I'm really sick of that virgo thing

Ok, I know it may sound weird or rather extreme, but i really don't like all the virgo influence in my chart. I honestly think that it is completely suffocating my leo energy (little as it might be), it makes me shy, slow to act (ah, this double-checking and overanalyzing of everything robs me from my enthusiasm and joy in the little things) and moody. I don't want it to be like this. On the top of it, things became really tough when my progressed sun changed signs and went in... virgo and now my leo energy is transformed by the virgo influence. Please, tell me that there is more in this sign! Sometimes I wish I had more diverse chart, but I'm stuck with all my personal planets in virgo, only my poor sun in leo, but alas locked in the 12th house. Venus in virgo always gave me hard time in love matters (picky, indecisive) and mars in virgo is rather a bad positions, because I usually turn the anger towards me and just keep it to myself. And I really don't want to start on my virgo moon, which is also squared by jupiter and saturn (I guess that's why my emotions are so hard to handle and seem to be redtricted by something). Maybe the best thing is my mercury in virgo. I want to have some hope that it is just a period of bad mood and it will pass, but that's my natal chart and even with the transits, things stay pretty much the same.

So, is there anyone with so much virgo influence? How do you handle it? Am I overdramatazing? Why can't I just let things happen and don't think that much? Why am I always concerned about myriad of little things, why I live in a fuss? There is nothing bad in perfectionism, but too much israther hard to handle, because usually things can't be perfect and plans usually are hard to see through and virgos plan a lot, I can tell. Lastly, is there anything in my chart which can outbalance the overly critical, pessimistic, down-to-earth, dull virgo? Your answers will be really appreciated!

Timshel said:

Ok, I know it may sound weird or rather extreme, but i really don't like all the virgo influence in my chart. I honestly think that it is completely suffocating my leo energy (little as it might be), it makes me shy, slow to act (ah, this double-checking and overanalyzing of everything robs me from my enthusiasm and joy in the little things) and moody.

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That is not a weird or extreme viewpoint at all. A lot of other people seem to dislike Virgo energies too, haha.

Timshel said:

I don't want it to be like this. On the top of it, things became really tough when my progressed sun changed signs and went in... virgo and now my leo energy is transformed by the virgo influence. Please, tell me that there is more in this sign!

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I think it's all in how you choose to utilize this energy. You may eventually actually be able to enjoy it if you find good outlets to express this part of yourself. As you already know, Virgo energy is precise, exact, analytical, discriminating, and "at your service". I'm sure that would be great for a heart surgeon, but it certainly isn't for everyone. Just like how being a heart surgeon isn't for everyone.

Timshel said:

Sometimes I wish I had more diverse chart, but I'm stuck with all my personal planets in virgo, only my poor sun in leo, but alas locked in the 12th house.

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Being the only fire sign planet in your chart, I think your Sun has a pretty strong urge to express it's self (especially since it's in the "Look at me!!" sign of Leo) but can't always do so because of the heavy, watery, and foggy nature of the 12th house. Also there is a very tight Sun/Pluto square in your chart which could also be an indicator of your internal power struggles over not just how you want to be viewed by others, but also how you want to feel about yourself. You can definitley find a solution, but it'll take some work, and soul-searching on your part.

Timshel said:

Venus in virgo always gave me hard time in love matters (picky, indecisive) and mars in virgo is rather a bad positions, because I usually turn the anger towards me and just keep it to myself.

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Ditto.

Venus is in fall in Virgo, not a good place for Venus at all. Venus wants love, socialization, beauty, and comfort. You know, the fine things. Virgo energy really clashes with the desires of Venus, which can make someone with a Venus in Virgo wayyy too analytical, and discriminating in love. Love doesn't think too hard and is usually often times blind, whereas Virgo hates action without at least a little bit of thought (or maybe a lot of it).
As far as your Mars goes...at least you aren't one of those people who become frustrated by something they did to themselves and then take it out on other innocent people. You should be a good worker though as long as it doesn't involve getting too dirty.

Timshel said:

So, is there anyone with so much virgo influence? How do you handle it? Am I overdramatazing?

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I have Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Mars in Virgo, all intercepted. I'm not sure why the cosmos sometimes does this to people, but I guess it something that we'll just have to deal with. I don't have too big of a problem with my own Virgo placements mainly because I don't always act all that much like a Virgo, or at least I don't think so. But I truly cannot stand when people act like stereotypical Virgo's!!! I wish "those people" would just chill out for once and stop being so particular about stupid **** that doesn't even really matter. I know some people who just can't help but behave in that manner. I find it unfortunate that so many people sweat the small stuff. I realize that precision is totally necessary sometimes, but at other times people just need to chill, imo.

Timshel said:

Why can't I just let things happen and don't think that much? Why am I always concerned about myriad of little things, why I live in a fuss? There is nothing bad in perfectionism, but too much israther hard to handle, because usually things can't be perfect and plans usually are hard to see through and virgos plan a lot, I can tell. Lastly, is there anything in my chart which can outbalance the overly critical, pessimistic, down-to-earth, dull virgo? Your answers will be really appreciated!

