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Vocational Astrology Discuss finding out more about your work, job, career, calling, or whatever you do or want to do for a living.


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  #1  
Unread 04-26-2015, 12:08 AM
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Seeking New Career

Usual story for this board: I'm seeking a new career... not that I've really had an old one! I've had lots of jobs but never felt I could make a real career out of any of them. I have a liberal arts bachelor's degree and absolutely no interest in graduate school, although I wouldn't mind taking a class or short training program if it were something I was interested in and I had the means to do it.

What I've gotten from previous analyses of my chart is that Uranus at the midheaven needs lots of variety (true for me), sixth house cusp in Gemini indicates impatience with routines and abilities for teaching, speaking, and/or writing (somewhat true for me), and second house cusp in Aquarius, coupled with Uranus at the midheaven, suggests unusual ways of making money. Nothing I've ever had any interest in doing has made enough money, though, which really leaves me stuck. One reason why I can't move forward is every step I can think of to take requires money that I don't have and can't acquire without first moving forward. I can't move forward without money, and I can't get money without moving forward.

Here's what else I require from any job, and I've never been able to find anything that meets these requirements: I completely lack the ability to multitask, I can't do anything that requires concentration, ie paperwork, unless I'm in a completely silent and distraction free environment, and while I absolutely have to have structure to be able to work, I completely lack the ability to create structure for myself. So I need structure created for me, but not rigid structure, no multitasking expected of me, and a distraction free environment if I'm expected to do any office-type work. I can't work under pressure, either. I also need ample physical movement, preferably outdoors.

So what could possibly give me the variety I need, and expectations appropriate for my abilities, and decent to excellent pay... and be suitable with my birth chart?

Edit: If you are replying to this, please read the other posts in this thread first. It has been many months and many posts since I started this thread, and not everything in this first post is relevant anymore. I am no longer seeking quite the same kind of career advice, although I would be glad to have responses that offer a new perspective, build on the direction the thread has taken, and/or follow up with my follow up posts. If you have posted in this thread before and are interested in the follow-ups, welcome back!
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Unread 04-26-2015, 07:13 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Here's what else I require from any job, and I've never been able to find anything that meets these requirements: I completely lack the ability to multitask, I can't do anything that requires concentration, ie paperwork, unless I'm in a completely silent and distraction free environment, and while I absolutely have to have structure to be able to work, I completely lack the ability to create structure for myself. So I need structure created for me, but not rigid structure, no multitasking expected of me, and a distraction free environment if I'm expected to do any office-type work. I can't work under pressure, either. I also need ample physical movement, preferably outdoors.
I'm quoting myself now because I feel this part needs clarification. By structure, I mean I need to have built in structure. I received a pm from someone who seemed to assume, based on this post, that I'm just a lazy good-for-nothing who needs to be supervised every step of the way. That's not true at all, not even close. What I can't do is give myself a list of tasks that need to be done and then follow through on them. However, I can complete tasks very well if I'm told, either verbally or implicitly, that these are the tasks that need doing, and then I have some cues that help me follow through on them--maybe other people doing the same thing, or someone I need to follow up with, or maybe this is just the routine structure for the day, which I would know if I've been on the job for a day or two or three.

If it helps anyone following up, I have ADD. I know some people on this forum believe that's a bogus diagnosis. If this is you, please don't post in this thread, and don't message me about it, either! To do so is to invalidate the experience of those of us who constantly live with such invalidation on a daily basis... and, usually, with constant failure in the workplace as well. Please don't add to the pain.

I would be happy to hear from anyone who understands what I'm saying, or at least tries to understand, and can offer good advice. I added those details just to help winnow down what my birth chart might show.

Last edited by Osamenor; 04-26-2015 at 07:16 AM.
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Unread 04-27-2015, 07:35 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Join the military and ask your recruiter to put you toward something in signals intelligence. Your chart is well disposed for that kind of work and I'm curious if you ever expressed an interest in high technology. You have an appreciation for patterns. I think you'd find enjoyment in it.

