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  #26  
Unread 11-13-2011, 04:39 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

Yeah astrologer50, I don't know why I can't understand what it means... what makes mars what it is or the other planets, what is the root of this theory?

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  #27  
Unread 11-13-2011, 04:42 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Originally Posted by JerryRR View Post
The Maya associated Venus with War,they used Venus for their coronations and wars.Wars were planned when Venus rose.
I think it may have been Gauquelin that found more Generals were born under Libra.
I recommend "The Inner Planets-Building Blocks of Personal Reality."by Green and Sasportas.
Interesting thread.

J.R.
Super cool!!!!!! Thanks. I REad I forget which army, ancient Greece or Rome!??!! They used to put war troops together based on their astrological comparability. This was determined by their rising signs (which was considered your most important or true sign) together. Does anyone remember this?
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Unread 11-13-2011, 04:49 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

In the case of Mars and Saturn, many astrologers seem to suggest that they are malefic. I disagree. They are vital aspects of the psyche that must be expressed to maintain equilibrium. Furthermore, no matter how they relate to the other planets (aspects), they must maintain the core essence of their being--their purpose, if you will. They must uphold their part in the balancing out of your personality. For one will be apathetic without the drive of Mars and undisciplined without the structure of Saturn. Even where soft aspects are concerned, they still carry out their roles. It is up to the individual to decide whether or not they will express them in positive or negative ways. And an individual who represses or refuses to acknowledge the true natures of Mars and Saturn will be unbalanced and weak.[/QUOTE]

I was just thinking about my Venus square Saturn today in regrades to my relationships. I credit it with my intense focus on honesty, fidelity and almost business like mentality with maters of the heart. I don't mess around, there is no greater pain than hurting the ones you love. These are the morals and values I have learnt due to relationships, with the energy of this aspect working within the dynamic. I have had to seriously learn empathy and fidelity through pain. This is also one of my greatest strengths, I can be pretty flaky but not when it comes to love or close relationships, that is all serious stuff I will be there 100%. It took a lot of struggles to assimilate the harshness of this aspect and ingrain it into my mental workings, the end resulting in becoming more awakened and at peace with this part of myself. It went from so intense and serious to an almost Jupiter quality of expansion and luck or happy go lucky mentality.

Last edited by Love2Know; 11-13-2011 at 04:56 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 11-13-2011, 04:56 PM
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OP parallels of declination

RIR,

As I suspected mercury/mars but as it turns out mercury/ pluto are contra parallel which acts like an opposition.... so this strenthens the retro motion and adds an ability to dig and delve, researching but also *capable* of verbal lacerations/acid tongue on occasion...

Quote:
shows mental tension. You may become the repository of confidential information and problems of a personal nature by persons with whom you associate. This is a difficult aspect because you have a tendency toward harsh and abrupt speech. When challenged, you become emotionally and intellectually arrogant, as if your credibility is being questioned. You are impatient with yourself and others, demanding that projects get done immediately.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/mercuryaspects.html#meopl
Quote:
perceptive and you dig so deep for answers that you can be your own worst enemy. As a result, you might find ulterior motives or dark intent where there is none, and your suspicious, provocative attitude can cause some problems in your personal life, particularly if it reaches the level of paranoia. Not many people enjoy being second-guessed all the time, yet that is something that you are inclined to do, and a tendency that should be kept in check in your dealings with others.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/m...toaspects.html
So although mercury doesn't have an aspect to mars natally or pluto natally, declinations adds another layer.

Natal mars is apex for common Tsquare, a very tight square to moon, emotionally very assertive (bossy mother)

saturn, uranus and neptune are ALL contra parallel MC which acts like an opposition
Venus/chiron are parallel which acts like a conjuction
vertex/venus are contra parallel

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Astrologer50 disagreed with a lot of my ideas of what Mars represents. She stated that aggression and the other seemingly “negative” attributes were only products of squares and other hard aspects to Mars. She believes that under the influence of soft aspects, Mars emits energy in a more harmonious fashion


and I still stand by this, but in our 'other thead' we were talking specifically mars sextile mercury. so the reason I have continued mercury/mars expressions was pure curiosity to see how your mercury functioned, hence the attached, parallels....

