accidental influences on any planet in a specific chart.

tsmall · Dec 21, 2013

poyi said:
My Jupiter according to dr Farr information also in pitted degree in Sagittarius ruler of 4th and at IC also conjuncts south node the best example of this malefic condition was my grandfather my blood line from father side had to give up his lands to save his family from communists a landlord and family's legacy fallen. My grandfather was a great man, religious and supported orphans, but no matter how much my grandfather loved me, nurtured me in my early childhood, my own parents/family home were abusive and not religious at all. Personally I wished the pitted degree is not really that bad and I do get a bit confused with the south node combination. In early life the pitted degree was truly malefic yet a mixed of many fortune were still existing otherwise I wouldn't be able to move aboard!! so far since I moved abroad my life is getting much better also internally at peace and have great interest in spiritual matters expressed what Jupiter supposes to do being aboard and seek higher meaning of life, however still living by myself so don't know how it will play out when having a family. I did wonder about pitted degree should it remain malefic for the entire life? perhaps we should also investigate further as now people living much longer. The other question is if the degrees now different to ancient time.

poyi, I have my Moon, ruler of my MC, in pitted degree. It is, as dr. farr says, only one consideration among many. Moon pitted in 6th sign/house? I am totally and completely well respected in my field, but never reached the heights I wanted. Jupiter is exaltation ruler of my 10th and posited in 1st, and so I fall out ok. And at 44? With a peregrine Jupiter adhering to the the ASC...finally coming into my own, with actually a hope of a good career on the horizon.

The point is to work with your chart, and not against it. So often, we rail at the hand we are dealt. If we can understand it (prescience is useful) then we can bluff the house with a handfull of nothing more than a pair of deuces.

poyi · Dec 21, 2013

tsmall said:
poyi, I have my Moon, ruler of my MC, in pitted degree. It is, as dr. farr says, only one consideration among many. Moon pitted in 6th sign/house? I am totally and completely well respected in my field, but never reached the heights I wanted. Jupiter is exaltation ruler of my 10th and posited in 1st, and so I fall out ok. And at 44? With a peregrine Jupiter adhering to the the ASC...finally coming into my own, with actually a hope of a good career on the horizon.

The point is to work with your chart, and not against it. So often, we rail at the hand we are dealt. If we can understand it (prescience is useful) then we can bluff the house with a handfull of nothing more than a pair of deuces.

I suppose having a Big Fat Jupiter in Sagittarius at IC even a south node conjunction and pitted degree can't slim it all the way down. :tongue:

I do feel luck and fortune getting stronger as I get older.

dr. farr · Dec 21, 2013

poyi said:
I did wonder about pitted degree should it remain malefic for the entire life? perhaps we should also investigate further as now people living much longer. The other question is if the degrees now different to ancient time.

Important to realize this:

ELEVATED degrees are ALWAYS positive, "booster", conferring a "benefic" influence upon any planet in them, rescuing (to a certain extent at least) from debility and adding to the potency of any dignity, of the planet in them (they were once referred to as "degrees of honor", and "degrees of increasing fortune")

PITTED degrees however are NOT NECESSARILY MALEFIC: rather they are NEUTRALIZERS (all the early authors except Ibn Ezra, regarded them as tending to neutralize)-one could even refer to them as "balancers": the ancients taught that both the + influences AND THE - INFLUENCES regarding a planet (acting upon the influence of a planet) in a pitted degree, were REDUCED TOWARD "EVEN"-eg an otherwise highly dignified planet in a pit would not express all that much dignity, and equally a highly detrimented planet in a pit would not be "all that bad" in its expression.
Know too that pitted degrees also represent blockage, and delay: the expression of a planet could be inhibited or blocked by being in a pitted degree, NOT NEGATED BY IT! So a time factor can come into play regarding planets (or Lots) in a pitted degree: a functional benefic in the natal chart in a pitted degree is NOT made unfortunate thereby!! It could mean that the expression of this functionally benefic planet will be inhibited or blocked FOR A TIME-but NOT blocked forever!! An example of this-although here involving a negative influence-can be seen in the natal chart of Marilyn Monroe: her Part of Suicide was in her natal 8th (whole sign) house-a very unfavorable placement for the Part of Suicide. Yet-did MM suffer repeated episodes of attempted suicide throughout her life? No-not at all; actually she had NO episodes of attempted suicide PRIOR TO HER ACTUALLY COMMITTING SUICIDE AT AGE 36 (in 1962) Why no previous attempts, since her Part of Suicide was there in the 8th house in the natal? Because her Part of Suicide WAS IN A PITTED DEGREE: the activation of this factor was BLOCKED-DELAYED-by the Part being in a pitted degree, and only "arose from its pit" many years (36 years) after her birth. So, pitted degrees often indicate blockage of expression over time, for planets or Lots, in them-NOT NEGATION of the influences of those planets or Lots.