Last edited by Zonark; 04-27-2015 at 07:38 AM.
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Unread 04-28-2015, 02:50 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Join the military and ask your recruiter to put you toward something in signals intelligence. Your chart is well disposed for that kind of work and I'm curious if you ever expressed an interest in high technology. You have an appreciation for patterns. I think you'd find enjoyment in it.
Joining the military is not an option. I'm too old (almost 40); I'm morally opposed to most of what they do; I have responsibilities that make me unable to leave home for long periods of time (although I could relocate, just not the way the military would require); and I have a fine motor disability that would make me unable to pass basic training. I also have absolutely no interest in technology.

Last edited by Osamenor; 04-28-2015 at 03:00 AM.
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Unread 04-28-2015, 10:35 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

If you're asking, you don't really have a career-orientated chart. No offence meant by that, a lot of people don't - and a lot of people don't have careers, either.

What did you go to university for specifically, or was it just general arts? Did you enjoy it?

Here's the rub: Your 10 ruler is Venus, retrograde and in detriment. Further, it can't see the MC because from one sign apart it can make no aspect to it. It's probably helped out a bit by Mercury's conjunction, since Merc is in its rulership/exaltation, but likely not enough.

If we look at your exaltation ruler, Saturn, it's angular and sees the MC, but it's in detriment in Cancer, squaring both Jupiter and the MC. Blech. Don't go for business partners, that would be a very difficult situation for you.

Saturn rules your second house (money), and it looks like the worst struggles with that came in your early life, maybe up to age 30. It won't be absolutely fantastic, but you should do okay financially.

Have you thought about service work, like housekeeping (Saturn, and maybe a touch of Saturn-Venus), working at a florist's shop or apparel shop - that'd bring in the Venus-Mercury aspect, and that may help out some for commerce, as well as dealing with other people's money - they're in the eighth house, so maybe it can be put to use that way. Maybe working at a bank?

I don't say those things to insult you at all, but if you need someone to oversee and create structure for you, those lines of work might be okay, and at least somewhat fit in with your chart. Or give you some ideas of where you do and don't want to go with jobs, etc.
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Unread 04-29-2015, 03:32 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
If you're asking, you don't really have a career-orientated chart. No offence meant by that, a lot of people don't - and a lot of people don't have careers, either.

What did you go to university for specifically, or was it just general arts? Did you enjoy it?

Here's the rub: Your 10 ruler is Venus, retrograde and in detriment. Further, it can't see the MC because from one sign apart it can make no aspect to it. It's probably helped out a bit by Mercury's conjunction, since Merc is in its rulership/exaltation, but likely not enough.

If we look at your exaltation ruler, Saturn, it's angular and sees the MC, but it's in detriment in Cancer, squaring both Jupiter and the MC. Blech. Don't go for business partners, that would be a very difficult situation for you.

Saturn rules your second house (money), and it looks like the worst struggles with that came in your early life, maybe up to age 30. It won't be absolutely fantastic, but you should do okay financially.

Have you thought about service work, like housekeeping (Saturn, and maybe a touch of Saturn-Venus), working at a florist's shop or apparel shop - that'd bring in the Venus-Mercury aspect, and that may help out some for commerce, as well as dealing with other people's money - they're in the eighth house, so maybe it can be put to use that way. Maybe working at a bank?

I don't say those things to insult you at all, but if you need someone to oversee and create structure for you, those lines of work might be okay, and at least somewhat fit in with your chart. Or give you some ideas of where you do and don't want to go with jobs, etc.
Hey Oddity just out of curiosity, would you sayI have a career oriented chart? My chart's in my profile pictures, if you need me to post it I will though. Never heard someone make this distinction until now.
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Unread 04-29-2015, 04:11 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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If you're asking, you don't really have a career-orientated chart. No offence meant by that, a lot of people don't - and a lot of people don't have careers, either.
But I can't live with never having a career. It doesn't have to be a doctor, lawyer, teacher, shopkeeper kind of career. It can be a job title no one else has ever had, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be the same thing all my life (actually, it definitely won't be... I'm already too old to make that a goal!) but if it's something brand new, I would need help from others to be able to get started. I don't need a 9 to 5 work week, and as long as I make enough money to keep up with my bills, get out of debt, and save for the future--since I've never managed to do that and I'm starting to run out of time, I'm now worried about being able to save enough--it doesn't necessarily have to be very high paying, just higher paying than anything else I've tried.

