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  #26  
Unread 08-02-2013, 06:37 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillcoil
This thread is very ethnocentric. There are different standards of beauty throughout the world, the judgements in this thread really isn't valid outside of Western American beauty standards.

In terms of what this media promotes as attractive, what about Brad Pitt? He's often mentioned when people bring up male physical attractiveness and I don't see any of the aspects mentioned in his chart.

Aside from a few people scrambling to check their charts for an ego boost, what else can come from this thread?
Skillcoil brought up some interesting points, which should be addressed.

Quote:
  • This thread is very ethnocentric. There are different standards of beauty throughout the world, the judgements in this thread really isn't valid outside of Western American beauty standards.
It is true that this thread is ethnocentric. But you should ask yourself why it is ethnocentric. There is a simple reason. Most of the information that I gather is based on (1) identifiable celebrities known for their physical beauty, (2) whether they are in astro.com's data base, and (3) whether they have an AA Rodden rating (or close to it at times), the latter of which is extremely important since we are using the ascendant as a focal point.

The ethnocentric and racial issue has resulted because of an extreme difficulty in finding beautiful celebrities who have a double A Rodden rating. I have looked for Beyonce, Vanessa Williams, Jada Smith, Iman, Naomi Campbell, Hard Kaur, Shruti Hassan, Konnie Huq, Yu Wexia, Michelle Yeoh, etc. They are either not in the data base or have such a poor Rodden rating as to be completely unreliable.

Are there different standards throughout the world? Yes, in a sense, but it is a misleading statement. Aside from various isolated cultures who engage in bizarre behavior, such as making a woman eat herself fat or having rings placed in increments around the neck of young girls until each one looks like a giraffe, beauty is the same. Look at India, China, Japan. The differences are mild. As I said in another post, and I will say it again: Physical beauty is geometry of the body, based on precise ratios with mild deviation. Noticing that someone is beautiful and another is ugly is as subjective as noticing that one shape is a circle and the other is a square.

Quote:
  • In terms of what this media promotes as attractive, what about Brad Pitt? He's often mentioned when people bring up male physical attractiveness and I don't see any of the aspects mentioned in his chart.
If there is a common celebrity that should be mentioned, take it for granted that he or she is not here because none knows when he or she was born. And if that is not the case, then time is untrustworthy. Pitt's birth time is unknown.

Quote:
  • Aside from a few people scrambling to check their charts for an ego boost, what else can come from this thread?
This is a good question. None will get an ego boost looking at a chart if no similar reflection is gleaned from a mirror. The underlying point of this thread is to (1) demonstrate one of the effects of Venus and, most importantly, (2) to show that astrology works, that it's not just loose thought association based on a random array of symbols, retroactively applied and manipulated to make anything out of everything.

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  #27  
Unread 08-02-2013, 06:43 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by The_Saturnian View Post
I just wondered what you are doing for a profession/studying to become, as you have Venus conjunct your MC in the 10th. Plus its exalted. Are you in the hair/beauty industry or perhaps aspiring to become an actress?
i am civil engineer but i wanna be an actress you re true...North Node,Venus,part of fortuna and Aphrodite conjunct with my MC..My astrologer says me that i will be an actress in 2015-2016.I do not know but now i am gonna start drama and cinema courses My heart tends to be famous actress that's why being beautiful is quite important for me
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  #28  
Unread 08-02-2013, 06:57 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

I 've read an article about midpoints(heliocentric nodes).Venus and ASC midpoints is about to physical beauty too...And We should check Aphrodite,Helena(Helen),Bella,Galatea,Eros,Psyche, Astarte,Innanen, Ishtar,Hathor,Esther,Pan and Nymphe....

Another exceptions are Natalie Portman,Gisele Bundchen,Brooke Shields and Michelle Pfeiffer....

This is about Venus-Saturn hard aspects and celebrities....
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  #29  
Unread 08-02-2013, 06:59 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Other Examples

As an explanation as to how I find these charts, I think of someone or wonder about someone who has been deemed physically beautiful. I then enter the name in astro.com and see if I get a hit. I sat here and thought of four new names, two men and two women. It is surprising how often random picks such as these (which is what I have been doing for the others) fall in line with the theory.

