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  #51  
Unread 08-06-2013, 04:24 AM
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Deleted the attacks, to All

All,

While there was some astrology in the attacks and responses to the attacks, the attacking posts violated the Forum rules on civility and quoting those attacks simply continued the problem. And there is a rule against responding to or quoting attacks (contact a Moderator instead). There was some good astrology in those posts. Repost them without the attacks and trolling comments and they can stay up.

Deleting,

Tim

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  #52  
Unread 08-06-2013, 05:51 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post


Chico Marx Venus Trine Ascendant
Harpo Marx Venus Square Ascendant
Groucho Marx Venus conjunct Ascendant
Funny. I laughed with the Mars joke, too. That was witty. The Marx brothers as an exception is interesting, although it is based on dirty data. I had someone give me a birth time that was off by two hours and some minutes once. We asked his mother what the time of his birth was and all she could think of was the morning, that it must have been around 8 a.m. or 8:30 a.m. She settled on 8:30. This statement would qualify as an "A" rating. The more she said this, the more certain she was of the time. After contacting records, we learned that it was indeed in the morning, at 6:17 a.m.

But they could very well be correct in the time chosen for these three. But then again, who knows . . . .
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  #53  
Unread 08-06-2013, 06:09 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

What I am going to do now is abandon this thread. There are several reasons why. First, it has a very high potential for being derailed at the moment. Second, I can see that it upsets people, for whatever reason. The last thing I wanted to be was a peddler of low self-esteem. Third, there are a significant amount of exceptions that need to be analyzed. For example, Marilyn Monroe's chart bothers me as well as Florence, the Olympian. I have noticed that a good portion of the exceptions repeat certain conditions, so I will no longer apply a superficial analysis but look more in depth at each of these, as well as acquiring as many exceptions as possible. (As an aside, I think I know why the exceptions are exceptions, which might make them exceptions no longer.) The fourth reason is that I have spent more time than I should have on this thread, and other responsibilities have been neglected.

If anything, at least this thread has stimulated some good discussion on the subject, either with the motive to endorse it or to oppose it. Each position has contributed valued discussion and debate.

To those of you who have found yourself distressed by this thread, I apologize. It may have been the effect but it was certainly not the intent.
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  #54  
Unread 08-09-2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
Okay. I am working on something at the moment, so I'll post the charts later. But I will discuss some of the charts.

Jennifer Lopez's birth time is unknown, so I won't even speculate.

Marylyn Monroe, however, has a AA rating, but her birth time is exactly 9:30. Granted that she could have been born exactly at 9:30, I nonetheless find it suspect and that the time was probably rounded off or an approximation. Sometimes nurse and doctors make a guess after the birth of the child. But if you look at her chart, her Venus is making a trine to the ascendant by sign. And a difference of approximately 25 minutes would allow for a nice square to her ascendant. And, interestingly, it is one of those situations where it is a square coming from Aries to Leo, making it a trine/square

Next, Zeta-Jones' birth time is from memory, but even then, her Venus forms a trine with the ascendant. It has a wide orb, but then again, her time is from memory and might not be accurate.

Liv Tyler's birth time is from memory. But it is within minutes of forming a trine to her chart ruler, which is the Moon. That is minutes.

I'll look at the others later, and I'll try to post these charts so people can see.

Regardless, I appreciate the exceptions that you are finding. This is still very much a theory, so reworking the theory is going to be necessary. And you are definitely helping in that area!

Just out of curiosity, is your birth time from your birth certificate?

I guess. But they can't all be wrong, right ? The ones from memory- I'm guessing if they're wrong, they can't be far off. A lot of parents remember vividly their babies birth details

And yes it is. Birth certificate. Doctors notes. And I still have my little hospital bracelet with my name/weight/time and date of birth written on it

Sorry for the late reply, by the way.
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Unread 08-09-2013, 07:14 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others? I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.
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  #56  
Unread 08-09-2013, 07:23 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others? I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.
How is Venus unaspected in your chart if it is conjunct Sun/Mercury and trine Jupiter? I'd say your Venus was quite strong being in the 5th (link to the arts and performing), especially as it's in its own sign.
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  #57  
Unread 08-09-2013, 10:00 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Cascada View Post
I guess. But they can't all be wrong, right ? The ones from memory- I'm guessing if they're wrong, they can't be far off. A lot of parents remember vividly their babies birth details

And yes it is. Birth certificate. Doctors notes. And I still have my little hospital bracelet with my name/weight/time and date of birth written on it

Sorry for the late reply, by the way.
You're right. I do not think that they are all wrong. I think some are wrong but not all. It should be noted that Monroe's ascendant is in the bounds of Venus, so there is that affinity. There are also other factors that render it as being a very strong influence in her chart, the combination of which is evident from her photographs.