T Pluto is currently conj natal uranus, although outer generational planets may well be having an effect on communications as these outer form nice trines to mercury retro...
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Last edited by astrologer50; 11-13-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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  #30  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:06 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

Thanks for this discussion, interesting! I have been observing a lot of what I'd call mars energy in my two young sons. Apperantly, boys get their first surge of testosterone around age 4. You can actually see them change from sweet, passive children to being obsessed with graphic and gorey talk and fighting in general. Around this age they also become aware for the first time that they are separate from their mothers, and they must learn to defend themselves in some ways. Sometimes it seems as if their entire psychology is engaged in this quest for dominance and autonomy. This is a really important (although sometimes alarming) phase pf development. I see parents who are horrified by it and won't allow their boys to talk out and work out their fears and issues around these concepts (obviously I'm not suggesting they let their kids be violent or even play with fake weapons) but to honor their developmental need to work out their mars is VERY important I would think, in order to allow mars to function well in adulthood.
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  #31  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

Honestly, this sounds more like me than my brother as children. Just for the record a lot of biology is 'Sexed' and 'sexist'.
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  #32  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:11 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Originally Posted by twelthnight View Post
Thanks for this discussion, interesting! I have been observing a lot of what I'd call mars energy in my two young sons. Apperantly, boys get their first surge of testosterone around age 4. You can actually see them change from sweet, passive children to being obsessed with graphic and gorey talk and fighting in general. Around this age they also become aware for the first time that they are separate from their mothers, and they must learn to defend themselves in some ways. Sometimes it seems as if their entire psychology is engaged in this quest for dominance and autonomy. This is a really important (although sometimes alarming) phase pf development. I see parents who are horrified by it and won't allow their boys to talk out and work out their fears and issues around these concepts (obviously I'm not suggesting they let their kids be violent or even play with fake weapons) but to honor their developmental need to work out their mars is VERY important I would think, in order to allow mars to function well in adulthood.
Very interesting. I think it's also interesting to note that the basis for the thread is the difference in opinion between a male and a female.
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  #33  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:16 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Honestly, this sounds more like me than my brother as children. Just for the record a lot of biology is 'Sexed' and 'sexist'.
Gawd, I was just gonna put in a disclaimer: I only have boys, that is all I know, please don't be offended if this comes off as sexist, but from the dozens and dozens of mothers I've talked to, this testosterone surge is REAL.
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  #34  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:20 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

I'm not offended, more interested. I am not a doctor all I know is sociology and how the art of medicine with social perception has been coupled and personified. Sorry, if I seemed to be offended or such! I was more enthusiastic..... Yes people have coupled testosterone with male attributes no argument with that here. Hey maybe I am full of testosterone myself lol!
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  #35  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:22 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

I see this post has taken off................. (very mars)

my progressed libran mars is in scorpio not sure when then happened. no other planets in scorpio. placed in the 12th house. didnt express my anger to my parents when younger but did to my siblings! wild fighting!

mainly I express my anger through verbal stuff. and yes you have to check the other part of a chart to see how it manifests. have got better at handling it as I have got older though. thankfully.

I also have read about that librans are often found in the governments of those who go to war. ie Margaret Thatcher and Falklands war. now David Cameron - its like the iron fist behind the velvet glove.

I have met many very fiesty mars in pisces too! So again not playing too type.

anger is very creative and a normal ok human emotion and that is where i think the confusion is. it does need an outlet.

i have a saturn transit to my mars coming up in my 12th. (Im considering jumping to whole house as then it will be in my first house) but already I see this coming out via communication and verbally. So the frustration/anger I feel about previous events is being expressed in that way. lots of complaint letters and very blunt (well thought) out arguments!!!! I present a very forceful argument and it takes people by surprise a lot of the time.
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  #36  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:26 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