Katie Holmes



Katie's Venus is strong by house and squares her ascendant.

Rachel Hunter



The chart does not have an AA rating, but she is cusping it, and I believe a slight five minutes will make her chart ruler Mercury, which Venus forms a sextile to. She said there could have been a change of five minutes or more.

Paul Newman



Known as one of the most beautiful men in Hollywood, Newman's Venus forms a conjunction to the ascendant and forms a sextile to his chart ruler, which is Saturn.

Marlon Brando



Brando, the legend, has Venus in opposition to his ascendant.
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  #30  
Unread 08-02-2013, 07:03 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Gail View Post
I 've read an article about midpoints(heliocentric nodes).Venus and ASC midpoints is about to physical beauty too...And We should check Aphrodite,Helena(Helen),Bella,Galatea,Eros,Psyche, Astarte,Innanen, Ishtar,Hathor,Esther,Pan and Nymphe....

Another exceptions are Natalie Portman,Gisele Bundchen,Brooke Shields and Michelle Pfeiffer....

This is about Venus-Saturn hard aspects and celebrities....
Thank you for the tip, Gail! I have to check these out now.
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  #31  
Unread 08-02-2013, 07:34 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

erm... a lot of these 'beautiful' people have had plastic surgery...
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  #32  
Unread 08-02-2013, 09:04 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

I agree with Zarathu in that this view of beauty seems to be a little less than objective. For example, Sean Connery being an exception to the rule in that , he doesn't have Venus aspecting the ascendant. As another poster pointed out, it depends on what you find attractive (as in the women/money study). He has Saturn on the ascendant strong in Capricorn, seems very apt for a strong, masculine man to play the sophisticated character of James Bond, very Saturn in Capricorn, very dignified, very respectable, very authoritative, which some women, and men, may indeed find attractive. I certainly do, with Saturn in my 7th house, I look up to men with status, power and respect. Plus Johnny Depp, but he is indeed different....
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  #33  
Unread 08-02-2013, 10:14 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

i think Venus square,conjunct or opposite Saturn gives marked bone stracture. Example; Angelina Jolie,Natalie Portman, Gisele Bόndchen, Johnny Depp...
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  #34  
Unread 08-02-2013, 04:04 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service View Post
Pamela Anderson: Venus/Saturn=Pluto, As/MC=Venus/Pluto

Jennifer Aniston: Asc. (Venus) – Saturn, Venus//Saturn, Venus quindecile Pluto, Venus quindecile Ascendant.

Gwyneth Paltrow: Venus-Saturn, Venus/Saturn=Ascendant, As/MC=Venus/Pluto

Angelina Jolie: Venus//Saturn, Venus-Ascendant, Venus/Saturn=Venus/Jupiter, Venus/Pluto=Saturn

Elizabeth Taylor: Venus-Pluto, Venus/Saturn=Ascendant, Saturn/Pluto=Ascendant

Penelope Cruz: Saturn-Pluto, Venus/Saturn=Venus/Pluto, Venus/Pluto=Venus/Mars

Tyra Banks: Venus in Capricorn, Pluto in Libra, Venus#Saturn, Venus#Ascendant, Saturn-Pluto, Venus/Pluto=Ascendant, Saturn/Pluto=MC

Nicole Kidman: Venus-Saturn, Venus//Pluto, Saturn/Pluto=Venus

Jessica Alba: Saturn Libra, Pluto Libra, Venus/Saturn=Pluto, Saturn/Pluto=Asc

Gail: Venus-Saturn, Venus-Pluto, Venus//Pluto, Venus/Saturn=Venus, Venus/Saturn=Pluto, Asc/MC=Venus/Saturn, Asc/MC=Saturn, Asc/MC=Pluto, Asc/MC=Venus, Venus/Pluto=Saturn/Pluto

WOW !
Very interesting, Bas! And I think Gail will find your assessment of her midpoints between those three planets very interesting.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 04:17 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Gail View Post
I 've read an article about midpoints(heliocentric nodes).Venus and ASC midpoints is about to physical beauty too...And We should check Aphrodite,Helena(Helen),Bella,Galatea,Eros,Psyche, Astarte,Innanen, Ishtar,Hathor,Esther,Pan and Nymphe....