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Well I think you can either accept this part of yourself, or make some changes. I think changing may be difficult for you due to have 7 planets in Earth signs, 4 of which are in Virgo. It's tough to mute that heavy a concentration of a particular energy. And also because of the fixed nature of your Leo Sun and Scorpio Pluto which square each other. You may want change but have a tough time doing so.

You are the way you are for a reason though, so good luck figuring out why.

MTTY05, thanks for the analysis! Well, I guess I will have to cope with this. I feel ok now, I tend to be quite changeable, but now I'm better When I come to think about it, it's not that bad, I guess I was dramatizing too much the other day - I'm quite lucky to tell you the truth, I'm not sure where this comes from, but I really am, so this makes me happy and I should think more about that. And about the virgo energy, I guess a lot people don't like it, because they are always looking for perfection - in love matters, at work, in others because we give a lot and don't make a big deal about it, but it's the appreciation we want to feel. And when there is no appreciation from others, well, it's really frustrating. Others just don't care that much. I hope at least we earn a good karma for the lives to come, though hahaha.

Happy New Year, have a good one

Timshel said:

Ok, I know it may sound weird or rather extreme, but i really don't like all the virgo influence in my chart. I honestly think that it is completely suffocating my leo energy (little as it might be), it makes me shy, slow to act (ah, this double-checking and overanalyzing of everything robs me from my enthusiasm and joy in the little things) and moody. I don't want it to be like this. On the top of it, things became really tough when my progressed sun changed signs and went in... virgo and now my leo energy is transformed by the virgo influence. Please, tell me that there is more in this sign! Sometimes I wish I had more diverse chart, but I'm stuck with all my personal planets in virgo, only my poor sun in leo, but alas locked in the 12th house. Venus in virgo always gave me hard time in love matters (picky, indecisive) and mars in virgo is rather a bad positions, because I usually turn the anger towards me and just keep it to myself. And I really don't want to start on my virgo moon, which is also squared by jupiter and saturn (I guess that's why my emotions are so hard to handle and seem to be redtricted by something). Maybe the best thing is my mercury in virgo. I want to have some hope that it is just a period of bad mood and it will pass, but that's my natal chart and even with the transits, things stay pretty much the same.

So, is there anyone with so much virgo influence? How do you handle it? Am I overdramatazing? Why can't I just let things happen and don't think that much? Why am I always concerned about myriad of little things, why I live in a fuss? There is nothing bad in perfectionism, but too much israther hard to handle, because usually things can't be perfect and plans usually are hard to see through and virgos plan a lot, I can tell. Lastly, is there anything in my chart which can outbalance the overly critical, pessimistic, down-to-earth, dull virgo? Your answers will be really appreciated!

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Virgos are NOT dull! Sure they can be critical - not all are pessimistic (that isn't exactly a Virgo negative trait). Down to earth is good! Too much air isn't good either, nor too much fire, nor too much water - they all can have their downfalls! I do not think you would be dull with that Leo Sun/Asc Combo either with or without all the Virgo!
it makes me shy, slow to act (ah, this double-checking and overanalyzing of everything robs me from my enthusiasm and joy in the little things) and moody

Being moody is more of a water sign quality, your Moon is in Virgo. Virgos are not known for being moody, Slow to act? With mercury as the ruler? I doubt it. If anything Virgos might are too quick to act because of the Mercury - although they will think things through before they act usually (and why is this a bad thing? there are good reasons for this in many situations, You wouldn't want to charge ahead reckless without thinking like an Aries would you?). I think what you are thinking of is indecision which might result if you have any squares or oppositions to your Virgo Planets.

Why it is that you feel that Virgo is "robbing" you of your Leo energy? To take meaning in this, sounds like Leo energy = good and Virgo energy = bad. You need to look at the good in your Virgo energy. The things you site above do not sound like typical Virgo things.

Virgos get the worst stereotypes. It tends to be all towards the bad and they quickly can forget the good. If there is anything Virgo ISN't is a quitter. We have backbones of steel made to withstand things other signs might crumble under.

Yes, you got a lot of Virgo. Mercury in Virgo is awesome - the best place for it to be (better than Gemini I think - although I am biased) ! And it is in your First house so represent yourself as a quick thinker to the world around you. But I think that, except for the Venus, Virgo in the other signs (maybe Jupiter) aren't at Fall - they are just Virgo. It isn't bad or good. You need to look at the aspects for that and analyzed them (like a good Virgo can!) -any squares or oppositions. You have a lot of trines! I highly recommend you research into your aspects to your Virgo planets since it is a big part of your chart. (don't know how advanced you are? but cafe astrology has a free run of the chart that give some aspects analysis that will get you started http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/natal)

You have a Leo Rising and Sun - how powerful! And they are conjunct. Pretty nifty. You might want to look at fact that you have a lot in your first house and at the other planets that are in other signs. Saturn in Capricorn is just where it wants to be. Jupiter in Scorpio- perfect!

I will tell you I have Venus in Leo and it isn't any easier. I have too high expectations in love and I am almost always disappointed. Virgo is a very realistic sign - maybe you are not all romance (with a Leo sun and Asc though I doubt you don't have some) but at least you will be more logical about it. I don't think it sounds horrible at all. All the signs have there bad and good. Venus in Virgo is a very giving, devoted Venus that takes care of their partners. Lots of partners will like this! Try to look at the good stuff in Virgo (and yes, there is some!). My Virgo Sun is in my 10th - good for work!

