Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Other Astrology > Electional and Event Astrology

Electional and Event Astrology Discuss here astrologically good times to do things, and what's happening astrologically when something major happens. Includes sports astrology.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 05-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Three year old Maddie McCann was abducted from her bed whilst on holiday in Portugal (Praia da Luz, algarve) between 9.30 and 10pm local time on 3 May 2007. Her birthday is 12 May 2003 time unknown, UK.

If anyone proficient in horary can give any insight into where she can be found (dead or alive) please try and help.

As a horary question it has to be - Where is Madeleine? 17.20BST London, UK
Thank you AW Community
Attached Images
File Type: jpg madeleinemccann2.jpg (10.4 KB, 21 views)

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 05-09-2007, 06:14 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi there,

Horaries like this seldom work, to be honest. I've tried it myself with a local woman who went missing. The reason for this is, that horaries work best when there is a *vested personal interest* in the question. For example, if one of Madeleine's parents had asked this question the chart would be very valid. With a situation that is open to the vast public, it is very likely that there are many, many people out there who feel as you do, who are casting charts to find this little girl. Whose chart shall we use, and how do we select one over the other? And what would you do with the information you got from it? Call the police? It is important to consider the reason *why* you are asking, and what you would do with the outcome.

I can certainly appreciate the intention and concern behind casting a chart, especially with such a highly emotive issue, and there is no reason why one cannot *try* to read a chart like this. The danger is, however, that the chart is invalid from the start, and therefore any answer you are likely to get will not be of much help in the situation.

An event chart would perhaps yield better results, but as we don't have the exact time of her disappearance, even this is likely to be very flawed.

Best wishes,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 05-09-2007, 06:27 PM
Lissa's Avatar
Lissa Lissa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: On Chiron
Posts: 929
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi Futurist and Archergirl,

I believe Archergirl made a very good point,in fact,I casted a chart just on the day she went missing,but then I realised that,even if the chart lead me to a conclusion,I would not know what to do with it(should a16year old girl appear in front of the police saying"I know where the girl is"-"How do you know?"-"Err...I casted a horary chart."The portuguese police would not fall for that),so I just gave up.

Since the girl disappeared in my country,in a place where I've been several times before,I've been closely following the case on national TV.The girl went missing last Thursday,between10:00Pm and10:30PM,in Praia da Luz,Algarve,Portugal.
__________________
I was born with the wrong sign /In the wrong house /With the wrong ascendancy

Last edited by Lissa; 05-09-2007 at 06:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 05-10-2007, 07:38 AM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

I simply cannot believe that you ask me why I am asking for anyone's help. What ARE you insinuating? It is also totally lame to say what can I/we do with the information.

There are thousands of ordinary men and women (via an e-mail campaign) being sent posters and putting them up all over Europe to alert people at this very moment, should we say "Oh don't bother she'll never be in my country?" It's people with passion and conviction and belief who make a difference in life.

Of course it's emotive. There are also hundreds if not thousands of ordinary people and expats searching all around Praia da Luz and across the Algarve, many of whom 'believe' in astrology. Those are the people to whom any possible leads could be directed. Of course the Police would dismiss it. Even if there was only a 0.005% chance of any information being of help - that's a help. There are many people who do believe in alternative methods like this.

Of course the horary contains the information, all charts contain the entire situation just as the Universe is in us all.

There are many strict rules over horary and I hold up my hand and say I am not able to judge direction, location etc with the certainty that some of you proficient horary astrologers who frequent this site may be, hence the question.

If anyone can help in any way, I hope this resonates.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 05-10-2007, 09:09 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi Futurist,

Quote:
If anyone proficient in horary can give any insight into where she can be found (dead or alive) please try and help.
Actually, I *am* fairly proficient in horary, and I am telling you that missing persons charts seldom work unless you are directly involved! That is Astrology 101. As Lissa has noted, she also did a chart, and so probably have hundreds of other people. Being that all the charts are different, whose should we consider valid?

The thing with horary is, as I said, there needs to be a *vested*, *personal* interest in the matter, not a 'just wondering' or 'I wonder if I can help'.

As I also said, I have every admiration for people who are concerned about missing people. However, I feel that you are perhaps too plugged in to the situation to see things clearly; hundreds of children go missing every day around the world.

It is perhaps only because this child was snatched from an apparently safe venue, and that her parents are both doctors, that this is getting so much publicity. That does not reduce the pain and suffering of the people involved, but I feel that you need to put this into perspective.

To wit: if Maddie's parents had asked this question or had asked you personally to do this, or the police for that matter, the question would be valid. That you are doing it out of concern and for your own personal reasons, does not necessarily make a chart readable, and unless you are highly skilled in locational horary, any answer you might get will be of little help to anyone.

For example, the missing person chart I did in January, was for a woman who was last seen getting on a bus and never arrived home. She had been having some mental health troubles, and after reading the news I felt quite badly for her and for her worried family, so I did a chart. (I am Gunhilde).

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2149

Finding a missing thing/person is challenging for the best astrologers, and I am by no means an expert, but I learned from this experience. As you can see, I was on the right track, but what could I tell police about a northerly woodland, in England, and how would that have helped them find her? Cambridge is surrounded by little woodlands and meadows, but she was found in woodland in Norfolk, many miles from where she was last seen. How do you pinpoint a person in such conditions?

So I'm not trying to put a damper on your enthusiasm or commitment, but you should understand that some venues are only open where there is a personal connection to the thing sought. Horary is one of those. Some may disagree with me on this of course, and give the chart a go, but IMO to do a chart where there is no true personal need to know, is sloppy astrology. I've tried it!

Since it is your chart, if you feel you *do* have a vested interest in finding the answer, perhaps it would be best if you gave your own chart a go first...

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ement.php?f=43

Best wishes,
AG

Last edited by archergirl; 05-10-2007 at 10:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 05-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archergirl
Hi Futurist,


The thing with horary is, as I said, there needs to be a *vested*, *personal* interest in the matter, not a 'just wondering' or 'I wonder if I can help'.

but IMO to do a chart where there is no true personal need to know, is sloppy astrology.