Another exceptions are Natalie Portman,Gisele Bundchen,Brooke Shields and Michelle Pfeiffer....

This is about Venus-Saturn hard aspects and celebrities....
Actually, none of these are exceptions. Portman does not have a birth time, there is something interesting about her time, which I will share.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Other Examples


Gail mentioned some exceptions, but it appears they are not exceptions at all.

Natalie Portman



Portman does not have a birth time, so we cannot know where her ascendant, which also means that the ruler of the chart is undeterminable. Nevertheless, a planet this is of primary importance in her chart is Mercury since the Sun and Moon are both ruled by Mercury. The Mercurial influence is drastically augmented by a tight conjunction with Venus. Venus is square to Saturn, but Saturn is in a very good condition, being exalted and conjunct Jupiter, the latter of which also aspects Venus and Mercury.

Brooke Shields



Brooke's Venus is strong and forms a square to her ascendant.

Michelle Pfeiffer



Michelle's Venus is strong in the chart despite an aspect from Saturn, and it squares her ascendant. Saturn is not in a condition to harm Venus so as to weaken its influence on Pfeiffer.

Gisele Bundchen



Bundchen's Venus aspects the ruler of her chart.
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  #37  
Unread 08-04-2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

I did my research and found that these people didn't have the Venus link either There's Marilyn Monroe, Liv Tyler, Kirsten Dunst, Jennifer Lopez, Evan Rachel Wood, Ann Sheridan and Catherine Zeta-Jones
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  #38  
Unread 08-04-2013, 07:02 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Okay. I am working on something at the moment, so I'll post the charts later. But I will discuss some of the charts.

Jennifer Lopez's birth time is unknown, so I won't even speculate.

Marylyn Monroe, however, has a AA rating, but her birth time is exactly 9:30. Granted that she could have been born exactly at 9:30, I nonetheless find it suspect and that the time was probably rounded off or an approximation. Sometimes nurse and doctors make a guess after the birth of the child. But if you look at her chart, her Venus is making a trine to the ascendant by sign. And a difference of approximately 25 minutes would allow for a nice square to her ascendant. And, interestingly, it is one of those situations where it is a square coming from Aries to Leo, making it a trine/square

Next, Zeta-Jones' birth time is from memory, but even then, her Venus forms a trine with the ascendant. It has a wide orb, but then again, her time is from memory and might not be accurate.

Liv Tyler's birth time is from memory. But it is within minutes of forming a trine to her chart ruler, which is the Moon. That is minutes.

I'll look at the others later, and I'll try to post these charts so people can see.

Regardless, I appreciate the exceptions that you are finding. This is still very much a theory, so reworking the theory is going to be necessary. And you are definitely helping in that area!

Just out of curiosity, is your birth time from your birth certificate?
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Last edited by Cypocryphy; 08-04-2013 at 07:06 PM.
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Unread 08-04-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service View Post
When using midpoints method (45 degrees orb 2.30) much becomes clear.

In charts of "physical Beauty" women; also connections from - - connected to...

Ascendant, Midheaven, Equatorial Ascendant
Venus/MC
Venus/Asc.
Venus/Equatorial Asc.
Venus/Neptune
Venus/Mars
Venus/Jupiter
Asc/MC
Sun/Moon

Etc...

.. points to attractiveness.

Often this is already indicated by the "Venus link" !
This is really interesting. Thank you for sharing!

I've been thinking about it and am curious as to what led you to connect Venus, Saturn and Pluto with physical beauty? What is it about Pluto do you think lends itself to symbolizing beauty?
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  #40  
Unread 08-05-2013, 04:24 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

[QUOTE=Cypocryphy;490832]Skillcoil brought up some interesting points, which should be addressed.



It is true that this thread is ethnocentric. But you should ask yourself why it is ethnocentric. There is a simple reason. Most of the information that I gather is based on (1) identifiable celebrities known for their physical beauty, (2) whether they are in astro.com's data base, and (3) whether they have an AA Rodden rating (or close to it at times), the latter of which is extremely important since we are using the ascendant as a focal point.