That said, you have some planets in their rulers - I have NO planets that in their "best" signs but not in their falls either. If you have some, it may balance out those that in their falls. It looks like you only have the one in a fall. Chart here: http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/dignities.htm

The negative Virgo traits can be hard to fight. I know this. One thing I have been learning about lately, and you might want to look at if you haven't is your North (or True Node). You have a North Node in Aquarius, 7th house which means your South Node is in Leo in the 12th. This means you are try to focus on becoming more Aquarius in this life as you were very Leo in the last life. http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/02/aquarius-north-node.html

The humanatarian, visionary ideas you might have in your North Node - well, all those good Virgo qualities can help you achieve that in this life. Use it. There might be reason why you have all that Virgo where you do. It will help you.

See, I have Virgo South Node in 10th and North Node Pisces in 4th. So of course, I am over the top Virgo because that is what I am used too and yeah, it causes problems. But I need to focus on the positive Virgo (and dispel the negative traits) in order to get to my Pisces in my 4th house. So even though my lessons or goals for this life are to be less negative Virgo and more Pisces - I still need that positive Virgo energy to get there. This could be the case with you too.

Don't forget without us Virgo types the world would be quite a messy disorganized place and might not make much sense. It is a misunderstood sign but quite needed. Anyhow, I hope I helped you. - I might have rambled a bit. If it makes you feel any better, I read a book that said that actual Virgo IS the most interesting and exciting sign just because it is so hard to interpret. I felt tons better about my Virgo after hearing some alternative view of sign. So count yourself amongst the interesting and don't worry about the stereotypes and focus on the powerful Virgo qualities. You might be surprised!

queenfluff, thank you very much for what you've written It rose my spirit, and I was really feeling a little down lately. Well, if the swing in moods is not typical for virgo then there must be another reason - I guess I still feel the influence of uranus opposing my moon (it's a 4 degree separating aspect but it is still in power maybe). And yes by slow I mean that I'm slow to make up my mind about things, I just want the best out of everything - benefits, love, beauty, good standing, etc. and there are a lot of indications in my chart for this, not only the perfectionist virgo, but my leo sun and ascendant, the trine between neptune and venus, moon in second and venus in the first (yet close to the second, if I use the placidus system, but I prefer the equal sign system, mainly because of pluto's position in the third which I think corresponds better to my personality, but I'm not sure how to interpret the venus position - it works both ways).

About the 'good' leo stuff and the 'bad' virgo stuff - I didn't want it to sound in this way, I just want to see myself more as a leo, but alas I act primary as a cautious, calculating and caring (ooo, I really don't like this quality, 'leo talking' ) virgo. If there is something I'm not this is serving - yes, I can help, but only if I see that this person deserves it and is really in need. And if this help goes unnoticed, well, then I may just ignore the person for quite long.

The north node and the twelfth, well this is quite hard. I've read this about the position 'So you’ll want to leave behind: feeling yourself to be a victim, escapism and addictive tendencies, withdrawal and feelings of inadequacy, oversensitivity and the avoidance of planning. The qualities for you to develop are: bringing order to chaos, creating routines, focusing on the here and now, being of service to others, taking risks in spite of fears, and choosing to value and analyze details.' http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/09/south-node-twelfth-house.html
I found this when you mentioned the south node, thank you, I haven't done this research so far. What I've bolded - this is what I should work on - sometimes I just feel like everyone is acting against me and addictive tendences - well I have obsessions - very strong ones - with people, habbits, hobbies, when an idea gets into my head I never let go until I have resolved the issue connected with it. I guess I have pretty good idea about the detail, and living in order. I even think that I should not be afraid of the chaos and yes, maybe I should risk more, but to tell you the truth I have started, last year was quite adventurous for me, and this continues so far.

And yes, virgo has some good qualities, I admit. It just feels restricting sometimes. Maybe this comes from the fact that I'm a leo and these two are in a bit of a conflict, right? Leo wants grand success and applauses and virgo can just sit around and play the critic who is a little afraid to face his shortcomings, but still quite aware of them, trying very hard to hide them from others. In the end he finds out that others just don't give a hack about them and they are not as big as he may have thought. Leo is courageous and always wants more. And here comes the virgo: do I want too much? It's hard, my ambitions are too strong, but the strive for perfection is killing me. Sometimes you just can't live up to your ideals let alone someone else's.

I have only one question - you said that mercury in virgo is better than in gemini, why? I ask because I've been connected with a lot of gemini men, and I really have spent a lot of time researching the gemini qualities in planets, mercury as well. I have always competed with them and my love for them seems to have converted in some kind of an obsession - to be better than them (at least those whom I have met so far), and my ex has a lot to do with it . So, please, can you explain why virgo mercury is better because everywhere I read that mercury in gemini is the best? Again, thank you for the insightful comment!

