Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > Anything Else... > Chat

Chat For posts that don't have to do with astrological chart interpretation, but they're still important to you. Gossip, show off, hot topic, spiritual thoughts, Sun sign astrological discussions, chit chat: come in and share!


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 12-08-2014, 10:01 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Is Pluto an astrological planet?

by the way
originally the following comments formed part of another thread
but were moved here by a moderator who then titled this thread
"Is Pluto an astrological planet?"


Regarding pluto, latest news is that the jury is still out
that's because of
the definition of the word 'planet'
WHY PLUTO IS NO LONGER A PLANET
http://www.universetoday.com/13573/w...nger-a-planet/


__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

Last edited by JUPITERASC; 08-07-2015 at 03:05 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
Dirius (12-09-2014), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #2  
Unread 12-08-2014, 07:07 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

Thank you, Jupiterasc. I didn't know that astrology also doesn't perceive Pluto as valid as a planet, as astronomy does.
dwarf planet pluto was discovered a mere 84 years ago
on 18 February 1930
and
there is no consensus amongst modern astrolgogers as to its validity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

I understand that the dispositor of Scorpio is now Mars?
For at least two thousand years SCORPIO has traditionally been the territory and home of MARS


when recently discovered
less than a century ago
dwarf planet pluto was assigned co-rulership of SCORPIO
by SOME modern astrologers

but not all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

Does it seem right?
Scorpio is so mysterious and refined in actions
and I associated martian energy with something more crude and psychologically guileless

Would be interested to read your sources regarding this statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

My Venus is peregrine, lacks essential dignity.
I understand. I will read more about it.
Do you think that could be the main factor with my situation there?

It is very nice that you used traditional astrology here,
it's not common to have such a knowledge and I appreciate this.
A debilitated Venus is certainly a factor
however
one planet or aspect alone provides only a part of the story
and
the chart requires being viewed as a whole
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
Dirius (12-09-2014), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #3  
Unread 12-08-2014, 08:52 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

I understand that you deny the role of Pluto in astrology, but can I ask why? As you wrote, some modern astrologers use this dwarf planet too.

Can you specify why Mars is the only answer, apart from that it was used long before the discovery of Pluto? Argumentum ad traditionem is not enough here, I'm afraid. I'm still learning and knowledgeable answers are great source of wisdom for me.
I understand that you deny the role of MARS in SCORPIO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post
Now I would like to say that I know that martian domicile is Aries and Scorpio, Mars is exalted in Capricorn, in detriment in Libra and Taurus and fall in Cancer. I will write what I have read, without sources now. If they will be needed, I will delve into meticulous search later

Mars in exalted in Capricorn, because it gains extra power of constructive, concious action and purpose when coupled with structuring influence of Saturn. That's understandable. Mars is detriment in Libra and Taurus, because these are too venusian signs and they weaken martian power there. Fall in Cancer, because this is too lunar end emotional sign.

But when we strip all the influences of exaltation, detriment etc.? When we consider it's primal form- domicile?
It leaves us with this impulsive, hot, dry, raw, direct, aimless-but always ready to take action energy, which is not so easy to associate with Scorpio.
you are entitled to your opinion
after all
astrologers frequently differ
that is not unusual
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:11 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

I never stated that I deny Mars as ruler of Scorpio,

I was asking for some based on merit answer why is it so.


I didn't express any opinion,
just statements of fact
.

Don't confuse that two.
I was hoping for constructive answer.
Likewise.....
and
I now post the following fact


dwarf planet pluto is entirely absent from the following table of ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES OF THE PLANETS
which has been in use for at least TWO THOUSAND YEARS
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

Last edited by JUPITERASC; 12-08-2014 at 09:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:24 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

Thank you, StillOne! It's so helpful to hear something about yourself from others,
you can never judge your own life in right, detached perspective

Jupiterasc, does your statement mean that we should reject any new discoveries?