What I really need is something I can do day to day that feels like I'm fulfilling my purpose, or at least a purpose. A job that pays the bills but doesn't really come from me and isn't completely suited to me won't do. I've been there, done that, so many times, and I can't live with it anymore.

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What did you go to university for specifically, or was it just general arts? Did you enjoy it?
I did an alternative kind of program, which was basically create your own major. I took some psychology, some education, some religion, some anthropology, and put that all together and called my major Human Development. So, essentially, it's the related field that's the building block for any human services sort of career. I worked with the handicapped for a while, but burned out on that, and taught outdoor education for a while--that was my minor--but experienced a major trauma related to that, which made me feel I couldn't do it anymore.

If there's one group of people I like the most, it's probably the handicapped, but to go back and work with them, I would need some revision in the kind of work... and better pay!

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Saturn rules your second house (money)
And so does Uranus, which is at my MC. I would think there's a connection.
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and it looks like the worst struggles with that came in your early life, maybe up to age 30.
No, actually, the worst struggle is right now, late thirties.

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Have you thought about service work, like housekeeping (Saturn, and maybe a touch of Saturn-Venus), working at a florist's shop or apparel shop - that'd bring in the Venus-Mercury aspect, and that may help out some for commerce, as well as dealing with other people's money - they're in the eighth house, so maybe it can be put to use that way. Maybe working at a bank?
None of that would meet my needs. I was a housekeeper at a bed and breakfast when I was in school, and that was okay, but I could only do it as long as I didn't think of it as what I was going to do in the long run. I wouldn't mind having a situation where I cobble some things together... maybe work at a shop counter a couple times a week, maybe clean hotel rooms every other weekend, while my real focus is on something else... but to be able to sustain that, I need the Something Else. And banking... no way. For one thing, no bank would hire anyone with such an unstable job history as mine. For another, it would take too much of my time and energy for something that I don't really like.

I need to be putting my energy into something that gives me a sense of purpose AND pays the bills, not having to sacrifice one for the other.
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Unread 04-29-2015, 05:36 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Os, I don't know if you get to have the satisfying career. I really don't - and I don't say that to try to discourage you. You've got a difficult chart, but you already know that. If nothing else, I hope I can help you think 'outside the box' and maybe invent that job title that nobody else has ever had.

Ok, let's look at something else. Fortuna is conjunct Jupiter in your chart. This is a good thing, since Jupiter is the benefic of sect (it's going to help you more than Venus will), is angular (4th house cusp), and in decent dignity - it's the out-of-sect triplicity ruler, and trine to both the sun and moon. Which makes all that pretty well-integrated, and is probably why you haven't gone mad dealing with everything you've had to deal with. Jupiter is also the natural ruler of wealth, and Fortuna is a significator of wealth, so not all is lost here.

The problem is that 4-8-12 are not generally fortunate houses, though 4 does have some fortunate qualities and at least is strong. 8 is a notoriously difficult house for planets to manifest through (it rules death, and is considered an 'idle place' for planets within), and 12 has to do with isolation, illness, enemies, and self-undoing. Those are the primary meanings anyway.

Let's try to look at some words. 4th house - home, land, real estate, fathers, ancestry, surveying, building. 8 - other people's money. 12 - hospitals, prisons, and large cattle (animals bigger than goats), exile (refugees).

I'll assume you know the basic meanings for sun, moon, and Jupiter.

They're all tied. You've got some planets in good shape in unfortunate houses. Is there a way to make a career you can tolerate out of any of that stuff?
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Unread 04-29-2015, 05:37 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Hey Oddity just out of curiosity, would you sayI have a career oriented chart? My chart's in my profile pictures, if you need me to post it I will though. Never heard someone make this distinction until now.
I can't find your chart on the board. If you like, just PM me your birth details and I can run it up.
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Unread 04-29-2015, 08:47 PM
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Also very interesting if you please talk about the career oriented chart. How you would discribe it?
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If you're asking, you don't really have a career-orientated chart. No offence meant by that, a lot of people don't - and a lot of people don't have careers, either.

