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  #26  
Unread 07-29-2015, 04:11 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Originally Posted by positivevibes View Post
What was her Moon and Mercury in?

I know a guy with A Taurus Moon(Super laid back) Mercury and Venus in Gemini(Witty,Smart and Funny) Ascendant in Libra(Pretty boy type) and was soooo cool and unassuming

But he had 1st house Pluto that opposed his Moon,Mars square Mercury,Uranus,Saturn and was really violent when mad,actually when he got mad and beat people up,people were so shocked because they never thought he had that side in him.
She had Moon in Libra in the 11th and Mercury in Gemini, also in the 8th with the Sun.

Yeah, that Libra Ascendant and Taurus Moon, and even the Gemini can mask the shadier and darker influences in a chart. It's only when they're triggered do they come out. People are dual in nature; in my opinion, whether the harder aspects are there or not, any human has the potential to be violent. Transits especially and progressions can draw things out.

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  #27  
Unread 07-29-2015, 04:52 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Mercury square or opposition to Mars makes people quick-witted, sharp and alert, quick-tempered, impulsive and excitable, liable to jump at conclusions and act before they think....
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I know someone with that aspect,and what the author wrote is almost exactly correct,who knows tho,so much depends on one's whole chart,because I'm pretty sure there are people with Merc/Mars hard aspect who has never showed those tendencies
I have that aspect--Mercury/Mars square--and that doesn't really describe me. I am good with words, and most likely to be verbally aggressive if I'm aggressive at all, which I'm usually not. Quick witted, sharp and alert? Maybe I am sometimes. Quick-tempered, impulsive, and excitable? Not very impulsive, although I think it's because I think faster than I act. Liable to jump at conclusions and act before thinking? Only when I'm under extreme stress, in my experience. Stressful situations make my thinking shut down.

Now here are the placements: I have Mars in Gemini and Mercury in Virgo. Slow, practical Virgo in square with quick witted Gemini, both ruled by Mercury. Mercury in Virgo is very detail oriented, needs to think things through. Mars in Gemini strikes me as a very impulsive placement. I think if I didn't have anything putting the brakes on, I probably would be much more impulsive. If I look at my chart overall, it seems like there are lots of impulsivity circuits fired up but not connecting.
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  #28  
Unread 07-29-2015, 06:17 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

Osamenor, I wish the original text was still visible. It was much longer and essentially said that everyone should stay the hell away from anyone with Mars square Merc
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  #29  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:37 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Yeah, apparently showing him that I had caught wise to his emotionally abusive tactics and was more difficult to manipulate than everyone else around him was not what he had in mind when he said he liked "intelligence." It's weird how many people mistake people agreeing with you as "intelligence."

I would not say Mars square Mercury is violent, or even dominating. It's more... argumentative. The idea that arguing is "bad" varies by culture and subculture. A gentler, sensitive soul might not get it, I don't know.
Yes people who are really manipulative HATE when they come across someone they can't manipulate and will think for themselves.

Mars square Mercury,I would say isn't "Physically" Violent,but it could very well give one Violent thoughts
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  #30  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:40 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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She had Moon in Libra in the 11th and Mercury in Gemini, also in the 8th with the Sun.

Yeah, that Libra Ascendant and Taurus Moon, and even the Gemini can mask the shadier and darker influences in a chart. It's only when they're triggered do they come out. People are dual in nature; in my opinion, whether the harder aspects are there or not, any human has the potential to be violent. Transits especially and progressions can draw things out.
Yep,because those placements mask his "other" side extremely well,one would never know he's capable of violence.

I agree,any human can be violent,just takes the right thing to tick them off,but "How" violent is the question.

But then again I've seen people punched in the face and absolutely do nothing,so not sure if everyone is capable of violence,but I do believe people with hard mars aspects are possibly quicker to use violence
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  #31  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:42 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Osamenor, I wish the original text was still visible. It was much longer and essentially said that everyone should stay the hell away from anyone with Mars square Merc
So should people with Mars square Merc stay away from other people with Mars square Merc?

You and I both have it... maybe we actually get along!
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  #32  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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I have that aspect--Mercury/Mars square--and that doesn't really describe me. I am good with words, and most likely to be verbally aggressive if I'm aggressive at all, which I'm usually not. Quick witted, sharp and alert? Maybe I am sometimes. Quick-tempered, impulsive, and excitable? Not very impulsive, although I think it's because I think faster than I act. Liable to jump at conclusions and act before thinking? Only when I'm under extreme stress, in my experience. Stressful situations make my thinking shut down.