I am certain you are well able to objectively
and
with the right detached perspective
deduce the meaning of any of my statements

which are abundantly clear
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:47 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post

Saying that something was used for a long a long time is not enough to validate it's truthfulness, I'm afraid.

It's always better to have wider array of arguments.

Jupiterasc, there is no need to be defensive here. It's only a discussion.

The fact that MARS is the traditional ruler of SCORPIO for the past two thousand years
is clearly insufficient for you

perhaps after another two thousand years have passed
that shall be sufficient time for you
but perhaps not
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #7  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:51 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

I'd say it's safe to say the JupAsc follows the guidelines provided by Traditional Astrology
and thus does not include the last 3 "Planets" typically included by astrologers in the "modern" camp.

There is no 'typical modern camp'
because
there are a myriad differences of opinion amongst modern astrologers

HOWEVER

even modern astrologers acknowledge that SCORPIO is the home territory of MARS
on which dwarf planet pluto merely has 'co-rulership'
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:56 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

The OP natal chart has an Exalted JUPITER in the SIGN of CANCER
opposing
a Domiciled SATURN in the SIGN of CAPRICORN

and

both JUPITER and SATURN

are in SQUARE challenging aspect

with a SUN conjunct MERCURY in the SIGN of ARIES
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:58 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
[FONT=Georgia[SIZE=3[B]There is no 'typical modern camp'
because
there are a myriad differences of opinion amongst modern astrologers

HOWEVER

even modern astrologers acknowledge that SCORPIO is the home territory of MARS
on which dwarf planet pluto merely has 'co-rulership'[/B
[/SIZE][/FONT]
I don't think I said that there is a "typical" modern camp.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 12-08-2014, 10:09 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

I don't think I said that there is a "typical" modern camp.
Fair enough
Arguably, there are no "typical" astrological camps of any kind
because
disagreements are not uncommon "within camps"
whether those "camps" are "modern" or "traditional"
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 12-08-2014, 11:00 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

This is so great Jup! Now you don't have to spend all that time whenever someone brings up Pluto! You can just direct them here!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 12-08-2014, 11:09 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

This is so great Jup!
Now you don't have to spend all that time whenever someone brings up Pluto!
You can just direct them here!

I did not commence this thread though
the posts are re-directed from another thread by a moderator who titled the thread with a question I have no need to ask
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 12-09-2014, 01:33 AM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I did not commence this thread though
the posts are re-directed from another thread by a moderator who titled the thread with a question I have no need to ask
Oh, then all the better... You can start your own thread and direct posters there about Pluto, Trad Astro, etc. What a time saver!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 12-09-2014, 05:15 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,459
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

Oh, then all the better...

You can start your own thread

and direct posters there about Pluto, Trad Astro, etc.

What a time saver!

I'm surprised that while instructing me to 'start my own thread' on a subject of your choice
yet
you have neglected to instruct me as to the title of that thread as well

Certainly you have an interest in traditional interpretations of your own natal chart
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80169

by the way

pluto is a dwarf planet
and only one of many similar objects in the Kuiper Belt
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (03-04-2019)
  #15  
Unread 12-09-2014, 03:55 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I'm surprised that while instructing me to 'start my own thread' on a subject of your choice
yet
you have neglected to instruct me as to the title of that thread as well

My apologies, just trying to make things easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Certainly you have an interest in traditional interpretations of your own natal charthttp://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80169
Indeed, I have interest in many things astrological.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
by the way

pluto is a dwarf planet
and only one of many similar objects in the Kuiper Belt
Maybe that can be the thread title?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 12-09-2014, 04:32 PM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,565
Re: I wonder- is it a highly plutonian chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moor View Post
I understand that you deny the role of Pluto in astrology, but can I ask why? As you wrote, some modern astrologers use this dwarf planet too.

Can you specify why Mars is the only answer, apart from that it was used long before the discovery of Pluto? Argumentum ad traditionem is not enough here, I'm afraid. I'm still learning and knowledgeable answers are great source of wisdom for me.