The ethnocentric and racial issue has resulted because of an extreme difficulty in finding beautiful celebrities who have a double A Rodden rating. I have looked for Beyonce, Vanessa Williams, Jada Smith, Iman, Naomi Campbell, Hard Kaur, Shruti Hassan, Konnie Huq, Yu Wexia, Michelle Yeoh, etc. They are either not in the data base or have such a poor Rodden rating as to be completely unreliable.

Are there different standards throughout the world? Yes, in a sense, but it is a misleading statement. Aside from various isolated cultures who engage in bizarre behavior, such as making a woman eat herself fat or having rings placed in increments around the neck of young girls until each one looks like a giraffe, beauty is the same. Look at India, China, Japan. The differences are mild. As I said in another post, and I will say it again: Physical beauty is geometry of the body, based on precise ratios with mild deviation. Noticing that someone is beautiful and another is ugly is as subjective as noticing that one shape is a circle and the other is a square.





There are millions of beautiful ethnic women you could have included, you need to be comprehensive in your research so that your conclusions are more generalizable. The site http://www.astrosage.com/celebrity-horoscope/ has the charts of many famous Bollywood and Hollywood stars with precise birth times. This site also rates the quality of birth data and is very useful.
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  #41  
Unread 08-05-2013, 07:49 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

In lieu of the "ethnocentricity", I've added some of the ones I know. They are, or are at some point in their life, universally considered "beautiful".

They all have a RR of AA except for J Baker which is a C. There are a few apparent exceptions to what Cypocryphy surmises as an indication for beauty based on a natal chart, so it's open for discussion.

Vanessa Williams - Former Miss America


A possible exception, I do not see anything here.


Halle Berry [Is there are reason this woman apparently doesn't age?]


Another possible exception. There is a sextile between ASC and Venus, but it is very wide with an orb of 9. However, Jupiter conjunct her chart ruler Venus, perhaps that 'expands' her beauty and Venusian qualities? Plus NN conjuncts her ASC exactly


Dorothy Dandridge


ASC trine Venus


Lena Horne


Possible exception again


Phylicia Rashād [Bill Cosby's wife in The Cosby Show]


Another possible exception


Josephine Baker


ASC trine Venus


Florence "Flo Jo" Griffith Joyner - American Track Star in the 1980s, still holds the women's 100m Record


Possible exception? She does have Venus rising, and her ASC conjunct her NN


Serena Williams - American Tennis Player


No relation between Venus and ASC that I can see, but she is a Libra with Venus Rising so maybe that helps.

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  #42  
Unread 08-05-2013, 08:11 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Whitney Houston was also stunning in her youth and had what many beauty specialists called perfectly symmetrical features.
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  #43  
Unread 08-05-2013, 08:35 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by dioskouris View Post
In lieu of the "ethnocentricity", I've added some of the ones I know. They are, or are at some point in their life, universally considered "beautiful".
This is great! Thank you.

Quote:
They all have a RR of AA except for J Baker which is a C. There are a few apparent exceptions to what Cypocryphy surmises as an indication for beauty based on a natal chart, so it's open for discussion.
Yes. They all do. I have to comment on Vanessa Williams' chart, however. When I first looked at her chart, she had a low Rodden rating. But just two days ago, they found her birth announcement and updated her data on astro.com.
Quote:
In August 2013 the time 11:28 am was confirmed, when Scholfield quoted the autobiography "You have no idea", which has on page 73 "Vanessa was born ten days late on March 18, 1963, at 11:28 am". A copy of the baby card appears on page 75.
Regarding Vanessa Williams' chart, look at her bounds, and you will see the Venusian influence. In the beginning of this post, I mentioned the influence of the terms. These usually reinforce the already existing aspects, but you will almost always find that if you do not have the aspects, the ascendant will be in the bounds of Venus.

Halle Berry's time has an A rating because it is from memory. So it might be off, which could make the sextile to her ascendant much stronger.