I also have venus/moon/mars in virgo, haha. I was extremely shy when I was younger, but I feel Im getting more and more sociable with time. I see you are born in 1989, and Im born in 1985. I think maybe it might get better in time if you always meet new people. It worked for me, I mean with work and school, when you develop yourself in a social setting. I can also be more shy if I want to, and I think its charming too. When you get more self confidence it doesnt inhibit you so much. And analyzing isnt a bad thing always....As long as it doesnt drive you crazy ofcourse.

I don't think the problem is too much Virgo: your planets there are mostly well-aspected. With Venus in the first trine Neptune, you are probably very attractive, as well (Lucky you!) Even if your critical nature doesn't let you believe it. You also have Leo rising, and the ascendant is a huge part of your life.

I think the hugie in your chart is a very tight aspect of Pluto square sun. This aspect is constantly challenging you to reinvent yourself, and it is none too gentle about it.

This aspect is also about power relationships. When you are young you may feel that people are out to get you or put you down, but when you get older and the tables turn, you may find other people feel that you are constantly putting them down or getting picky with them as a way of controling them. So the best way to use this power is just to be constantly engaged in a quest for self-improvement. Both Leo and Virgo should like that. With your Virgo planets concentrated in the first and second houses, fitness activities and money management would appear to be two ways in which you can both help yourself, and also contribute to other people.

You might want to read up on goddess energies and the history of the constellation Virgo. This constellation is ancient, and over the course of astrological history she has symbolized many of the great earth goddesses.

A sun in Leo is in a quandary in the 12th house, because Leo is shouting, "I gotta be me!" in the traditional "house of self-undoing." Leo needs to get out there and be self expressive, yet the 12th house prefers to stay home in privacy. The key to the 12th house is to dedicate yourself to some higher purpose/s--be very altruistic. Many leading politicians have had their suns in the 12th house, but they construed their careers in terms of a higher goal or service to their constituents. And then Virgo knows all about service. Be known for your leadership in generosity to others, whether through volunteer work or your future career. When you put a higher purpose and other people first, they will repay you with the praise and attention that Leo enjoys.

You have a lot of earth in your chart, so you are able to assist other people in very practical, material ways.

I have Virgo rising and Saturn in Virgo.

Timshel said:

queenfluff, thank you very much for what you've written It rose my spirit, and I was really feeling a little down lately. Well, if the swing in moods is not typical for virgo then there must be another reason - I guess I still feel the influence of uranus opposing my moon (it's a 4 degree separating aspect but it is still in power maybe). And yes by slow I mean that I'm slow to make up my mind about things, I just want the best out of everything - benefits, love, beauty, good standing, etc. and there are a lot of indications in my chart for this, not only the perfectionist virgo, but my leo sun and ascendant, the trine between neptune and venus, moon in second and venus in the first (yet close to the second, if I use the placidus system, but I prefer the equal sign system, mainly because of pluto's position in the third which I think corresponds better to my personality, but I'm not sure how to interpret the venus position - it works both ways).

About the 'good' leo stuff and the 'bad' virgo stuff - I didn't want it to sound in this way, I just want to see myself more as a leo, but alas I act primary as a cautious, calculating and caring (ooo, I really don't like this quality, 'leo talking' ) virgo. If there is something I'm not this is serving - yes, I can help, but only if I see that this person deserves it and is really in need. And if this help goes unnoticed, well, then I may just ignore the person for quite long.

The north node and the twelfth, well this is quite hard. I've read this about the position 'So you’ll want to leave behind: feeling yourself to be a victim, escapism and addictive tendencies, withdrawal and feelings of inadequacy, oversensitivity and the avoidance of planning. The qualities for you to develop are: bringing order to chaos, creating routines, focusing on the here and now, being of service to others, taking risks in spite of fears, and choosing to value and analyze details.' http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/09/south-node-twelfth-house.html
I found this when you mentioned the south node, thank you, I haven't done this research so far. What I've bolded - this is what I should work on - sometimes I just feel like everyone is acting against me and addictive tendences - well I have obsessions - very strong ones - with people, habbits, hobbies, when an idea gets into my head I never let go until I have resolved the issue connected with it. I guess I have pretty good idea about the detail, and living in order. I even think that I should not be afraid of the chaos and yes, maybe I should risk more, but to tell you the truth I have started, last year was quite adventurous for me, and this continues so far.

And yes, virgo has some good qualities, I admit. It just feels restricting sometimes. Maybe this comes from the fact that I'm a leo and these two are in a bit of a conflict, right? Leo wants grand success and applauses and virgo can just sit around and play the critic who is a little afraid to face his shortcomings, but still quite aware of them, trying very hard to hide them from others. In the end he finds out that others just don't give a hack about them and they are not as big as he may have thought. Leo is courageous and always wants more. And here comes the virgo: do I want too much? It's hard, my ambitions are too strong, but the strive for perfection is killing me. Sometimes you just can't live up to your ideals let alone someone else's.

I have only one question - you said that mercury in virgo is better than in gemini, why? I ask because I've been connected with a lot of gemini men, and I really have spent a lot of time researching the gemini qualities in planets, mercury as well. I have always competed with them and my love for them seems to have converted in some kind of an obsession - to be better than them (at least those whom I have met so far), and my ex has a lot to do with it . So, please, can you explain why virgo mercury is better because everywhere I read that mercury in gemini is the best? Again, thank you for the insightful comment!