Best wishes,
AG
Don't take this too personally I'm responding to your reply rather than to you as a person. but IMO Archergirl this is sanctimonious and condescending. What are we astrologers for if not to look at the correspondences between celestial and terrestrial and use that information to guide us aright in life? When we really do have a tool at out disposal that might be of help, everyone suddenly scuttles behind excuses, afraid to put their head above the parapet. I'm doing my bit elsewhere, I was just putting the call out here for any extra help in an area that is simply not my specialisation. Can I ask where is this rule about having a personal vested interest the question to make it valid ? (You can e-mail me privately) I believe(d) it's all about the intention you bring to the reading. When Jill Dando was killed John Frawley did a brilliant horary naming the description of the killer his location and many other details weeks/months before he was caught. Admittedly it didn't help at the time. We gave it to the Police but there simply wasn't the network in place, at that time in the late 90's, that there is today to get information out elsewhere. Do you regard John as a sloppy astrologer?You also make many automatic assumptions.

I take your point about woods, scrubland and search areas but I reiterate that if everyone takes the 'Oh what help could I be' point of view.. well anyway, The Mars/pluto sq is fueling my anger and frustration here so I'll desist or it will just get worse but I don't need your pronouncement that I have no perspective or the cold attitude of 'many kids disappear every day' ...lets get back to searching for lost cattle, rings etc. If you hadn't questioned my motives, my question would remain at the top and that would have been that. Suffice to say my intention was and is 100% pure.

It could be one of our own one day.

If anyone wants the poster campaign forwarded to them please contact me - especially those with contacts in Spain and Northern Portugal. There is always a remote possibility Madeleine was kidnapped 'to order' for an adoption agency and has been trafficked to another location. She was taken when venus was in Gemini. Venus signifies Madeleine in my horary and Gemini points to more than one person having her.

Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 05-10-2007, 11:14 AM
Draco Draco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England.
Posts: 1,444
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi Futurist.

I'm thinking about this and looking into it, but I'm doing three things at once so bear with me and I will respond to this soon.

My opinion on this is more neutral than Archergirl's, which I will explain in my post.
__________________
Neither a leader nor a follower be.

Last edited by Draco; 05-10-2007 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 05-10-2007, 11:19 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Futurist,

My reply is intended to be neither sanctimonious nor condescending, but rather to emphasise that you ought, ideally, to have some personal connection in a question as important as this. It really is as simple as that. Nothing personal, simply a statement of philosophy. I'm not alone in believing this, for sure.

http://www.moonvalleyastrologer.com/..._astrology.htm

If it were my child, you can bet I would do a horary. But Maddie's parents have NOT done a horary to our knowledge, and you have not answered the question about whose chart should be considered valid, when many are done...?

John Frawley can do what he wishes, and he has the skill to do so, but as you have said, what good did it do in the end? I don't regard Frawley as a sloppy astrologer, but I don't necessarily think that Frawley has the final say on things, either. I am cautious about putting too much faith in something just because someone else does it!

This isn't about 'head above the parapet' thinking; it is a caution that as

a) you do not know the players and
b) you do not have all the information, only what has been given to you via the media,

any chart is likely to be missing several important elements from the start, and your reading of the chart is likely to be heavily laced with guesswork and extrapolation. You do not *know* what Venus in Gemini signifies; you are guessing, and there is a very real danger where there is no direct involvement, you will try to find something in the chart that 'fits the story', instead of the other way 'round. Does providing the parents with faulty information, or information they can do nothing with (as in the Dando case) really amount to 'helping' them? How could you guarantee that your information was of use? Also, if Maddie *is* being trafficked (I have my doubts), she will be moving frequently. How will you find her if she is in constant motion?

I sound like a very negative creep, and honestly I'm not! I am very much in favour of using horary for important questions, but horary is not a tool to be used without discernment, and if you're going to run a chart like this, you had best have the skill to read it. I can't tell you how many charts I've done that wound up being 'over my head' to read with any skill.

I really do understand what you are trying to achieve, and wish you the best of luck with it, but I imagine that a hundred different horarists are doing a hundred different charts and getting a hundred different answers. Whose is right?

And Draco, are you suggesting I'm not neutral? *wink*

Best wishes,
AG

Last edited by archergirl; 05-10-2007 at 11:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 05-10-2007, 12:42 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Aww, and now I'm feeling bad about being so negative!

I'll attach a good link for 'Thieves, Fugitives and Strays' for those who want to work this out. I'm sceptical, but hey! I'm open-minded, and I'd rather be wrong in a situation such as this.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gadtext.html

The abductor would be the 7th, I believe.

Best,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 05-10-2007, 01:06 PM
Draco Draco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England.
Posts: 1,444
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

There appears to be some confusion over the time at which Madeleine disappeared.

The BBC reports that Madeleine was discovered missing by her parents at about 9.45pm, and that a call was made to report her missing at 22.00. I always take the time as given in the most official media reports as the correct time from which to cast event charts, instead of deliberating over whether the minute is 'accurate' or only allowing for a broad region of time. Astrology does not allow for anything to happen in a moment in time that does not possess the qualities of that moment, so we needn't question the significance of the reported times, for if we were not meant to cast our charts from these we would not have had such data presented to us at the time at which it was.

In any case, despite the variant times reported in various places, 22.00 always comes up. A suggestion we ought to use it.

One thing I believe in strongly in horary, is whether or not the question needs to be, or should be asked. One instance in which a question should not be asked, is if the question is unnecessary, because there is some other way of finding out and astrology is being used as an abdication of this responsibilty. The other main reason that horaries don't need to be asked, is if there is an event chart that can be referred to, which must be considered more appropriate than any horary.

For example, if we know the time at which a football match is to begin, then we have an event chart from which to determine who is most likely to win, the host's of the match, being found in the ascendant, the opponent's the descendant. Horaries pertaining to the question of who will win, asked any length of time before the event are unnecessary, not that they cannot be answered, but just that they are a waste of time, because we have an event chart to refer to, the time at which everyone in the stadium and every viewer on live television is united in their unanimous question of 'Who will win?'. So such a chart must surely take precedence over the inquiry of a single individual, who's question was aroused along with that of many other indivduals, all in different places and times. Of course we can still try and answer these horaries, but it isn't so much a case of whether a question can be asked, of course it always can, but it is more a matter of which questions should be asked, and if it is needed. There needs to be a very personal, vested interest in horary questions, and queries that concern many people being united in the asking of a question, can usually be answered in an event chart.