What did you go to university for specifically, or was it just general arts? Did you enjoy it?

Here's the rub: Your 10 ruler is Venus, retrograde and in detriment. Further, it can't see the MC because from one sign apart it can make no aspect to it. It's probably helped out a bit by Mercury's conjunction, since Merc is in its rulership/exaltation, but likely not enough.

If we look at your exaltation ruler, Saturn, it's angular and sees the MC, but it's in detriment in Cancer, squaring both Jupiter and the MC. Blech. Don't go for business partners, that would be a very difficult situation for you.

Saturn rules your second house (money), and it looks like the worst struggles with that came in your early life, maybe up to age 30. It won't be absolutely fantastic, but you should do okay financially.

Have you thought about service work, like housekeeping (Saturn, and maybe a touch of Saturn-Venus), working at a florist's shop or apparel shop - that'd bring in the Venus-Mercury aspect, and that may help out some for commerce, as well as dealing with other people's money - they're in the eighth house, so maybe it can be put to use that way. Maybe working at a bank?

I don't say those things to insult you at all, but if you need someone to oversee and create structure for you, those lines of work might be okay, and at least somewhat fit in with your chart. Or give you some ideas of where you do and don't want to go with jobs, etc.
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Unread 04-30-2015, 04:38 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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The problem is that 4-8-12 are not generally fortunate houses, though 4 does have some fortunate qualities and at least is strong. 8 is a notoriously difficult house for planets to manifest through (it rules death, and is considered an 'idle place' for planets within), and 12 has to do with isolation, illness, enemies, and self-undoing. Those are the primary meanings anyway.

Let's try to look at some words. 4th house - home, land, real estate, fathers, ancestry, surveying, building. 8 - other people's money. 12 - hospitals, prisons, and large cattle (animals bigger than goats), exile (refugees).
No, those are not the primary meanings, just some examples of the primary meanings. The primary meaning of the eighth house is transpersonal energies. Death and other people's money are examples of transpersonal energy. And the primary meaning of twelfth house is transcendence. Isolation, illness, enemies, and self-undoing are examples of situations in which transcendence would be forced on you... but transcendence can also be undertaken voluntary. In this world, it usually isn't.

(Interesting side note: in the middle of posting this, I also surfed the internet, and stumbled on an announcement for a lecture about to happen in my area, in which the lecturer claims the twelfth house is about mastery of happiness. Guess who's going!)

My Jupiter is actually in the third house, although it conjuncts the fourth. So probably some essence of both houses there.

Thinking of the trine is giving me a few ideas, and in fact, they're ideas I've had for a while. The problem is I don't know how to give them form. I've been trying my hand at birth chart reading on here, and maybe I could make a living as an astrologer... but first, there's training. Which takes time and money. And I love deep energy work. I got reiki attunements a couple years ago, but where I live, there's no making a living as a reiki practitioner, that market is way oversaturated. I also love plants, and want to learn herbalism, but that takes years, and it's really more a calling than a way to make a living. I've done one course so far, but stuck on what to do next.
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Unread 04-30-2015, 04:47 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

I don't tend to use terms like 'transpersonal energies', but it really doesn't matter.

Jupiter is sitting on your IC. That rules land. You can plant things on land. They'll grow. Since Fortuna sits with Jupiter, you can reasonably expect some financial return for it.

The herbalism thing sounds GOOD. Can you do astrology as a supplement to that?
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Unread 04-30-2015, 04:53 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

There is a big health market.
Do you think you could turn your herbs into pills?
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Unread 04-30-2015, 07:53 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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I don't tend to use terms like 'transpersonal energies', but it really doesn't matter.

Jupiter is sitting on your IC. That rules land. You can plant things on land. They'll grow. Since Fortuna sits with Jupiter, you can reasonably expect some financial return for it.