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Your welcome! I had a long quote and reply written and somehow I lost it! I'll try to redo.

Well, it isn't that Mercury in Virgo IS really better - it is just that I think it is better! It honestly depends on who you talk too. Or which constellation is older maybe? I have read that Virgo actual should belong to another planet (I read Vulcan) that is yet undiscovered. The two signs handle the energy of the planet differently - if you know any Geminis than I am sure you can see it. Geminis are more of the types to not think before they speak and Virgos DO. Geminis can be more flighty (being an air sign) while Virgo is more dependable. Both have their positives and negatives but I guess for me, I would prefer to handle my Mercury the Virgo way than the Gemini way. But than I could never understand Geminis and I don't get along with them. They are intelligent and I can debate with them under the table but I don't admire how ungrounded they can be. And oh, yes, if I debate them - I want to win. Because yes, all we Virgo think we are right (and we are alot! hehe) but Gemini tends to bring out the fight instinct in me and I think this is because we share the same planet (of course, as a Virgo I want my own planet. I hate sharing it with Gemini! ) As a Virgo, who researches her information to make sure I am correct and is keen on details, I often notice that the Geminis I know tend to speak before they have all the info and they get mad when I correct them and they don't like to admit they are wrong and will go off in pursuit of something else rather than look at what they might learn from me. I often wonder if Geminis hate having a Virgo around to correct their mistakes - even if we are just doing it to be helpful, they will get all weird about it. (again, this is my own experience with some Geminis. I might have meet some particularly stubborn ones who knows. )

Yes, it is true, I do not generally get along with Geminis - at least not for very long (they tend to be interested in me though esp. the opposite sex - I think they sense the Mercury and find it a challenge) This is probably because I am a Virgo but I just think it more sensible to handle the Mercury energy in the Virgo way than the Gemini way. I think the Virgo way you would be able to control it better - even the negatives. But others may see it differently. http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/7b84197c-a542-41a8-9055-2906d00b0ed3

Your wanting everything to be the "best" - that is a Virgo quality of perfectionism. I think it can be a good thing as long as you don't get too obessive with it. Nothing wrong with wanting things done right or having thngs a certain way. I believe this might be partially a Leo thing too. Leos like to have the finest things sometimes.

I hear ya. I tend to "over-serve" - at least I did in the past. I noticed I get irritated more easily if I feel my efforts are not appreciated as I get older because I know because of the North/South Node - I do need to focus on myself which being a Virgo I tend not to do. It is hard for me to say no because, as we know, Virgos will do it right (and that is hard for me to pass up because I hate to see others do something "wrong" so I figure I might well go in there and help and do it the best and right way!). I may be the sign of service but I am definately not a doormat. I will ignore people too if I feel they are taking advantage of my helpfulness a bit too much. I am pretty good at that too! I think that might be my Scorpio Rising though. I can be at extremes. Scorpio Rising can "ignore" forever!

I actually think Leo and Virgo are NOT at odds. According to the astro book I am reading right now, The InnerSky, Virgo is just the next step in transformation from Leo. It is about personal transformation, purity. Just think about it this way if Leo is about performing, creating and expressing well, the next step is Virgo - perfecting these things. With Leo, one has put themselves "out there" but with Virgo you go back in - it is more focuesd. I think when Leo gets out of control, Virgo is there is the background trying to keep things in check - focus on the details and make the Leo be more in control. You have more Virgo than Leo so that is why you see it the Virgo more. But I think if you look closely. You will see the Virgo more in the exact houses (areas of your life) than in your Leo areas. It is hard when everything blends together. After learning my natal chart and the placements, when I really looked back on myself, I was able to see each and everyone of those placements separately in those areas of my life. Before, I thought it was all Virgo and it never distinguished. But it definately explains what wasn't matching up. Don't like all my placements but when you are more aware of them, it is easier to control the "bad" parts of them.

Thank you guys for sharing all this with me! Queenfluff, of course we're better than geminis (I'm not a virgo but I have so much planets in this signs that I can easily relate). Geminis are interesting people but spending a lot of time with them - well, if you can handle their constant mood swings (I've noticed this is very true for all geminis I know) and overall changeability. But they are good discussion buddies And yes, I can totally relate to 'let me do this for you, I know better'-thing. Unfortunately, it turns out I am overburdened with all kind of stuff, but when I finish with everything I'm really happy. Somewhere I've read that the saddest picture is a virgo with no work to do.

Waybread, thank you! Well, I guess pluto plays some important role in my chart and I really can feel its influence. I have never got along with authorities (mainly teachers and professors, mind you I'm only 21). I've never been a favorite and I worked hard to get to the point I am. Also, many times people don't like me at first (pluto squares my ascendant as well) maybe because I prefer to listen and scrutinize them than show my true character. About venus trine neptune... well, I'm not thaaat beautiful, at least I don't see myself as such. I tend to think that genetics has more to do with it haha. But still I'm hard to get unnoticed - I'm 5'10'' and slender. I think charm may have more to do with astrology, but again, I'm not sure what aspects one should have to be charming - and, please don't give me the scorpio thing - I have many friends who are scorpio's or have scorpio ascendants and honestly I see more intimidating qualitites than charm or sexappeal.