In answer to Poyi's second question, no I do not think that the elevated and pitted degrees are different today than in ancient times; I have used the original degree indications from the oldtime books, and they have "worked" accurately enough for me to consider them valid for delineative and predictive purposes to the present time.

poyi · Dec 21, 2013

dr. farr said:
Important to realize this:

ELEVATED degrees are ALWAYS positive, "booster", conferring a "benefic" influence upon any planet in them, rescuing (to a certain extent at least) from debility and adding to the potency of any dignity, of the planet in them (they were once referred to as "degrees of honor", and "degrees of increasing fortune")

PITTED degrees however are NOT NECESSARILY MALEFIC: rather they are NEUTRALIZERS (all the early authors except Ibn Ezra, regarded them as tending to neutralize)-one could even refer to them as "balancers": the ancients taught that both the + influences AND THE - INFLUENCES regarding a planet (acting upon the influence of a planet) in a pitted degree, were REDUCED TOWARD "EVEN"-eg an otherwise highly dignified planet in a pit would not express all that much dignity, and equally a highly detrimented planet in a pit would not be "all that bad" in its expression.
Know too that pitted degrees also represent blockage, and delay: the expression of a planet could be inhibited or blocked by being in a pitted degree, NOT NEGATED BY IT! So a time factor can come into play regarding planets (or Lots) in a pitted degree: a functional benefic in the natal chart in a pitted degree is NOT made unfortunate thereby!! It could mean that the expression of this functionally benefic planet will be inhibited or blocked FOR A TIME-but NOT blocked forever!! An example of this-although here involving a negative influence-can be seen in the natal chart of Marilyn Monroe: her Part of Suicide was in her natal 8th (whole sign) house-a very unfavorable placement for the Part of Suicide. Yet-did MM suffer repeated episodes of attempted suicide throughout her life? No-not at all; actually she had NO episodes of attempted suicide PRIOR TO HER ACTUALLY COMMITTING SUICIDE AT AGE 36 (in 1962) Why no previous attempts, since her Part of Suicide was there in the 8th house in the natal? Because her Part of Suicide WAS IN A PITTED DEGREE: the activation of this factor was BLOCKED-DELAYED-by the Part being in a pitted degree, and only "arose from its pit" many years (36 years) after her birth. So, pitted degrees often indicate blockage of expression over time, for planets or Lots, in them-NOT NEGATION of the influences of those planets or Lots.

In answer to Poyi's second question, no I do not think that the elevated and pitted degrees are different today than in ancient times; I have used the original degree indications from the oldtime books, and they have "worked" accurately enough for me to consider them valid for delineative and predictive purposes to the present time.

Thank you for explaining and answering my questions. My understanding from my Chinese chart, also indicates a late boomer and will boom a lot...lets hope I got it right and not booming at my waist line, the good old Jupiter! The best time should be around 40-60s.

How should we find the time lord? I am not familiar with this method. Anyhow, this is an off topic question! :surprised:

dr. farr · Dec 21, 2013

Time Lords are pretty much the equivalent of the mahadasha lords of the Vimshottari dasha system of mainstream Vedic astrology, although the Time Lords (these were used in Hellenic and Islamic/Medieval astrology) are determined by a much different method than in Vedic astrology (Vimshottari uses the sequence of planets following the nakshatra lord of the natal Moon to determine the mahadasha "time" lords)...methods for determining the Western astrology Time Lords, and their periods of influence, can be found in books on Hellenist (and Islamic transitional era) astrology.

may28gemini · Dec 21, 2013

tsmall said:
How many times can I in one evening. I was looking at the opposition to Saturn (recieved by Jupiter as you just proved) as a compromise between two oos planets...and the Square to the Sun as the impetus Jupiter needs.