In the same way, the event charts for Madeleine's disappearance are better than any horary, because the time at which her parent's contacted the police, was the parent's own declaration of the desparate question of 'Where is Maddie?'. This is the time of the questioning, the alarm, the urgency, the question that met it's ultimate crystallisation as evidenced by the call to the authorities, that was asked on behalf of everyone who has pondered this question since, which must surely be a more significant chart to explore than the charts cast by many well-meaning but casual inquirers in many different places and times. The original query of the parents as embodied in their call to the police is the best chart that we have.

I feel that the 22.00 chart, the parent's phone-call, could be interpreted as a horary, because this chart embodies their question of 'Where is she?' better than the first, in which they were not certain that their daughter had actually disappeared until they had spent some time looking, and in any case, being the initiator of the event, Madeleine is the ascendant in the first chart and the questioner is always the ascendant, but it is the parents that might be considered querents here.

The second chart gives us the parents as the ascendant, initiating the action in calling the police, and in doing so, consolidating their obvious desparate question of the matter of where she has gone, and so horary principles, I believe, could possibly, be applied to this second chart.

Annoyingly, I could not find coordinates for Plaia La Luz, neither on Google Earth, Astrodienst or Wikipedia, only for Lagos, which I believe is very close. I'm able to find coordinates for Timbuktu, but not Plaia La Luz!

The first chart, for when she was discovered missing, gives an ascendant of Sagittarius 01.01, and because the coordinates are not perfect, it is very tempting to think that Madeleine went missing, or was discovered missing, when the ascendant was within the diminishing degrees of Scorpio, conjoined with the Moon in it's fall, and first magnitude fixed star 'Toliman', the Hoof of the Centaur.

The hoof or foot is representative of the basest in our nature, as opposed to the crown, the location of the halo and thousand-petalled lotus. The foot represents our attachment to the material, and so is the lowliest in our nature, much to the reason that in Arabic culture it is the greatest offence to present the soles of your feet toward a person. With Toliman rising, here we have in the Hoof of the Centaur, the basest not only in human nature but in the nature of the humanic beast, which may well be significant here. So I'm guessing with better coordinates we would have the last of Scorpio rising, rather than the first of Sagittarius for when she was discovered missing.

In any case, let's look at the second chart for 22.00, which being the parents ultimate precipitation of their question 'Where is she?', in their call to police, and explore it as a horary.

To be honest I don't like exploring such charts, this isn't a lost earring or a new boyfriend inquiry, and despite my discomfort, I'll have a go. It's just if I was to predict doom and gloom, and then she turns up safe and well, I'll feel bad and look an idiot, but horary requires the talking of such risks, because it demands a precise answer, so with the experimental theory that the parent's phone-call to the authorities can be interpreted as a horary, in that this action is the parent's desparately wondering where she is, I'll give it a go.

I will also have a look at your own horary Futurist, in that it has found it's way here, one of us is meant to look at it, but the event chart must take priority. If the event and the horary are in agreement, then this is good, but if not, I would be inclined to go for the event.

In the event chart set for 22.00, the first degrees of Sagittarius rise, embodying the burgeoning sense of urgency as the parents have exhausted all possibilities in exploring where the child might be. Significantly, fixed star Graffias rises upon the ascendant, the Scorpion's Head, presenting us with an ominous title to the unfolding drama. Ptolemy likens this star to the malefic planets, and as such, he would appear to consider this the most malefic star in the constellation of the Scorpion. Robson describes the star's influence as '...extreme malevolence, mercilessness, fiendishness, repulsiveness, malice, theft, crime...', and we can see how this description well applies here.

The first place to look in this chart, is at the Moon, the transmitter of all astrological influence to earth, and the general significator of all things inquired after, and the natural significator of all 'wandering' or missing things, especially animate ones. Given what is going on with the Moon, things do not look well for Madeleine.

The Moon is in the sign of it's fall, the Moon presides over the eighth house of death, and it is in the sign ruling the twelfth and bodily in the twelfth, and it is well void of course on the last degree of the sign. The twelfth is the house of the 'hidden enemy', and generally the most unfortunate of all houses, and so to the parents, this represents the unknown person who abducted their child, and with the Moon in this state, Madeleine is depicted as well and truly within the hands of the hidden enemy, and with the Moon coming void, the this may spell the end of the road for her, especially as the Moon rules the radix eighth. Furthermore, not only is the Moon the ruler of the eighth, but it is again in Madeleine's turned eighth house of death (Madeleine being the fifth).

Madeleine, as the child of the parents who are the ascendant, is to be found also in the fifth, and this is ruled by Mars. Mars is in Pisces, and is in the fourth house, which again is not good, because the fourth tells of the 'end of matters' and is also considered to be the place of 'the grave', which again, in light of the Moon's state, which incidentally is disposited by Mars, is another negative testimony.

I do not usually use the transpersonal planets expect for close conjunctions, and Uranus is right upon the IC, suggesting a most disruptive conclusion to this matter, perhaps with Mars in the fourth, with the discovery of her body, and with water signs ruling the deadly houses, and Mars in Pisces, it may be that she will be found in water, or at least by the sea. The Dragon's Head is also tied to the fourth cusp, suggesting the precipitation of an unfortunate conclusion. Mars is a most unusual significator for a little girl, but Mars embodies fear, pain and violence. Mars is confined in Madeleine's own most unfortunate twelfth house and is in the turned eighth house of death of her overt enemy.

Madeleine significator's do not paint a very happy picture at all. From this alone I believe she has been murdered, but sadly, this is most usually probable in such cases, and the chart appears to confirm tragedy.

Let's look at the parents. I am a little suprised that the parents are embodied in Jupiter, the planet in it's domicile, as the parent's shouldn't be depicted as well dignified in this situation, furthermore Jupiter is in the first, the strongest of houses and the house it rules the cusp of, so very much at home. This makes Jupiter the Lord of the Geniture, or the planet that is equipped with the most power to act in the situation. This raises questions for me, because this does not seem to describe the distraught parents at their wits end, yet they are not described as powerless and helpless as we would expect, they're the strongest planet in the chart, so I'm going to have to draw a big question mark over that. Jupiter is still hampered however, in that it is retrograde and slow in motion, so the parents are in a position of strength, but hampered, pondering, deliberating and hesistant when they make this call - this worries me. Let's not forget either that the Scorpions Head, implying malefic knowledge, is conjoined with their ascendant.