You don't have it as bad as my virgo placement. You have the virgo energy working for you with so many good aspects. However me, I feel my virgo ascendant really kills my libra energy in my sun. Does anybody have some more insight on this sun/ascendant combination? I personally think it's really bad because they are opposites. But I would love to hear some good things about this combination if there is anything good that is. The only thing I can think of that's good is the libra rising progression but that won't happen until I'm 27 and that is a long time from now. So I would like to take advantage of my live now and maybe later with libra rising progressed things will get easier but I have to deal with the Now.

I think Mercury is exalted in Virgo ... can someone confirm this ?

Its so intriguing that Virgos and Geminis don't get along very well. I have a Virgo Sun+Mars+Mercury. I don't get along with Geminis too ... some how I find them flighty, lacking depth. Still I have 2 Gemini female friends (1 is a cousin actually). Its not that I dislike Geminis ... its simply I don't understand them.

There's another sign ... Sagittarius. But that's another story all together

well if its of any consolation to you, both mercury and mars are on the cusp of leo/virgo and since they are in your first house,you can learn to fire those energies up a bit. and also just look at all those mercury and mars nice trines!!

As crazy as this may going to sound,you can transfer it into piscean energy if you prefer since they are polar signs, and since you especially have your moon in virgo.

A more reasonable suggestion is working with your north node. It is a very powerful point in the chart (life path) and along with your sun,and I strongly believe it is the best focus to direct your energy to. So try to direct your energies on the leo/aquarius and the aries/libra polarities


As for dreamtimez:

Mercury in Virgo is quite intelligent,but I wouldn't be apt to say is exalted there. Aquarius is the genius of the zodiac,hands down. I believe so because virgo may be lost in the details and forget the big picture,Aquarius is genial for the ability to link things together and create things outta nowehre. I have also noticed that mercury in almost any sign in the 9th house is also very comfortable and indicates unusual intelligence.

danashock said:

As for dreamtimez:

Mercury in Virgo is quite intelligent,but I wouldn't be apt to say is exalted there. Aquarius is the genius of the zodiac,hands down. I believe so because virgo may be lost in the details and forget the big picture,Aquarius is genial for the ability to link things together and create things outta nowehre. I have also noticed that mercury in almost any sign in the 9th house is also very comfortable and indicates unusual intelligence.

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You have a point !

Where is Mercury in its fall ? As I believed Mercury is exalted in Virgo, its in its Fall in Pisces (opp. sign). But if Mercury is exalted in Aquaius then it must be in its fall in Leo (the opp. of Aquarius). Am I right ?

dreamtimez said:

I think Mercury is exalted in Virgo ... can someone confirm this ?

Its so intriguing that Virgos and Geminis don't get along very well. I have a Virgo Sun+Mars+Mercury. I don't get along with Geminis too ... some how I find them flighty, lacking depth. Still I have 2 Gemini female friends (1 is a cousin actually). Its not that I dislike Geminis ... its simply I don't understand them.

There's another sign ... Sagittarius. But that's another story all together

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Mercury is exalted in Virgo--at least according to Ptolemy (2nd century AD), the grand-daddy of traditional astrologers. Much of what we practice today can be traced to his work.

A planet always falls in the sign opposite its exaltation. Note that Mercury is also dignified (in the sign it rules) in Gemini and Virgo. Its detriment is the opposite sign. Sagittarius, for example, has a lot to do with faith, rather than detailed critical thinking.

Note Virgo's concern with perfection. Also, Mercury rules the hands as well as the mind. This fits in well with Virgo's rulership of many kinds of handicrafts.

I don't know who developed the idea that Mercury is exalted in Aquarius. But I like it!

The issue with Virgo energy (and I have Venus in Virgo), is that it can be incredibly self-absorbed. Any sign below the horizon is inclined to be more inward focused, but Virgo is unique in that is the second of the three Earth Signs, and it is still below the horizon, the way Leo is of the fire signs.

The Fire and Earth energies are self-focused, and much more content than Water and Air to stay absorbed on what they are associated with. Even though Sagittarius and Capricorn are above the horizon, they are still very "duty-bound," as Sag is ruled by Jupiter, which is associated with self-sustaining and self-propagating Institutions, and Capricorn is goal-orientated on the whole.

By contrast, Water energies are about movement first and foremost, as are Air energies, and both look for social interactions as part and parcel of what they do. Even Cancer, which is below the horizon, is about other people, the family, as is Gemini, which is about basic communication. These two identify with things that are connected to others, on an absolute and basic level. Virgo likes to serve, but they identify with that role, not like Cancer, which can assume a role, but only towards specific people with specific intentions.


That said, Leo and Virgo still struggle, because while Aries and Taurus find it satisfying to be at this level, Leo and Virgo look for something more. Leo needs an audience, and Virgo needs to be at the service of something or someone. Virgo especially since it sits right before Libra, strives for some kind of relationship, but it typically centers around a responsibility of sorts, whereas Leo has it a bit easier because it simply needs a stage of sorts.