My bosses and main manager are all libras, my gosh they do not mess around, if they get pissed they will let you know. My dad and my brother as well both libras but my bro is really mellowed out his anger is more explosive the rest are like constantly easily irritated. If I stay calm they get mad at me if I just get irritated with them it defuses them a bit. Kinda weird for what I know from libra.
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  #37  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:27 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
I'm not offended, more interested. I am not a doctor all I know is sociology and how the art of medicine with social perception has been coupled and personified. Sorry, if I seemed to be offended or such! I was more enthusiastic..... Yes people have coupled testosterone with male attributes no argument with that here. Hey maybe I am full of testosterone myself lol!
Haha...see mars transiting Virgo now is just about to enter my first house and conjunct my chart ruler and sun...now my mars is in cancer, so my red flags for mars out of wack is getting DEFENSIVE. I really hope I don't spend the next 9 months of mars in virgo defending myself against nothing....not that I thought you were offended L2K, it's just hard to talk about what really goes on with young children without sounding like the biggest sexist ever. You have a lot of Leo (masculine) energy and you may well have high testosterone. Fascinating stuff!
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  #38  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:41 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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*Strokes her mustache and nods
I have been so out of wack this week, well more than normal. I realized I just need several martinis and to hang out with friends. I don't know what transit I could attribute that too... a lazy one cuz when I go lazy I go crazy- Saturn in the 4th?
Lol!
Hope you get those martinis, darling...btw, just planning my thanksgiving menu...clementine champagne martinis and kir royal. OMG I'm in heaven planning menus, that's what my mars in cancer loves best. Don't mind me, I'll just wait out my mars storm in the kitchen!
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  #39  
Unread 11-13-2011, 05:46 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Hahah sounds like a delicious plan, Yeah I had some crazy martinis last night an amazing pear one and one with amaretto and other stuff in it...... mellowed me right out haha It was suppose to be a girls night but then my bf showed up oh well he wouldnt even drink a martini he said it's for women, James Bond Hello! anyways getting off track nice, and good luck with the dinner are you cooking it all yourself?!?!
You bet! It usually takes me three days of prep and cooking for a big holiday meal. It is my idea of fun. Sorry, OP, we are derailing!
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  #40  
Unread 11-13-2011, 06:01 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

This is just to give you some different perspective.

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Originally Posted by RaptInReverie View Post

For starters, my background in occult studies encompasses planetary magick, and my views of the planets are heavily influenced by the ancient archetypes of the seven classical “planets“: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn (Of course the Sun and the Moon are not technically planets).
As far as Astrology is concerned, Sun and Moon are planet. They go around Earth (basically individuals, such as me, you).

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Originally Posted by RaptInReverie View Post

In regards to the planet Mars, I have come to the conclusion that its true attributes are wrongfully considered by many to be “negative”, so astrologers water them down to make them more palatable for their querents. But this misunderstanding arises only when one fails to realize the bigger picture. No planets are ‘good” or “bad”. They all balance each other out, creating an equilibrium in the personality.

Mars represents drive, action, energy, passion, courage, force, aggression, survival, desire, competition, pursuit, ambition, strength, courage, anger, domination, ruthlessness, combativeness, physicality, and human nature (as in fight or flight). I firmly hold to these archetypes because they were gathered from my own meditation on the Martian energy and not from a book by another astrologer.

One spur of Mars can have severe damage, for example saying Talak, Talak, Talak in Islam to spouse. They are unrepairable damage.

On guy in India killed his two sons by shooting in head, just because he was not able to sleep.

Mars is like pulling trigger.

In Indian Astrology, for marriages it's placement is very important. Mars in 1st, 4th, 7th, 8th and 12th are called Manglik. Generally people avoid marriage between Manglik and non-Manglik. Why, a Manglik with Mars in 7th can slap and abuse spouse - Even if the trigger is once in life time. Same thing may not be important, where slapping or abusing or divorcing each other is common. You can guess about other houses, how Mars can influence in marriage life. Where Mars in welcome: in 10th, in 3rd, in 11th, in 6th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptInReverie View Post

She stated that aggression and the other seemingly “negative” attributes were only products of squares and other hard aspects to Mars. She believes that under the influence of soft aspects, Mars emits energy in a more harmonious fashion.
In example above, Mars in 7th with good aspect to other means partner does not care about being abused or beaten. OR ...

In Indian Astrology Manglik to Manglik match means both can take fight. For example both having Mars in 7th - both can't suppress each other.
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  #41  
Unread 11-13-2011, 06:24 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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You bet! It usually takes me three days of prep and cooking for a big holiday meal. It is my idea of fun. Sorry, OP, we are derailing!
Probably a way to work out mars energy anyhow... Slicing, mashing, cutting, chopping, mixing, heating...
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  #42  
Unread 11-13-2011, 06:36 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Probably a way to work out mars energy anyhow... Slicing, mashing, cutting, chopping, mixing, heating...
I absolutely agree. I think cooking is VERY theraputic for mars in cancer. The boiling pots, simmering sauces, the chop, chop! Makes me feel super happy. If I am angry, I will cook...but I don't like to serve it to anyone, doesn't seem right to serve an angry dish.
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  #43  
Unread 11-13-2011, 07:02 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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You sound like an awesome person to be around mmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm. Heh I can cook to but it's fast and furious and chaotic, basically I am compared to a mad scientist. Do you do desserts? Ok sorry this is my gluttony kicking in.
You know my bf just melts when I cook for him...it's an awesome thing to be able to make someone sublimely happy with food. I am a total feeder, but I don't do desserts very often (and I'm okay at them but not great) no one in my family has much of a sweet tooth....but I did just make homeade chocolate peppermint truffles with my boys cos they love mint. Also making a fresh fig and frangipanie tart for thanksgiving...now dough of any type I can really get into...beautiful stuff! Pastry dough is excellent fun b/c it's such a science. All French cooking rules and rocks my world!