The herbalism thing sounds GOOD. Can you do astrology as a supplement to that?
But how am I supposed to get there? Becoming an herbalist or an astrologer requires training, which requires money and time. I don't have the money, and I don't seem to have the ability to acquire money without being in a field like herbalism or astrology. But I can't get there without money, and I can't get money without already being there.

I would love to have a job like gardening or nursery work, but I have no experience and no training in those fields, and all paying jobs in those fields require at least a year of experience or training.

And then there's the problem of no structure. For the things I really want to do, I would have to be self employed. But to sustain self employment, you have to be able to give yourself day to day structure, which I can't do.
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Unread 04-30-2015, 08:08 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Since Fortuna sits with Jupiter, you can reasonably expect some financial return for it.
Oh, and this: your mention of Fortuna made me think! I'd never paid much attention to Part of Fortune before... I've been studying astrology (autodidact, no formal training so far!) for only 6-7 months, coming from a modern astrology perspective and focusing mostly on planetary placements and major aspects, so no time for looking at Fortuna yet. Your comment made me go look up what Part of Fortune means and where it is in my chart.

This blows my mind: I have it right on my IC, conjunct Jupiter AND Chiron. Does that mean healer or teacher, by any chance? I know Jupiter and Chiron both carry those kinds of implications. And being in Aries, it's ruled by Mars, which sits in the fifth house on the cusp of Gemini... is the ruler being in the fifth house perhaps a reason why I have so little tolerance for jobs that I don't truly enjoy? Some people can separate their work from their pleasures easily enough, but I am definitely not one of them!

And what's the significance of the IC in relation to career? I know the MC is where we look for its visible manifestations, but the IC plays some part, doesn't it? I'm still exploring the nature of oppositions... since IC and MC are always opposite, that must play out in the nature of oppositions whether or not there are any planets at those points. But I have planets in conjunction with both, and those planets are t-squared... and I've just realized that they're also in easy opposition, because my sun trines Jupiter and the IC and sextiles Uranus and the MC!
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Unread 04-30-2015, 09:04 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Ok, here's the deal with that: Your MC doesn't work well. We looked at that before. Venus rules it, and Venus is in horrible shape in your chart, and also does not see the MC. I'm just going aspect by sign here, and Virgo to Libra isn't one.

Saturn is the exaltation ruler of your MC, but it's in bad shape, too. Sadly angular, so it's going to cause problems, detrimented, and retrograde, squaring your midheaven.

These are not placements that will help you in any good way - they're not going to bring about happiness or money, or a job you like.

So let's look at what might.

Jupiter is the benefic of sect in your chart (it's more helpful than Venus, because you were born in the daytime and Jupiter is a diurnal planet). It's got some essential dignity (the ability to act like Jupiter), and it's got some accidental dignity, so it does have the opportunity to act pretty strongly, because it's on the IC. And it's got those lovely trines to Sun and moon going. Sun is a natural significator of honours and profession, so that's a nice tie-in.

It's opposed to the MC, but the IC can bring wealth, too. In the old days, currency wasn't that important - you could become quite wealthy by land, and traditionally, that was the major route to wealth. Jupiter/Fortuna/IC signifies that, but in our day, that's going to involve money as well.

As luck would have it, Jupiter is a natural significator of wealth. So is Fortuna.

We know business partners is not a great idea (Saturn square MC). And you need structure. Any chance that there's a nursery, greenhouse, somewhere like that, that could use some help in your area? It would be a start.

In astrology, I would look to pick up planetary days and hours, and the rulerships of various plants and herbs, medical and magical both, as a way in to this. It's not a horribly difficult study.
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Unread 05-01-2015, 11:41 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Your MC is in Libra and with Uranus, I'd say a career based on change/dynamism and human relations.

Your Venus in Virgo in the 9th, so you have scope for higher education, travel and other duties.