Now I would like to say that I know that martian domicile is Aries and Scorpio, Mars is exalted in Capricorn, in detriment in Libra and Taurus and fall in Cancer. I will write what I have read, without sources now. If they will be needed, I will delve into meticulous search later

Mars in exalted in Capricorn, because it gains extra power of constructive, concious action and purpose when coupled with structuring influence of Saturn. That's understandable. Mars is detriment in Libra and Taurus, because these are too venusian signs and they weaken martian power there. Fall in Cancer, because this is too lunar end emotional sign.

But when we strip all the influences of exaltation, detriment etc.? When we consider it's primal form- domicile?
It leaves us with this impulsive, hot, dry, raw, direct, aimless-but always ready to take action energy, which is not so easy to associate with Scorpio.
Pluto doesn't reflect light....Pluto doesn't carry a message for us.....

You can't see pluto with the naked eye.

There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun, so....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too.

The problem si that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system, it should be added to our astrological calculations.
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dirius For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (12-09-2014), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #17  
Unread 12-09-2014, 05:34 PM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,565
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

I understand that, and I respect it, but in my case I don't consider neptune/uranus either for anything at all.

Almost everything that this 3 planets "represent", can be explained by the placement of other planets in the charts. Or even using the fixed stars, something that doesn't exist in modern astrology.

We assume that they represent something, because like I said, they belong to what we call "the solar system", our backyard, sort of speak...So we think that since they are so big, they must mean something.

Astrology is born in ancient egypt/greece, by tracking the movements of the 2 luminaries and the 5 errant stars, along with the placement of the fixed stars and constellations:

Sun and moon + mercury/venus/mars/jupiter/saturn + stars

Neptune...uranus...unfortunatly they should mean nothing to us in astrology
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dirius For This Useful Post:
Aria Venue (05-22-2019), JUPITERASC (12-09-2014), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #18  
Unread 12-09-2014, 06:22 PM
Vista's Avatar
Vista Vista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,950
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

JupiterAsc,

I did not create this thread for you however if you prefer I can close it down given you were not interested in the title of this thread to begin with.

Let me know what you wish to do!

Vista
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vista For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (12-09-2014), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #19  
Unread 12-09-2014, 06:58 PM
Kaiousei no Senshi's Avatar
Kaiousei no Senshi Kaiousei no Senshi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Richardson, TX, USA
Posts: 2,609
Send a message via MSN to Kaiousei no Senshi Send a message via Skype™ to Kaiousei no Senshi
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework. Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day. Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group. Today we have redefined what a planet is to serve our own categorical needs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to remember that we, as astrologers, have organizational needs that are different from those of astronomy.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them. Mostly they either 1) don't make sense within their own context or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.
__________________
Coming events cast their shadows before them.

www.medievalastrologyguide.com
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Kaiousei no Senshi For This Useful Post:
Aria Venue (05-22-2019), Cap (12-09-2014), Dirius (12-09-2014), JUPITERASC (12-09-2014), Oddity (01-25-2015), SunConjunctUranus (01-10-2019)
  #20  
Unread 12-09-2014, 07:04 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Pluto doesn't reflect light....Pluto doesn't carry a message for us.....

You can't see pluto with the naked eye.

There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun, so....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too.

The problem si that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system, it should be added to our astrological calculations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I understand that, and I respect it, but in my case I don't consider neptune/uranus either for anything at all.

Almost everything that this 3 planets "represent", can be explained by the placement of other planets in the charts. Or even using the fixed stars, something that doesn't exist in modern astrology.

We assume that they represent something, because like I said, they belong to what we call "the solar system", our backyard, sort of speak...So we think that since they are so big, they must mean something.