This makes me question the parents role in this event. I am not trying to imply that they have any involvement with their daughter's disappearance, but I am questioning why they are not shown as powerless but as rather much in a position of control, aside from some hesistation and back-stepping. Jupiter not only rules the ascendant but rules the fourth cusp as well, therefore, this drama begins with the parents and will end with the parents.

I wonder if this reflects the parent's knowledge that the event is their own fault due to irresponsibility? Hopefully it is nothing darker.

Jupiter's greatest concern is with itself, it is in it's own domicile and triplicity, and is in Mercury's term, which ruling the tenth represents the authorities. The only reception of Madeleine is that Jupiter is in the Moon's face, a very minor dignity, so the parent's priorities seem to be mainly with themselves, then the authorities, and only then with Madeleine.

Jupiter is backing up to a mutual, partile trine with detriment Saturn, and Saturn ruling the third house, represents the phone-call, but Saturn's state would imply something bad about it. Jupiter has no reception of Saturn, but Saturn receives Jupiter into it's triplicity, so the person on the other end of the phone has a decent measure of concern for the parents, but why are the parents so detached from the call, being in none of Saturn's dignities, but being pained to come up against it, Saturn being so malefic. Saturn appears in the radical ninth house, the house of God and higher knowledge, and so the call is described as an appeal for help, but Saturn is in the turned twelfth from the tenth, so I wonder if something was being kept from the authorities in the phone-call?

You see I just don't like this. First Jupiter, the parent's, are depicted as well dignified and in control, and yet, due to the retrograde and slowness of motion, and the partile trine with Saturn, the phonecall, the parents are hesistant and indirect, the phone-call being something that they would rather not come up against. This makes me feel very suspicious, and I'm not trying to suggest that the parents were somehow involved, but I do wonder what it is that they were doing wrong that made them so hesitant to contact the police, and to be so very concerned with themselves, while their concern for Madeleine, appears to take a minor role. So I will be keeping a watch on this, but I'm getting into hot water so I'll move on.

What of the abductor, Madeleine's overt enemy? To the parent's (we presume), the adbuctor is the covert enemy, as they do not know who this is, but to the girl, he is the overt enemy, as she has encountered him. Therefore we take the opposite cusp to her's which is the fifth, and find the perpetrator in the eleventh, as her opponent. This makes Venus the significator of the abductor, and in a double bodied sign, there may be more than one, with Venus, considering the extreme unlikelyhood of a woman doing this, then we have a young, good looking, perhaps slightly built man or men, perhaps scarcely more than boy's themselves. Venus in Gemini might even show lovers. In any case, both Venus and Gemini are associated with a slight build. Venus underlines a sexual motive for the perpetrator, and as Gemini is symbolised by human children, a paedophile is described. When Venus enters Cancer, it will have the minor dignity of face, and in not being so concerned with the authorities, the perpetrator is in a safer position with this imminent transition.

The last aspect of Venus was a square to Mars, showing contact with Madeleine, and with the square, tense, difficult contact. Again, the Venus aspect to Mars suggests sexual contact, but with a square across double-bodied signs, rape. It would be good to see where Venus is translating it's light to see where Madeleine is going. Unfortunately, Venus will not translate Madeleine's light anywhere, as Venus is void, and will only change signs, from whence it cannot carry light over the border. The fact that the light of Madeleine cannot be transported anywhere, I find further testimony that she is probably dead, considering the state of her significators.

I don't believe a great amount of force would have been necessary to take the girl, and this is because Mars exalts Venus, so either the perpetrator was someone known to and liked by Madeleine, or he was able to obtain her trust rather quickly, enough so that she would have liked him well. Venus' interest in her is described by being in Mars' term, enough to show an interest, but certainly not enough dignity to show a genuine fondness.

Venus will move from Gemini to Cancer, out of the domicile of Mercury, to the domicile of the Moon. Mercury represents the authorities in this chart, and so Venus in Mercury's domicile, shows the perpetrator's intense awareness of the police, however, as a change of signs is imminent, the perpetrator seeks to make a get away, perhaps by moving across a border into another country or region, outside the juristiction of the local authorities. This would perhaps be somewhere away from the high altitudes and populated environs of Gemini and onto the quieter coast or near water, as the sign is Cancer. Venus in Cancer will place Venus in the domicile of the Moon, where he can take his mind off the authorities, and absorb himself in thoughts of his victim. Venus is peregrine and in an angular house, which traditionally represents a fugitive.

I find it interesting that Mercury and Venus are in mutual reception, so the perpetrator and the authorities have a great deal of interest in one and other, and obviously the authorities seek to catch this person, and it may well be someone they were already looking for, but Venus is also very aware of them, so can remain two steps ahead, particularly as Venus is about to change signs unchallenged by any aspect of any planet along the way. Again, I don't include transpersonals unless for exact conjunctions, but if Pluto has anything to do with crime and punishment, then Venus' imminent opposition to Pluto shows the perpetrator distancing himself form these things, and this is the last thing he does before changing signs.

The authorities are embodied in the tenth cusp in Virgo, and so Mercury. Mercury happens to very terribly combust. This is the worst thing that can happen to a planet, and this would seem to completely destroy any efforts that the authorities might put into finding the girl. As if it couldn't get any worse, the Dragon's Tail is tied to the midheaven, and Mercury is upon the sixth cusp of disorder. Mercury being ruler of the seventh cusp from the parents, also shows the co-operating parties assisting in the search, but the combustion scuppers their efforts as well. The good news is that Mercury is separating from this combustion, so things will improve as time goes on. The trouble is, Venus will change signs before Mercury is free of combustion.

Mercury is applying to sextile Mars, so the authorities are to make contact with Madeleine, but let us consider the terrible state of her significators, the change of residence, or border, or habitat of the perpetrator, and the terrible blighting of the authoritie's abilities to do anything to find her, and it would seem that this aspect probably pertains to the discovery of a body.

This aspect occured in real time on the 8th of May, but she has still not been discovered, so I'll use a symbolic measure. Mercury is the applying planet, and is in a fixed sign, and a cadent house. Fixed gives a long time measure, and cadent a short, so I would go for weeks, rather than months or days. The aspect perfects in about eight degrees, so this may reflect about eight weeks of time, and if so, the body should be recovered in early July, but in any case a unit of eight.