It should be a good time for you in career terms, with Jupiter trine transit Jupiter and Jupiter transit your Sun.
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  #18  
Unread 05-02-2015, 06:31 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Ok, here's the deal with that: Your MC doesn't work well.
That's impossible. Everyone's MC works well. Are you saying I don't have any public reputation? That's what MC means: public reputation, how others see us when they don't know us well. Everyone is seen as something by others. Career is just one possible manifestation of that.
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Venus rules it, and Venus is in horrible shape in your chart
There's no such thing as a planet in horrible shape. It might be in detriment or stressed, but that just means that it's in a position where it has to "work" harder to express its energies... or perhaps where the sign it's in has to "work" harder to manifest through it. But the energy is still there and still working. Sometimes it's an especially strong energy. I participated in a thread on here where someone had a Mars in Taurus that was expressing itself in a strong and unique way. I have no idea if there's anything similar going on with my Venus, would be interested if anyone thinks there is!
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Saturn is the exaltation ruler of your MC, but it's in bad shape, too. Sadly angular, so it's going to cause problems, detrimented, and retrograde, squaring your midheaven.
My Saturn isn't retrograde. It is in its fall sign and square to the midheaven, yes, but it's not helpful to just dismiss it as causing problems. Maybe it does, but a helpful interpretation would be figuring out how to work with those energies. I have no idea how to interpret that for myself. And it's irrevocably tied to my midheaven and to Jupiter by the same aspect--so, logically, Jupiter's meanings can't be manifested if we ignore the influence of Saturn!
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We know business partners is not a great idea (Saturn square MC).
That's funny, I usually work very well with others, and I've had some really good experiences in teams where one person's strength balanced another's weakness. None of those were permanent situations, unfortunately, and there's no one in my life right now who I could see as a business partner--but based on my life experiences, I'd say I could do very well with a business partner or small team--if it were exactly the right person or people and exactly the right situation. Saturn square MC can't possibly be a blanket prohibition against business partners, because if it were, I wouldn't have that experience.

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In astrology, I would look to pick up planetary days and hours, and the rulerships of various plants and herbs, medical and magical both, as a way in to this. It's not a horribly difficult study.
That's not the way I study. And I didn't say it would be difficult to study astrology and herbalism. I said it would take time and money. Money especially is the barrier.

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Any chance that there's a nursery, greenhouse, somewhere like that, that could use some help in your area? It would be a start.
I live in a city, not very many of those businesses around, and the ones that are looking for help all require at least a year of experience, which I don't have.

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Jupiter is the benefic of sect in your chart (it's more helpful than Venus, because you were born in the daytime and Jupiter is a diurnal planet). It's got some essential dignity (the ability to act like Jupiter), and it's got some accidental dignity, so it does have the opportunity to act pretty strongly, because it's on the IC. And it's got those lovely trines to Sun and moon going. Sun is a natural significator of honours and profession, so that's a nice tie-in.

It's opposed to the MC, but the IC can bring wealth, too. In the old days, currency wasn't that important - you could become quite wealthy by land, and traditionally, that was the major route to wealth. Jupiter/Fortuna/IC signifies that, but in our day, that's going to involve money as well.

As luck would have it, Jupiter is a natural significator of wealth. So is Fortuna.
Finally, a gem! You've said something that actually works for me! Based on that, I thank you for your post (and I'm not being sarcastic. I really do appreciate you taking your time to help me out).

The one thing I can take away here is the land connection. I'd never realized there was such a strong correlation between land and the IC, and by extension, Jupiter in my chart. Guess what kind of work I used to do: environmental education! But the reason I got into that was love of nature and environmentalist sensibilities, and that it was my favorite part of school when I was a kid.

I've had the sense for some time that I need now to get out there and work with plants. I don't know how. I don't know where. I still don't know how to make money that way. But this conversation has made me more certain that this is what I need to be doing.

I'm still interested in discussing the career matter further, but I really, really want to do it from a change-based, modern astrology, evolutionary perspective. That's the way I work, but I can't do it very well with my own chart.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 06:36 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post
Your MC is in Libra and with Uranus, I'd say a career based on change/dynamism and human relations.
Well, I guess astrology is an example of that, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post
Your Venus in Virgo in the 9th, so you have scope for higher education, travel and other duties.
No, my Venus is in the 8th, unless you're using the whole house system.