I'm going to look at the others, such as Lena Horne, in more detail when it is not so late. But this is wonderful. I really appreciate this post. Thank you.

I'm going to share some others that I found, as well. These all have, allegedly, "known birth times."

Nutan Samarth



She has a perfect trine to her ascendant.

Dimple Kapadia



She has Venus as the chart ruler (often a substitute for the other factors as can be seen), forming a trine to her Moon in the first house.

Vanmala



Her ascendant is in libra, making Venus her rising sigh, which forms an opposition to the ascendant.

Shashikala



Venus forms a sextile to the chart ruler, which is Jupiter.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 08:38 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service View Post
There is an expression in my country: If you want to be beautiful, you must suffer.
I never thought of this group of planets before, but was surprised when I examined it.
Just some thoughts ...
Pluto is whatever its influence connected to Venus by the Scorpio/Taurus axis.
Saturn should have influence on the bones construction and together with Venus the attractive design,
Saturn together with Pluto the aging process and suffering.
Venus and Pluto for the beautiful magical appeal, the mystery of the femme fatale beauty DNA.
Those 3 together in the mix a beautiful magical design.
This theory certainly lives up to the saying in your country. Your explanation does make sense. Although I do have question - Wouldn't Mars fit in anywhere with this trio?
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Unread 08-05-2013, 08:40 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by IWDWSWLM View Post
Whitney Houston was also stunning in her youth and had what many beauty specialists called perfectly symmetrical features.
Whitney Houston



Houston's Venus forms a trine to her chart ruler, which is Jupiter.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 12:47 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service View Post
This mixed trio combined with Mars can be found in charts of attractive athletes, physical beautiful sports women, muscular and energetic women.
Ah I see. I had a suspicion that Mars may play a role because quite often many famous celebrities have their own personal trainers and thus help them acquire and maintain that Herculean look.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 11:39 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

Yesterday I read this thread and it disturbed me to my core, I knew without searching that for every chart of an attractive person showing an aspect of Venus to the Ascendant/chart ruler, there are many that do not have this. I pushed my Aquarian 'craziness' about how everyone is beautiful in different ways, attractiveness being a matter of taste and impossible to determine or measure, to the side, for a definition of attractiveness based on the general opinion of the masses, and set out to find some exceptions to the rule for the thread, and indeed there were some, including Marilyn Monroe, which I see has already been brought to your attention, and you've addressed.

I abandoned ship because I was hesitant to make a contribution to this thread, on this touchy subject - and yes, it is touchy, however untouchy we may like it to be - and I was literally falling asleep, but I felt bad. And I would like to rectify that by at least giving my opinion.

I am no longer disturbed. It is not racist. It is not sexist. It is not even saying that those who lack these Venus aspects are necessarily denied physical beauty. You've fixed all that. I applaud you for your innovation, and for trying to share what could be an interesting astrological link to physical attractiveness. You meant no harm. I feel that your adamant defence of your Venus theory for women, is unhealthily single-minded, and displays a good example of astrology being manipulated to ineffective use. Never mind a study that shows that women are unable to judge the attractiveness of a man without factoring in success, defences such as nurses possibly (sounded like surely?) recording birth times 20 mins off, leave no room for real answers. I don't understand what you're so convinced about your Venus theory for. Give it time. And facts.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 11:51 PM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Originally Posted by StillConfused View Post
Yesterday I read this thread and it disturbed me to my core, I knew without searching that for every chart of an attractive person showing an aspect of Venus to the Ascendant/chart ruler, there are many that do not have this. I pushed my Aquarian 'craziness' about how everyone is beautiful in different ways, attractiveness being a matter of taste and impossible to determine or measure, to the side, for a definition of attractiveness based on the general opinion of the masses, and set out to find some exceptions to the rule for the thread, and indeed there were some, including Marilyn Monroe, which I see has already been brought to your attention, and you've addressed.

I abandoned ship because I was hesitant to make a contribution to this thread, on this touchy subject - and yes, it is touchy, however untouchy we may like it to be - and I was literally falling asleep, but I felt bad. And I would like to rectify that by at least giving my opinion.