Now I'll just have to wait and see.
__________________
Neither a leader nor a follower be.

Last edited by Draco; 05-12-2007 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 05-10-2007, 02:25 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

I'm glad you posted that, Draco.

Quote:
So such a chart must surely take precedence over the inquiry of a single individual, who's question was aroused along with that of many other indivduals, all in different places and times. Of course we can still try and answer these horaries, but it isn't so much a case of whether a question can be asked, of course it always can, but it is more a matter of which questions should be asked, and if it is needed. There needs to be a very personal, vested interest in horary questions, and queries that concern many people being united in the asking of a question, can usually be answered in an event chart.
I had suggested in my first post that an event chart would be a much better bet than a horary chart, although there is always the question of 'when', as you have discovered with your exploration of the 22.00 chart.

However, my gut feeling is that your take on the chart is probably correct, and that this frantic searching is likely a hiding to nothing, as tragedy is the sadly predictable outcome of such events.

My heart goes out to the parents. I too have left my kids in a (locked) hotel room while we went downstairs to the hotel bar, and like the McCanns we also went back upstairs to check frequently, hoping that the world is a trustful place, not quite sure that it actually is.

I shall no longer do this.

I wonder if this is why Jupiter is shown in the state it's in. Perhaps the door was NOT locked, as they said; perhaps they did NOT go and check on the children as frequently as they said. This would explain the hesitation and concern for themselves; they are both of 'high status', and would not want to appear to have done something causal in the abduction. One of the worst parts about being a parent is not making mistakes with your children, but being judged by everyone else for those mistakes.

AG

Last edited by archergirl; 05-10-2007 at 02:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 05-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Draco,

I don't know what to say. Thank you so much for going to such lengths to help here. I'm lost for words because I so want Madeleine to be alive and delving around in this area is very uncomfortable (for us all) and feels akin to 'ambulance chasing'. It's a minefield of emotion and political correctness. Leaving that to one side though I do know one thing I want to say,whether your judgement proves to right or wrong, you should be applauded for not only sticking your head above that proverbial parapet but also for a brilliant summation. IMO what you wrote is horary used at its best and precisely the way knowledge of this branch of astrology should be used. Outstanding. Thank you Draco.

If it had been that the chart(s) showed that Madeleine was alive I have no doubt that you could have offered a very detailed description of her likely location and we could have tendered that information and hoped for the best. As it is this obviously needs to be left alone to unfold in its own way. Who are we to say what all this is for regarding the path the parents have chosen to walk in this life? Archergirl was correct in her observation that we 'plug into' situations. We then project our feelings onto the parents, where they may in reality be reacting very differently to the way we would.

I mention this because of what you say about the parents. It's my belief that we are never sent more than we can bear in life. These two people as Doctors live their days around life and death, they will have been exposed to many situations in their line of work that would probably floor me or someone of a highly sensitive emotional make-up. If this had been my daughter I would not have been able to display the composure that Kate McCann has. I'd have despatched the twins off to my Mother and then I'd be banging on every door day and night searching. I'm not negating the pain they must be enduring but it shows that I should not assume that all people would feel what I feel. So, with regard to that dignified Jupiter, they are showing dignity but I wonder if the initial reaction was caused by the realisation that they may be judged for having left their children alone? Maybe they had been drinking and feared that if she had just managed to wander off, and was quickly found, they might fall foul of some obscure Portugese law if they had left 3 young children alone and been intoxicated? It's one explanation for vague reluctance in those very first minutes at 10PM.

Whatever the eventual outcome here (and D -I have received two other horaries privately that have sadly delivered the same tragic outcome so don't worry about calling it as you see it) some good will come out of it. How many children will now be more cherished and watched over whilst on holiday. What new laws will come into being to prevent child abduction. On this note, just before I go as this is getting long I received an e-mail this morning from someone talking about the Amber Alerts in place in the US.If this Alert system can be put in place across Europe and other countries as a result of all this, many other parents will potentially be spared this horrifying ordeal.

All that said, it's bandied around in quantum theory that life doesn't become a reality until the observer observes it, so maybe this horary shows what could have happened to Madeleine but the reality will be different. We can always hope.

Thanks again

* Archergirl - our posts crossed so I have just read yours. I too believe the door probably wasn't locked or they hadn't checked for longer than they said. It seems to make sense in light of Draco's findings

Last edited by Futurist; 05-11-2007 at 11:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 05-11-2007, 11:57 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

I have learned as much from this debate as you, Futurist!

Draco has provided not only a fantastic reading, but a good lesson for us horarists on when to use horary and when to use an event chart. I am very grateful for the education.

As Draco says: all we can do is wait and see now.

Best wishes,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 05-13-2007, 12:40 AM
crbarby crbarby is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hello to everybody,
My mother also made a classical horary question about the girl.

Where is Madeleine? 12/May/2007 22:35(local time), Budapest (Hungary)

Ascendant: Saggitarius 21°
Ruler of the hour: Jupiter (so the question is valid)
Asc shows the parents, so the 5th house shows Madeleine, ruled by Venus and with Sun in this house, it describe well the girl (Taurus is her natal sun sign)
11th house shows the kidnapper(s), which is ruled by Mars (as a significator of a young man), and as Mars in Pisces, suggest more than one man was involved.
The Moon also shows Madeleine (as a natural significator of lost person)
and its also in Pisces and just 1.5° degree before a conjunction with Mars.
That shows, Madeleine is with the kidnappers, and as both Moon and Mars in Pisces it seems sure that they are still in Portugal and very likely somewhere near to the place from she was disappeared. And as both Moon and Venus (so Madeleine's significators) are both in water signs - Pisces and Cancer - it suggest she must be somewhere very close the sea or the ocean.

And as MArs also the ruler of Madeleine's 8th house, until the Moon doesnt reach Mars, it almost sure that she's alive. The big question is how much time this 1.5 degree difference can mean? it can be 1.5-2 days but also weeks. And as Moon will reach Mars before it change sign, if Madeleine would not be found before the Moon-Mars conjunction become exact, it really feared, that she would not survive.
Especially that Mars will soon enter Aries, where it will be very strong, so after no chance that the police can catch them.