Sorry about vagueness earlier. I was distracted from LAPD helicopters, screaming neighbors, and I was running on what little steam I had left after waiting 10 hours for my car to get fixed and emptying out my savings to pay for it.

Ahhh... when I mentioned earlier about Leo Jupiter functioning like Cancer Jupiter I did not mean that it turns into exalted Jupiter. It is and will always be Leo Jupiter, however due to factors of being in Jupiter's terms, accidental dignity, masculine, diurnal, etc. Leo Jupiter in the person's chart functions as a powerful benefic. Now...the thing is, she does have domiciled Saturn placed in an angular house and in Saturn's terms which opposes Jupiter. Jupiter is also in the face of Saturn... so basically her Jupiter operates at the behest of Saturn as he is stronger than her Jupiter. But since Saturn is dignified in his own right, he doesn't pull Jupiter down but Jupiter does not operate on his own with Saturn having a say.

As for my "damaged" Jupiter, I just offered that as another example that is similar to Lucypur- my Jupiter is tied to Saturn via conjunction which is even touted as being the worse thing ever and sits in Saturn's house (1st house) so my Jupiter also operates at Saturn's pleasure. My saving grace is that Saturn is exalted so he's not in an agitated state that he depresses Jupiter. The general concept of the greatest conjunction is that Jupiter can bonify Saturn but Saturn will malify Jupiter. However, I "attested" that my Saturn ruled Jupiter actually works fine...just not exactly in the "normal" Jupiteran way, but via Saturn's honorable prudence and judiciousness. Additionally, Jupiter and Saturn trine my Sun in the 9th house, the Sun's Joy.

Basically, in reality, if I am "good" I am rewarded twice (by both Saturn and Jupiter). I am mischievous but not rotten. However, when I am "bad," I get knocked down twice, as well.

Although I'm aware of pitted/dark/etc. degrees, I really don't give much credence to them. 0 Libra is the only pitted degree that's also critical. Critical planets are powerful in their own right, for better or worse.

may28gemini · Dec 21, 2013

poyi said:
Libra as the first sign and Jupiter in libra, so your Jupiter ruling the 3rd which is your local community, your sibling, your primary school etc. The damaged Jupiter reflects the malefic areas and from memories you have sadness from sibling which also got confirmed with your natal Mercury then secondly your stories of local neighbourhood and so on.

My Jupiter according to dr Farr information also in pitted degree in Sagittarius ruler of 4th and at IC also conjuncts south node the best example of this malefic condition was my grandfather my blood line from father side had to give up his lands to save his family from communists a landlord and family's legacy fallen. My grandfather was a great man, religious and supported orphans, but no matter how much my grandfather loved me, nurtured me in my early childhood, my own parents/family home were abusive and not religious at all. Personally I wished the pitted degree is not really that bad and I do get a bit confused with the south node combination. In early life the pitted degree was truly malefic yet a mixed of many fortune were still existing otherwise I wouldn't be able to move aboard!! so far since I moved abroad my life is getting much better also internally at peace and have great interest in spiritual matters expressed what Jupiter supposes to do being aboard and seek higher meaning of life, however still living by myself so don't know how it will play out when having a family. I did wonder about pitted degree should it remain malefic for the entire life? perhaps we should also investigate further as now people living much longer. The other question is if the degrees now different to ancient time.

Yes, my older brother died when I was very young and I was right next to him. Although I tend to have nice/good natured neighbors, I've never lived anywhere that didn't have a good amount of harm/violence. One of my closest friends committed suicide and I saw his body before it was officially discovered. Even at boarding school I possessed knowledge of some bullying others and I was pushed around too...except I always shoved back and usually I shoved others out the window (metaphorically). Before I am awarded by Jupiter, Saturn puts me through the ringer. However, I'm still happy-go-lucky. I'm alive and well. My cat loves and needs me. I maintain a positive outlook in life, even if I am really disgusted by people's stupidity/grossness. I don't give up, so Jupiter functions as he should.