Geeking out on food...
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  #44  
Unread 11-13-2011, 07:12 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

My fault sorry I will delete my posts!
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  #45  
Unread 11-13-2011, 07:50 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

glad you have attempted to move away from the rather contentious thread I was previously following...I have Mars in Capricorn in opposition to Sun/Jupiter conjunct in Cancer, crossing the 2nd/8th axis...it is also the tip of a kite configuration...what have I learned?

In youth I was extremely sensitive and emotional and life taught me that I had to learn to control and direct my energies, rather than being a door-mat for others...Mars opp Sun: conflicts with males attempting to dominate; financial upsets; Mars/Jupiter: learning to reign in my familial attachments causing distress;
questioning religious organizations and seeking after divine understanding

Jupiter/Sun conjunct: the luck of a small inheritance but more importantly significant spurt of development after the loss of my parents... I was changed psychologically ...

As a water dominant person I needed this Mars in Capricorn to teach me about endurance, patience, organization and the law of cause and effect...
I am no master of industry nor am I interested in business, yet I intuit on a deeper level [Scorpio rising, pluto in the 10th] that the true 'spiritual' archetype represents 'the goat climbing the mountains in search of wisdom and fulfillment...there are many challenges to face on the long climb upwards...
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Last edited by kimbermoon; 11-13-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  #46  
Unread 11-13-2011, 08:47 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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My fault sorry I will delete my posts!
This thread is open to any and all conversation.
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, PIS MOON,VIR ASC
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  #47  
Unread 11-13-2011, 09:01 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Originally Posted by RaptInReverie View Post
Astrologer50,

First, I want to make it clear that your quotes from other astrologers aren’t proving anything to anyone. An astrologer should be able to formulate his/her own opinion when interpreting charts.[that's being very selective,and only per chance, readidng what you want to read here??] Here is where you and I differ. My methods are my own.[so are mine try re reading, the links I post are educational for people wanting to learn astrology by well known published authors or websites!!!] I primarily depend upon my own discernment when analyzing a chart.

Now, my Mercury, Mars, and Pluto do NOT have an oppositional relationship,[your parallels say diffferent] despite what you’ve stated above. Mercury and Pluto are both co-rulers of my 3rd house and they are sextile; Mercury is lord of my 9th house (where Mars is located); Mars and Pluto are both co-rulers of my 8th house. This is NOT an oppositional relationship. In fact, contrarily, they are very connected, and this adds power to the three placements.

You are reading what you want into my chart, and it is obvious.[NOPE I'm reading your *declinations* do you know what they are?] You want to prove that an aggressive Mars is the product of a hard aspect, and this is not true. Mars is aggressive by nature, whether it is aspected beneficially, malevolently, or not at all. You are sugarcoating the function of Mars, and you are using other astrologer’s words to prove your point (which, by the way, is impossible because most astrologers have their own method of interpretation).
Are you per chance, only reading what you selective want to read?

Quote:
As I suspected mercury/mars but as it turns out mercury/ pluto are contra parallel which acts like an opposition.... so this strenthens the retro motion and adds an ability to dig and delve, researching but also *capable* of verbal lacerations/acid tongue on occasion...
obviously YOU dont' understand declinations/parallels, may I suggest some research?