I have refined my theory to include some additional factors, which I will withhold at the moment simply because of the disturbing effect this thread as had on some. But these additional factors very well might assist making this theory highly accurate.

As of now, there is only one chart that has me confused. And regarding exceptions, I never said there are no exceptions. That is a misquote. Whether it was intentional or accidental, I will not bother to speculate. But as a greater collection of charts are analyzed, the "exceptions" will be entirely explainable. For example, the chart of Natureschild is explainable, despite its not having the classic significations I mentioned in the beginning of this thread.

And regarding your chart, it would be an excellent chart to practice other astrological concepts! Maybe I can practice predicting your future for you at some point? I only have a handful of charts of people I know who have an accurate birth time, and I have only one in which the birth was witnessed.
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  #58  
Unread 08-09-2013, 10:23 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Natureschild View Post
What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others?
I did not even notice that! Nice observation. That is certainly something to look into. I have no answer for it at the moment.

Quote:
I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.
Your Venus does not trine your Jupiter. Regarding your career as an actress, you have a very good situation here. I think you have chosen the right field for yourself, but then again, I suppose it was inevitable given your chart features. For being an actress, you are actually quite emotionally stable, though I would say you have some difficulty expressing your emotions and have gone through periods of depression and/or emotional volatility, especially in regard to relationships. (As an aside, I think you would be the person I would go to in any crisis type situation because of your ability to keep your cool and be focused. You have some remarkable control over your emotions, despite losing the plot a bit at times, which I think is a supreme asset to your acting.) You are someone who really looks for a deep relationship with another person and wants to be cared for as much as you care for the other person. You are a woman who actually really needs to feel needed. Regarding your relationships, I think you can be picky in this regard because you are very romantic. And it will also lead to disappointment. (I hope this describes you.) You look as if you have had some type of long distance relationship? Did someone move away and break your heart?

Speaking of Venus as well, I think you are going to have some issues with your career because of an inability to be in the right place. I don't know if you are in Hollywood but either your career will suffer from not going to where you need to go or your relationship will suffer because you had to leave it behind. I think it is going to be one or the other for you.

I aslo think you will be one of the starving artists types but will marry someone who is going to be of a great financial assistance to you. Your acting will be supported.
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  #59  
Unread 08-12-2013, 03:08 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
How To Recognize Physical Beauty


Examples

Although the chart does not acknowledge the aspect, you can see that Anderson's Venus is making a tight sextile to her ascendant, which is within 1. The sextile is, in my opinion, the most powerful aspect for delivering physical beauty to the native.

-----------------------------------------------------

Aniston's time is from memory, but I believe she was born earlier than the time given. A difference of minutes would put Venus in opposition to her ascendant. She also has Venus as the ruler of her chart, which heightens the probability of being physically beautiful.
Jennifer Aniston and Pamela Anderson has never been considered beautiful in classic sense, Why are they even among your examplars ?

Aniston's chart suits her.Saturn-ASC opposition show up itself on her famous chin.

Some more people to add to the list:

Catherine Deneuve:One of the most symetrically beautiful faces

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Deneuve,_Catherine


She has Venus trine AsC

Monica Bellucci:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bellucci,_Monica

Asc ruler opposed by Venus.

Ornella Muti:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Muti,_Ornella

First house Libra Moon trine Venus
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  #60  
Unread 08-12-2013, 05:15 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Thank you Cascada for your response, I wasn't even thinking of the 5th house placement. I should have said compared to my other aspects, Venus seems rather unaspected, compared to saturn, midheaven, and a few others where there are 5+ aspects for each planet. Thank you for refreshing this though, I am feeling a lot better about my decision to Act.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:28 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
I did not even notice that! Nice observation. That is certainly something to look into. I have no answer for it at the moment.



Your Venus does not trine your Jupiter. Regarding your career as an actress, you have a very good situation here. I think you have chosen the right field for yourself, but then again, I suppose it was inevitable given your chart features. For being an actress, you are actually quite emotionally stable, though I would say you have some difficulty expressing your emotions and have gone through periods of depression and/or emotional volatility, especially in regard to relationships. (As an aside, I think you would be the person I would go to in any crisis type situation because of your ability to keep your cool and be focused. You have some remarkable control over your emotions, despite losing the plot a bit at times, which I think is a supreme asset to your acting.) You are someone who really looks for a deep relationship with another person and wants to be cared for as much as you care for the other person. You are a woman who actually really needs to feel needed. Regarding your relationships, I think you can be picky in this regard because you are very romantic. And it will also lead to disappointment. (I hope this describes you.) You look as if you have had some type of long distance relationship? Did someone move away and break your heart?