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It should be a good time for you in career terms, with Jupiter trine transit Jupiter and Jupiter transit your Sun.
I hope so. I also have Saturn in opposition to my Mars, and that may be one reason why I feel like I'm going to explode and I can't take it anymore!
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Unread 05-02-2015, 04:53 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Os, I'm not a modern evolutionary astrologer. That's fairly obvious.

But I do want to note that I'm judging the chart, not the person. What I mean when I say that is that 'x' whatever it is, is in bad shape, is that that planetary energy is probably not going to act in a way that's to your benefit, not that there's something defective about you.

So please don't think I was judging you in some way because of your chart. I wouldn't do that.

I am glad that the Jupiter/Fortuna/IC thing is helpful to you, though. That's what I try to use astrology for - finding the potentials in a chart that people can use that may help solve some of their problems.

And I wish you all the best.
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  #21  
Unread 05-02-2015, 05:24 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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Os, I'm not a modern evolutionary astrologer. That's fairly obvious.

But I do want to note that I'm judging the chart, not the person. What I mean when I say that is that 'x' whatever it is, is in bad shape, is that that planetary energy is probably not going to act in a way that's to your benefit, not that there's something defective about you.

So please don't think I was judging you in some way because of your chart. I wouldn't do that.
I admit, I react to those negative phrases, like "your Venus is in terrible shape" and "your MC doesn't work well." On reflection, I appreciate your help more than ever, and would give you extra thanks for it if the forum thank buttons allowed! This is an education for me. I don't want to be a traditional astrologer, the evolutionary perspective works much better for me--but to work with astrology, I need to know about the traditional perspective, even if I decide to reject it.

But does planetary energy "in bad shape" necessarily act in a way that doesn't benefit the chart owner? What about planetary energy in "good shape" that goes unchecked? Like a well aspected Mars in Aries or Mercury in Gemini with little or nothing to keep it in check. Does the person with that configuration benefit from being an impulsive hothead or a nonstop talker?

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I am glad that the Jupiter/Fortuna/IC thing is helpful to you, though. That's what I try to use astrology for - finding the potentials in a chart that people can use that may help solve some of their problems.

And I wish you all the best.
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  #22  
Unread 05-02-2015, 05:52 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

Thanks, Os, and I realise that I do owe you an apology. When I first learned astrology, modern astrology was all that was on offer, and I, too, was taught that the chart was a representation of you. I haven't thought that way in many years, but I ought to have realised that for someone who does, saying Venus is in terrible shape is probably going to be read as 'he says I don't know how to do Venus-stuff! I suck at it!'

No, no, no, I don't mean it that way at all, and I am so sorry if you took it that way. In trad astrology, the point of the ascendant is the person. The rest of the chart is the life circumstances and people (your 'transpersonal energy'?) that the person will have to deal with one way and another. And those energies are not always conventionally good. Nor do we always have control over them. I speak from a traditional perspective, I realise that many modern astrologers would disagree.

So when I look at Venus cadent from the angles in your chart, and in Virgo, I don't see it bringing any energy to your career. It isn't connecting to the MC, and since it rules your MC, that's something of a debility. In short - there aren't a bunch of Venus people/Venus types of experiences in your life that can easily help you into a job. There's no fault there. Just Venus not doing its job for you.

As to the Saturn stuff, it just looks nasty to me, again, from a practical perspective. It can play out any number of ways, but when I see a detrimented Saturn in 7, squaring the MC no less, and Saturn's dispositor in 12, I tend to see stories like partners becoming incapacitated through serious illness, confinement, that sort of thing. It won't necessarily play out that particular way (but I've seen it happen that way a lot), and it isn't your fault. It's just something that has a high probability of not working out well for you. Not something you're doing, or wishing on yourself or anyone else.

In trad, you really can't have a planet too dignified. It will bring good energy and experiences to a person's life. And life is hard enough, we need those things.

There is a big philosophical difference between trad and modern. In trad, it's like there are sometimes bad things that you can't avoid but maybe can prepare for, and if you're an astrologer, you're going to try to steer your clients around the rocks to the best of your ability so that hopefully they can pursue things in life that give them some happiness instead of things that feel like hitting your head against a brick wall. In modern I think the emphasis is seeing everything as somewhat-to-entirely within your control, for the best, and as a means for personal growth.