With so many planets in Virgo, you're being given an opportunity to examine what its like to be at the service of someone, without relating on a emotional level, and the limits of that. You are much more comfortable with details than the larger picture, and you aren't inspired so much as you are reactive and receptive. You can be uncaring, and this is because it serves your purposes much better not to care, but to be concerned. Virgo energy is inclined not to be supportive, but to offer support, and that is something altogether different.

If anything, I think what bothers you is how your Virgo Moon nurtures your Leo Sun. A Leo Sun wants to be appreciated, adored, stroked like the cat it is, and respected for its strength, prowess, and magnetism. If your Sun is to feel whole with a Virgo Moon as its support, its reflection, its magnification (for the Moon magnifies the Suns rays), then the key here is to compromise.

What I think bothers you the most is the confusion here between your Sun and Moon, which highlights those undesirable Virgo qualities. The thing is, with Leo, the energies can be highly inconsiderate and self-absorbed, and Virgo can make up for this with their focus to the details and attention to things which don't have to do with them, but the situation they are serving. Now again, Virgo energy is self-absorbed (it is not the negotiating, amicable kind of Libra), but it wants to be at service and help, and is willing to become fully absorbed or emeshed in that, to identify with that, whereas the Leo refuses to let anything become bigger than itself. In this way these two are very different, but the Virgo has a lot to offer the Leo Sun here. You more aware of things than most Leos and able to dedicate your Solar energies to unique Leo pursuits. You'd make a good lawyer with this chart, or anyone who has a lot of administrative duties. Or really, more of what I mean to say, is that these energies can work synergistically well together. This is certainly the makings of a "one-person-show."


I just noticed you mentioned wanting to be a heart surgeon. This is transformative work, and regenerative, which is great for a Sun square Pluto, I believe. Leo rules the heart, so there you go, and Virgo is ruled by Mercury, which is associated with the hands. A good choice. Doctors also need to care, but be detached, which is precisely how you are.

dreamtimez said:

You have a point !

Where is Mercury in its fall ? As I believed Mercury is exalted in Virgo, its in its Fall in Pisces (opp. sign). But if Mercury is exalted in Aquaius then it must be in its fall in Leo (the opp. of Aquarius). Am I right ?

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Yes you are right =) Mercury in leo is in its fall i believe because it can be a prey for subjectivity,and like its fellow fire signs may jump into conclusions too quick/impulsively. However,i think mercury in leo can also be very creative (especially when making an aspect to uranus).

I guess i will leave it here so we dont go off topic and spam the thread LOL

danashock said:

Yes you are right =) Mercury in leo is in its fall i believe because it can be a prey for subjectivity,and like its fellow fire signs may jump into conclusions too quick/impulsively. However,i think mercury in leo can also be very creative (especially when making an aspect to uranus).

I guess i will leave it here so we dont go off topic and spam the thread LOL

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I know this a thread about Virgo, but you mentioned Mercury in Leo, and being someone who has it, I can't pass up this opportunity to talk about me. Hahah I'll say that Mercury in Leo is definitely in its fall, but I wouldn't describe it as too quick or impulsive. I blame my tendency to be that way on a combination of factors, and one planet cannot make that tendency show. Plus, though Leo is a fire sign, it doesn't immediately make that energy impulsive, since this is also fixed energy, and refers to the long, slow burn of fire, the heat, and the strength. Catching a spark and going with it is much more Aries, whereas Leo is about keeping the fire burning, and Sag is about which direction to go once the flame takes hold.

That said, since this is about Virgo qualities, I will say I really envy Virgo energies because of the association with Mercury. Having a Mercury in Leo is VERY frustrating!

LonelyRed, let me offer a few counterpoints to your next-to-last post.

1. Signs technically do not occur in fixed positions below the horizon. Houses do. From a geocentric perspective, signs would appear to rotate above the earth. This is how we can get 12 rising signs within a 24-hour day.

Some modern astrologers conflate signs and houses, such that they seem to think it makes no difference whether a planet is in, say, Virgo or the 6th house. (I am not saying you do this.) I think it makes a huge difference. For one thing, signs indicate how a planet operates, and a house indicates a particular domain of activity. Discrimination and perfection-seeking are good key words for Virgo; whereas the 6th house deals with work, service, and health. A good book on this point is Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.

2. The usual way of looking at the four elements are:
fire=energy and initiative
earth=matter (hence practicality, material orientation)
air=mental
water=emotions, feelings.

A good book on how the elements function in a chart is Stephen Arroyo, Astrology, Psychology, and the Four Elements.

These 4 elements go way back to ancient times. More recently, they show up in Tarot cards (cups=water, swords=air, wands=fire, earth=discs/pentangles) and the Meyers-Briggs personality test (thanks to Carl Jung).

Also, it doesn't really work to conflate elements with the triplicities. [You address them in your latest post.] Cardinal signs should be more initiative-taking. Fixed signs are invested in stability. Mutable signs are interested in change, but in the sense of adaptation or (in Virgo's case) straightening-up after people. So we have to sort out the differences between, say, a cardinal air sign and a fixed fire sign and a mutable earth sign.