Speaking of Venus as well, I think you are going to have some issues with your career because of an inability to be in the right place. I don't know if you are in Hollywood but either your career will suffer from not going to where you need to go or your relationship will suffer because you had to leave it behind. I think it is going to be one or the other for you.

I aslo think you will be one of the starving artists types but will marry someone who is going to be of a great financial assistance to you. Your acting will be supported.
Thank you Cyno for the response!!!! What you wrote is very accurate and descriptive, thank you. I actually didn't really choose to act on my own, but when I was 17 and experienced my spiritual awakening- it was then that the love and passion was "placed" into my heart and I was awakened and taught to be sympathetic.. every time I work and make effort in that field, things really go far. Seems to be the universe telling me that's what I'm meant to do. I will pursue it.

The other things you mentioned are very accurate too, I am usually able to control my emotions as long as I know people aren't toiling with my head/thoughts.. it agitates me greatly when others try to see into my mind, I am an open book and attract a lot of dark energy, which makes me feel more negative. I have indeed been involved in a lot of long distance relationships, I have had my heart broken but moreso scared of it being broken and I often find myself distancing myself from others out of prevention and fear. I am realizing that I am in the wrong place, and have felt that way for the past 6 years. I have left many times but keep getting sucked back. I feel this year or the next may be the last chance for me to get my **** together and move to a place where I can have success. I have also struggled with balancing a relationship and career, it is very difficult. My midheaven/lilith is Libra and my south node is virgo in the 8th house. My stellium of sat/ura/nep in the 1st house is Square my midheaven- simply put, it's NOT easy for me to have a balanced, well-rounded life.. it is something I resist deeply but know it's the only path to success for me. I am struggling, but am managing to get ahead. Slowly but surely.

I have also considered that I am the stereotypical "starving artist". Because of this, I went to bartending school for a quick fix, and am working on the weekends making pretty good money. I am going back to school this semester to continue my accounting degree (im horrible with money- learning my weakness) and next year plan to transfer so that I can be self-sufficient and actually support my acting career. I have big ideas, want to write a lot. I keep having the notion to reach out and that I could be discovered, not sure what to think of this. Does anything in the stars support that?! Thank you again
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  #62  
Unread 08-12-2013, 06:43 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Cypocryphy
or whoever
Can you take a look at my chart please and tell me what you see? According to your theory I am not very attractive at all.



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Unread 08-12-2013, 11:53 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Cypocryphy
or whoever
Can you take a look at my chart please and tell me what you see? According to your theory I am not very attractive at all.
Well, as you can see below, you have chosen to cast your chart with the actual star positions of the zodiac. If we look at the tropical zodiac, however, you will see that your ascendant is in Scorpio. Mars, as the ruler of your chart, is in Taurus and approximately 9 away from Venus, which is in Aries. This is too wide an orb to make it a valid conjunction, but because both Venus and Mars mutual receive each other, and because they are in the same declination, they operate as if they were conjunct in latitude.

This explains why you have a strong physical affinity to the symmetrical forces of Venus. In other words, you are very pretty.

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  #64  
Unread 08-13-2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Oh, didn't notice that. Yeah I'd repost your chart in tropical. The sidereal chart is moreso for the vedic branch of astrology.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 04:01 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Actually your chart does fit his description.

Your Libra ascendant (one of the more attractive ascendants) quincunxes your Pisces venus (exalted) in the 5th house of sex and pleasure, 5 degree orb.

The Quincunx isn't as famous an aspect as a trine or square, but it's almost as powerful and when it's between 2 venus influenced signs (Libra, Pisces) and also between the appearance house (1st) and sex house (5th) it's a good bit more powerful than the average trine or square in reguards to appearance.

And looking at your pic, yes you are quite attractive.



Thank you for your input. I never looked at the 5th house as the house of Sex. I thought it was the house of children and Leo. How interesting! I read somewhere that it means one may have beautiful daughters when Venus is placed in the 5th house. Thank you for your input!
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Unread 08-13-2013, 04:14 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post
Well, as you can see below, you have chosen to cast your chart with the actual star positions of the zodiac. If we look at the tropical zodiac, however, you will see that your ascendant is in Scorpio. Mars, as the ruler of your chart, is in Taurus and approximately 9 away from Venus, which is in Aries. This is too wide an orb to make it a valid conjunction, but because both Venus and Mars mutual receive each other, and because they are in the same declination, they operate as if they were conjunct in latitude.