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This thread is open to any and all conversation.
only providing it's astrologically based and cooking tips

forum rules

Quote:
Off-topic and personal messages are permitted as long as they are limited and do not turn the attention from the astrological topic discussed.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/faq.php

Last edited by astrologer50; 11-13-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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  #48  
Unread 11-13-2011, 09:08 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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Astrologer50,
You are reading what you want into my chart, and it is obvious. You want to prove that an aggressive Mars is the product of a hard aspect, and this is not true. Mars is aggressive by nature, whether it is aspected beneficially, malevolently, or not at all. You are sugarcoating the function of Mars, and you are using other astrologerís words to prove your point (which, by the way, is impossible because most astrologers have their own method of interpretation).
I would offer that Mars in Cancer would not be highly aggressive without some heavy other aspects...here we go again...we are not here to prove something to others...we are here to coach them into gaining their own wisdom of how certain factors of the chart can play out...consider this...with respect, when you are accessing astrology websites that you include in your personal lists of resources, is this not the same thing...encouraging the use of other astrologer's word combinations? contradiction?

again you are oozing judgment by saying: 'you are sugar-coating the function of Mars'...this is only the way you see it.
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  #49  
Unread 11-13-2011, 09:11 PM
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

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In the case of Mars and Saturn, many astrologers seem to suggest that they are malefic. I disagree. They are vital aspects of the psyche that must be expressed to maintain equilibrium. Furthermore, no matter how they relate to the other planets (aspects), they must maintain the core essence of their being--their purpose, if you will. They must uphold their part in the balancing out of your personality. For one will be apathetic without the drive of Mars and undisciplined without the structure of Saturn. Even where soft aspects are concerned, they still carry out their roles. It is up to the individual to decide whether or not they will express them in positive or negative ways. And an individual who represses or refuses to acknowledge the true natures of Mars and Saturn will be unbalanced and weak.
Still reading responses on this page, but wanted to say this quickly. I have both Mars and Saturn conjunct in my 1st, and I'm rather thankful for these 2 "Malefics", as they serve my introverted nature well. They basically project masculinity and cold seriousness that makes most people keep their distance, which I want! Saturn in 1st shows a lot of responsibility, from childhood, and as ruler of time, he doesn't have time for small talk.

Now, as to those planets being called "malefics", I think that it's used as a term relative to other planets, especially Venus and Jupiter. It really depends on what angle the astrologer is being given. If one comes to them for a reading, say on synastry for marriage, or expecting money soon, Mars and Saturn in the picture don't bode well.

However, Mars could be good in providing toughness to weather a storm, and in legal cases, having Saturn on your side can sometimes be more beneficial than Jupiter! Saturn's rewards tend to be more long-lasting, and sometimes Jupiter's bubble can burst pretty quickly. Jupiter is kind of like that million-dollar lottery ticket, but here comes "malefic" Saturn taking half for taxes! But Saturn is that blessing in disguise, bc if you see the history of lottery winners, that free money ends up being a curse, and they're broke, or dead in no time.

Jupiter's blessings can sometimes be a curse. An "all you can eat buffet" is the last thing a person trying to lose weight needs, although in the moment it may seem great. So, as said above it is all a matter of perspective. But in general, if you want to look for good news, you would look to Jupiter first. Relative to Saturn, Jupiter's the good guy. But they also are like good cop, bad cop, they work together. Sometimes the good cop is trying to trick you.

I've also had some disagreements with astrologer50, RIR. Some ppl just like to argue. My Mars is in Leo, squaring Mercury and Uranus, so that double fire can be triggered pretty quickly and intensely, and it comes out vocally, and in public. Mars in Leo likes to make a show with their fights. I can really make a scene when I want to, even with Saturn conjuncting my Mars to cool him off.

I would say that Mars all by himself, that planetary energy all alone, is the energy of the male, the warrior, yes. The God of War, "Mars", is by definition, far from being the "nice guy". The aspects and signs he's in in charts will determine just how "bad" he will be. But in a dog eat dog, upside-down world, I agree, "bad" is good. So dont trip too much off classical defintions of malefic and benefic. But Mars is definitely the symbol of the bad boy. It's a bit aggravating that someone would argue about something so self-evident.

Last edited by divine g; 11-13-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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  #50  
Unread 11-13-2011, 09:11 PM
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RaptInReverie RaptInReverie is offline
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Re: Mars, the Bringer of War: What It Means In Your Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbermoon View Post
again you are oozing judgment by saying: 'you are sugar-coating the function of Mars'...this is only the way you see it.
Because it's MY chart
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rev∑er∑ie [rev-uh-ree]
noun
1. an act or state of absent-minded daydreaming
2. a piece of instrumental music suggestive of a daydream
3. archaic. a fanciful or visionary notion; daydream


VIR SUN
, PIS MOON,VIR ASC

Last edited by RaptInReverie; 11-13-2011 at 09:15 PM.
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