I am no longer disturbed. It is not racist. It is not sexist. It is not even saying that those who lack these Venus aspects are necessarily denied physical beauty. You've fixed all that. I applaud you for your innovation, and for trying to share what could be an interesting astrological link to physical attractiveness. You meant no harm. I feel that your adamant defence of your Venus theory for women, is unhealthily single-minded, and displays a good example of astrology being manipulated to ineffective use. Never mind a study that shows that women are unable to judge the attractiveness of a man without factoring in success, defences such as nurses possibly (sounded like surely?) recording birth times 20 mins off, leave no room for real answers. I don't understand what you're so convinced about your Venus theory for. Give it time. And facts.
Fair enough. But I am defending it because there are a significant amount of examples to make this a compelling case for astrology working relatively consistently, although in the end, it could be wrong. Time will tell, which is why I defend it. It should not yet be abandoned.

I am aware that self-esteem can be largely centered on one's appearance, but it really is an insignificant factor. The aging process, accidents, life stress, and much more, will all have an impact.

Ask yourself this: if I were analyzing this as to who is considered tall and who is considered short based on astrological factors, would you be so perturbed? Try not to look at this so subjectively or as some case where it makes a judgment upon a person because they either have Venus or or they do not. It is really a small part in the makeup of a person.
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Unread 08-06-2013, 12:46 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Ah I see. I had a suspicion that Mars may play a role because quite often many famous celebrities have their own personal trainers and thus help them acquire and maintain that Herculean look.
I also suspect Mars may play a role - that's because the first example of Physical Beauty posted is of Pamela Anderson - a Hollywood actress/star famous for the multiple cosmetic surgeries she has endured in order to attain the Hollywood ideal of Physical Beauty

Hollywood stars are notorious in fact for 'going under the knife' in order to further their careers by attaining the current fashionable ideal of Physical Beauty
- JMO Physical Beauty is judged by society, and since societies differ then ideal Physical Beauty is not 'set in stone' but instead is a variable ALMOST entirely dependent on the perception of cultural norms and values. I say 'almost' because there are many within any society who - as individuals - frequently differ from the status quo view of 'normal' and 'valuable' indicators of Physical Beauty.

Not everyone agrees that Physical Beauty consists entirely of strategically applied makeup to cover cosmetic surgery scars all combined with carefully chosen camera angles
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Unread 08-06-2013, 03:58 AM
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Re: How to Recognize Physical Beauty

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Some male examples: - - -

Jean Claude van Damme: Venus/Mars=Venus/Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Mars/Asc.,
Mars/Saturn=Sun/Moon, Mars/Pluto=Saturn/Pluto,
Mars/Pluto=Venus/MC, Saturn/Pluto=Venus/MC
Mars/Pluto=Venus/Asc., Saturn/Pluto=Venus/Asc.

Brad Pitt: Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Venus/Jupiter,
Venus/Saturn=Asc/MC, Venus/Pluto=Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Mars/Equatorial Asc.
Venus/Pluto=Venus/Asc, Venus/Pluto=Mars/MC,
Mars/Saturn=Pluto, Mars/Saturn=Mars/Neptune,
Mars/Pluto=Equatorial Ascendant, Mars/Pluto=MC, Mars/Pluto=Mars/Asc.
Saturn/Pluto=Venus/Jupiter

Johnny Depp: Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Mars/Saturn,
Venus/Saturn=Mars/Neptune, Venus/Saturn=Mars/Asc.,
Venus/Pluto=Mars, Venus/Pluto=Saturn/Pluto,
Mars/Saturn=Venus, Saturn/Pluto=Mars

James Dean: Venus/Mars=Saturn, Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Pluto,
Venus/Mars=Mars/MC, Venus/Saturn=Venus/Pluto, Venus/Pluto=Ascendant,
Venus/Pluto=Venus/Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Asc/MC,
Mars/Saturn=Mars/Pluto, Saturn/Pluto=Mars/Equatorial Asc., Saturn/Pluto=Mars/MC


Chico Marx Venus Trine Ascendant
Harpo Marx Venus Square Ascendant
Groucho Marx Venus conjunct Ascendant
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