This explains why you have a strong physical affinity to the symmetrical forces of Venus. In other words, you are very pretty.


Thank you for your input! I originally started off with tropical astrology but I found that the Scorpio ascendant did not match with my personality description much. I kept researching and stumbled upon Vedic astrology and that was when I found out I was a Libra ascendant in Vedic astrology! I read up on Libra ascendant and found the descriptions matched my personality much better! Not even that, but I even have the face dimples Libra ascendant tend to have (one on my left cheek, and one on my chin).

Have you heard of the asteroid Aphrodite? It is said to be associate with beauty too.
Here is a link:
http://revelationsofathenegoddess.wo...oid-aphrodite/



I have that asteroid almost conjunct to my Leo midheaven. I have also been curious that the Midheaven can influence your appearance too. Have you got any information or insight on that?
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Unread 08-13-2013, 04:59 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Thank you for your input! I originally started off with tropical astrology but I found that the Scorpio ascendant did not match with my personality description much. I kept researching and stumbled upon Vedic astrology and that was when I found out I was a Libra ascendant in Vedic astrology! I read up on Libra ascendant and found the descriptions matched my personality much better! Not even that, but I even have the face dimples Libra ascendant tend to have (one on my left cheek, and one on my chin).

Have you heard of the asteroid Aphrodite? It is said to be associate with beauty too.
Here is a link:
http://revelationsofathenegoddess.wo...oid-aphrodite/



I have that asteroid almost conjunct to my Leo midheaven. I have also been curious that the Midheaven can influence your appearance too. Have you got any information or insight on that?
What kind of career are you involved in? Is it a Venusian related career e.g. beauty, fashion, modelling or something like stage acting/drama etc. You have a lot of aspects to your Leo based Midheaven and as you say Aphrodite is almost conjunct your MC.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 06:41 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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What kind of career are you involved in? Is it a Venusian related career e.g. beauty, fashion, modelling or something like stage acting/drama etc. You have a lot of aspects to your Leo based Midheaven and as you say Aphrodite is almost conjunct your MC.
What will happen if our aphrodite,Venus and North Node conjunct MC?Especially Venus and Aphrodite?
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Unread 08-13-2013, 07:17 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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What will happen if our aphrodite,Venus and North Node conjunct MC?Especially Venus and Aphrodite?
Not too sure, but logic would tell me that the career that may interest the subject would be something along the lines of Venusian qualities. The NN's conjunction would be a karmic lesson to be learnt in relation to something to do with the person's ambitions/aspirations and career prospects.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 07:59 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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What kind of career are you involved in? Is it a Venusian related career e.g. beauty, fashion, modelling or something like stage acting/drama etc. You have a lot of aspects to your Leo based Midheaven and as you say Aphrodite is almost conjunct your MC.

Lol. I am in the medical field. I am a Registered Nurse on a Labor and Delivery floor. I am not totally happy in this field. I want to open my own business and be my own boss, but I am not sure for what yet! As for a Venusian related career, when I was younger I wanted to get into modeling (had the opportunity twice); but my parents were strict traditional Asian parents who told me to be A) Doctor B) Engineer C) Registered Nurse school so that I could find a practical job.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 08:09 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Lol. I am in the medical field. I am a Registered Nurse on a Labor and Delivery floor. I am not totally happy in this field. I want to open my own business and be my own boss, but I am not sure for what yet! As for a Venusian related career, when I was younger I wanted to get into modeling (had the opportunity twice); but my parents were strict traditional Asian parents who told me to be A) Doctor B) Engineer C) Registered Nurse school so that I could find a practical job.
Yeah, I here you about strict Asian parents. Mine were like that too until very recently they've laid off my case now. Since you have Leo connected to the Midheaven I can see why you want to be your own boss. Leo likes to be in an authoritative position and be able to "call the shots" so as to speak. What kind of business do you intend to start?
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Unread 08-13-2013, 08:24 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by The_Saturnian View Post
Yeah, I here you about strict Asian parents. Mine were like that too until very recently they've laid off my case now. Since you have Leo connected to the Midheaven I can see why you want to be your own boss. Leo likes to be in an authoritative position and be able to "call the shots" so as to speak. What kind of business do you intend to start?