And as theres a mutual, strong reception between Mars and Venus (so between the kidnappers and Madeleine) its likely that the girl has known the men from somewhere.. and as Mars ruled by Jupiter(the parents) it seems the parents also know the kidnappers...and it can be a very valuable information.

Any comments or thoughts are really welcomed, and also if somebody has idea wether it would be possible to contact someone official to help the search, it would be fantastic.
i hope from my heart that Madeleine can be saved before sth horrible happens...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 05-13-2007, 09:24 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hello crbarby,

I think you might have missed the rest of thread discussion about multiple horaries; in any case we are all hoping that Madeleine is still alive.

Best,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 05-13-2007, 01:05 PM
Deirdre's Avatar
Deirdre Deirdre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 680
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.



Hi

i´ve red Draco´s prediction.
Unfortunatelly for things as they are now here in my country...that´s a probable outcome of this situation.
Im seeing the police making their efforts,but here,whenever they are analysing cases like this,they were never able to catch the pedophiles ,neither the children abducted...i feel very sad,and somehow responsible for this happening in my country.

Sincerely, i hope that Draco´s horary is wrong and that Madeleine return safe and unharmed to her family.

The right coordinates and most acurate possible for the place Madeleine was kidnapted is for Ocean Club, in the Rua Direita 44: 37.09 (37º5´) / -8.73(-8º43´) .

I dont know if Draco used only for Lagos, but these are most acurate,i think.

As for the parents, now i know something:

A waitress from the restaurant they were having dinner, said that the parents never stood up to see thei childre.That they were always in the dinner,and just left when they finished having dinner.
Maybe this was the part they were hidding from the police..and not anything more darkest..as parents,when they discovered that Madeleine was missing,maybe felt scared or afraid to say they left the children alone without seeing them for time to time?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 05-13-2007, 01:53 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Quote:
A waitress from the restaurant they were having dinner, said that the parents never stood up to see thei childre.That they were always in the dinner,and just left when they finished having dinner.
Maybe this was the part they were hidding from the police..and not anything more darkest..as parents,when they discovered that Madeleine was missing,maybe felt scared or afraid to say they left the children alone without seeing them for time to time?
Hi Deirdre,

This is my thought, as well. The problem is that they might have been afraid that other people would see them as 'negligent' by leaving their kids alone, instead of just naively trusting that their children were safe.

It's a terrible tragedy, however you look at it.

AG
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 05-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Lissa's Avatar
Lissa Lissa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: On Chiron
Posts: 929
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi everyone,

Congratulations to Draco,he really did a wonderful job on this,although the outcome he predicted isn't the most atractive of all.I tried to do a little bit more work on the chart Draco used,and I already posted my thoughts about it on another forum,would like to get your opinions on this.

I tried to explore the chart as throughtly as I could,strating from where Draco did,and I got exacly to the same conclusions as he.Starting from the Ascendant,it's very clear that the parents must be hidding something from the police.As Crbarby mentioned in the horary chart,I also believe that the parents knew the perpetrator(perhaps they have accidentaly met in a situation before).The modern ruler of the12th(the parent's hidden enemy),Pluto,is also in the1st,the parents house,and Pluto is going Rx,moving to conjunct Jupiter(the parents)which,to me,indicates the snatcher was to contact the parents but Jupiter is also Rx,sort of"running away"from Pluto.This leads me to believe there was to be a rescue note or something like that but that the parents made communication between the two of them impossible(with all that police surrounding them it's natural the snatcher felt intimidated).Plus,the turned7th(Maddie's open enemy)is signified by Venus and,in the radix chart,we find Venus in the7th(the parents' OPEN enemy),which supports my theory that the parents have met with this person before.Adding more to this,Venus also happens to rule the radix6th,the house that rules over maids and servants,which makes me wonder about a conspiracy between the snatcher and someone from inside the hotel.

I'm getting contradictory signs as to the person's gender but,like Draco said,the perpetrators could have been more than one.The ruler of the turned7th is a Feminine planet in a Masculine sign/house and the ruler of the radix12th is a Masculine planet in a Feminine sign/house.

As to the person's psychological traits,the sign on the radix12th(the parents hidden enemy)is Scorpio and the turned7th(Maddie's open enemy)is Libra.Libra rules over the West,places that are exposed to much light and air,off the ground plces like hillsides and mountains and rooms that are inside other rooms(wardrobes,garrets),also the upper rooms in houses and sandy ground(the hotel being near the beach).Scopio rules the North-east(all the water signs rules the North)and dark,somber places,places of grief and mourning(prisons,cemetaries),places near water(muddy or swampy grounds),underground places,cellars,pantries,undeveloped basements.By this,I believe the girl must have been kept hidden in a wardrobe or a pantry in the first floor of a house.As to the person's characteristics,Scorpio is the most sexual sign of all,very egnimatic,also associated with liars,outlaws and thieves,which is very apropriate for the situation.Libra shows impartial people with great communication skills,of good analysis and judgement.This combined leads me to believe the abudctor must be someone discrete,the type of person who doesn't stand out in a croud,polite yet introverted.The ruler of the radix12th is in the radix4th,showing the parent's homeland,and it's moder ruler is in the1st house too,which makes me believe the person must be of the same nationality as the parents,therefore English.Plus,the ruler of the turned7th,Venus,is peregrine yet dignified by being in it's home house and angular,showing a 'bad person' who's very able to perform their bad deeds,and this also makes me believe the crime was carefully planned,as Maddie's open enemy is the parents' open enemy as well and he receives Maddie by exaltation,showing a strong obsession fo her.The authorities seem to be quite powerless in this,because they're combust,in the unhappy6th house which,still,is Mercury's natural house.But this chart doesn't look good for Maddie,as her4th house(possible outcome)is ruled by the Moon,which leads us once again to the VOC Moon in it's fall,in the most unhappy house of all in the radix chart and in her turned8th house(death),as Draco stated before.

One of the most confusing things about this chart is that,in the radix chart,the significator for Maddie and the snatcher are one and the same(Mars),showing her in his hands,also meaning that anything we say about Maddie can also be applied to her abductor.This is also the reason why I took Pluto into consideration in my observations.Another thing that confuses me is that both Maddie and her perpetrator are in their triplicity of Pisces,shwoing a certain strenght,but it doesn't seem to me that a4year old girl would give a grown up person much trouble.