I think it does make sense, therefore, to suggest that Virgo can be "concerned" without being "caring" if we associate concern with a pragmatic (earth) and improvement-oriented sign; and emotional connection with the water sign Cancer.

3. The notion of an evolutionary cycle of signs was popularized by theosophical astrologers like Dane Rudhyar, but there isn't much evidence for it in the lives of real people.

4. It is important to distinguish between the qualities of signs as abstractions and how they play out in individual lives. However, plenty of Leos adjust nicely to roles that could be described as subservient. They have to in their jobs, until or unless they become the boss; and Leo children with strict parents aren't going to be treated as though they rule the house. But I absolutely agree that the best way to get along with Leos if you share living space with them is to let them feel they're the best in any area of life that is important to them.

Each sign has its strong and weak points. Virgo has no more of them than any other sign.

LONELYRED

I’m going to have to disagree with a lot of what you said, virgos are not self-absorbed, I know this because I have venus my ascendant ruler and mars in 12 house virgo. The issue with virgos if anything is about expectation and reputation. That’s way venus is in its fall here, if it doest live up to its reputation then it literally can falls from grace. The expectation can also lead to insecurities or projected on to others.

A sense of duty is not a bad thing and if everyone had that the world would be a better place, for me it’s for my family, that duty comes from a genuine need to help others. I know for myself I feel guilty if I say no to someone who needs my help, but I am sure that could be said for a lot of people.

Duty and caring for others is not mutually exclusive.

waybread said:

LonelyRed, let me offer a few counterpoints to your next-to-last post.

1. Signs technically do not occur in fixed positions below the horizon. Houses do. From a geocentric perspective, signs would appear to rotate above the earth. This is how we can get 12 rising signs within a 24-hour day.

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No, technically they don't.

waybread said:

Some modern astrologers conflate signs and houses, such that they seem to think it makes no difference whether a planet is in, say, Virgo or the 6th house. (I am not saying you do this.)

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Nope, I don't do that. That would make absolutely no sense. I was intending more to isolate and focus on Virgo Energies and Leo Energies for the sake of the OP.

waybread said:

I think it makes a huge difference. For one thing, signs indicate how a planet operates, and a house indicates a particular domain of activity.

Discrimination and perfection-seeking are good key words for Virgo; whereas the 6th house deals with work, service, and health. [/I].

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I had meant to show that in isolating and examining Virgo, we can look at how it works in the larger sense in relationship to other signs, and its placement within THAT context. Thus, if Aries is first, and begins that cycle, Virgo is 6th and below the horizon. I'm admittedly struggling to explain myself, but I was more concerned with trying to examine Virgo within its initial setting, so the OP could understand where their energies come from. My point of reference in a large sense was Linda Goodman. Virgo is dignified, if that is the word to use, within the 6th house, and Virgo tendencies do well with 6th house tasks, thus, I thought if one wants to explore Virgo, may as well go back to its pure-ist source, and understand it from there. In the cycle of soul development, Virgo is associated with the 6th house, and if one is looking to examine their Virgo qualities, may as well also understand how Virgo fits within the larger context of Astrology to begin with. The 6th house and Virgo are not one in the same, but you know as well as I do, that the initial association is there but can be completely changed and re-worked. I suppose I was holding up this OP's chart to a "dignified chart" of some sort.

waybread said:

Also, it doesn't really work to conflate elements with the triplicities. [You address them in your latest post.] Cardinal signs should be more initiative-taking. Fixed signs are invested in stability. Mutable signs are interested in change, but in the sense of adaptation or (in Virgo's case) straightening-up after people. So we have to sort out the differences between, say, a cardinal air sign and a fixed fire sign and a mutable earth sign.

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Oh do I conflate? I had not intended to. Perhaps I was not clear, since I wasn't addressing anyone but the initial poster, in regards to their chart and their concerns. I did intend to make this distinction of course, through my processing, which you agree with here:

waybread said:

I think it does make sense, therefore, to suggest that Virgo can be "concerned" without being "caring" if we associate concern with a pragmatic (earth) and improvement-oriented sign; and emotional connection with the water sign Cancer.

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Exactly.

waybread said:

3. The notion of an evolutionary cycle of signs was popularized by theosophical astrologers like Dane Rudhyar, but there isn't much evidence for it in the lives of real people.

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Thanks for this. I didn't intend to suggest it could be evidenced. I thought what I was saying was really abstract, since I know for me, when I get down about my stuff in my chart, and I lose sight of the bigger picture, sometimes it helps to take a really big step back, look at the astrology away from my chart (hence going back to the basic "dignified" chart of Virgo in the 6th), and re-absorbing what i know about the signs, to learn more. This is why I started to, I guess, "conflate" the elements with the triplicities and stuff, and to talk about the houses again. It sometimes helps to remember that this stuff exists in a certain way, and I am my own off-shoot of these energies in a unique pattern.

I'm not sure if we "disagree" so much waybread, as I wasn't clear with what I was doing, but you do make good counter-points, obviously.

Also- no sign is any worse or better than the other. Any implications on my end of such are wrong and an issue with my clarity.

-LR