Lol, you are right! I want to start a home health care business or an addiction rehabilitation center. I want to do something that will help a large population. I just feel like it is part of my destiny to help others, but I am still testing out the water at this point. What is your ethnic background? If you don't mind me asking! I am Vietnamese.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 11:16 AM
The_Saturnian The_Saturnian is offline
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by cocoloco View Post
Lol, you are right! I want to start a home health care business or an addiction rehabilitation center. I want to do something that will help a large population. I just feel like it is part of my destiny to help others, but I am still testing out the water at this point. What is your ethnic background? If you don't mind me asking! I am Vietnamese.
That too makes sense. The MC falls at 0 degrees Leo, just on the border of Cancer & Leo. Cancer career wise is usually associated with the medical field, care etc. and with the added Leonine touch, could suggest an ownership/boss (Leo) of some sort of medical institution or centre (Cancer). You should definitely go for it! It will certainly be a great karmic deed to help the masses in pain. You sound very spiritual too. My ethic background is Indian. Pleased to meet you Miss Vietnam .

Last edited by The_Saturnian; 08-13-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 01:38 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

I too have noticed the connection between Venus placed prominently in the chart and beauty. I own the charts of three beautiful women I know, in all of them Venus is placed in the First House.

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Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post

Michelle Pfeiffer


Michelle's Venus is strong in the chart despite an aspect from Saturn, and it squares her ascendant. Saturn is not in a condition to harm Venus so as to weaken its influence on Pfeiffer.
In my opinion a Saturn-Venus contact can grant beauty but it will be the "cold and reserved, medieval gothic" type, a description I think fits Pfeiffer.

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Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service View Post
Venus and Pluto for the beautiful magical appeal, the mystery of the femme fatale beauty DNA.
Indeed. I have a female acquaintance with a Venus-Pluto conjunction in her First House. She attracts men like a powerful magnet who do for her everything she is asking for. She simply dominates them with her "magical appeal".

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Originally Posted by The_Saturnian View Post
Ah I see. I had a suspicion that Mars may play a role because quite often many famous celebrities have their own personal trainers and thus help them acquire and maintain that Herculean look.
In my experience Mars in the First House gives a well-shaped body - usually as a result of rigorous training -, but not facial beauty. I know a lady who has Saturn conjunct Mars in her First House, without any Venusian involvement. In fact, her Venus is in Capricorn and does not receive any aspects. She is average in the terms of facial beauty, but has an extremely well-toned figure that makes her really attractive.
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Last edited by Carolus Optimus; 08-13-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 02:44 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Carolus Optimus View Post
In my opinion a Saturn-Venus contact can grant beauty but it will be the "cold and reserved, medieval gothic" type, a description I think fits Pfeiffer.....
Yet not without considerable assistance from an expert cosmetic surgeon's scalpel
- combined with many hours of attention to hair as well as to layers of make-up preparation -
plus a carefully contrived camera angle shot, posed during a lengthy photo shoot....
as evidenced by this 'before and after' picture of Pfeiffer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolus Optimus View Post
In my experience Mars in the First House gives a well-shaped body - usually as a result of rigorous training -, but not facial beauty. I know a lady who has Saturn conjunct Mars in her First House, without any Venusian involvement. In fact, her Venus is in Capricorn and does not receive any aspects. She is average in the terms of facial beauty, but has an extremely well-toned figure that makes her really attractive.
Usually? On the contrary
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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I also suspect Mars may play a role - BUT - that's because the first example of Physical Beauty posted is of Pamela Anderson - a Hollywood actress/star famous for the multiple cosmetic surgeries she has endured in order to attain the Hollywood ideal of Physical Beauty

Hollywood stars are notorious in fact for 'going under the knife' in order to further their careers by attaining the current fashionable ideal of Physical Beauty
- JMO Physical Beauty is judged by society, and since societies differ then ideal Physical Beauty is not 'set in stone' but instead is a variable ALMOST entirely dependent on the perception of cultural norms and values. I say 'almost' because there are many within any society who - as individuals - frequently differ from the status quo view of 'normal' and 'valuable' indicators of Physical Beauty.

Not everyone agrees that Physical Beauty consists entirely of strategically applied makeup to cover cosmetic surgery scars all combined with carefully chosen camera angles
Clearly, when discussing Hollywood stars - then to be realistic, Mars has other forms of 'sculpting the physical form' that are far removed from simply 'exercise'.

Another 'before and after' example
is Jessica Simpson's Nose Job :
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