Now here are the placements: I have Mars in Gemini and Mercury in Virgo. Slow, practical Virgo in square with quick witted Gemini, both ruled by Mercury. Mercury in Virgo is very detail oriented, needs to think things through. Mars in Gemini strikes me as a very impulsive placement. I think if I didn't have anything putting the brakes on, I probably would be much more impulsive. If I look at my chart overall, it seems like there are lots of impulsivity circuits fired up but not connecting.
The description for Mars square Merc was ALOT longer,but I think the tighter the square the more the tendencies are there,the looser the square the tendencies might be harder to activate or may take a while to kick in.

Once again you have to look at how tightly or close the planets are in those hard aspects to see how much it affects you.

On one hand we might have a person with a mars square mercury and the orb value of the square is 0,while the other person with that aspect orb value may be 6, the person with the 0 surely will get angry alot quicker and feel those tendencies alot more than the other person
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  #33  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:46 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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So should people with Mars square Merc stay away from other people with Mars square Merc?

You and I both have it... maybe we actually get along!
Depends on the orb value yours may be alot stronger/weaker than his
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  #34  
Unread 07-29-2015, 07:48 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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The description for Mars square Merc was ALOT longer,but I think the tighter the square the more the tendencies are there,the looser the square the tendencies might be harder to activate or may take a while to kick in.
Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.
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  #35  
Unread 07-29-2015, 08:29 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.
Could very well be,do you have any other hard mars aspects?
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  #36  
Unread 07-29-2015, 09:28 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.
My father is born a couple of days before you and he is the most self-controlled person I know. But he does have a penchant for violence and a volcanic temper.

When he was younger he would beat up kids to a bloody pulp when they got on his nerves. Even his sense of humor was violent -- one time he put some glass in a mud puddle and dared his older brother to run through it... the outcome was not pretty.

These days he isn't liable to bash people's heads in if they upset him but anyone who interacts with him knows that his boundaries are strong and will be enforced.

So not an impulsive guy, but some key planets are different between both the charts (yours and his).
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  #37  
Unread 07-29-2015, 10:10 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Could very well be,do you have any other hard mars aspects?
No other squares. Some people looking at my chart have said Mars and Mercury were part of a t-square, because Mercury also squares a conjunction of the moon and Neptune in Sagittarius. However, the moon is definitely out of orb of opposition with Mars--15 degrees--and Neptune is only within orb of opposition if you cast extremely loose orbs. It's at 9 degrees Sag, while Mars is at 0 Gemini.
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  #38  
Unread 07-29-2015, 11:27 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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So should people with Mars square Merc stay away from other people with Mars square Merc?

You and I both have it... maybe we actually get along!
Well, let me find the full description. I copy and pasted what was left and found the full description Positivevibes first posted at this site.

It's over 100 words long, so I will try to pare it down to the parts that caught my eye originally...

Quote:
[...] they are either feared or hated by those who are unfortunate enough to be bound to them by environment; all who can, shun them. They are bullies who are bound either to rule or ruin wherever they are, and they allow no obstacle to stand in their way which can be removed either by force or slander. They are the acme of selfishness, swagger and consummate egotism. The foregoing tendencies may of course be modified by other aspects, but if they are not, such people are a menace to society.[...]
Emphasis mine.

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Originally Posted by positivevibes View Post
Yes people who are really manipulative HATE when they come across someone they can't manipulate and will think for themselves.
Yes, I am very aware of this. However, in such situations, rebellion can stretch beyond simple self-preservation and into moral imperative.

I do wonder if you keep trying to pare down who is truly violent (as in, by tighter orb of 'violent aspects') because of their chart and who is not in an attempt to reassure yourself in your sorting. I feel like I should warn you that life doesn't really work that way. If you just casually look through the charts of some murderers, for example, you'll see that some have these tight, stereotypically "violent" aspects and that many do not.

It is not what you have but how you use it, as they say...
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  #39  
Unread 07-29-2015, 11:53 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Well, let me find the full description. I copy and pasted what was left and found the full description Positivevibes first posted at this site.

It's over 100 words long, so I will try to pare it down to the parts that caught my eye originally...



Emphasis mine.



Yes, I am very aware of this. However, in such situations, rebellion can stretch beyond simple self-preservation and into moral imperative.

I do wonder if you keep trying to pare down who is truly violent (as in, by tighter orb of 'violent aspects') because of their chart and who is not in an attempt to reassure yourself in your sorting. I feel like I should warn you that life doesn't really work that way. If you just casually look through the charts of some murderers, for example, you'll see that some have these tight, stereotypically "violent" aspects and that many do not.

It is not what you have but how you use it, as they say...

No,my whole take on hard mars aspects is not that everyone who has those aspects are violent,pretty sure it's plenty of people with those aspects who never had a physical fight in their life.