The more I look into the chart,the more it feels like Maddie could hardly stand a chance.This entire situation is very sad and there's nothing we can do but hope to God we're wrong.
__________________
I was born with the wrong sign /In the wrong house /With the wrong ascendancy

Last edited by Lissa; 05-13-2007 at 07:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 05-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hello,

Although I cannot see how this would help locate her now I wanted to just add a note about something I have just seen on TV.

It appears some feel there is confusion or something not right about certain area of the charts i.e the parents. This news item may reveal something new that could cause these horaries to be viewed in a slightly different light. I know it shouldn't but the reading of charts can be unconsciously coloured by the information already available. Also from a non- horary point of view this whole sad tale has the Saturn/Neptune opposition writ large across it. If ever there was a time for misleading authoritative information, spread of fear, rumour and conjecture, this is it.Bearing in mind then this could equally apply to what I am about to mention....

Sky News had a guest crime consultant, (he may have been a profiler type person, I'm not sure) on from London this afternoon (Sunday). He said -and I paraphrase but my delivery of his main message is accurate - ' let us not forget that there is no concrete evidence of an intruder or indeed a forced break in. In his opinion it should not be ruled out that Madeleine awoke and went looking for her parents. As they were on a self catering holiday (his words) they frequented the local supermarket most days and the police sniffer dog trail led to that supermarket. In his opinion she would have taken a route she knew and this would be one of them. He suggested that the police search all houses in the very local vicinity (apparently they have only searched empty buildings)as -and again these are all his paraphrased words - a young boy or other child could have taken pity on her and taken her in. I imagine by that he means hiding her, like in a childs game. The chances statistically of a passing paedophile are small but someone else may have picked her up (all his words).'

Now this shocked me as I had assumed from all the media reports that she was definitely taken from her room. If the father is mistaken about the time between visits she may even have got much further than the supermarket - as far as the sea and has just not been found. If we apply the Venus and indeed the 6th not to servants but to food markets..........

Now obviously the police force out there know if there was a forced break in, we just rely on news, but if there wasn't evidence of a break in, this would also explain why they didn't take it very seriously in those first hours.

I know my way around Christian Astrology etc but this is not my area. I prefer to use straigtforward symbolism. My take on it is that Venus represents Maddie as she is a Taurean. Venus when she disappeared was in Gemini. The obvious symbolism of this is her mind ws very active - not inclining to sleep. Gemini/Mercury = youthful people, twins, duality, more than one person, tricksters etc but it also applies to moving around the local vicinity.

Just thought I'd mention it. Please remember I am only conveying a message. of what I saw and heard on TV. I do not know what happened in that room that night. I would just like to see her return.
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 05-14-2007, 09:44 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

I think you're right, Futurist, that we should keep our minds very open as to what happened. It is easy (for me at least) to be cynical and assume the worst; certainly Draco's take on the event chart would bear this out, but we are still waiting to hear of any conclusive evidence of anything other than that Maddie is missing. Miracles do happen, after all, and I feel it is very worthy to explore all possibilities within the very limited circumstances under which we, the public, are able to explore them.

Best,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 05-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Asu Asu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Draco's take on this chart is commendable.

Being a beginner, and still trying to understand horary, I did read somewhere that it may unsafe to judge the chart if the moon is in late degrees especially in Gemini, Scorpio and Capricorn. I stand to be corrected but are there are other considerations that supersede this?.

On a different note looking at sabian symbols for the ascendant is 4 sag.

"A little child is learning to walk; near(by) are happy parents wise enough to refuse unnecessary assistance." How uncanny but true.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 05-14-2007, 10:20 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hi Asu,

A late degree moon in any of those signs is not a stricture against judging the chart by any means, nor does it make it 'unsafe', although it of course depends on the question. A Void of Course moon in these signs usually means that the moon *cannot* perform very well; as opposed to Lilly's note that when the Moon is in Cancer, Taurus, Pisces or Sagittarius (the signs of its domicile, exaltation, and the signs ruled by Jupiter, the Greater Benefic), it is 'not much impedyted by being void of course'. The moon is detrimented in Capricorn, in fall in Scorpio, and peregrine in Gemini, but none of these prevent the chart from being read. What they do prevent is a satisfactory outcome, usually, or simply describe the state of the question, e.g. in poor shape.

Best,
AG
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 05-15-2007, 12:34 PM
Futurist Futurist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 120
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Hello,

Well they have their man, now they just need to find Maddie.

I started this thread and asked other people to stick their neck and expertise on the line. As I have said, I did this as I did not feel confident about my own abilities. There are a million rules about peregrination, frustration, collection, refranation, etc, etc that I just do not have a good enough knowledge about to comment. However, essentially astrology is a tool of symbolism. I should have been more confident. This is what I found in a chart set for 6 May 2007 at 17.17 BST London. I will add anything that I have since surmised/concluded as a result of the current news (morning of 15th) in double parentheses. Seeing how apt this chart has proved to be, although many others will also be accurate - and I notice that many people on this thread have picked up salient points that could relate to Robert Murat and the circumstances that are now being revealed, whichever way they have approached it.

This chart/horary was set on 6th May 2007 London at 17.17

Maddie as Asc of this chart and a Taurean is Venus. Venus is in Gemini in 9th. Mercury is in 8th in Venus's sign so Mercury (ruler of 12th Captor) has Venus in his house. Mercury rules duality, two faced people, craftiness and dexterity. ((Dual nationality and in Taurus it rules Estate Agents - his old job)). Its reception with Venus in Gemini points to more than one person's involvement, tricksters and multilinguists ((turns out he's bi-lingual and been translating for the press . This shows his moving at ease between the two as Gemini also rules International Press as ruler of 9th. Interpreting and linguistics is a classic Gemini trait. Mercury in Taurus shows someone who is corpulent with thick hair. This man also has a glass eye. I know someone out there will be able to pinpoint a significator of that -maybe a fixed star)).

Anyway, Mercury is a sign of youth and craftiness. (( His reception with Venus is shown by his ability to present one charming face to the Press etc whilst harbouring another entirely int he 8th)). However he also rules the 12th and has a hidden secret. ((Robert Murat became such a subject of suspicion that the news teams dubbed it The Bob Conspiracy)) Mercury is SW in this chart Venus is SSW suggesting the location on 6th May was this direction. The co-significator of Maddie, the Moon is in the NNE house((On Google, the house Casa Liliana is NNE of the apt in Praia da Luz)).