Me, I've seen too much horror in this world. And if I can help someone find a way out of a situation that's causing them a lot of pain, that's what I'm going to do, and it's an honour to be able to do it. A lot of times you can't. But sometimes you can. One of the things about astrology that amazes me.

It's a very different kind of philosophy to modern, I know that, as are my reasons for forsaking the modern stuff for the traditional. But that's a whole other lengthy discussion or three.
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  #23  
Unread 05-02-2015, 06:14 PM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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What about planetary energy in "good shape" that goes unchecked? Like a well aspected Mars in Aries or Mercury in Gemini with little or nothing to keep it in check. Does the person with that configuration benefit from being an impulsive hothead or a nonstop talker?

I want to thank you for these conversations, by the way. I'm writing a book about astrology, and I want to make sure I've got so much of this stuff clear enough in my own head so that I can explain it to other people.

Traditional astrology says (and experience bears out) that you want a well-dignified planet. That Mars in Aries that's not afflicted is the one that's going to show courage and leadership, the good Mars things. It could make a good soldier or a good surgeon, or maybe a star athlete.

It will bring some misfortune, because that's what malefics do. If it's in good shape, though, it's going to be fairly small damage, but overall good. If it's in bad shape it's going to bring a lot of damage, and very little good. I have an utterly corrupted Mars. Mars things don't go well for me. Fortunately, though, in trad anyway, not all planets are active in your life at all times, so it isn't a constant stream of 'bad Mars juju'.

Merc in Gemini in overall good dignity without affliction would give a first-rate mind (never a bad thing), and all else being equal, the houses ruled by Mercury would show areas of life that go well for the native.

It's afflictions that cause problems, not unchecked good. I think one of the reasons for the trad/modern gulf is that even astrologically the techniques for determining the overall shape a planet is in are different, and one of the places where we don't overlap much - in modern I don't see people distinguishing between, say, day and night charts, or using the scheme of dignities much, if at all. Whereas in trad, the aspects to a planet are one of the last things you look at (even though they can be hugely important).

Thanks again for the questions, Os. They are much appreciated.
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  #24  
Unread 05-03-2015, 07:19 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

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In trad astrology, the point of the ascendant is the person. The rest of the chart is the life circumstances and people (your 'transpersonal energy'?) that the person will have to deal with one way and another. And those energies are not always conventionally good. Nor do we always have control over them. I speak from a traditional perspective, I realise that many modern astrologers would disagree.
Wow... I never knew traditional astrology had a whole other way of looking at the birth chart! So, really, one birth chart could be multiple charts at once. A traditional chart that shows circumstances, and a modern chart that shows the person... and also a karmic chart, but that gets a little off topic for this discussion.

Makes me more interested in traditional astrology, knowing that it's really a different chart, not just a different way of interpreting the planets and aspects.

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So when I look at Venus cadent from the angles in your chart, and in Virgo, I don't see it bringing any energy to your career. It isn't connecting to the MC, and since it rules your MC, that's something of a debility. In short - there aren't a bunch of Venus people/Venus types of experiences in your life that can easily help you into a job. There's no fault there. Just Venus not doing its job for you.
In that respect, you're absolutely right. Venus doesn't do that particular job for me. I have little interest in Venusian things, least of all in the kinds of jobs that seem to be classed as Venusian. I'm not very arty or crafty; while I like hearing music, I'm not much interested in making it; and fashion or beauty industry? Bleeech!

I do have a strong need for natural surroundings, though, and I suppose that could be a Venus implication, via its rulership of Taurus. And there's something of a health/healing theme in my interests, along with psychology. I understand Venus to connect with those things as well, and Virgo and the eighth house certainly do.
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Unread 05-10-2015, 04:30 AM
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Re: Seeking New Career

And if anyone has any input, I'm still interested in hearing more perspectives, particularly ones modern enough to take Uranus at my MC into account. I feel that's a big part of the picture.
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