And there's people who have no hard mars aspects who probably have been in physical fights alot.

I just think people with hard mars aspects and tight squares/low orbs are the type who will fight back if need be and have no problem doing it,I just believe violence may come more natural to them,even if they never been in a fight,where as people with no mars aspects or loose squares may not be naturally be as quick to use violence if they have to.

Hard mars aspects are not the end all,be all when it comes to violence,but I do think it for sure tells if one can get violent with no second guessing if they have to.
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  #40  
Unread 07-29-2015, 11:54 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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My father is born a couple of days before you and he is the most self-controlled person I know. But he does have a penchant for violence and a volcanic temper.

When he was younger he would beat up kids to a bloody pulp when they got on his nerves. Even his sense of humor was violent -- one time he put some glass in a mud puddle and dared his older brother to run through it... the outcome was not pretty.

These days he isn't liable to bash people's heads in if they upset him but anyone who interacts with him knows that his boundaries are strong and will be enforced.

So not an impulsive guy, but some key planets are different between both the charts (yours and his).
What does his chart look like?
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  #41  
Unread 07-30-2015, 04:49 AM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

He doesn't have the stereotypical violent aspects but we already know that astrology doesn't work that way.

His Mars is in Taurus and on the 29th degree. It's conjunct the south node and is square his Mercury Virgo which is at 2 degrees. Don't know his tob so can't tell you which house his Mars falls.

I think for violence to be in the cards, the whole chart has to be analyzed. Then there is case of the reason behind the violence. Some may use it to further their agenda whilst others may be violent because they are unable to control themselves/anger. At one point beating your children was encouraged; violence for the purpose of correcting unacceptable/rude behaviour. Culture, basic mindset, war/peacetime, stress levels ... all of these play into the use of violence or not.

Sure this person may have mars opposite pluto and that person may have mars square uranus but one aspect won't turn them into a raging homicidal maniac or a cold-blooded murderer.
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  #42  
Unread 07-30-2015, 01:50 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

From my Observation and research in astrology.

- Very often Mars Saturn specially Concjunction and Opposition. is Physical Violence against Weaker- Like Children, or Violence against Womens from Men, Husband or Father, or is it self. Often leads by Women to misandry because the own will feel blocked by them. Very ruthless.

- Mars Uranus is Specially. They took the fault everytime to Others and dont want or cannot see his own faults, never, and provoke disput or a brawl, and of course the others have the fault

- Mars Neptune is very problemtic. its Violence for Idealism like racism or religous pursuit, in some cases also Mars Uranus like Anders Behring Breivik's motivation was.

Mars Pluto - in mostly all cases that i find, they make the experience of Violence in the Childhood, or his Parent Home is in a latent aggressive quarter of the City / Slum or Nation, where the Mars Pluto is not Welcome the people or parents feel a threat from his own shadow project to the children who have born with Ma/Pl. A Pariah in Indish Culture.
Its a Long Time anger that lies on the Ground and can Break through with berserk behavior - Amok konstellation like James Holmes or Andres Lubitz.
Violence because of Procjections.

Last edited by Hephaistos; 07-30-2015 at 02:08 PM.
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  #43  
Unread 07-30-2015, 03:47 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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My father is born a couple of days before you and he is the most self-controlled person I know. But he does have a penchant for violence and a volcanic temper.
Your father was only 20 when you were born? Or is his birthday two days before mine but a different year?

Mars transited to Gemini the day before I was born. If your father is literally two days older than me, his Mars would be in the last degree of Taurus, about to transit. That should give it the extra power and volatility of a planet at 29 degrees--not quite sure whether it's a Taurus or Gemini, it acts like some of both. Mercury would be a degree or two closer to Mars, so a tighter square.

And if he's two days older than me, he probably has the moon in Scorpio (mine is in the middle of Sagittarius). Very likely, he has a different rising sign from me, too. Capricorn rising is not very impulsive!
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  #44  
Unread 07-30-2015, 03:52 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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He doesn't have the stereotypical violent aspects but we already know that astrology doesn't work that way.

His Mars is in Taurus and on the 29th degree. It's conjunct the south node and is square his Mercury Virgo which is at 2 degrees. Don't know his tob so can't tell you which house his Mars falls.
I just saw this post... your father is two days older than me.

Mars on the south node, from what I've read, can spell a penchant for violence. If we read the south node indicators as a past life story, it can indicate having committed violence in a prior life, and still be carrying that karma, and possibly that tendency, too. It can also indicate having been a victim and internalized the violence. Anyhow, with or without a past life explanation, what's on the south node is innate within us, and any story we get out of that typically has some echo in the current life.