The next significator of the abductor is always the 7th. Mars is in Pisces. He's near water, maybe a drunk or on drugs,deluded and perhaps emotionally motivated. Jupiter rules Pisces and rules 3rd. Mars is in local vicinity (3rd) ((but as Jupiter is RX he is returning to this local area or coming and going. This was borne out by his friends and family, he has only recently returned to live here. Jupiter in its own sign means this is his home.))

Mars was with Uranus on 29th April, the first day of Maddies holiday. I would say he first met her then. Uranus rules 5th of children. or as Uranus is 11th from his 7th he was involved (maybe via the internet or a group or a meeting with Maddies mother, Uranus rules Maddies natal 10th) in something that sparked this. He also had contact with Maddies Father (unwittingly on the part of her Father) as Mercury was conjunct Sun natural ruler of Maddies natal 4th. In this week Maddie disappeared, Mars was then driven by sexual or angry compulsion, Mars moving to square Venus/Pluto.

2 days later from 6 May, 8th May, Venus changes signs. This either means Maddie changes location, or appearance, or is handed to a woman. It cannot be discounted that this was the end of the road for her (as Cancer as ruler of the natural 4th) rules the end of the matter. However in this chart Moon rules 10th and is in the 3rd so she's still in local area. ((It's in Roberts turned 9th so with his in-laws in Capricorn. Ruler of turned 10th is his Mother))

Meanwhile Mercury is leaving his fixed position and moving fast. He changes signs on May 11th ((news reports say Robert Murat flew to England on this day Mercury rules 9th of long distance travel. Robert would not have been able to smuggle Maddie to the UK, so where is Maddie? Moon is in Cap, Saturn rules his Mother. In his Mothers house? Does she have another house anywhere in the area? Saturn rules structure but also concrete and I have had a very uneasy feeling about the words of Gerry McCann, 'We will leave no stone unturned in our hunt for Maddie'.)) Maddie's natal Sun has also progressed to Algol at 25 Taurus.

((What is Saturn in this chart? Saturn is in R. Murat's 4th in Leo opposite Neptune. I hope to God I am wrong but I fear she is either buried or she is in water weighted down with Concrete. I would also search building sites or his old estate agency.))

As the other significator of Maddie is the Moon, its next aspect is 12 days (that's today) to Sun. What is the Sun? This is what we need to find out because 11/12 days could just be the spotlight falls on were she is as Mars changes signs but I think this is the - well, as I am writing this the news has just said he is now an official suspect - so the spotlight is now definitely on him. I still wonder what the significance of Maddies co significator with the Sun?

The timing of Moon to the IC is 13 days today is day 12. The Moon reaching the IC means the end of the matter. The Moon's meeting with Mercury her abductor is 16 days. This is the first contact of the two. I think he will be charged on Day 16/17. If not he should be watched that day as he contacts Maddie.

As Mars the co significator of the abductor Mars changes sign today and goes into a position of strength Mars is revealed for what he is and the confusion dissappears.

Where is Maddie?. As all horaries have shown fatality, I think as Moon is in turned 9th in sign of his Mother Maddie may be in that house somewhere. If however this chart only shows the 6th May then Venus has since moved to Cancer. She's either in water, or with a woman. The absolutely best case if that she is alive and with a family.

I'm painfully aware of the nature of this post. I'm leaving myself wide open to all types of accusations.There is something grotesque about talking so flippantly about the death of a child and pointing fingers at a suspect. It crosses all taboos but I am strongly Scorpionic and I still feel that us astrologers pontificate left right and centre on lost objects, people's lives after they are dead etc but when it comes to applying our knowledge to shedding light on situations that are baffling everyone else we often hold back from showing how useful astrology can be in showing the correspondences between celestial and terrestrial events.

Obviously I still hope I am wrong but this Murat has to be the Man. He fits every single significator and the timing from this chart is exact. The Sun squares my Uranus tomorrow so that's not such a good testimony for me doing this. I could be very wrong but if Draco was prepared to put his neck on the line so must I.

If anyone can link this chart to the glass eye (accident to his eye when a child according to his fellow translator friend on TV)then that surely links him without any doubt.

**************

I have just come back to edit this tonight as I used the wrong compass direction before.

Last edited by Futurist; 05-15-2007 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 05-15-2007, 01:09 PM
Deirdre's Avatar
Deirdre Deirdre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 680
Unhappy Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Now on portuguese TV a reporter said that man has a 3 year old girl as a daughter. She has the same name as Madeleine and it´s very similar to her in appearance...it has to be him i think...his wife and daughter are living in England and he´s living here...so..maybe he molested his own daughter who knows!!! and now he comited this crime almost sure of it !! He´s a sick perversed man and i wish the justice is made
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 05-15-2007, 01:15 PM
Deirdre's Avatar
Deirdre Deirdre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 680
Re: Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Here iit is from
http://www.anorak.co.uk/news/tabloids/173352.html

"Robert Murat

After the speculation the paper delivers a welter of facts. Robert Murat lives with his mum. Robert Murat is in his 30s. Robert Murat lives with his mother in a villa 150 yards from the apartment where Madeleine McCann was snatched.

The Sun (“MADDIE: BRIT QUIZZED”) says Murat lives 100 yards from that McCann apartment. Like the Mirror, the Sun produces a front-page picture of “one-eyed Murat”. The Mail hears that Murat lost his eye in a BMX accident when he was a boy. The Mail says Murat lives 80 yards from Madeleine's holiday apartment.

Murat is “stocky”. He offered to help the police hunt as a “translator”. He lives in Casa Liliana, with his mum Jenny."

You are right! It´s him. He has a glass eye!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
find, madeleine, missing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Missing Person 'Last Seen' Chart: Steven Cook. Draco Electional and Event Astrology 1 04-01-2011 05:15 PM
Missing Receipt. Draco Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people 2 11-28-2006 04:17 PM
when will i find the one and fall in love? anna122 Horary Questions on Relational Issues 0 11-10-2006 02:37 PM
when will i find the one and fall in love? anna122 Relational Astrology 2 11-10-2006 02:30 PM
Am I going to find out what happened to Isaaco ... ? Summery Joy Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people 2 11-14-2005 02:05 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.