I'm not sure your pitted Sagittarius Jupiter is any less powerful as Jupiter is in his own domicile and freely and happily runs amuck. Jupiter in 4th and conjunct IC (or so it would be in Whole Signs) is a native who comes from a protected roots and born with the integration of a generous "spirit." Jupiter upholds the moral principle of giving and when domiciled or exalted and conjuncts IC, he maintains that belief as the very root of his existence. You were born with Jupiter's greatest lessons already learned. Haha at the very same token, I was born with Saturn's greatest lessons already learned.

BTW, my domiciled Gemini Mercury is in a pitted degree and in the 9th house conjunct MC. Ahahahahaha I'm kinda "fuzzy" in comparison to other Gemini Mercury degrees but it is not "hindered" or "blocked." Mercury is home relaxing naked and "she" (feminine degree) doesn't care who knows :lol:

may28gemini · Dec 21, 2013

tsmall said:
poyi, I have my Moon, ruler of my MC, in pitted degree. It is, as dr. farr says, only one consideration among many. Moon pitted in 6th sign/house? I am totally and completely well respected in my field, but never reached the heights I wanted. Jupiter is exaltation ruler of my 10th and posited in 1st, and so I fall out ok. And at 44? With a peregrine Jupiter adhering to the the ASC...finally coming into my own, with actually a hope of a good career on the horizon.

The point is to work with your chart, and not against it. So often, we rail at the hand we are dealt. If we can understand it (prescience is useful) then we can bluff the house with a handfull of nothing more than a pair of deuces.

Ahhh...I feel some of what you speak of.

Ruler of my Cancer 10th house and MC is Pisces Moon in 6th house and in pitted degree, in Saturn's term, and in the face of Mars! Moon is opposite of Saturn (term) and sextile Mars (face). EEEKKKK!!

AHAHAHAHAHA I have gotten in a LOT of trouble in every job I've held where my temper flared up and I wanted to go on a smashing spree. My temper isn't ignited for the fun of it, I get sorely tested (opposite Saturn) and instead of being reserved, I opt for throwing more fuel at the fire (sextile Mars).

I try to work on my tempestuous Moon, but it's a violent ocean that's a bit tough to tame.

JUPITERASC · Dec 21, 2013

dr. farr said:
Time Lords are pretty much the equivalent of the mahadasha lords of the Vimshottari dasha system of mainstream Vedic astrology, although the Time Lords (these were used in Hellenic and Islamic/Medieval astrology) are determined by a much different method than in Vedic astrology (Vimshottari uses the sequence of planets following the nakshatra lord of the natal Moon to determine the mahadasha "time" lords)...methods for determining the Western astrology Time Lords, and their periods of influence, can be found in books on Hellenist (and Islamic transitional era) astrology.

dr. farr, you have studied astrology for more than forty years, so are more familiar with the mahadasha lords of the Vimshottari dasha system of mainstream vedic astrology than many of us are. Many thanks for these interesting comments

For use of Time Lords in Western Astrology both ancient and modern, here's a link to a useful information packed discussion
on the traditional and ancient technique of TIME LORDS http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6916&sid=f1b8655973e68f4742ada7c99fda6f5e

HELLENISTIC TIME LORD PROCEDURES

'….One of the fundamental concepts common to the many Hellenistic timing techniques is that of time lord.
The Greek word is chronocrator,
and this literally means a ruler of time.
When a planet becomes a time lord in an individual’s chart, it becomes activated
and that planet then rules over the affairs of the person’s life for a given period of time.

Whatever events that planet signifies in the natal chart are likely to occur when it is the time lord; and according to its placement, condition and configurations with other planets, those events will be more or less dramatic and more or less beneficial to the life.....' DEMETRA GEORGE http://www.demetra-george.com/HellenisticTimeLordProcedures.pdf

The 9th house

poyi

tsmall

dr. farr

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tsmall

poyi

dr. farr

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poyi

dr. farr

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may28gemini

may28gemini

may28gemini

JUPITERASC

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