I think my echo is internalized violence, of the verbal variety. That's what I see in my current life. But I have Mars in Gemini. Taurus is a much more physical sign, so there probably would be a predilection for physical violence if Mars in Taurus is in a hot spot like that (Gemini, in contrast, would be verbal violence).
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  #45  
Unread 07-31-2015, 04:49 AM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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I just saw this post... your father is two days older than me.

Mars on the south node, from what I've read, can spell a penchant for violence. If we read the south node indicators as a past life story, it can indicate having committed violence in a prior life, and still be carrying that karma, and possibly that tendency, too. It can also indicate having been a victim and internalized the violence. Anyhow, with or without a past life explanation, what's on the south node is innate within us, and any story we get out of that typically has some echo in the current life.

I think my echo is internalized violence, of the verbal variety. That's what I see in my current life. But I have Mars in Gemini. Taurus is a much more physical sign, so there probably would be a predilection for physical violence if Mars in Taurus is in a hot spot like that (Gemini, in contrast, would be verbal violence).
Yeah his Mars has definitely played a huge role in his life. He has always done physically demanding work and he has incredible stamina. Even his outlook is influenced by the Taurus Mars (pragmatic, no-nonsense, solid) which I think has as much to do with its placement as well as its aspect to mercury. Do to his overall demeanor I'm leaning towards him having a Taurus or Cap ASC.

One similarity I see between the two of you is story-telling. He loves to recount tales from his life and impart knowledge to people, all while keeping it full of humour and fun. The way you read charts is pretty story like especially when you focus on the nodes. I find it a pretty cool parallel.

Speaking of parallels the south node in my chart is located in Aries (Mars) in the 4th (father). Another neat parallel.
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  #46  
Unread 07-31-2015, 09:42 AM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

HellO!

Hello!

:alien:

Hello!;)


Mars-Pluto, Mars-Saturn, Mars-Neptune makes people violent? YES, but only partially (Think!)
It makes people violent only, when they're bad-aspected by environment, structure-lessness, and parents! Not in other cases.
End.
Trust Me.
+
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Unread 07-31-2015, 03:58 PM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

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Yeah his Mars has definitely played a huge role in his life. He has always done physically demanding work and he has incredible stamina. Even his outlook is influenced by the Taurus Mars (pragmatic, no-nonsense, solid) which I think has as much to do with its placement as well as its aspect to mercury. Do to his overall demeanor I'm leaning towards him having a Taurus or Cap ASC.
I'm a Cap rising. If your dad also is, then he and I have almost the same chart. House placements might be a little different depending on the degree of Cap rising and difference in birth location, but the way you described your dad, it sounded to me like he and I have different rising signs. If his is late Taurus, he could have Mars conjunct the AC, which it sounds like to me, the way you describe that very obvious Mars influence.

Do you know whether he was born in the daytime or nighttime, morning or evening, etc? If so, that would help narrow it down.

It's neat that we have the same penchant for storytelling. I'd thought the astrological factors for me might be strong Mercury in detail oriented Virgo (Mercury is the final dispositor of everything in my chart except the sun, and likely the same for your dad) and maybe Gemini Mars? And maybe my eighth house sun, and eighth house Mercury, too? Eighth house deals with archetypes, which I would see as including storytelling.
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Unread 08-01-2015, 12:57 AM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

Unfortunately, he doesn't care enough to have that info and my grandmother is equally disinterested.

As to the positions of the planets, I do think that mercury's power in both of your charts have a lot to do with it. The applying conjunction to Venus would add 'pleasantness' or 'artistry' to the mercury function. You have the added features of a Gemini Mars/Sag Moon which are more mental in orientation. Neptune's position in both of your charts has a say as well. IIRC you have some action in the 12th/8th house so you got the unconscious to pull from (correct me if I'm wrong).

Lest we forget you both possess the Leo sun which colours your personality with some urge to express/dramatic flair.

With the leonine core + strong mercurial bent story-telling is a befitting outlet for your (and his) energies.
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  #49  
Unread 08-01-2015, 03:12 AM
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Angry Re: Violence in a natal chart

(angry face doesn't mean I'm angry, LOL)

I came upon a YT video on the Mars square Saturn aspect. Personality traits such as violence, tyranny, anger, rage and inability to relate with people. Not all Mars square Saturn people are like that, more like what's commonly found from many studied astrological profiles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UahUjxa7LKI
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 08-01-2015, 03:21 AM
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Re: Violence in a natal chart

It's strange that I have almost every last one of the aspects mentioned. I'm not sure what to think.

Last edited by graay ghost; 08-01-2015 at 06:19 AM.
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