Astrology is born in ancient egypt/greece, by tracking the movements of the 2 luminaries and the 5 errant stars, along with the placement of the fixed stars and constellations:

Sun and moon + mercury/venus/mars/jupiter/saturn + stars

Neptune...uranus...unfortunatly they should mean nothing to us in astrology
Out of curiosity, following in this manner, do you also then not utilize the moons nodes or any lots/parts?

Also, in interpretation, do you specifically use interpretation as described by the particular tradition you've studied? Meaning, no modern modification?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 12-09-2014, 07:14 PM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,565
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Out of curiosity, following in this manner, do you also then not utilize the moons nodes or any lots/parts?

Also, in interpretation, do you specifically use interpretation as described by the particular tradition you've studied? Meaning, no modern modification?
Why wouldn't I use the hellenistic lots?, when most of the hermetic tradition employs them to a deep extent! The same with the nodes.

To answer your questions, yes I use them, but because both the parts and nodes have a logical meaning behind their use: the lots are points of reference regarding the individual aspects of life given by the self (ascendant) and the position of the planets, while the nodes are the favour granted by Selene (the moon), whose importance along with that of the Sun was much greater in the ancient days.

Like KnS said in his beautiful well-written post, the traits given to the outer planets are sort of cherry picked, and stolen from the other planets. They have no logical use.
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dirius For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (12-09-2014), Oddity (05-09-2016), SunConjunctUranus (03-04-2019)
  #22  
Unread 12-09-2014, 08:08 PM
Vista's Avatar
Vista Vista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,950
This forum is for all styles of astrology including modern. Bullying and ganging up on members who are modern astrologers will not be allowed. If you cannot coexist without trying to push your opinion modern astrology is irrelevant, stick with posting inside your own subgroups.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Vista For This Useful Post:
Horus (06-27-2015), iojove (05-11-2017), StillOne (12-30-2014)
  #23  
Unread 12-09-2014, 08:13 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.
Interesting, so in some cases they are used.

Last edited by StillOne; 12-09-2014 at 08:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 12-09-2014, 08:14 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,589
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Why wouldn't I use the hellenistic lots?, when most of the hermetic tradition employs them to a deep extent! The same with the nodes.
Oh, I just figured since they didn't reflect light... which I'm sure that Pluto does but we just can't see it from here.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 12-09-2014, 08:29 PM
Kaiousei no Senshi's Avatar
Kaiousei no Senshi Kaiousei no Senshi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Richardson, TX, USA
Posts: 2,609
Send a message via MSN to Kaiousei no Senshi Send a message via Skype™ to Kaiousei no Senshi
Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista
This forum is for all styles of astrology including modern. Bullying and ganging up on members who are modern astrologers will not be allowed. If you cannot coexist without trying to push your opinion modern astrology is irrelevant, stick with posting inside your own subgroups.
This is a pretty heavy-handed moderator response. I don't think anyone is saying modern astrology is irrelevant (certainly no one is using that word), only explaining why the differences are there and answering Moor's questions about these philosophical splits.

Edit: But I do suppose we could continue this in another subgroup if you think it fits better there or think doing so would take away some of the perceived confrontational tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne
Interesting, so in some cases they are used.
Yes, but it's important to distinguish the ways they are utilized. I see you're trying to equate them with the Lots. That's a good analogy, but probably not in the way you are thinking.

Using this light paradigm and its implicit dichotomy of active and passive agents, the Lots do not effect things, they are effected by things. What I mean here is that Lots do not cast aspects and they do not, themselves create signification. The health of a Lot is not determined by its placement (other than maybe its house), but by its relationship with the other planets and the placement of its dispositor. Lots are very, very similar to house cusps in this regard.

You could make a similar argument with the outer planets. They do not create or interact inherently or naturally, but only do so when acted upon by other active forces.
__________________
Coming events cast their shadows before them.

www.medievalastrologyguide.com

Last edited by Kaiousei no Senshi; 12-09-2014 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kaiousei no Senshi For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (12-09-2014)
Reply

Tags
asstrological, astrological, hello moto, muto, planet, pluto

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.